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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On January 12 2014 10:02 Ropid wrote:What you could look into is "Shadowplay" from NVIDIA which is supported on their current generation of graphics cards. I think it works even with something somewhat cheap like a GTX 650 Ti. From what I heard, it can record stuff at good quality with very little performance impact (I have something like 5% lowered FPS in my mind but this could be very wrong). You should wait for someone that played around with it to answer (wait for Cyro). Regarding your laptop idea, there are capture cards and nowadays everything that can be an expansion card is also sold as an external part because laptops got so popular. That's what you could also look into. This is an example, look at the USB device: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity
Shadowplay on one GPU has ~0 performance hit if you're CPU bound, single digit if GPU bound (to my knowledge) but i would definately hesitate to use it on something important like speedrunning, especially across a variety of different games - it's still very much in beta and it's use is sketchy with some games, if you do the wrong thing in Osu for example you can record for 10 minutes then come back to an empty output file because it got broken.
You can record 24/7 though, on even w7 now, they fixed that limitation quite a while back. The 20 minutes is just for shadow record function (amount of time encoded video is held in buffer) but i don't use that, as it's kinda creepy having everything on your screen recorded in and out of game, and also imposes performance hit 24/7 (whereas manual record is invisible til you hit go)
Let me know if i missed anything from last pages, just woke up and opened like 30 threads
On topic of g-sync, it looks great and all, but there's no way i'm paying $275 on top of the screen price for a module that removes all hardware settings etc from monitor and can't be used in sync with the primary feature of most of the flagship "gaming" monitors (strobe backlight)
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Either way, free-sync is where it's going to be at in the future! Best be a bit patient and wait for prices to come down on new technology before going into them.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Either way, free-sync is where it's going to be at in the future! Best be a bit patient and wait for prices to come down on new technology before going into them.
I think it's just the DIY kit that's expensive, no way it's this kind of money for g-sync capability when they're natively building it into monitors.
I don't have a DP1.3 GPU or Screen, so if Freesync launched this year, there's no way for me to use it. There's no release window and i'd have to change both my screen and my graphics card for it.
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Oh yeah for sure, but I'm talking about when DP 1.3 becomes an industry standard; it's definitely far-off but the great thing is that this sort of stuff will, eventually, become an industry standard. In the mean time, I can live without it.
Problem with G-sync either way is that, as you say, the kit is an expensive add-on. I would much rather wait until this stuff becomes easy to get and cheap.
Just like the cheap monitor I'm using right now. 
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Problem with G-sync either way is that, as you say, the kit is an expensive add-on.
..for previous vg248qe owners, before a ton of monitors with native g-sync support built in release in q1 and q2 
Oh yeah for sure, but I'm talking about when DP 1.3 becomes an industry standard;
Will be nice, but i found that almost all of the cheering support for it comes from people that don't realize:
It doesn't work on any desktop screen on the market and never will
It doesn't work on any current GPU and likely never will
There is no release window
Once you get past those things, it seems likely that there will be a window of like a year where Nvidia has exclusive support for variable refresh rate and can charge extra for it, until dp1.3 is standard on both monitors and GPU's, variable vblank whatever is sorted out on screens, at which point they'll take away license fee or use the same method
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Wowow, talk about shooting down hype. Ty for lecture :D
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On January 12 2014 17:14 Cyro wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 12 2014 08:22 Thalandros wrote:Alright, I already made a thread about this on accident so I'm gonna start posting more in here from now on! I have two questions, and for both, opinions and suggestions are always welcome.  