I'm about to move to a new appartment, and I've been thinking about a new multimedia setup! At the moment I use a quite powerful PC for work, I also use it to watch streams/movies, surf the web, listen to music and some SC2. The computer is connected through a docking station to my TV and my speakers. But the thing is that I don't wanna risk my work-computer, SC2 lags and in my new appartment I'm going to have 2 TVs.
That's why I'm thinking about switching to pure Apple for entertainment at home. I'm not very experienced with Apple except through my iPad and iPhone. So basically I need help from someone who knows this shit!
What I need - Computer that enables me to watch movies in 1080p with good sound quality and play SC2. - To be able to connect to an external screen(TV) wirelessly. I want to be able to see my desktop, play music and watch movies/streams. I also want to be able to switch to the other screen.
What I'm thinking(complete Apple noob) - iMac or MacBook Pro - Apple TV connected to both screens - iCapsule
Will this work? Do I need some shady software? Are there other options to satisfy my needs, or do I need to use cables(old school..)?
They're high quality, but way overpriced, and it all uses different adaptors and such that your stuck with the bullshit of having compatibility only if everything is applefyd. An apple laptop is competitive, but i still wouldn't go for one.
If your just trying to play starcraft 2 (streaming/watching TV can be done on a sub-$200 build...) than you can do that for around $300, more or less depending on quality and if your okay with used parts or not, etc.
I still dont understand where you got the idea this has to be apple.
The computer is connected through a docking station to my TV and my speakers. But the thing is that I don't wanna risk my work-computer, SC2 lags and in my new appartment I'm going to have 2 TVs.
Okay. PC works great for you. There is no problem, you just don't want to 'risk' your work computer, which doesn't make much sense, I don't know what you mean by this, how is playing sc2 a 'risk' to a computer, but if you need to keep work computer separate, whatever.
That's why I'm thinking about switching to pure Apple for entertainment at home.
So.... your thinking of going pure apple because you have a PC that works wonderfully for you?
Anything will work for you, it's just what price and quality you want. You can go to best buy, get the right set-up, and pay a huge mark-up on everything but if you are unknowledgeable and dont want to google anything, it'd be easy to do. If your willing to take an hour or two to look things up online, you can do as much as build your own set-up for a good value that does what you need.
Being able to watch TV/streams/etc really requires nothing, that's $200. Being able to play sc2 on good quality on a big resolution will cost a little more, but you should do that on less than $400-500.
Do you want 2 computers, or do you want 2 screens from the same computer? Are you using both screens at the same time (ie gaming and watching TV at same time?), or one at a time (either gaming, or TV)? Sounds just like dual monitor set-up, which any GPU can do nowadays, basically, and you could also just mis-match 2 different GPUs to do that as well.
There are plenty of adaptors and the like out there so you can be wireless.
Buy a Macbook Pro, been rocking one since 2008, still runs like a tank. You get what you pay for, the machine itself may not have the most extreme specs, but it's beautifully designed, quiet, and runs incredibly smoothly. My Macbook Pro (which is ~4.5 years old now) consistently runs smoother than my Windows PC at the office which is brand new.
You'll fall in love! The simplicity and power of Apple systems simply cannot be beat, I'm looking forward to buying a new MBP as soon as I pay off some of my student loan debt.
On November 29 2012 04:16 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: The appleTV is annoying unless you can get your hands on an atv2. Basicly it is great once jailbroaken with xbmc, crap with original software.
Mac is fine for playing sc. I can play with mid settings in 2560x1440 with no lower than 40-50 fps during large battles. ('11 iMac/radeon 6970m).
I would look into another media center solution. And btw don't by Boxee. Get something that you can get xbmc on.
Generally I like my macs, and the quality of the whole thing is worth the money.
There's a reason used i-devices, even in good condition, still resell for up to 60% of their original value; shit's just worth it!
You can't play SC2 on a 300$ computer (laptop) yet. 300$ will get you an AMD E-series (I guess that might get you low?) Or a pentium B950ish (again low, and still skeptical). Definitely won't look good on a monitor because you'd have to reduce the resolution.
Budget doesn't seem to be an issue though since you're considering Apple. I Will say this:
From a hardware standpoint, Apple IS overpriced. You can't argue against that, it's just plain true. You can get the same hardware (minus the screen on Retina) for ~500-~1000$ less.
However, their support, build quality, and screen (on Retina) is almost unmatched. I'm not a huge fan of their chassis anymore, it just seems stale to me, but is by no means bad aesthetically. But the only thing that comes close to it build wise that I can think of is the XPS 15, and that has throttling issues sometimes.
The MBP Retina is probably the best (and one of the most expensive) computers on the market right now. You pay 1200$ for the hardware, and 800$ for the support, build quality, etc. Depending on how much you value that, it can definitely be worth it. I've never owned and don't really want a MBP, but after being a blind "too expensive lol" kind of person for a while, I at least see why people buy them.
If you want Windows, take a look at the Asus UX51. It's basically a windows MBP, at similar pricing, but imo a better chassis. But as much of an Asus fan as I am, I think it's too expensive to merit getting over a MBP.
TL;DR
You don't need a MBP, or a 2,000$ windows computer. You can do what you're asking for for less. But if you want good quality (not the best), along with best in class support, build quality, etc, MBP could be a good choice.
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
On November 29 2012 04:16 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: The appleTV is annoying unless you can get your hands on an atv2. Basicly it is great once jailbroaken with xbmc, crap with original software.
Mac is fine for playing sc. I can play with mid settings in 2560x1440 with no lower than 40-50 fps during large battles. ('11 iMac/radeon 6970m).
I would look into another media center solution. And btw don't by Boxee. Get something that you can get xbmc on.
Generally I like my macs, and the quality of the whole thing is worth the money.
There's a reason used i-devices, even in good condition, still resell for up to 60% of their original value; shit's just worth it!
40% loss on apple crap is usually more expensive than 100% of a simple equiv pc box.
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
That's not called "ease of use", that's called "limiting user options". I wouldn't call that a good thing...
Or you end up spending 2 hours to search for a Mac version because it's a Windows only program... Seriously, I dont know what you have against Windows machines... I run one and it couldnt be "smoother"... Even if I plug in 3 monitors and play SC2 while watching 2 HD Streams ... and it didnt cost me $2000 ($800 IIRC) and I can upgrade whenever I want.
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
Seriously, I really cant tell wether or not you're trolling your pants off right now. You do realize that 'from personal experience' and 'subjective' is exactly the same, right? Your arguments make no sense at all, not even going to bother countering anything (done that too many times already anyways)
For the OP, just like Belial said already you probably just want a multimonitor setup, and for like 4500 SEK you can get a pc which can handle SC2 just fine (I have no clue about prices in Sweden honestly), there really is no need to spend too much money
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
Why? From personal experience I can attest that Windows is much simpler than OSX. There are also many articles/essays written about the ease of use of Windows products. Here's a perfect example, you want to write a game in Windows and OSX. To install it in Windows, you use the WIDELY used DirectX software... in OSX you have to re-write the game, and redo a lot of software, and that's it! (I know that the average user doesn't code, but due to this a lot of games in OSX aren't as optimized, which IS a consumer impact)
Yes, it's not perfect, but do you see what I'm getting at? I prefer windows to OSX. Part of it is reluctance to learn a new system, but part of it is genuine preference. I see why people like OSX more, but the reasons don't exactly sing to me. I like the taskbar/task manager more than the OSX dock, and I prefer the way that multitasking works slightly in Windows.
Oddly enough, a lot of people seem to like the "launchpad" or whatever, when the metro UI is basically the same thing, but gets a lot of flack. (Really a sidenote more than anything)
Edit: I'm not trying to sound condescending or anything, I'm just trying to show how easily you can use that exact paragraph in the opposite way.
Oh, and skydrive/google drive are both much better than the apple solution, imo.
Lol here we go again. But if the Apple tv is the only thing that your going for mac i would consider pc laptop aswell. What i love about the OSX is its stability and lightweight running. It gives you outstanding performance from developers perspective. Whatever your into making music, or modelling etc. its a good platform.
Its still overpriced as hell though. So when i bought my laptop i tought for mac also, but did go for ASUS, because i saved almost half of the money and NO regrets.
I honestly cringe every time I see a person take out their Apple laptop. I scolded my sister for buying one. When I compared the specs between our two laptops, mines was far more superior at half the cost. You pay for the brand, not the hardware. I'm not sure how many average people realize that. Good advertising on their part I suppose, with the revolutionary iPod and what-not.
On November 29 2012 07:03 Alryk wrote: Part of it is reluctance to learn a new system, but part of it is genuine preference.
I was honestly confused as hell when I was trying to use my sister's macbook pro. I'm sure if I had it for a few days straight I'd be able to learn it, but in the time to learn it all I don't find it to be worth it. I was sitting there trying to figure out how to navigate for my programs, copying and pasting, ...trivial things such as that.
On November 29 2012 07:00 Watercrystal wrote: Or you end up spending 2 hours to search for a Mac version because it's a Windows only program...
Another pain-staking experience I had the first time on a Mac. I barely fit SC2 on my flash drive, and I bring it over for my week long break last summer. I totally forgot about needing Mac versions of programs since I'm used to installing programs that always used Windows instead of Mac. I didn't have a fun break.
I'm completely in love with my iPhone, it has a lot of value in my life. Although for most of their other products I just can't see how people justify the costs for overpriced pieces of electronics. It's hard for anyone to deny that they indeed jack up the prices on their products because they know they have a solid grasp on average consumers. I guess this is perhaps why I'm so critical about this when in reality most people don't know what they're paying for really. I still have friends come up to me and ask how much RAM my laptop has in what they think is a measure of how fast a computer should be. Although what's mind-boggling is how my tech geek friends are so infatuated with Apple. They have an equal level of understanding, yet decide to buy Apple products anyways. If anyone who falls in that same category or has some insight into that, I would like to hear their answer. I'm not even being sarcastic or anything, I seriously want to know why.
