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On July 25 2018 07:55 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2018 07:33 xdthreat wrote:
I see some of the WoW guys are active in this thread. With the changes to WoW engine (Dx12) does the overall opinion that ST performance in CPU and better Nvidia performance still true? Few people have performed benchmarks and i can't myself because i don't own any kind of modern AMD GPU. dx11 is still faster than dx12 on Nvidia. dx12 outperforms dx11 on AMD, but AMD's dx11 was considerably behind Nvidia's dx11. The AMD dx12 vs Nvidia dx11 needs further benchmarking which requires win10 and a decent GPU from both vendors. --- The game is still highly reliant on CPU ST performance, now more than ever. 8.0 has removed some features that improved performance (such as blob shadows and exclusive fullscreen mode) while the new zones have more objects and detail than ever before; There's also a lot of water all over (with Boralus being surrounded by it) which is especially taxing on the engine. Performance has dropped, not risen; at least on every config i've been able to test. Overall when making the jump from 7.3.5 to 8.0 i saw a performance loss of 1.15x on one of my older cataclysm benchmarks (1.4x if setting object view distance back to about the same as legion) for reasons that i can't adequately explain. There was also an increase of input lag of 1 frame because of the removal of fullscreen mode. With dx12 there may be non-negligable core scaling beyond 4c4t but i wouldn't expect it to extend beyond 6c6t / 4c8t. The game may benefit from additional L3 cache (Intel's recent mainstream CPU's have 2MB of L3 cache per core, but any core can access all of the L3 cache at full performance) so a 6 core CPU has 50% more available L3 cache than a quad core and that may show performance gains on the 6 core CPU over a 4 core CPU which are not actually due to core scaling (as proven by disabling cores on the 6C and maintaining the elevated performance). Need more investigation on if that's a significant performance change or relatively negligible.
Thanks Cyro,
Looks like I'll try to squeeze another expansion out of my 2500k/970. Kind of looking for a reason to go Ryzen (pretending I use VMware enough to justify...) but I don't want to pay for ram/cpu/mobo and not have performance gains in my games.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On July 25 2018 08:16 xdthreat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2018 07:55 Cyro wrote:On July 25 2018 07:33 xdthreat wrote:
I see some of the WoW guys are active in this thread. With the changes to WoW engine (Dx12) does the overall opinion that ST performance in CPU and better Nvidia performance still true? Few people have performed benchmarks and i can't myself because i don't own any kind of modern AMD GPU. dx11 is still faster than dx12 on Nvidia. dx12 outperforms dx11 on AMD, but AMD's dx11 was considerably behind Nvidia's dx11. The AMD dx12 vs Nvidia dx11 needs further benchmarking which requires win10 and a decent GPU from both vendors. --- The game is still highly reliant on CPU ST performance, now more than ever. 8.0 has removed some features that improved performance (such as blob shadows and exclusive fullscreen mode) while the new zones have more objects and detail than ever before; There's also a lot of water all over (with Boralus being surrounded by it) which is especially taxing on the engine. Performance has dropped, not risen; at least on every config i've been able to test. Overall when making the jump from 7.3.5 to 8.0 i saw a performance loss of 1.15x on one of my older cataclysm benchmarks (1.4x if setting object view distance back to about the same as legion) for reasons that i can't adequately explain. There was also an increase of input lag of 1 frame because of the removal of fullscreen mode. With dx12 there may be non-negligable core scaling beyond 4c4t but i wouldn't expect it to extend beyond 6c6t / 4c8t. The game may benefit from additional L3 cache (Intel's recent mainstream CPU's have 2MB of L3 cache per core, but any core can access all of the L3 cache at full performance) so a 6 core CPU has 50% more available L3 cache than a quad core and that may show performance gains on the 6 core CPU over a 4 core CPU which are not actually due to core scaling (as proven by disabling cores on the 6C and maintaining the elevated performance). Need more investigation on if that's a significant performance change or relatively negligible. Thanks Cyro, Looks like I'll try to squeeze another expansion out of my 2500k/970. Kind of looking for a reason to go Ryzen (pretending I use VMware enough to justify...) but I don't want to pay for ram/cpu/mobo and not have performance gains in my games.