I'm currently stuck with a Phenom X6 1055T @2.8 Ghz, which is kind of bottlenecking my graphics card (Radeon HD 6970) by a big stretch. Considering I've recently mainly started playing games that are more CPU demanding (StarCraft II for 2.5 years now), some Planetside II here and there and I notice that overall, obviously, games get more processor-demanding. My GPU has no problems catching up and I imagine it won't for another 1, 1,5 years, but I really want to get my processor upgraded before that time so I can comfortably play Starcraft II at every setting (and also play Planetside with more than 20 FPS, hehe. ). So I have a couple of questions: Would a i5 4670k be worth it?Now I'm still really bad with computers - hardware wise mostly - and even though I'm trying to learn and observe as much as possible, I still don't install parts into my rig myself - I recently had someone else install a 120GB SSD I bought for me, and even though it didn't look that tricky, I have NO idea of the layout of my PC from the inside. Just a head's up. That said: Is it worth it getting the unlocked (k) version? Or should I stick with the normal version if I'm not very experienced with hardware? Also, if I were to overclock it, how far should I go that would be inside a ''safe area'' of overclocking? And obviously, I'd need to replace my AsRock Extreme3 870 motherboard for something that'll fit the 4670, so.. What motherboard would you suggest? I know I need to look at Z87 boards instead of H87's if I'm picking the unlocked version to overclock the CPU, but what should I look at? my motherboard doesn't need to be so advanced, just needs to do the job (~8 USB ports, 5.1/7.1 audio, etc.) I think it's absolutely worth it, to get a 4670k, a decent cooler and to target whatever you can get with ~1.3vcore or a bit over (probably ~4.5, 4.6) but cost for cost - probably not.Sc2 and KSP don't scale well past 2 cores (well, from what i hear now of KSP) and Planetside, while it scales better now, i don't think it would benefit a ton from a third core. An i3 4140? (3.4ghz model) or 4340 could kick some ass there if you don't want to go all the way to i5 or i5 + OC (for expensive but better performance in singlethreaded stuff and way better in multithreaded)You can go like h81+i3 for cheap, maybe i5 there - or ~z87+4670k Oh and also, please don't follow some random asus vid (i'll maybe look at it later)
1. What do you mean by for the cost? Are there better CPU's out there for less of a total cost (no external fan, expensive mobo, etc), or are you just saying it's not worth it if you look at performance/money wise?
2. Would it really be better to get something such as an i3 4140 which you mentioned, though? Considering an i5 4670k will be of much more help as we go on and extend the hardware needed to run most new games, won't the extra cost for, say an i5 4670k be justified by how long it stays relevant?
3. I live in the Netherlands and so far I'm having tough luck finding good deals that combine motherboard and CPU, so I'll have to hand-pick the mobo. Would this be a decent one to go with an i5 4670k, should I choose to go for that CPU?:
MSI Z87-G41
(Click on ''Specificaties'' for specs.)
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
1, It's just way more for 4670k. You're paying extra for CPU (in my currency it's ~+£79 for CPU) as well as extra for mobo (difference can be like £40) and then cooling on top of that (~£40 for thermalright hr-02 macho)
The added cost makes it harder to balance cpu/gpu budget etc, and how much you want to spend on each or the system. You could spend twice as much going to OC i5 system and not see twice as much gain, vs non-oc system. You'd definately feel performance either way though on sc2 and ps2 from upgrading to any haswell cpu and from overclocking. I'd value OC more if you want the best performance and/or want to play with hardware and learn stuff
i3 can be relatively close to stock i5 performance in such games (sc2, planetside 2, apparently KSP) so it can be a better buy specifically for them. OC or even stock i5 will definately stay relevant for longer in more well threaded applications or games
I would definately take z87x-d3h for oc mobo, maybe ud3h (or another board, if it has something that you specifically want), but gigabyte z87 is somewhat easier to work with than other manufacturers (because you don't have to use adaptive or offset voltage for vcore) and the d3h is a very strong board for its price (£94 right now in UK)
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On January 12 2014 23:13 Cyro wrote:
1, It's just way more for 4670k. You're paying extra for CPU (in my currency it's ~+£79 for CPU) as well as extra for mobo (difference can be like £40) and then cooling on top of that (~£40 for thermalright hr-02 macho)
The added cost makes it harder to balance cpu/gpu budget etc, and how much you want to spend on each or the system. You could spend twice as much going to OC i5 system and not see twice as much gain, vs non-oc system. You'd definately feel performance either way though on sc2 and ps2 from upgrading to any haswell cpu and from overclocking. I'd value OC more if you want the best performance and/or want to play with hardware and learn stuff
i3 can be relatively close to stock i5 performance in such games (sc2, planetside 2, apparently KSP) so it can be a better buy specifically for them. OC or even stock i5 will definately stay relevant for longer in more well threaded applications or games
I would definately take z87x-d3h for oc mobo, maybe ud3h (or another board, if it has something that you specifically want), but gigabyte z87 is somewhat easier to work with than other manufacturers (because you don't have to use adaptive or offset voltage for vcore) and the d3h is a very strong board for its price (£94 right now in UK)
The price difference in 4670/4670K is negatable, just 15 euro's extra, which makes it very attractive to just get the unlocked version and see what I can do with it. I really just want this to come with me for a long time, any new learning experiences are always welcome and wanted, although it's not my priority, obviously. Thanks for the help so far and I'll look further into it and post any further questions here! Much appreciated!