The biggest complaint I have with Apple computers is that even the most expensive ($2,500+) Mac desktops only use complete garbage "Mobile" (aka laptop) graphics cards and the vast majority also use mobile CPUs. Add to this their fancy for using extremely high resolution monitors and you have a quite embarrassing combination. The most expensive 680M mobile card available can only crank out a hilarious slide-show esque 20fps in Metro 2033. The worst part? That's only at 1080p, significantly turned down from the monitors native resolution of 2880x1800. Now not only are you going to get a blurry picture due to the imagine being stretched to fit the screen or play in a small window with large black bars, you're also going to get drastically worse performance at a higher cost, because Apple insists on using incredibly tiny cases so they look pretty... rather than performing well. As someone who is working on a degree in IT and has built systems for businesses, friends and personal pleasure; I can say with confidence the only people who buy Apple are the people who have no idea what they're buying. They're buying sub-par hardware at a price premium for a pretty case. It's really quite an incredible marketing feat, however very embarrassing to people who know what they are looking at.
TL:DR Apple products are terrible for gaming due to only using mobile graphics cards, lack of support for their native OS, lack of quality drivers for the latest GPU support, lack of drivers for peripheral support, inability to run anything but flash games in the monitors native resolution due to lack of GPU power, very overpriced for the hardware you get if you're into gaming. Mechanics don't buy Chryslers and IT professionals don't buy Apple products. I wonder why?
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
lol, I can counter this point by setting my download destination folder as Desktop... TADA! DADADERP!
Ease of use IS subjective. As somebody who grew up using Windows and never really being exposed to Apple products, I find OSX to be hard to use because of its tendency to move shit around for no particular reason and the strange wording of things. Airport mode is WiFi? But... I'm not at an airport...
On November 29 2012 07:26 Mr. Nefarious wrote: The biggest complaint I have with Apple computers is that even the most expensive ($2,500+) Mac desktops only use complete garbage "Mobile" (aka laptop) graphics cards. Add to this their fancy for using extremely high resolution monitors and you have a quite embarrassing combination. The most expensive 680M mobile card available can only crank out a hilarious slide-show esque 20fps in Metro 2033. The worst part? That's only at 1080p, significantly turned down from the monitors native resolution of 2880x1800. Now not only are you going to get a blurry picture due to the imagine being stretched to fit the screen or play in a small window with large black bars, you're also going to get drastically worse performance at a higher cost, because Apple insists on using incredibly tiny cases so they look pretty... rather than performing well. As someone who is working on a degree in IT and has built systems for businesses, friends and personal pleasure; I can say with confidence the only people who buy Apple are the people who have no idea what they're buying. They're buying sub-par hardware at a price premium for a pretty case. It's really quite an incredible marketing feat, however very embarrassing to people who know what they are looking at.
TL:DR Apple products are terrible for gaming due to only using mobile graphics cards, lack of support for their native OS, lack of quality drivers for the latest GPU support, lack of drivers for peripheral support, inability to run anything but flash games in the monitors native resolution due to lack of GPU power, very overpriced for the hardware you get if you're into gaming. Mechanics don't buy Chryslers and IT professionals don't buy Apple products. I wonder why?
Fwiw, it's unfair to say that the Mac desktops use mobile graphics cards. You're referring to the iMac, an all-in-one that uses a 650M-680M. Other all-in-ones usually have not much better than a 640M, and I don't know of one that sells with a desktop card (it wouldn't fit in the monitor/base, and would be impossible to cool).
The Mac Pro (albeit unupgraded for like 3 years) ships with a desktop GPU. Not sure why a gamer would buy one, and it doesn't seem like it's what the OP needs, but it's true.
"People have no idea what they're buying" isn't true. The problem with the polarizing opinions on MBP and other Apple products is how much you value the support. Some people couldn't care less about support and build quality. Those kinds of people are why HP is still outselling a company like Asus - lots of hardware in a shitty chassis. To others, support, build quality, and screen quality really do matter, and that's why Apple is successful with them. That's what you're paying for - it's not just the brand name. The MPB w/ RD really does have a better screen, build, and customer service than any other computer out there. You can't tell somebody it's not worth the extra money because you don't know how much those services are worth to them. You can't put a pricetag on subjective things like that, and for objective things like Screen and build quality, where performance isn't measured in fps, you again, can't decide for them how much it's worth to them.
It's the same reason why people buy 500$ iPads over 300$ notebooks. The form factor, build quality, screen quality, and customer support are all 100% objectively better. Even though a Pentium B960 is WAY better than an A5X chip (or A6X), people put more value on the things that the iPad wins in.
On November 29 2012 07:21 Sovano wrote: All aboard the Apple-hate train. CHOO-CHOO!
I honestly cringe every time I see a person take out their Apple laptop. I scolded my sister for buying one. When I compared the specs between our two laptops, mines was far more superior at half the cost. You pay for the brand, not the hardware. I'm not sure how many average people realize that. Good advertising on their part I suppose, with the revolutionary iPod and what-not.
On November 29 2012 07:03 Alryk wrote: Part of it is reluctance to learn a new system, but part of it is genuine preference.
I was honestly confused as hell when I was trying to use my sister's macbook pro. I'm sure if I had it for a few days straight I'd be able to learn it, but in the time to learn it all I don't find it to be worth it. I was sitting there trying to figure out how to navigate for my programs, copying and pasting, ...trivial things such as that.
On November 29 2012 07:00 Watercrystal wrote: Or you end up spending 2 hours to search for a Mac version because it's a Windows only program...
Another pain-staking experience I had the first time on a Mac. I barely fit SC2 on my flash drive, and I bring it over for my week long break last summer. I totally forgot about needing Mac versions of programs since I'm used to installing programs that always used Windows instead of Mac. I didn't have a fun break.
I'm completely in love with my iPhone, it has a lot of value in my life. Although for most of their other products I just can't see how people justify the costs for overpriced pieces of electronics. It's hard for anyone to deny that they indeed jack up the prices on their products because they know they have a solid grasp on average consumers. I guess this is perhaps why I'm so critical about this when in reality most people don't know what they're paying for really. I still have friends come up to me and ask how much RAM my laptop has in what they think is a measure of how fast a computer should be. Although what's mind-boggling is how my tech geek friends are so infatuated with Apple. They have an equal level of understanding, yet decide to buy Apple products anyways. If anyone who falls in that same category or has some insight into that, I would like to hear their answer. I'm not even being sarcastic or anything, I seriously want to know why.
I probably fit in that category. I know quite a bit about computers, to the point where I've built several, can code a bit, have set up and ran several linux-based servers, used linux as desktop os for about 3 years, used windows for a few years and now having used osx since '08.
There are 4 reasons I went with Apple. 1. I was bored of the upkeep involved in running a linux desktop. 2. I wanted a nice computer, and I wanted to try OSX. 3. I was tired of massive noisy mid towers and cheap monitors. 4. I was about done with gaming, so I was done chasing ultimate performance per dollar.
I am generally very happy with my iMac, not so much with Mountain Lion.
From personal experience I've come to the following conclusions:
- I don't really mind what os I'm running. They all have their good and bad. If I were to recommend one to a general user I would say windows 7.
- I think a mac is worth it, _if_ you are not after the highest possible performance. With a mac you invest in a high quality display and design.
Hm that's a good way of putting things Alryk. I do admit, they have great customer service. My little brother had a mushy feeling home button on his iTouch. I drove over to the nearest Apple store and got it replaced in a matter of five minutes.
Yes, the service Apple provides is one of the few comforting things in consumer electronics. Haven't dealt with such easy service before. If you have an actual valid complaint and can communicate like a human being, 90% of the time you just go into the Apple Store and they hand you a new one no questions asked. Even if your complaint is really shitty, you can still get away with it if you're good at storytelling.
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
That's not called "ease of use", that's called "limiting user options". I wouldn't call that a good thing...
No that is called ease of use. There is no point having user options for the sake of user options. Do I like clicking next a billion times, flooding the start menu with programs who think they're the prima donna, and making sure I don't click in some shitty toolbar in the process? No, Apple basically got it more right than Windows has. You install by dragging it somewhere. You uninstall by deleting the file. It still dumps files in the library folder so you can still mess around shit if you really want to.
Microsoft's solution to this problem was basically win key + search. The start menu is useless because every program wants to have its own shitty spot in the menu and if you've got enough programs, its actually hard to find what you want if you smash next all the time to install software.
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
Why? From personal experience I can attest that Windows is much simpler than OSX. There are also many articles/essays written about the ease of use of Windows products. Here's a perfect example, you want to write a game in Windows and OSX. To install it in Windows, you use the WIDELY used DirectX software... in OSX you have to re-write the game, and redo a lot of software, and that's it! (I know that the average user doesn't code, but due to this a lot of games in OSX aren't as optimized, which IS a consumer impact)
That's not ease of use no matter how you spin it.
On November 29 2012 07:03 Alryk wrote: Yes, it's not perfect, but do you see what I'm getting at? I prefer windows to OSX. Part of it is reluctance to learn a new system, but part of it is genuine preference. I see why people like OSX more, but the reasons don't exactly sing to me. I like the taskbar/task manager more than the OSX dock, and I prefer the way that multitasking works slightly in Windows.
If you're reluctant to learn new things, then there's your problem.
Aero Peek, Snap, and a slightly more robust File Explorer (copy paste is better) are the only things that are really better about Windows 7/8. OSX has very, very good support for stable third party modifications so you can get Aero Snap on it for like $3 (amongst other things like Total Finder). Since Apple enforces actual standards with their software, most third party modifications just slot in unobtrusively.