Rumored 8-core (16MB L3) soldered, meltdown+spectre mitigated coffee lake to be released this quarter would be an excellent CPU for WoW and a lot faster than a 2500k, i plan to get one if that's at all true although Icelake (2h 2019??) sounds like a further step forwards.
A 6c6t version of similar would get almost all of the way there if pricing is an issue & MT performance isn't a high priority.
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On July 25 2018 08:07 ProtossGG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2018 08:02 Cyro wrote:On July 25 2018 07:50 ProtossGG wrote:Guys, sorry, I've been posting a lot here as I finalize my build. I plan to stream 1080 @ 60fps. It's just SC remastered which as we all know doesn't require anything great. I don't even keep on all the fancy graphics either. But from a streaming perspective, I should be more than OK with a 1080 Ti + i7 8700 + 16 GB RAM ... Can I get something a little lesser than 1080 Ti even and be ok for my needs? I don't particularly do anything else - though I have a dual monitor set up which I use for work (leveraging a KVM switch to go back and forth from my desktop to work laptop). Thinking to go to 3 monitors with this new rig. Though it looks like a 1080 Ti doens't have HDMI + DVI port, it has HDMI and display mini ports. My KVM switch is all DVI (since its a dual kvm switch), I've even had to use an HDMI to DVI converter to get that whole thing set up. Rather get a card that has an HDMI and DVI port in it so it's just plug and play with my current cables.... Other than that, basic web browsing, etc. I don't play any other games and probably will never plan to. I'm a Brood War only kind of guy  Even what I've stated is probably overkill for my purposes, but rather just get something that's going to be great for the next 7+ years and not look back. Thanks. I don't see any reason to get a 1080ti instead of e.g. a 1050ti The non-reference graphics card models can decide on their own IO, i'd imagine that plenty can take dvi-d and hdmi (although dvi-analog support has been largely dropped with this gen) I don't know ... it's only 4gb. I see it comes with HDMI and DVI that I need. Obviously 4gb is more than good enough for what I need to do. Think it'll stream 1080 @ 60fps smoothly? This could be an option too then I guess: GeForce Zotac GTX 1080 Mini. Ever heard of that one? It has both ports. 1070 also seems to have both ports too.
As far as i've heard SC:Remastered can run with 1GB of VRAM with no benefit from more than 3GB
A 1050/1050ti can handle 1080p60 live encoding with NVENC and minimal game performance hit just as a 1080ti can; you'd probably be doing CPU encoding on your 8700 though. A 1080ti would be a very expensive paperweight if it's not actually utilized for something that a 1050ti couldn't handle equally well.
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On July 25 2018 08:26 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2018 08:07 ProtossGG wrote:On July 25 2018 08:02 Cyro wrote:On July 25 2018 07:50 ProtossGG wrote:Guys, sorry, I've been posting a lot here as I finalize my build. I plan to stream 1080 @ 60fps. It's just SC remastered which as we all know doesn't require anything great. I don't even keep on all the fancy graphics either. But from a streaming perspective, I should be more than OK with a 1080 Ti + i7 8700 + 16 GB RAM ... Can I get something a little lesser than 1080 Ti even and be ok for my needs? I don't particularly do anything else - though I have a dual monitor set up which I use for work (leveraging a KVM switch to go back and forth from my desktop to work laptop). Thinking to go to 3 monitors with this new rig. Though it looks like a 1080 Ti doens't have HDMI + DVI port, it has HDMI and display mini ports. My KVM switch is all DVI (since its a dual kvm switch), I've even had to use an HDMI to DVI converter to get that whole thing set up. Rather get a card that has an HDMI and DVI port in it so it's just plug and play with my current cables.... Other than that, basic web browsing, etc. I don't play any other games and probably will never plan to. I'm a Brood War only kind of guy Even what I've stated is probably overkill for my purposes, but rather just get something that's going to be great for the next 7+ years and not look back. Thanks. I don't see any reason to get a 1080ti instead of e.g. a 1050ti The non-reference graphics card models can decide on their own IO, i'd imagine that plenty can take dvi-d and hdmi (although dvi-analog support has been largely dropped with this gen) I don't know ... it's only 4gb. I see it comes with HDMI and DVI that I need. Obviously 4gb is more than good enough for what I need to do. Think it'll stream 1080 @ 60fps smoothly? This could be an option too then I guess: GeForce Zotac GTX 1080 Mini. Ever heard of that one? It has both ports. 1070 also seems to have both ports too. As far as i've heard SC:Remastered can run with 1GB of VRAM with no benefit from more than 3GB A 1050/1050ti can handle 1080p60 live encoding with NVENC and minimal game performance hit just as a 1080ti can; you'd probably be doing CPU encoding on your 8700 though. A 1080ti would be a very expensive paperweight if it's not actually utilized for something that a 1050ti couldn't handle equally well.