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
The price difference in 4670/4670K is negatable, just 15 euro's extra, which makes it very attractive to just get the unlocked version and see what I can do with it.
But you gotta pay a ton more for mobo and cooling, and you might have got a cheaper i5 than the 4670 for example; just don't buy a 4670+z87+cooler or 4670k+z87+cooler and sit at stock, that's a little silly
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On January 12 2014 09:23 Staboteur wrote:
What I've got currently:
OS : Windows 7 32 bit
RAM : 4 times the amount that Windows 7 32 bit will use (16gb) :D
What I think I need to replace:
[...] Also need to update to 64 bit windows to not be wasting my RAM. [...]
Just so you don't think you have to buy a new Windows license: your current Windows key works for installing 64-bit Windows. You can download a disc image here (x86 means 32-bit, x64 is 64-bit Windows): http://www.w7forums.com/threads/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-image-downloads.12325/
You format a USB stick as FAT32 and put the contents of the disc image onto it. Your Windows 8 laptop can open the disc image without special software so you might want to work on this on that laptop. There's also tools that help you prepare a USB stick if it does not want to boot after you copied things manually. Search for "rufus bootable usb".
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On January 13 2014 00:48 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +The price difference in 4670/4670K is negatable, just 15 euro's extra, which makes it very attractive to just get the unlocked version and see what I can do with it. But you gotta pay a ton more for mobo and cooling, and you might have got a cheaper i5 than the 4670 for example; just don't buy a 4670+z87+cooler or 4670k+z87+cooler and sit at stock, that's a little silly
Hehe, yeah, I got that the cooler you linked should be up to the task though, right?
Also, because I'm really unsure: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/333925/asrock-z87-pro3/specificaties/ That board is only 82€. is that because it's just really cheaply built, or really standard? Because I don't need any extra fluff or features - Just a motherboard that is reliable and does the job.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
hr-02 macho is good midrange, and silver arrow good high end air
would pay extra for convenience of d3h, but how much extra is it? I didn't see many people with z87 pro3, and don't really know much about it
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On January 13 2014 01:56 Thalandros wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 00:48 Cyro wrote:The price difference in 4670/4670K is negatable, just 15 euro's extra, which makes it very attractive to just get the unlocked version and see what I can do with it. But you gotta pay a ton more for mobo and cooling, and you might have got a cheaper i5 than the 4670 for example; just don't buy a 4670+z87+cooler or 4670k+z87+cooler and sit at stock, that's a little silly Hehe, yeah, I got that the cooler you linked should be up to the task though, right? Also, because I'm really unsure: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/333925/asrock-z87-pro3/specificaties/ That board is only 82€. is that because it's just really cheaply built, or really standard? Because I don't need any extra fluff or features - Just a motherboard that is reliable and does the job.
I really don't know anything definitive about the current Haswell generation of CPUs and their boards. The board's job of transforming 12 Volt into what the CPU needs partly moved into the CPU itself. Buying the cheapest board might be alright today because of that.
The worst I've seen is that cheap MSI Z87 boards seem to have some sort of limitation regarding what voltage you can set. That's probably not relevant if you are being careful to not touch high temperatures on the CPU. You will naturally be limited by that and can't approach high voltage because of being scared of the temperatures you see.
+ Show Spoiler [why I'm worried...] +On the previous Ivy Bridge generation (which uses Z77 chipset), I had a very bad experience with a cheap motherboard and overclocking. The 75 € board I originally bought got too hot. It slowed the CPU to protect itself when the power use got too high. This felt pretty ridiculous as I didn't even know it was possible for the board to accomplish slowing the CPU. Meanwhile, the CPU itself was not that hot. I used a 25 € cooler and it was staying around 80 C.