I can explain the merits of OSX if you really want me to. I've done it at least once when someone asked me why I think Mac OS is the better laptop OS.
Windows 8 especially is dreadful for desktops and laptops.
Oddly enough, a lot of people seem to like the "launchpad" or whatever, when the metro UI is basically the same thing, but gets a lot of flack. (Really a sidenote more than anything)
People don't like Launchpad. Launchpad isn't also the home screen that you have to put up with when you smash win key, its just a replacement for the bloated app folder. Also Launchpad opens quite easily with a very easy touchpad gesture (and since Mac trackpads don't suck, it actually works).
Edit: I should add that Mac OS is best when its a laptop. When it comes to dekstop, I don't see any point getting it over Windows unless you're going to use the Magic Trackpad or whatever its called. The whole OS hinges on trackpad use and if you can't use trackpads, it gets a lot more annoying to use. Just like Windows 8 with non-tablet devices.
This thread seems to be turning into an Apple vs Windows thread.... Personally I HAATTEE Apple, but you pay for the brand and the form factor. I do admit Apple does a fantastic job designing their system and their build quality is pretty good. But you're severely limited if you want to get Apple products. You can pretty much only do what Apple wants you to do, unless you jailbreak.
If you want to get a MBP, by all means go right on ahead. But you should seriously do some research first. You can get a much faster and more powerful system than a MBP for MUCH cheaper. It really all depends on what you want to do.
Best laptop in the market, no doubt. Amazing screen quality, amazing trackpad, amazing formfactor.
Did I say amazing track pad?
/edit
Disclosure: I recently purchased a macbook air for school and its a complete joy to use~ Can't imagine using another laptop. Have a self-built PC for gaming in my "study". Muahahaha
Wouldn't want to have a PC in my living room though, too ugly, too many wires and what not. And if you find really nice looking CPU case and screens, well, the price picks up~
Honestly, everyone here is completely ignoring the elephant in the corner. People that actually have degrees in computer science or know how to build computers NEVER buy Apple products. Want a real lesson about Apple? Walk to your nearest major university, walk into any IT or CS classroom and ask the people who do it for a living what they think. You'll either be laughed out of the building or hopefully educated to the point where you wouldn't consider one.
Having a degree in computer science is irrelevant in what products you buy as a consumer. Tons of knowledgeable individuals buy Apple products. Your statement makes you look like a child.
On November 29 2012 09:57 Mr. Nefarious wrote: Honestly, everyone here is completely ignoring the elephant in the corner. People that actually have degrees in computer science or know how to build computers NEVER buy Apple products. Want a real lesson about Apple? Walk to your nearest major university, walk into any IT or CS classroom and ask the people who do it for a living what they think. You'll either be laughed out of the building or hopefully educated to the point where you wouldn't consider one.
Did you even take a look at that magical trackpad? :drooool:
On November 29 2012 09:57 Mr. Nefarious wrote: Honestly, everyone here is completely ignoring the elephant in the corner. People that actually have degrees in computer science or know how to build computers NEVER buy Apple products. Want a real lesson about Apple? Walk to your nearest major university, walk into any IT or CS classroom and ask the people who do it for a living what they think. You'll either be laughed out of the building or hopefully educated to the point where you wouldn't consider one.
Biggest pile of horseshit I've ever read. There are TONS of coders who uses apple products; technical competence is not a factor.
On November 29 2012 09:57 Mr. Nefarious wrote: Honestly, everyone here is completely ignoring the elephant in the corner. People that actually have degrees in computer science or know how to build computers NEVER buy Apple products. Want a real lesson about Apple? Walk to your nearest major university, walk into any IT or CS classroom and ask the people who do it for a living what they think. You'll either be laughed out of the building or hopefully educated to the point where you wouldn't consider one.
Not true. As I stated earlier some of my fellow real life tech geek friends own Apple products nonetheless. Even the computer labs at my big university, including the one in my CS department, they still do have Apple products. However, you don't need a degree in CS nor knowledge of building computers to competently know this kind of stuff..ijs.
Anyways OP, using Apple as your way of watching stuff on a larger resolution like an Apple TV is fine, but asking to also play SC2 is a bit too much unless you have a big budget or are willing to find different laptops that are not Apple or willing to have a well-built desktop for your gaming needs and a laptop for your entertainment.
On November 29 2012 09:57 Mr. Nefarious wrote: Honestly, everyone here is completely ignoring the elephant in the corner. People that actually have degrees in computer science or know how to build computers NEVER buy Apple products. Want a real lesson about Apple? Walk to your nearest major university, walk into any IT or CS classroom and ask the people who do it for a living what they think. You'll either be laughed out of the building or hopefully educated to the point where you wouldn't consider one.
Not true. As I stated earlier some of my fellow real life tech geek friends own Apple products nonetheless. Even the computer labs at my big university, including the one in my CS department, they still do have Apple products. However, you don't need a degree in CS nor knowledge of building computers to competently know this kind of stuff..ijs.
Anyways OP, using Apple as your way of watching stuff on a larger resolution like an Apple TV is fine, but asking to also play SC2 is a bit too much unless you have a big budget or are willing to find different laptops that are not Apple or willing to have a well-built desktop for your gaming needs and a laptop for your entertainment.
Agree about your points, and others, that CS and IT pro's advocate against Apple. That idea is innately wrong. It boils down to personal preference, budget, and little else. Anything else is just gibberish and noise.
About SC2, I have an early 2011 15' Macbook Pro with the lower level graphics processor and I can play SC2 just fine on Medium settings and completely smooth on Low (which I've always preferred) at around 60 FPS. I can always just Boot Camp into Windows if I need to but haven't ever needed for D3 or SC2. Those are the only games I play on computers though so I don't have any experience with anything else.
Apple computers are fine. They have two MAJOR disadvantages, though.
The first, and most important one, is that you pay a fuckton more for hardware you could get for much less on a Windows PC. I don't care what anyone says, the pricing on an Apple has yet to be even remotely competitive.
The second, and almost as important disadvantage, is that there are still very few third party developers that work on mac in addition to PC. Generally, mac versions of such programs trail behind the PC versions by quite a bit, if you're lucky to find a developer who's willing to support both. This isn't as bad as it was even a few years ago, but I know it can be frustrating.
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
Why would being able to set exactly where your program installation goes be a disadvantage? Also, having an OS be more and more graphically based is not necessarily a good thing.
All you have to do is watch a video concerning IBM's Watson. Everyone is either using Thinkpads or Macbooks. Same with videos of CERN. The only place Macbooks don't exist is in engineering and that's because engineering software is old, poorly written, and full of people with bad opinions.
A lot of IT professionals now use Apple laptops. Flexible Unix base if you know how to use it, has a walled garden approach to stop employees from fucking up things accidently, has a lot of powerful multitasking options, they're generally built well and have very good interface hardware like the display, keyboard, and trackpad, and warranty work is outsourced to Apple.
On November 29 2012 10:52 PH wrote: Apple computers are fine. They have two MAJOR disadvantages, though.
The first, and most important one, is that you pay a fuckton more for hardware you could get for much less on a Windows PC. I don't care what anyone says, the pricing on an Apple has yet to be even remotely competitive.
Compared to business laptops, yes they are. Unlike business laptops, the base models actually typically pack the best TN screens money can buy.
The MacBook Air is also around the same price as good ultrabooks. If you want to save money, buy refurb. Apple refurbs are basically the same as new laptops and come with new warranty IIRC.
The second, and almost as important disadvantage, is that there are still very few third party developers that work on mac in addition to PC. Generally, mac versions of such programs trail behind the PC versions by quite a bit, if you're lucky to find a developer who's willing to support both. This isn't as bad as it was even a few years ago, but I know it can be frustrating.
What software, besides games and old engineering crap, isn't supported? I can't think of very many at all that are actually useful.
Why would being able to set exactly where your program installation goes be a disadvantage? Also, having an OS be more and more graphically based is not necessarily a good thing.
Because there is no point to it for the majority of people. The Windows system lets you dump files onto a different hard disk, yes, but installation packages on Windows basically offer nothing useful at all besides packaged adware and flooding your start menu with crap. .
What Mac does is that you install by dragging the files to your app folder. You uninstall by deleting it. Does exactly the same thing as Windows does with installation and uninstallation except it gets rid of many of the pointless steps.
On November 29 2012 10:52 PH wrote: Apple computers are fine. They have two MAJOR disadvantages, though.
The first, and most important one, is that you pay a fuckton more for hardware you could get for much less on a Windows PC. I don't care what anyone says, the pricing on an Apple has yet to be even remotely competitive.
You realize the MBP is a business grade notebook? No fucking duh if you compare with consumer grade garbage than the price is not competitive.
On November 29 2012 10:53 Womwomwom wrote: All you have to do is watch a video concerning IBM's Watson. Everyone is either using Thinkpads or Macbooks. Same with videos of CERN. The only place Macbooks don't exist is in engineering and that's because engineering software is old, poorly written, and full of people with bad opinions.
A lot of IT professionals now use Apple laptops. Flexible Unix base if you know how to use it, has a walled garden approach to stop employees from fucking up things accidently, has a lot of powerful multitasking options, they're generally built well and have very good interface hardware like the display, keyboard, and trackpad, and warranty work is outsourced to Apple.
On November 29 2012 10:52 PH wrote: Apple computers are fine. They have two MAJOR disadvantages, though.
The first, and most important one, is that you pay a fuckton more for hardware you could get for much less on a Windows PC. I don't care what anyone says, the pricing on an Apple has yet to be even remotely competitive.
Compared to business laptops, yes they are. Unlike business laptops, the base models actually typically pack the best TN screens money can buy.
The MacBook Air is also around the same price as good ultrabooks. If you want to save money, buy refurb. Apple refurbs are basically the same as new laptops and come with new warranty IIRC.
