EPTComputer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 378
| Forum Index > Tech Support |
When using this resource, please read the opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
|
Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
| ||
|
iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
| ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On September 20 2014 12:55 Firkraag8 wrote: Anyone with GTX 780Ti or similarly powerful setups can comment on how much FPS they get on Extreme in SC2? Trying to gauge if the GTX 980 would perform on 100+ to take advantage of a 120hz monitor! Several things are true about sc2; It's highly CPU limited with extreme reliance on one CPU thread, and it's also realtively graphically light, even on extreme. There's no need for a 780ti for 1080p - you might not even need more than a 750 to have the most FPS possible in fights. A stronger card like a 760-770 lets you have many hunderds of FPS where CPU is not limiting you, though. 780/970+ is completely overkill. Sc2 has some pretty major issues, the most out of any game that i have played recently that mess with motion fluidity, first is has a slight hang where it stops responding often when game timer hits every 10 seconds (so at like 20:30, 20:40, 20:50 for example) but because Faster happens faster than real time, that's actually every about once every ~7.6 seconds (i forgot the exact multiplier) and it freezes for ~70ms, which is a bit over 10 frames of motion lost on a 144hz screen. The other issue is bigger, the game engine ties simulation to graphical rendering incorrectly and produces massively uneven frametimes with a certain pattern to it, which makes 100fps in sc2 look worse in motion than 40fps in some other games. Both of these problems are far more obvious on higher refresh rate screens and higher performance systems, because you hit a wall of performance that you can't fix unless you run an FPS that is otherwise extremely excessive (~300-600fps at start of game plays fine, but you simply can't hold that because of CPU, the best CPU's are below 60 in heavy fights) The microstutter bug (second one) also makes ULMB or other strobe backlight technology worthless, unless your FPS is about 2-3x higher than your strobe rate, which is again impossible. Because of those problems i would strongly recommend choosing a screen based on some other game/s, because 144hz and low persistence tech is awesome, but most of the benefit is thrown away in games with very questionable engine coding The only thing that will add FPS is more GHz on your CPU (assuming your GPU is stouter than a paper napkin). I showed a moderate increase in RAM performance (from 1600c9 around normal performance to 2200c9 at similar timings) to give FPS increase similar to gaining even 300mhz on CPU, and someone on OCN saw similar results with a source engine game, csgo IIRC, so i will continue to recommend those ~$10-20ish more expensive RAM kits at ~2133-2666 or so with not terrible timings, but otherwise yes I have a 770 and i can tell you on extreme, without physics, it was at like 30% load in battles. With physics, it was lower, because CPU was choking on simulation and there were no frames to render. You can basically go, set max settings aside from physics off, reflections off, effects medium and then check minimum FPS in a fight, and as like as you have a GPU that's not completely terrible (even 1/5'th as strong as a 780ti or worse) you should see no real performance change. That's a pretty easy test that you can do yourself - A lot of people test FPS between settings in games like sc2 at the start of the game, but that doesn't give you the best information, because performance is so variable based on what's happening. Graphics settings in this game (aside from those three mentioned, they have significant effect on CPU and performance!) basically decide the ceiling for your performance, which you can see at the start of a game, while CPU performance decides the floor, which is often the same regardless of most settings. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On September 20 2014 06:21 Saryph wrote: Ok, first attempt at a build, case is still missing, and no gpu is displayed, but I am planning on picking up a gtx 980 soon. http://pcpartpicker.com/p/h4Y7Mp CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor Mobo: MSI Z97-GAMING 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard GPU: GTX 980: specific piece tbd. Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler PSU: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply A few of the parts are on sale, and the rest I could get now, or wait a couple of weeks to see if any sales pop up. If something stands out I would really appreciate any advice. Also any suggestions on a case to put it in as I have no knowledge of what is important to look for in one, except I need an external slot for an optical drive. There is no need for a 750w PSU, as you can run two overclocked 980's and an overclocked i5 on a good 550w PSU, but 650 is very safe for allowing you to do whatever you want with voltages and having the correct connectors (i believe 4x pci-e 6-pin) If you heard me/other talking about a gaming 5 board it was probably the gigabyte one which is one of the better cheap boards for trying to max an overclock with (but a friend of mine noticed that is has non-intel network controller, just to mention here, he said that causes issues for linux(?) and i think they are considered generally inferior) - overall, most of the boards are pretty good though, some may lose 100mhz over others, but there are not massive changes in OC performance. Asus probably has the best OC options, it's a little confusing with a some configuration stuff being brand exclusive, different names for stuff etc but i think most people have asus and giga with some MSI It's worth it to grab faster RAM because it helps a bit (as much as gaining ~200-300mhz on CPU) in several CPU bound game engines, as well as potentially in the future. Here, $13 cheaper and better - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231585&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID= | ||
|
Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
| ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On September 20 2014 14:34 Firkraag8 wrote: Thanks for the reply, let's hope that they try to at least improve things with LotV then. I made a thread about those two issues (which was at least linked to blizz) and i've talked about them quite a lot, there is a little hope because blizzard is using the same engine for heroes of the storm (so i probably can't play that either t;t) but overall i'm not sure if they will ever fix it. It's been five years since sc2 competition started | ||
|
Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
On September 20 2014 14:38 Cyro wrote: I made a thread about those two issues (which was at least linked to blizz) and i've talked about them quite a lot, there is a little hope because blizzard is using the same engine for heroes of the storm (so i probably can't play that either t;t) but overall i'm not sure if they will ever fix it. It's been five years since sc2 competition started SC2 deserves some Heroes of the Storm tech, they've got one more chance to make things right with LotV! | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NImvm2U.jpg) lol evga, you missed asus: ![[image loading]](http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2014/09/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-review/asus970-10b.jpg) msi: ![[image loading]](http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2014/09/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-review/msi970-6b.jpg) giga: ![[image loading]](http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/885/images/Image_04.jpg) 970 coolers^ Gigabyte has a modified version for 980, others probably do too. This one looks very sweet ![[image loading]](http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/885/images/Image_02.jpg) No messing around | ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
GeForce GTX 900 Series GPUs, like the newly-released GeForce GTX 980 and GeForce GTX 970, include an enhanced H.264 hardware encoder, further reducing the already-minimal performance of GeForce Experience's ShadowPlay gameplay recorder. What did you say about beta? =P | ||
|
Craton
United States17274 Posts
| ||
|
Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On September 20 2014 14:34 Cyro wrote: There is no need for a 750w PSU, as you can run two overclocked 980's and an overclocked i5 on a good 550w PSU, but 650 is very safe for allowing you to do whatever you want with voltages and having the correct connectors (i believe 4x pci-e 6-pin) If you heard me/other talking about a gaming 5 board it was probably the gigabyte one which is one of the better cheap boards for trying to max an overclock with (but a friend of mine noticed that is has non-intel network controller, just to mention here, he said that causes issues for linux(?) and i think they are considered generally inferior) - overall, most of the boards are pretty good though, some may lose 100mhz over others, but there are not massive changes in OC performance. Asus probably has the best OC options, it's a little confusing with a some configuration stuff being brand exclusive, different names for stuff etc but i think most people have asus and giga with some MSI It's worth it to grab faster RAM because it helps a bit (as much as gaining ~200-300mhz on CPU) in several CPU bound game engines, as well as potentially in the future. Here, $13 cheaper and better - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231585&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID= Thanks, I had chosen 750w because the site had said the parts I had already picked required up to 182w and the gtx 980 required at minimum 500w, so I had thought 650w would have been insufficient. For the RAM I originally had something similar to that picked out, but I kept reading that 1.65v RAM had a much shorter life because if it wasn't running at 1.5v something was wrong with it/it was an inferior product. Is there some step that I am missing in handling 1.65v RAM? Thanks for the help by the way. | ||
|
Craton
United States17274 Posts
GPUs really ham up their stated requirements. | ||
|
Saryph
United States1955 Posts
| ||
|
Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
On September 20 2014 22:06 Craton wrote: As mentioned previously, my entire system running dual gpus maxed out doesn't even pull 650W. GPUs really ham up their stated requirements. It's not good for a PSU to run at near max capacity, they are at their most energy efficient, silent and cool around 50-75% load. I would never run a computer that uses 550W with a 600W PSU, ever. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
When you buy a PSU to allow for a system to be at 100% CPU load on all cores while simultaneously at 100% GPU load on both GPU's, you don't have to worry about that happening often. So if you use 570w when that happens with overclocks on everything and all of the random fans and stuff in your system, it's no problem for a good 650w PSU ----- What did you say about beta? =P ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yYxQWry.png) I'm using a 1-day old version of geforce experience and gpu driver. Pretty big release cycle, i wonder how long alpha took if it's in beta through the entire lifespan of the 700 series that it was released with | ||
|
Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
| ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
It's much faster though, even the v1 maxwell was supposed to be ~2x as fast as kepler NVENC but they said that they improved it further. 1080p120/144 with decent settings incoming, as well as 4k60 with probably worse preset For significantly better quality per bit, they can also aparantly encode to h265 now, but that's not enabled yet and it's unknown to what extent it will work | ||
|
Craton
United States17274 Posts
On September 20 2014 23:10 Firkraag8 wrote: It's not good for a PSU to run at near max capacity, they are at their most energy efficient, silent and cool around 50-75% load. I would never run a computer that uses 550W with a 600W PSU, ever. I forgot to mention that was the load measured from the wall (~630W). So that already includes inefficiency. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
| ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
Crazy nice cards, they're way expensive in France though: http://www.materiel.net/carte-graphique/msi-geforce-gtx-970-gaming-4-go-108480.html Not sure where the hell the $350 cards are.. €369 is actually like $473, sucks living in a third-world country. sigh | ||
| ||