Thanks. That's logical. Is 460W PSU good enough you think?
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On July 25 2018 08:34 ProtossGG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2018 08:26 Cyro wrote:On July 25 2018 08:07 ProtossGG wrote:On July 25 2018 08:02 Cyro wrote:On July 25 2018 07:50 ProtossGG wrote:Guys, sorry, I've been posting a lot here as I finalize my build. I plan to stream 1080 @ 60fps. It's just SC remastered which as we all know doesn't require anything great. I don't even keep on all the fancy graphics either. But from a streaming perspective, I should be more than OK with a 1080 Ti + i7 8700 + 16 GB RAM ... Can I get something a little lesser than 1080 Ti even and be ok for my needs? I don't particularly do anything else - though I have a dual monitor set up which I use for work (leveraging a KVM switch to go back and forth from my desktop to work laptop). Thinking to go to 3 monitors with this new rig. Though it looks like a 1080 Ti doens't have HDMI + DVI port, it has HDMI and display mini ports. My KVM switch is all DVI (since its a dual kvm switch), I've even had to use an HDMI to DVI converter to get that whole thing set up. Rather get a card that has an HDMI and DVI port in it so it's just plug and play with my current cables.... Other than that, basic web browsing, etc. I don't play any other games and probably will never plan to. I'm a Brood War only kind of guy Even what I've stated is probably overkill for my purposes, but rather just get something that's going to be great for the next 7+ years and not look back. Thanks. I don't see any reason to get a 1080ti instead of e.g. a 1050ti The non-reference graphics card models can decide on their own IO, i'd imagine that plenty can take dvi-d and hdmi (although dvi-analog support has been largely dropped with this gen) I don't know ... it's only 4gb. I see it comes with HDMI and DVI that I need. Obviously 4gb is more than good enough for what I need to do. Think it'll stream 1080 @ 60fps smoothly? This could be an option too then I guess: GeForce Zotac GTX 1080 Mini. Ever heard of that one? It has both ports. 1070 also seems to have both ports too. As far as i've heard SC:Remastered can run with 1GB of VRAM with no benefit from more than 3GB A 1050/1050ti can handle 1080p60 live encoding with NVENC and minimal game performance hit just as a 1080ti can; you'd probably be doing CPU encoding on your 8700 though. A 1080ti would be a very expensive paperweight if it's not actually utilized for something that a 1050ti couldn't handle equally well. Thanks. That's logical. Is 460W PSU good enough you think?
As long as it's decent quality ;D
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Hi all, looking to get a computer, as a birthday present, under ~$400 and buying starcraft remastered after. Anyone knowledge able about what brand to choose (HP, Dell, Asus, other) or have a foolproof product i absolutely need? Should be windows10 and any other sc-remastered system requirements. gonna use it primarily for gameing. also maybe a good mouse or keyboard or if it comes in a bundle that would be good.