The second, and almost as important disadvantage, is that there are still very few third party developers that work on mac in addition to PC. Generally, mac versions of such programs trail behind the PC versions by quite a bit, if you're lucky to find a developer who's willing to support both. This isn't as bad as it was even a few years ago, but I know it can be frustrating.
What software, besides games and old engineering crap, isn't supported? I can't think of very many at all that are actually useful.
Why would being able to set exactly where your program installation goes be a disadvantage? Also, having an OS be more and more graphically based is not necessarily a good thing.
Because there is no point to it for the majority of people. The Windows system lets you dump files onto a different hard disk, yes, but installation packages on Windows basically offer nothing useful at all besides packaged adware.
What Mac does is that you install by dragging the files to your app folder. You uninstall by deleting it. Does exactly the same thing as Windows does with installation and uninstallation except it gets rid of many of the pointless steps.
It was also rather telling that the images coming out of NASA JPL from the Curiosity rover launch/landing showed an overwhelming amount of Macbook Pro's. Thought that was rather interesting, just for interesting's sake.
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
lol, I can counter this point by setting my download destination folder as Desktop... TADA! DADADERP!
Ease of use IS subjective. As somebody who grew up using Windows and never really being exposed to Apple products, I find OSX to be hard to use because of its tendency to move shit around for no particular reason and the strange wording of things. Airport mode is WiFi? But... I'm not at an airport...
Ignorance in how to use an OS is not a good way to argue against something. OSX doesn't just move things around. I've never had that happen in the 3 years I've used it daily. It was more likely you being unfamiliar with the filing system.
Airport is the network connections hub where you handle wifi connections, and handle network preferences overall. Windows has the same thing but it just has a different name. Using OSX for 2 hours you would learn this, but it is obvious you just tried it for 30 seconds at a store.
You can save downloads to desktop too on Mac. You can too on Linux as well. That isn't anything special...
On November 29 2012 09:57 Mr. Nefarious wrote: Honestly, everyone here is completely ignoring the elephant in the corner. People that actually have degrees in computer science or know how to build computers NEVER buy Apple products. Want a real lesson about Apple? Walk to your nearest major university, walk into any IT or CS classroom and ask the people who do it for a living what they think. You'll either be laughed out of the building or hopefully educated to the point where you wouldn't consider one.
Oh, so that's why every CS prof at my university owns a MacBook Pro and has an iMac in their office. At the CS department at my uni there is roughly a 50/50 split between students who have Macs and people running Thinkpads or similar laptops dualbooting Windows7 and various Linux distros. There's 5 labs at my uni, 2 Linux, 2 Mac, and one Windows. The Windows lab is usually filled with first years who haven't learned Linux or OSX yet while the rest use either the Mac or Linux labs. Windows isn't a good OS once you get used to literally anything else. I vastly prefer Linux over Windows (I use either Mint or Arch Linux.), but I put OSX as the best of them all. It is the smoothest to use, can do the same stuff so much simpler than Windows, and is about as stable as you can get. I've owned a Macbook for almost 3 years and can count the number of crashes/lockups I've had on one hand, and all were due to Flash.
When it comes to CS it is all down to preference, some will use one platform or another. It doesn't really matter. At my university there is a strong preference to Mac OS from the profs and many of the students.
And to the point people are trying (and failing) to make, what non-game applications are there that Mac is lagging behind Windows on? I honestly can't think of any. Everything I need for CS is available on OSX, and from my experiences, works way smoother (I'm not even going to get into getting Eclipse with the C++ plugin going on Windows compared to OSX or Linux. It is a half hour plus process compared to a 10 second process).
On November 29 2012 10:52 PH wrote: Apple computers are fine. They have two MAJOR disadvantages, though.
The first, and most important one, is that you pay a fuckton more for hardware you could get for much less on a Windows PC. I don't care what anyone says, the pricing on an Apple has yet to be even remotely competitive.
You realize the MBP is a business grade notebook? No fucking duh if you compare with consumer grade garbage than the price is not competitive.
This is an important point. It is something we have to point out on a tech forum I frequent as well. If you think Macs are too expensive, go price out a T-Series Lenovo Thinkpad (also a business-grade laptop) to roughly the same specs and an upgraded battery to match the Mac. Surprise! It costs roughly the same. Go price out an HP Elitebook with similar specs. Surprise! It costs roughly the same. They are different classes of laptops that have to be built better to withstand business usage, hence why they may not be as powerful but are built like tanks.
On November 29 2012 08:22 Womwomwom wrote: Yes, the service Apple provides is one of the few comforting things in consumer electronics. Haven't dealt with such easy service before. If you have an actual valid complaint and can communicate like a human being, 90% of the time you just go into the Apple Store and they hand you a new one no questions asked. Even if your complaint is really shitty, you can still get away with it if you're good at storytelling.
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
That's not called "ease of use", that's called "limiting user options". I wouldn't call that a good thing...
No that is called ease of use. There is no point having user options for the sake of user options. Do I like clicking next a billion times, flooding the start menu with programs who think they're the prima donna, and making sure I don't click in some shitty toolbar in the process? No, Apple basically got it more right than Windows has. You install by dragging it somewhere. You uninstall by deleting the file. It still dumps files in the library folder so you can still mess around shit if you really want to.
Microsoft's solution to this problem was basically win key + search. The start menu is useless because every program wants to have its own shitty spot in the menu and if you've got enough programs, its actually hard to find what you want if you smash next all the time to install software.
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
Why? From personal experience I can attest that Windows is much simpler than OSX. There are also many articles/essays written about the ease of use of Windows products. Here's a perfect example, you want to write a game in Windows and OSX. To install it in Windows, you use the WIDELY used DirectX software... in OSX you have to re-write the game, and redo a lot of software, and that's it! (I know that the average user doesn't code, but due to this a lot of games in OSX aren't as optimized, which IS a consumer impact)
On November 29 2012 07:03 Alryk wrote: Yes, it's not perfect, but do you see what I'm getting at? I prefer windows to OSX. Part of it is reluctance to learn a new system, but part of it is genuine preference. I see why people like OSX more, but the reasons don't exactly sing to me. I like the taskbar/task manager more than the OSX dock, and I prefer the way that multitasking works slightly in Windows.
If you're reluctant to learn new things, then there's your problem.
Aero Peek, Snap, and a slightly more robust File Explorer (copy paste is better) are the only things that are really better about Windows 7/8. OSX has very, very good support for stable third party modifications so you can get Aero Snap on it for like $3 (amongst other things like Total Finder). Since Apple enforces actual standards with their software, most third party modifications just slot in unobtrusively.
I can explain the merits of OSX if you really want me to. I've done it at least once when someone asked me why I think Mac OS is the better laptop OS.
Windows 8 especially is dreadful for desktops and laptops.
Oddly enough, a lot of people seem to like the "launchpad" or whatever, when the metro UI is basically the same thing, but gets a lot of flack. (Really a sidenote more than anything)
People don't like Launchpad. Launchpad isn't also the home screen that you have to put up with when you smash win key, its just a replacement for the bloated app folder. Also Launchpad opens quite easily with a very easy touchpad gesture (and since Mac trackpads don't suck, it actually works).
Edit: I should add that Mac OS is best when its a laptop. When it comes to dekstop, I don't see any point getting it over Windows unless you're going to use the Magic Trackpad or whatever its called. The whole OS hinges on trackpad use and if you can't use trackpads, it gets a lot more annoying to use. Just like Windows 8 with non-tablet devices.
Ok, a couple things about your quotes on me:
1) I would argue that being easier to code and optimize is certainly ease of use. And a poorly optimized game in OSX (Granted, rare) would certainly cause headaches to the consumer, which is certainly not ease of use.
I never said I was reluctant to learn things. I said that's part of me. And it's part of every single person. People will always prefer the tried and true - that does not make it better. I said that. I've tried OSX, and I've learned PLENTY of new things (languages, Linux for a while, I've used OSX, iOS, Android, just about every OS that is out I've seen). Reluctance to learn for me only has to do with laziness. I'm not going to actively seek out a friend's macbook to learn the OS, and lacking the money, I won't be buying one. I never said anything about a reluctance to learn being my "problem," nor did I say I had a reluctance to learn new things. I specifically mentioned OSX, and if you think about the -reasons- that might be, it isn't too out of the ordinary. Linux? Free. Easy. OSX is not, and I'm not going to take a friend's computer for 2 weeks, or buy a macbook, just so I can learn OSX. I have definitely played with it when I can, and having done that, there are certain things about Windows I prefer.
Snap is kind of bundled into multitasking, that's why I said I slightly prefer it over OSX. And no matter what you say, I DO think the taskbar is nicer in Windows 7/8 than the OSX Dock. The dock isn't bad, but it isn't my style.
I'll certainly concede with launchpad. I just noticed in a review that they complimented it, and since I haven't heard anything bad, I assumed it didn't get the flack that windows 8 did.
You responded way more antagonistically to my post than you really needed to. My "ease of use" paragraph was literally to demonstrate that subjective opinions are subjective. I even admitted that it wasn't "perfect." The point wasn't to make a long argument over it, I was just reversing the roles. And it seems kind of silly that you've decided I have a problem with learning new things based on my reluctance to learn OSX, an operating system that would pretty much require me to spend several thousand dollars or borrow a friend's computer to get extensive use in.
I never said OSX was bad. I even admitted I see why people like it. All I said was that its draws weren't very attractive to me. I don't need you to explain why OSX is better, I can already see (from your perspective, at least for the most part since I don't know its nuances) what is so attractive about it (again, I already said that) Why be so antagonistic?
Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote: Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion.
Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion?