The cooling situation in the case was a little strange and might have created some sort of hot air pocket above the voltage regulation parts of the board. That was the guess I had because I did not find anything about this problem online. I later found someone trying to use the same board with a Sandy Bridge CPU (which still fits into a Z77 board). That was the only guy that reported the same problem I had. The Sandy Bridge CPU made the problem worse as it uses more power than Ivy Bridge, wants more voltage.
My current board was about 115 € (the shop let me exchange the other board) and stays pretty cold running the CPU at 1.4V while the cheap board was having its problem at 1.2V (that translates into 300 to 400 MHz more). The expensive board has a sensor for the voltage regulations parts and it usually tops out at 65 C for me in a warm room. Its protection will supposedly enable itself at 130 C, so that feels quite safe and a lot different compared to the cheap board.
When playing around with the cheap board, I was getting worried about the future. I intended the CPU to stay useful longer than normal through overclocking but was worrying about the board breaking early. I also did my experiments in the winter and got worried about summer temperatures. The board was barely managing to keep up at a moderate overclock and adding 10 C room temperature made the overclock break like described.
My calculations that originally said that overclocking makes sense were broken after replacing parts of the PC. I originally calculated that the price increase was fair. That was with a cheap board and 25 € cooler and a little overclock. I was guessing that accomplishing 4.4ghz would justify the extra money. You'd also get an extra two years out of the CPU as you would get something that's a good bit faster than the fastest CPU at stock speed. The change to an expensive board and another cooler makes overclocking a suspicious choice.
Also very important, how much you can overclock depends on the CPU you get. This is pure luck. It can change a lot about guessing if the price is fair. You are limited by temperature usually, and the temperature depends on the voltage you are using. What speed that voltage translates into is totally random. Some CPUs need very little to run stable but most are not very good. Intel only designed it so that all CPUs are fine at stock speed.
I'd suggest to approach overclocking like a game. Your goal is to find situations that crash programs or the whole PC, then get that to run stable. You are also looking at temperatures. The knobs you can turn are clock speed and various voltages. If that's fun for you, it's worth it. If it's not fun, it's probably not a good idea. If you only overclock very little, the price is probably too much for the performance increase you get. If you overclock as much as possible, it can take a lot of time until you feel confident in your settings being stable.
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Thanks Ropid, Myrmidon, y0su and Cyro for the advice! I'll reinstall windows as 64 bit, and take a look at heading for an i5 and a better GPU. Cheers!
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Hello, a friend of mine asked me to build a pc for him, so I come here for some suggestions
What is your budget?
800€ (~1092USD)
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
Media, webbrowsing, msoffice
Do you intend to overclock?
No
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
No
Do you need an operating system?
Yes
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
No
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
Generally Intel prefered over AMD in CPU, but not by much
GPU AMD and Nvidia are equally prefered
What country will you be buying your parts in?
Germany
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
Some German retailers I can suggest: www.hardwareversand.de , www.mindfactory.de ; www.geizhals.at/de is a good search engine for german retailers
If you need more infos or I did sth wrong please dont hesitate to tell me.
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What games you going to play? That budget got me an i5 4670 on a B85 board hooked up to a 7970. Though I didn't need the OS.
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What is your budget?
at most $670 to at least $447
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1440x900
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
none
Do you intend to overclock?
No
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
No
Do you need an operating system?
no
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
yes i need a monitor, no not yet
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
AMD and Nvidia
What country will you be buying your parts in?
Philippines
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
http://pcx.com.ph/
for personal deals (meet ups) http://www.tipidpc.com/
games I'd like to play are CoD series, NBA 2k series, skyrim
please if anything is vague please ask me! hoping for your help!
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I'd like your opinion on this: I want something light and small to take notes in class. Tought about a cheap (100$) tablet + silicone foldable keyboard as the solution. I prefer this to a laptop because it's lighter, seems cheaper or comparable, and very small size laptops seem to have annoying keyboards, so I would need an external keyboard anyway. (I have huge fingers)
I really just want:
- Google Docs or Open Office or equivalent
- a screen of at least 7''
- keyboard
- What OS should I look for ? Is there some OS on wich I would simply not be able to install either google docs or open office ?
- Would these 2 items fill the intended purpose, or there is something I'm missing ? Tablet with port Rollable Keyboard
- Is there anything else I'm missing that would make this not work ?
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EPT