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I am pretty sure that sc-remastered doesn't require much in terms of requirements. Even a 200 USD laptop with the basic integrated graphics card should be enough.
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On July 25 2018 08:34 ProtossGG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2018 08:26 Cyro wrote:On July 25 2018 08:07 ProtossGG wrote:On July 25 2018 08:02 Cyro wrote:On July 25 2018 07:50 ProtossGG wrote:Guys, sorry, I've been posting a lot here as I finalize my build. I plan to stream 1080 @ 60fps. It's just SC remastered which as we all know doesn't require anything great. I don't even keep on all the fancy graphics either. But from a streaming perspective, I should be more than OK with a 1080 Ti + i7 8700 + 16 GB RAM ... Can I get something a little lesser than 1080 Ti even and be ok for my needs? I don't particularly do anything else - though I have a dual monitor set up which I use for work (leveraging a KVM switch to go back and forth from my desktop to work laptop). Thinking to go to 3 monitors with this new rig. Though it looks like a 1080 Ti doens't have HDMI + DVI port, it has HDMI and display mini ports. My KVM switch is all DVI (since its a dual kvm switch), I've even had to use an HDMI to DVI converter to get that whole thing set up. Rather get a card that has an HDMI and DVI port in it so it's just plug and play with my current cables.... Other than that, basic web browsing, etc. I don't play any other games and probably will never plan to. I'm a Brood War only kind of guy Even what I've stated is probably overkill for my purposes, but rather just get something that's going to be great for the next 7+ years and not look back. Thanks. I don't see any reason to get a 1080ti instead of e.g. a 1050ti The non-reference graphics card models can decide on their own IO, i'd imagine that plenty can take dvi-d and hdmi (although dvi-analog support has been largely dropped with this gen) I don't know ... it's only 4gb. I see it comes with HDMI and DVI that I need. Obviously 4gb is more than good enough for what I need to do. Think it'll stream 1080 @ 60fps smoothly? This could be an option too then I guess: GeForce Zotac GTX 1080 Mini. Ever heard of that one? It has both ports. 1070 also seems to have both ports too. As far as i've heard SC:Remastered can run with 1GB of VRAM with no benefit from more than 3GB A 1050/1050ti can handle 1080p60 live encoding with NVENC and minimal game performance hit just as a 1080ti can; you'd probably be doing CPU encoding on your 8700 though. A 1080ti would be a very expensive paperweight if it's not actually utilized for something that a 1050ti couldn't handle equally well. Thanks. That's logical. Is 460W PSU good enough you think?
The biggest 1080 TI's use ~280W and an 8700K at 5ghz on an AVX torture test uses as much as 170W, but on regular (realistic) loads <100W. Other components use a couple of watts each. The 1050 TI uses ~80W.
There are a number of sites like TomsHardware that test actual power consumption for the popular parts for at least the last several years.
I wouldn't advise running your PSU at full load all the time, but depending on the quality of parts many PSUs can handle briefly spiking above their advertised max load. My preference is to stay under 80% of the max load, but they're generally considered safe above that. Also have to keep in mind that the maximum possible draw of your PC is usually much higher than the actual consistent "heavy load." You can draw a lot more power while trying to run a torture test on CPU + GPU than you'd ever draw gaming even at 100% usage. It's also very uncommon for both CPU and GPU to be simultaenously maxed out while gaming.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Yeah, i run an OC'd 1080ti and 8700k on a 550w unit and i've never been able to trip overcurrent protection or anything. A stock CPU and 1050ti would peak at like half load on a 460w unit
1080ti is limited at stock to 250w but with OC it can fairly easily hit 300. I keep mine limited at 300 usually because the power efficiency gets exponentially worse as you increase the maximum power. Going from 300w to 330w is like +10% power for +2% performance at a time where the card and case is nontrivial to cool because 300w is pretty monstrous already.