I'm not putting that much emphasis on dock. Seriously man? I really do respect you, you're way smarter than me in general tech, but please don't put words into my mouth. I said I prefer the taskbar to the dock, I didn't say taskbar vs dock is Windows 7 vs OSX. Pointing out one example isn't "putting too much emphasis" unless you are saying that I'm not going in depth into it, and I'm only quoting one example. The one example certainly doesn't encompass everything there is to say about the subject though.
Again, I feel like you're defending something against me that doesn't need to be defended. People (as far as I could see) don't buy OSX to make it like Windows. The presence of a third party app to make OSX behave like it isn't OSX isn't what persuades somebody to prefer that operating system. It's definitely a NICE addition (that Windows really doesn't employ that well), but again, not something that appeals to me. Why am I not allowed to prefer Windows, acknowledge that OSX is good, but not prefer it? Why is that a bad opinion?
On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote: Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion.
Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion?
I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion.
On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote: Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion.
Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion?
I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion.
Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more.
And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored.
first of all, why do you want a mac? if you just want one to want one, fine, but as you've been told it's overpriced and has compatibility issues with tons of things. However all blizzard games, and pretty much all websites, work just fine!
i don't recommend a portable for what you're talking about doing. gaming on laptops sucks and so does relying on wireless for everything. Of course the macbooks are very nice portables especially with the retina screen, if you are hungry for a portable computer it's a good choice but they do sometimes have heat problems as all portables do.
iMacs are nice machines typically but of course, you can't really upgrade them after purchase and you get much more bang for your buck with a PC. The big screen is GREAT for stream watching though, i will say that, especially for the high-tier tournaments with multiple streams.
Really the only advantage of macs for what you want to do, other than just having the "brand", is Applecare which you should buy if you buy the mac. Aside from the warranty and repairs and a+ customer service, you can call them up and get them to help you set up things like your AppleTV if you have any problems. . You can also slap windows7 on any new mac through boot camp and just enjoy both operating systems.
I recommend these sorts of computers and services to anybody who sucks at/hates computers and chances are with your hobbies, this doesn't describe you.
TLDR; Any new mac will provide what you want, at a high price. You can get identical equipment in a PC for a fraction of the price. Applecare is 100% worth it, if you go with the mac, and they will help you get everything setup if it is apple branded (so your time capsule, your appleTV, etc).
On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote: Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion.
Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion?
I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion.
Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more.
And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored.
That's the main reason I bought my 13" MBP in 2009 - for video editing, then graphic design and music editing. Though it probably sounds like I've drunken the Kool-Aid, I actually vastly prefer OSX for these purposes. It took some getting used to, but now it shits me that I can't multitask in Windows in the same way. I also ran SC2 on the MBP, mostly successfully (had a tendency to drop frames during the most congested times of team games, which in combination with the usual Australian internet latency, meant there was some difficulty playing competitively). I'd still be using it if someone hadn't spilled a glass of lemonade on it three weeks ago. I'm currently researching replacements, and though it's apparently common knowledge that Macs are not as "good value" as PC laptops, I keep finding myself back at the MBP - the few other laptops that offer the same processing power, portability (I don't want anything bigger than 15" or 3kg) and battery life (need to be able to use it for reasonably long hours for non-gaming reasons without plugging it into a wall) are either just as expensive or even more expensive, like that ASUS Zenbook linked in this thread, which you can't even get in Australia.
Not out to convert anyone, but would appreciate if people didn't try to convert me in return, or tell me that I'm a sucker for brand names or whatever. It's the only Apple product I (had) have aside from the old 1st gen iPod I got as a gift when I was in school (it lasted me six years, and I replaced the battery once; I'd replace it again to get it working, but the generic batteries are impossible to find now). I have an Android phone. I don't particularly like the iOS interface. But when my contract comes up in January and it's cheaper to run the iPhone 5 instead of the Galaxy S III, I'll give it some thought.
EDIT: If I were in the position of buying a desktop, I would in all likelihood get a PC.
You said you prefer the taskbar more than the OSX dock and you prefer the way that multitasking works in Windows.
In Windows, multitasking can be done through the taskbar (Aero Peek) and its the only way I can imagine anyone preferring the taskbar over the OSX dock. If that isn't a reason, then both are basically just glorified launchers and there is no reason to prefer one over the other except for aesthetics.
Multitasking in Windows is basically non-existent compared to OSX, especially if we're talking about devices that are using trackpads. You have Aero Peek, alt-tab, that 3D carousel and that's pretty much it. You have additional options in Windows 8 (i.e. win + tab for app switcher) but its still fairly clumsy, so obviously designed for content consumption, the duality of Metro Apps and desktop apps is confusing, and the dependence on hidden menus is problematic. Metro's (Win Phone and Win 8) love for long animations is also annoying.
The dock bounces you to where your app is, which is about the only thing its useful for. You have command + tab, which switches through your apps. You have Mission Control/Expose to go through your individual spaces and put whatever app you want in focus. You have spaces and full screen app switching, which is simply done through easy to use and understand touchpad gestures.
Multitasking just works on a Mac, especially if you have a trackpad. I have no idea how you can prefer multitasking on a Windows PC if you've given OSX a proper go. I haven't heard any good reasons before and judging by their increasing adoption rate compare to PCs I think a lot of people agree too.,
On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote: Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion.
Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion?
I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion.
Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more.
And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored.
That's the main reason I bought my 13" MBP in 2009 - for video editing, then graphic design and music editing. Though it probably sounds like I've drunken the Kool-Aid, I actually vastly prefer OSX for these purposes. It took some getting used to, but now it shits me that I can't multitask in Windows in the same way. I also ran SC2 on the MBP, mostly successfully (had a tendency to drop frames during the most congested times of team games, which in combination with the usual Australian internet latency, meant there was some difficulty playing competitively). I'd still be using it if someone hadn't spilled a glass of lemonade on it three weeks ago. I'm currently researching replacements, and though it's apparently common knowledge that Macs are not as "good value" as PC laptops, I keep finding myself back at the MBP - the few other laptops that offer the same processing power, portability (I don't want anything bigger than 15" or 3kg) and battery life (need to be able to use it for reasonably long hours for non-gaming reasons without plugging it into a wall) are either just as expensive or even more expensive, like that ASUS Zenbook linked in this thread, which you can't even get in Australia.
Not out to convert anyone, but would appreciate if people didn't try to convert me in return, or tell me that I'm a sucker for brand names or whatever.
I've actually always liked iMacs for video editing and photo editing and such. I had to stitch together a 5 minute video for physics my senior year on a project and it was a nightmare in Windows, so we actually ended up doing it on my partner's brother's MBP. For video/photo/music design stuff, the applications on OSX really are great.
The MBP w/RD is definitely the best computer on the market though, I'd agree with that any day. It's basically (imo) the notebook pretty much perfected (minus obvious power constraints etc). It has good performance, battery, aesthetic, etc. There really isn't a concerted effort from any of the Windows OEMs to match it. The dell XPS 15 and that Asus UX51VZ are good attempts, but they're first gen attempts at really matching the MBP, and they pretty much ended up like the original MBP, good but not perfect.
On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote: Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion.
Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion?
I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion.
Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more.
And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored.
That's the main reason I bought my 13" MBP in 2009 - for video editing, then graphic design and music editing. Though it probably sounds like I've drunken the Kool-Aid, I actually vastly prefer OSX for these purposes. It took some getting used to, but now it shits me that I can't multitask in Windows in the same way. I also ran SC2 on the MBP, mostly successfully (had a tendency to drop frames during the most congested times of team games, which in combination with the usual Australian internet latency, meant there was some difficulty playing competitively). I'd still be using it if someone hadn't spilled a glass of lemonade on it three weeks ago. I'm currently researching replacements, and though it's apparently common knowledge that Macs are not as "good value" as PC laptops, I keep finding myself back at the MBP - the few other laptops that offer the same processing power, portability (I don't want anything bigger than 15" or 3kg) and battery life (need to be able to use it for reasonably long hours for non-gaming reasons without plugging it into a wall) are either just as expensive or even more expensive, like that ASUS Zenbook linked in this thread, which you can't even get in Australia.
Not out to convert anyone, but would appreciate if people didn't try to convert me in return, or tell me that I'm a sucker for brand names or whatever.
I've actually always liked iMacs for video editing and photo editing and such. I had to stitch together a 5 minute video for physics my senior year on a project and it was a nightmare in Windows, so we actually ended up doing it on my partner's brother's MBP. For video/photo/music design stuff, the applications on OSX really are great.
Oh God, when I was in film school, we went through a couple of semesters editing on Windows fucking ME because, the tech supervisor said, it was a famously stable OS. Holy shit did we have issues. (And this was, like, 2007). It was such a relief to run AVID on OSX in the next year, although we still did all our sound editing on Windows. If someone told me to run AVID in Windows, I'd grumble really loudly.
On November 29 2012 12:09 Womwomwom wrote: Because its veering towards a "bad" opinion, something that frequently appears in Apple threads. I've seen those reasons frequently and they're not exactly right and frankly exists because people either aren't truly giving it a fair go, haven't used it for a large period of time, or are so reactionary that anything new wont be considered usable for them.
If your putting that much emphasis on the dock, you're doing it wrong.
I mean that multitasking comment is strange enough to me. Aero peak is required because Windows still doesn't natively support multiple desktops (and no third party program works cleanly). With Mac, you just use Spaces/mission control and be done with it. If you like Snap, you have a third party program called Cinch that, unlike most Windows add ons, works as smoothly as Snap on Windows. Basically anything you don't like about Mac OS, there is a non-free third party add on that adds well designed functionality that fits right in as if it was actually native.
What is a "bad opinion?" I don't understand how me stating that "the draws of OSX do not appeal to me" is a bad opinion.
Also, why is it not valid that I don't want to spend money to try it out? I have always played with my friend's MBP when we hang out, and we had iMacs in highschool (private school, music department), and I just don't care for the way the OS works. Sure, if I sat down with it for a month, I might come to like it, but I certainly have a basic knowledge of how it works. And that said, my opinion is that I prefer Windows more. At the same time, I understand why people would prefer OSX more. Why can't you accept the same thing in reverse? (Maybe you do, but I'm not getting that opinion). My opinion has nothing to do with whether Windows is better. I don't think I've ever said that, and if I have sorry. It has ALWAYS been that OSX is not as appealing to me. What makes that a bad opinion?
I think he meant that the majority opinion in Apple threads is usually that they are "bad", not that people have a "bad opinion". That Apple computers don't appeal to you is a more nuanced way of expressing that majority opinion.
Well as I understood/understand it at least, I would guess that the bad opinion is focused more on the "people not wanting to try it" at which point I talked about how my school uses iMacs for the entire music department, and that I used them for four years off and on (more so in my senior year when I was actually good and helping judge tracks etc.) And that time being spent, I don't particularly care for the large draws of OSX. I never bothered to sit down and figure out every nook and cranny of it, but I could get around well enough. Maybe I'm missing the key tiny feature that makes it amazing, but I don't think so. I don't think it's terrible like some people would say, I just happen to personally prefer windows more.
And what I will say is that iMacs absolutely rock compared to windows as far as music editing and such goes. Even garage band (which afaik isn't really serious musical editing stuff) is fun to play around with when you're bored.
That's the main reason I bought my 13" MBP in 2009 - for video editing, then graphic design and music editing. Though it probably sounds like I've drunken the Kool-Aid, I actually vastly prefer OSX for these purposes. It took some getting used to, but now it shits me that I can't multitask in Windows in the same way. I also ran SC2 on the MBP, mostly successfully (had a tendency to drop frames during the most congested times of team games, which in combination with the usual Australian internet latency, meant there was some difficulty playing competitively). I'd still be using it if someone hadn't spilled a glass of lemonade on it three weeks ago. I'm currently researching replacements, and though it's apparently common knowledge that Macs are not as "good value" as PC laptops, I keep finding myself back at the MBP - the few other laptops that offer the same processing power, portability (I don't want anything bigger than 15" or 3kg) and battery life (need to be able to use it for reasonably long hours for non-gaming reasons without plugging it into a wall) are either just as expensive or even more expensive, like that ASUS Zenbook linked in this thread, which you can't even get in Australia.
Not out to convert anyone, but would appreciate if people didn't try to convert me in return, or tell me that I'm a sucker for brand names or whatever.
I've actually always liked iMacs for video editing and photo editing and such. I had to stitch together a 5 minute video for physics my senior year on a project and it was a nightmare in Windows, so we actually ended up doing it on my partner's brother's MBP. For video/photo/music design stuff, the applications on OSX really are great.
Oh God, when I was in film school, we went through a couple of semesters editing on Windows fucking ME because, the tech supervisor said, it was a famously stable OS. Holy shit did we have issues. (And this was, like, 2007). It was such a relief to run AVID on OSX in the next year, although we still did all our sound editing on Windows. If someone told me to run AVID in Windows, I'd grumble really loudly.
Heh. The thread is starting to get derailed (starting lawl), OP if you're still reading do you have any other questions? We're probably going to get your thread closed for being off topic soon
On November 29 2012 04:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: People also fail to mention that OSX is much easier to navigate/use than Windows.
That seems awfully subjective.
Why? From personal experience I can attest that OSX is much simpler than Windows. There are also many articles/essay written about the ease of use of Apple products. Here's a perfect example, you download two programs in Windows and OSX, to install it in Windows you have to select a designation for the program to end up in, choose installation settings etc... in OSX you simply drag an icon from one place to a folder in a single window and that's it!
That's funny, SC2, Youtube, VLC, they seem to run exactly the same to me whether I'm using an Apple computer or a PC.
Fwiw, it's unfair to say that the Mac desktops use mobile graphics cards. You're referring to the iMac, an all-in-one that uses a 650M-680M. Other all-in-ones usually have not much better than a 640M, and I don't know of one that sells with a desktop card (it wouldn't fit in the monitor/base, and would be impossible to cool).
Please. Go on ebay, and you'll see GPUs like the 8800, a 3+ year old, completely outdated POS, selling for over $100 used because people want to upgrade their GPU and going to an 8800 for $100 is a better value than anything else. It's terrible.
The hardware on apple is great, but the price and hardware limitations is just ridiculous on them. No one is saying Apple makes bad products, the problem is the pricing. For $3000 I could buy a $1000 intel flagship CPU and just have the best computer possible, but to apple that means a computer that is competitive to a sub-$500 custom build or $1200 alienware.
That said, there are plenty of reasons to buy Apple. For certain coding work, Apple is the way to go with it's linux based system (and ubuntu.. the technology isn't there yet/meme). A lot of professionals, IT included, are better off with Apple. Apple software also is great, and even though they are assholes with how they make it so only apple plugs into apple, when you got a couple apple products, they work together great. And all laptops are overpriced, so Apple is a competitive choice when it comes to laptops.
But if OP is just playing starcraft and doing general computer usage, and/or a home theater set-up with or without light gaming like SC2, Apple is not the way to go.
Fwiw, it's unfair to say that the Mac desktops use mobile graphics cards. You're referring to the iMac, an all-in-one that uses a 650M-680M. Other all-in-ones usually have not much better than a 640M, and I don't know of one that sells with a desktop card (it wouldn't fit in the monitor/base, and would be impossible to cool).
Please. Go on ebay, and you'll see GPUs like the 8800, a 3+ year old, completely outdated POS, selling for over $100 used because people want to upgrade their GPU and going to an 8800 for $100 is a better value than anything else. It's terrible.
The hardware on apple is great, but the price and hardware limitations is just ridiculous on them. No one is saying Apple makes bad products, the problem is the pricing. For $3000 I could buy a $1000 intel flagship CPU and just have the best computer possible, but to apple that means a computer that is competitive to a sub-$500 custom build or $1200 alienware.
That said, there are plenty of reasons to buy Apple. For certain coding work, Apple is the way to go with it's linux based system (and ubuntu.. the technology isn't there yet/meme). A lot of professionals, IT included, are better off with Apple. Apple software also is great, and even though they are assholes with how they make it so only apple plugs into apple, when you got a couple apple products, they work together great. And all laptops are overpriced, so Apple is a competitive choice when it comes to laptops.
But if OP is just playing starcraft and doing general computer usage, and/or a home theater set-up with or without light gaming like SC2, Apple is not the way to go.
Wait what? The point is that a desktop GPU doesn't fit in an all-in-one, whether its an iMac or a Windows all-in-one... I don't see how the OS makes a difference with physical space constraints...
On November 29 2012 12:58 Womwomwom wrote: You said you prefer the taskbar more than the OSX dock and you prefer the way that multitasking works in Windows.
In Windows, multitasking can be done through the taskbar (Aero Peek) and its the only way I can imagine anyone preferring the taskbar over the OSX dock. If that isn't a reason, then both are basically just glorified launchers and there is no reason to prefer one over the other except for aesthetics.
Multitasking in Windows is basically non-existent compared to OSX, especially if we're talking about devices that are using trackpads. You have Aero Peek, alt-tab, that 3D carousel and that's pretty much it. You have additional options in Windows 8 (i.e. win + tab for app switcher) but its still fairly clumsy, so obviously designed for content consumption, the duality of Metro Apps and desktop apps is confusing, and the dependence on hidden menus is problematic. Metro's (Win Phone and Win 8) love for long animations is also annoying.
The dock bounces you to where your app is, which is about the only thing its useful for. You have command + tab, which switches through your apps. You have Mission Control/Expose to go through your individual spaces and put whatever app you want in focus. You have spaces and full screen app switching, which is simply done through easy to use and understand touchpad gestures.
Multitasking just works on a Mac, especially if you have a trackpad. I have no idea how you can prefer multitasking on a Windows PC if you've given OSX a proper go. I haven't heard any good reasons before and judging by their increasing adoption rate compare to PCs I think a lot of people agree too.,
Great. That's fine, wonderful, and dandy.
I disagree. I just flat out disagree. I'm sorry if that offends you. I literally do not like how the dock bounces around, changes when you move the mouse to it. It just doesn't work in my head. I don't know why, I can see why other people like it, I don't. The opinion doesn't have to make sense to you, but that doesn't make it any less valid. In my mind's eye, I honestly can't understand why people would want it to do that. But I know people who do, and I know people who swear by it. Do I agree? No. Does that make it less valid? No. Why you won't accept that somebody could like Windows more baffles me.
I have given OSX a proper go. "I have no idea how you can prefer multitasking on OSX if you've given a Windows PC a proper go." And why I don't think that's true, seeing as I understand why somebody might like it, I can still say it. Does that make it wrong? Not necessarily. Why? Because there is no objective chart that can quantitatively measure "ease of use." Even the most well renowned Operating system reviewer in the world (if such a thing exists) is stating his opinion.
I'm saying that all of those wonderful things about OSX that you're talking about don't appeal to me. How do you know how my mind works and what I do or don't like? How can you objectively tell me what is best for me? You can state for hours on end I'm sure about the advantages OSX has over Windows, but at the end of the day I don't care for them, and you have no right to tell me that my self-made opinion is wrong.
Multitasking in Windows is basically non-existent compared to OSX, especially if we're talking about devices that are using trackpads. You have Aero Peek, alt-tab, that 3D carousel and that's pretty much it. You have additional options in Windows 8 (i.e. win + tab for app switcher) but its still fairly clumsy, so obviously designed for content consumption, the duality of Metro Apps and desktop apps is confusing, and the dependence on hidden menus is problematic. Metro's (Win Phone and Win 8) love for long animations is also annoying.