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I guess starting from Intel's 9th generation, i7 users will have to switch to i9. Why? They could drop hyper-threading.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Almost certainly not going to drop HT from the higher end mainstream parts. In the end it doesn't matter if they write "i9-9900k" or "i7-9900k" on box if it's the same thing inside.
I believe at the moment that the meltdown+specter mitigated coffee lake will come out strong and that Icelake (~10nm+ late 2019) will have good performance improvements, they can't afford to screw around when the AMD wrecking ball is right on top of them. That's part of why i am expecting that 8c16t part this quarter when they had to make a new coffee lake 14nm++ die anyway to incorporate the vulnerability fixes, they're under a ton of pressure to maintain their image as the premium performance parts.
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Spent $320~ish on 8gb ddr4, evga z370 and a 8100 for the wife's computer (retaining SSD, PSU, gtx970). This will be upgrading her 4th gen i3. Doesn't seem so bad compared to the sticker shock I've been looking at for my own upgrade 
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Hi, so I've not upgraded my computer yet (check my previous posts over the last page or two if you care).
I stream somewhat regularly, but always at 720@30fps (Starcraft Remastered). I've got an i7-3770, 12gb ddr3, SSD, Radeon 7800 2GB. So, not the best, but it's also 5-6 years old at this point. However, for my purposes, it's more than good. As we all know, SCR could run well on something far worse than this (I also don't use any of the fancy graphics either).
So now, transition over to streaming which is where my question will come into play:
I've never got any issues at 720@30fps, can stream for hours ... computer fans do work pretty hard as I can hear it. But that's about it. To be fair, I probably have to clean out some of the dust inside as it's been a while since I've done that.
Here's the problem: Recently, I've been wanting to stream 720@60fps because 60fps, as you know, is a bit smoother and crisper, especially for fast paced games (like SCR). I've noticed at these settings, the computer has randomly turned off after about 2 hours of streaming.
Would it be fair to assess that it's because of overheating? I deduce this because it's never happened @30fps. I tried to check the logs, but nothing about overheating or anything like that when it shut off. I could probably check my internal temps using some software, which I haven't done yet either. I guess this will help speed up the decision on the next computer I need to get Think of it as.... some sort of justification for a new gift to myself? lol
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Just watch/log your temperatures with HWINFO, you can see within minutes if your temps are likely to go out of range or not from a pure CPU load. Overheating is not normal function and would be fixed with routine cleaning (dust removal, making sure that there is half decent airflow through the case and remounting the CPU cooler if required)
Another possibility is PSU failure
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I decided to go for a new GPU for Monster Hunter World on PC, prices don't seem great right now but at least okay so I might as well.
The only real options seem to be between a 1080 and a 1070Ti.
In most benchmarks I can find an OC'd 1070Ti easily reaches a stock 1080 but I'm having a hard time finding out how they play out when both are OC'd. Best prices I can find right now are ~429€ for a 1070Ti (EVGA) and ~520€ for a 1080 (Phoenix GLH) with various deals in mind.
There's pretty much no way in hell the OC'd 1080 can pull 20%+ ahead of a 1070Ti and the latter is the easy choice there, right?
e: There's also a PNY 1080 for 480€ which sounds juicy but that seems to be one of the louder designs. I wish tests would include a short snippet so you can hear what exactly a fan sounds like.
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Hope it cools better than the founder edition blowers. Those things are awful.
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There is a rumour that Intel's 9th generation will work on motherboards designed for the 8th generation. We'll see. I'm still not considering any upgrade until Meltdown and Spectre are fixed properly.
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A lot more than a rumor but not entirely confirmed yet
The same CPU's are supposed to be the meltdown + spectre mitigated versions of coffee lake that Intel promised for Q3 2018.
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Hmm, I'll consider priorities and upgrade then. To be honest, my i7-5820k is still quite good. If I upgrade, it will be only because of Spectre and Meltdown alone.
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I'm going to build a computer and gonna be getting a cpu intensive computer but a mediocre graphics card (streaming for sc r) What can I expect to build for 500-600$ range?
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EPT