The dock bounces you to where your app is, which is about the only thing its useful for. You have command + tab, which switches through your apps. You have Mission Control/Expose to go through your individual spaces and put whatever app you want in focus. You have spaces and full screen app switching, which is simply done through easy to use and understand touchpad gestures.
Let's see how subjective this is. Please point to qualitative data that makes multitasking in Windows "non-existent."
"Easy to use and understand" is again, subjective. Whether or not I agree (I actually do) is irrelevant, because it is still subjective.
If it's so hard for you to accept that I can be aware of at least the majority of the things that you can tell me about OSX that make it magically better than windows, and still disagree with you, please at least just agree to disagree. I don't know how many other ways I can state "I'm aware of these things, but I politely disagree, even though I see why some might prefer it" to you.
You can go through a million different reasons why an apple is healthier than a lemon, but at the end of the day it is still an apple, and the lemon is still a lemon. And some people will STILL prefer lemons, even if you have no idea why they like the sour taste, and the lemon juice strong enough to destroy your enamel.
Windows Phone appstore is growing faster than the other appstores (and grew significantly faster than Android did, despite having to compete with two ecosystems). And while that is developers and not consumers, Windows Phone sales are also significantly increased compared to in the past, which tends to mean that at least some members of iOS and Android are switching to WP8. Does that mean that WP8 is better than the other solution(s) that has ~90% of the market gobbled up? Not necessarily.
On November 29 2012 14:22 Alryk wrote: You can go through a million different reasons why an apple is healthier than a lemon, but at the end of the day it is still an apple, and the lemon is still a lemon. And some people will STILL prefer lemons, even if you have no idea why they like the sour taste, and the lemon juice strong enough to destroy your enamel.
Lemons objectively taste bad, hence your argument is invalid. You must be mentally deficient if you think a lemon tastes better than an apple.
On November 29 2012 14:22 Alryk wrote: You can go through a million different reasons why an apple is healthier than a lemon, but at the end of the day it is still an apple, and the lemon is still a lemon. And some people will STILL prefer lemons, even if you have no idea why they like the sour taste, and the lemon juice strong enough to destroy your enamel.
Lemons objectively taste bad, hence your argument is invalid. You must be mentally deficient if you think a lemon tastes better than an apple.
You're welcome to disagree. If you want to put forth an opinion, be ready to defend that opinion with actual reasons. Sorry if I'm being rude but literally everyone responds in bad faith when talking about Apple products. If you're defending your opinion with mere emotion then well...
And yes, gesture based multitasking is objectively more user friendly if done properly. Three finger swipe left/right to go to left/right space is objectively more intuitive than keyboard shortcuts. There is nothing subjective about this, its exactly like turning a page.
Its hard for me to understand because close to no one on Teamliquid has actually explained when they think OSX is deficient to Windows in many areas including the so-called multitasking and productivity. Many of the reasons, if they do provide them, are either completely wrong or show a lack of understanding.
I own and use both Apples (2011 MacBook Pro, 2011 21" iMac) and a PC (HP w/ i7 etc.). I may be a bit backward, but I use the macs for business and PC for pleasure/artsy shit, and I believe it's the way to go.
First off, before I got my PC I was playing SC2 on my macbook. In OSX, even with everything on low I would get bad framerates, long load times and generally unimpressive performance. While I didn't try it, I read in several places that people who installed Windows on a Boot Camp partition had significantly better performance playing on macbooks, than people like me who played the OS/X client. My brother just got a brand new 27 inch iMac, and, while it runs the game fine, my year old PC still loads way faster when we play each other (100% confirmed), and I believe my game looks better and runs smoother (though I cannot confirm this part with 100% certainty, as my bro lives in another state, so I can't exactly look over his shoulder.
On the other hand, in the year I've had my PC, I've reformatted it twice to get rid of viruses and malware, despite having antivirus installed and running and using malwarebytes, and being careful about downloads, never using torrents, and not using it for porn.
The macs have no antivirus/anti-malware and have never had a problem with them. They boot up quickly, the battery lasts longer than any PC laptop I've ever had (and has not degraded near as fast as my PC batteries all did). You can close the lid and it goes into a very efficient standby mode that wakes up almost instantly. It handles backups in an intelligent way without third party software. It runs Office and all my other business software. Before I switched to mac for business, I had a string of laptops die on me for various mysterious reasons--3 in a 2 year period (granted, they were cheapos that my former boss bought).
TL;DR macs are high quality, stable, less prone to viruses and offer intuitive back-up solutions. If I had to have a work computer that just could not fail, I would invest in a mac (as long as it ran the software I need). For gaming and general entertainment, if it won't matter that I have to occasionally wipe the HD and reinstall, I'll always pick a PC.
On November 29 2012 16:24 Womwomwom wrote: You're welcome to disagree. If you want to put forth an opinion, be ready to defend that opinion with actual reasons. Sorry if I'm being rude but literally everyone responds in bad faith when talking about Apple products.
Its hard for me to understand because close to no one on Teamliquid has actually explained when they think OSX is deficient to Windows in many areas. Many of the reasons, if they do provide them, are either completely wrong or show a lack of understanding why so and so behaves like so.
Except I didn't respond in bad faith I even agreed that I vastly prefer macs to windows for specific things (music which i did for a while, video/photos) To me, it isn't so much that Windows is by and far better than OSX so much as I don't see huge benefits for either (if anything honestly OSX has huge benefits in media productivity, but I'm not studying anything related to that), and being a gamer, I gravitate towards Windows. I don't necessarily think OSX is deficient as for why I prefer Windows, it's more of a combination of minor things along with the fact that (in my eye), it's biggest benefit doesn't apply to me.
Eh. It's a gaming website. A lot of people are going to be very hardware oriented, which tbh Apple does not excel at value-wise
For Windows 7. WIN + NUM to select the program in the taskbar to open. Dexpot to mimic workspaces.
Three-finger swipe is cool, yes, I get that idea. But swipe is crap if you need to move your hand off the typing position. I rebound workspaces to work with ALT+NUM, infinitely better than gestures, because now I don't have to move my hands off the typing positions to move around, and I can use the full range of the pointer, instead of having the pointer stuck while I'm swiping.
As for the OP, you can invest into either ecosystems can get what you want. It turns out that Apple makes it very straightforward because they produce all the parts, so you just go to the store and pick up everything you want in one go. If you want to set up a media center with windows, you'll have to research a bit more, but potentially save money.
If you want a mac, then you use a mac. If you want windows, then you use a windows machine.
Saying that a feature doesn't exist in either ecosystem is bull. There is always an alternative available.
I would go for: WLAN Router with GigabitSwitch MediaCenter PC with Win7 and about 4TB internal Harddrive (4x1, 2x2) and BluRay Drive at Living Room connected to main TV and Audio System via HDMI or a soundcard of YOUR TASTE (not Apples) It can be build as low powerconsumption and low noise as you like. Logitech WirelessKeyboard + Touchpad ( very good :D ) You can use it just like a normal PC (Girlfriend friendly...not being offensive..just...practical) You can store all your Media on this PC. Connect the laptop dockingstation via HDMI/DVI to one TV and ethernet to router and use a Wireless (not BlueTooth since it has low range) Keyboard as well. If you want to have full Access to all sources on both TVs you can also go for an additional Raspberry Pi computer running Fedora Linux, connected via Ethernet. They are fully 1080p able and cost 35$ (NON RTR) (For bedroom TV) Or you can set up a network of HDMI cable and switching Boxes, which will be evenly expensive. I dont believe in Wireless Video
This will get you a fully scaleable setup with a backup windows computer should your Laptop crash or be stolen.
If you're deciding between Macs, I would suggest that you consider how much you will move your computer around. Since you're speaking about home use, I guess the answer will be "not very much at all".
The Macbooks are all very nice machines, I own a 15 inch Retina myself – but you're paying a lot of money for the mobility. And although the Retina display is in fact the best notebook screen you can buy today, it's still a notebook screen: It's small, and without a laptop stand the viewing angle is uncomfortable for longer media consumption and gaming. At home you will end up hooking it up to an external display anyway.
That leaves the Mac mini, iMac and MacPro. The latter is due for a big upgrade next year, nobody knows when and you will be ill advised to buy a MacPro until then. The Mac mini doesn't have a discrete GPU so it's out as well.
Now with the iMac you have to options: Pull the trigger now if you want a DVD drive and the option to upgrade the internal HDD, or wait for the new one (the 27 inch will ship in "december", the 21 inch tomorrow but i don't think the 21 inch is what you want). The new iMac is all around faster, has the new FusionDrive tech that merges a SSD and HDD via software, and the display is fused to the glass greatly reducing glare.
And it's jaw-dropping beatiful.
No matter If you decide to purchase a Mac or not, I would get an Apple TV if I were you. You already have an iPhone and an iPad, assuming you got the twitch.tv App installed on either or both of them here's the set-up process to watch live StarCraft in your living room:
1. Insert HDMI cable into Apple TV. 2. Enter your WiFi password. 3. Press the AirPlay button in twitch.
This will take you between 30 seconds to 2 minutes, depending on the length and complexity of your WiFi password since you're required to insert it with the IR remote (thankfully, only once – beyond that point you can use your iPhone or iPad as a remote).
Your plans and description suggest that money isn't a big issue, and you already have an iTunes account – so movie rentals are probably another fun use for you. Again, it just works (enter account info and press one button). The back catalogue could be bigger, yes, but chances are that your local movie rental store doesn't have everything in stock as well.
Granted, Apple TV is limited in use (especially outside the US) and Apple itself still runs this as a "hobby". But if you're already invested in the Apple ecosystem it's hard to not recommend it at just 99 bucks. Besides Airplay and movie rental there are some (more or less neglectable) gimmicks, but these two features alone are worth the price.
What I don't get from your OP is the following: You want to connect both screens to an Apple TV? I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.
On November 29 2012 17:29 plgElwood wrote: I would go for: WLAN Router with GigabitSwitch MediaCenter PC with Win7 and about 4TB internal Harddrive (4x1, 2x2) and BluRay Drive at Living Room connected to main TV and Audio System via HDMI or a soundcard of YOUR TASTE (not Apples) It can be build as low powerconsumption and low noise as you like. Logitech WirelessKeyboard + Touchpad ( very good :D ) You can use it just like a normal PC (Girlfriend friendly...not being offensive..just...practical) You can store all your Media on this PC. Connect the laptop dockingstation via HDMI/DVI to one TV and ethernet to router and use a Wireless (not BlueTooth since it has low range) Keyboard as well. If you want to have full Access to all sources on both TVs you can also go for an additional Raspberry Pi computer running Fedora Linux, connected via Ethernet. They are fully 1080p able and cost 35$ (NON RTR) (For bedroom TV) Or you can set up a network of HDMI cable and switching Boxes, which will be evenly expensive. I dont believe in Wireless Video
This will get you a fully scaleable setup with a backup windows computer should your Laptop crash or be stolen.
Hey OP, heres a useful response. Next time don't go with a title like "Applefying" to avoid an Apple vs Windows shitstorm.
Of course this media pc setup won't run SC2, in this setup you would need a desktop to play SC2 on and a small pc for your TV. You will be able to access all your files on your desktop from the TV. I run xbmc on my TV computer and its amazing, using smartphone as a remote etc.
An alternative is building a tiny computer that only has the power to playback 1080p, then keep all your media on your desktop and get at it over the network. Ive only ever heard of these, haven't built one so not sure how great they are.
On November 29 2012 17:29 plgElwood wrote: I would go for: WLAN Router with GigabitSwitch MediaCenter PC with Win7 and about 4TB internal Harddrive (4x1, 2x2) and BluRay Drive at Living Room connected to main TV and Audio System via HDMI or a soundcard of YOUR TASTE (not Apples) It can be build as low powerconsumption and low noise as you like. Logitech WirelessKeyboard + Touchpad ( very good :D ) You can use it just like a normal PC (Girlfriend friendly...not being offensive..just...practical) You can store all your Media on this PC. Connect the laptop dockingstation via HDMI/DVI to one TV and ethernet to router and use a Wireless (not BlueTooth since it has low range) Keyboard as well. If you want to have full Access to all sources on both TVs you can also go for an additional Raspberry Pi computer running Fedora Linux, connected via Ethernet. They are fully 1080p able and cost 35$ (NON RTR) (For bedroom TV) Or you can set up a network of HDMI cable and switching Boxes, which will be evenly expensive. I dont believe in Wireless Video
This will get you a fully scaleable setup with a backup windows computer should your Laptop crash or be stolen.
Hey OP, heres a useful response. Next time don't go with a title like "Applefying" to avoid an Apple vs Windows shitstorm.
Of course this media pc setup won't run SC2, in this setup you would need a desktop to play SC2 on and a small pc for your TV. You will be able to access all your files on your desktop from the TV. I run xbmc on my TV computer and its amazing, using smartphone as a remote etc.
Finally a useful post, Apple vs Windows seems to be a hot subject! I've worked as a project manager in the IT-business, that's why I use PC for work. The reason I'm thinking about Apple is the design of the new iMac 27" and the MacBook Pro with retina screen.
After reading all posts and talking to various people I've realized that I won't be able to have a multimedia solution where I can watch movies on the TV of my choice(wirelessly).
If I really need to connect with a cable I'll use Apple. THEY ARE PRETTY!
On November 29 2012 17:29 plgElwood wrote: I would go for: WLAN Router with GigabitSwitch MediaCenter PC with Win7 and about 4TB internal Harddrive (4x1, 2x2) and BluRay Drive at Living Room connected to main TV and Audio System via HDMI or a soundcard of YOUR TASTE (not Apples) It can be build as low powerconsumption and low noise as you like. Logitech WirelessKeyboard + Touchpad ( very good :D ) You can use it just like a normal PC (Girlfriend friendly...not being offensive..just...practical) You can store all your Media on this PC. Connect the laptop dockingstation via HDMI/DVI to one TV and ethernet to router and use a Wireless (not BlueTooth since it has low range) Keyboard as well. If you want to have full Access to all sources on both TVs you can also go for an additional Raspberry Pi computer running Fedora Linux, connected via Ethernet. They are fully 1080p able and cost 35$ (NON RTR) (For bedroom TV) Or you can set up a network of HDMI cable and switching Boxes, which will be evenly expensive. I dont believe in Wireless Video
This will get you a fully scaleable setup with a backup windows computer should your Laptop crash or be stolen.
Hey OP, heres a useful response. Next time don't go with a title like "Applefying" to avoid an Apple vs Windows shitstorm.
Of course this media pc setup won't run SC2, in this setup you would need a desktop to play SC2 on and a small pc for your TV. You will be able to access all your files on your desktop from the TV. I run xbmc on my TV computer and its amazing, using smartphone as a remote etc.
Finally a useful post, Apple vs Windows seems to be a hot subject! I've worked as a project manager in the IT-business, that's why I use PC for work. The reason I'm thinking about Apple is the design of the new iMac 27" and the MacBook Pro with retina screen.
After reading all posts and talking to various people I've realized that I won't be able to have a multimedia solution where I can watch movies on the TV of my choice(wirelessly).
If I really need to connect with a cable I'll use Apple. THEY ARE PRETTY!
Fair enough. The lack of wireless media solutions really disappointed me as well when I went to build my media setup.
On November 29 2012 17:29 plgElwood wrote: I would go for: WLAN Router with GigabitSwitch MediaCenter PC with Win7 and about 4TB internal Harddrive (4x1, 2x2) and BluRay Drive at Living Room connected to main TV and Audio System via HDMI or a soundcard of YOUR TASTE (not Apples) It can be build as low powerconsumption and low noise as you like. Logitech WirelessKeyboard + Touchpad ( very good :D ) You can use it just like a normal PC (Girlfriend friendly...not being offensive..just...practical) You can store all your Media on this PC. Connect the laptop dockingstation via HDMI/DVI to one TV and ethernet to router and use a Wireless (not BlueTooth since it has low range) Keyboard as well. If you want to have full Access to all sources on both TVs you can also go for an additional Raspberry Pi computer running Fedora Linux, connected via Ethernet. They are fully 1080p able and cost 35$ (NON RTR) (For bedroom TV) Or you can set up a network of HDMI cable and switching Boxes, which will be evenly expensive. I dont believe in Wireless Video
This will get you a fully scaleable setup with a backup windows computer should your Laptop crash or be stolen.
Hey OP, heres a useful response. Next time don't go with a title like "Applefying" to avoid an Apple vs Windows shitstorm.
Of course this media pc setup won't run SC2, in this setup you would need a desktop to play SC2 on and a small pc for your TV. You will be able to access all your files on your desktop from the TV. I run xbmc on my TV computer and its amazing, using smartphone as a remote etc.
Finally a useful post, Apple vs Windows seems to be a hot subject! I've worked as a project manager in the IT-business, that's why I use PC for work. The reason I'm thinking about Apple is the design of the new iMac 27" and the MacBook Pro with retina screen.
After reading all posts and talking to various people I've realized that I won't be able to have a multimedia solution where I can watch movies on the TV of my choice(wirelessly).
If I really need to connect with a cable I'll use Apple. THEY ARE PRETTY!
Once you go Mac you won't want to go back. They're just too fantastic.
On November 29 2012 17:29 plgElwood wrote: I would go for: WLAN Router with GigabitSwitch MediaCenter PC with Win7 and about 4TB internal Harddrive (4x1, 2x2) and BluRay Drive at Living Room connected to main TV and Audio System via HDMI or a soundcard of YOUR TASTE (not Apples) It can be build as low powerconsumption and low noise as you like. Logitech WirelessKeyboard + Touchpad ( very good :D ) You can use it just like a normal PC (Girlfriend friendly...not being offensive..just...practical) You can store all your Media on this PC. Connect the laptop dockingstation via HDMI/DVI to one TV and ethernet to router and use a Wireless (not BlueTooth since it has low range) Keyboard as well. If you want to have full Access to all sources on both TVs you can also go for an additional Raspberry Pi computer running Fedora Linux, connected via Ethernet. They are fully 1080p able and cost 35$ (NON RTR) (For bedroom TV) Or you can set up a network of HDMI cable and switching Boxes, which will be evenly expensive. I dont believe in Wireless Video
This will get you a fully scaleable setup with a backup windows computer should your Laptop crash or be stolen.
Hey OP, heres a useful response. Next time don't go with a title like "Applefying" to avoid an Apple vs Windows shitstorm.
Of course this media pc setup won't run SC2, in this setup you would need a desktop to play SC2 on and a small pc for your TV. You will be able to access all your files on your desktop from the TV. I run xbmc on my TV computer and its amazing, using smartphone as a remote etc.
Finally a useful post, Apple vs Windows seems to be a hot subject! I've worked as a project manager in the IT-business, that's why I use PC for work. The reason I'm thinking about Apple is the design of the new iMac 27" and the MacBook Pro with retina screen.
After reading all posts and talking to various people I've realized that I won't be able to have a multimedia solution where I can watch movies on the TV of my choice(wirelessly).
If I really need to connect with a cable I'll use Apple. THEY ARE PRETTY!
Most people just buy a dedicated HTPC if they want to use their TV to play music, watch movies and stuff. It costs essentially, $300 for the system, then a bit more for wireless keyboard and mouse, and how you want to run networking, wirelessly, cabled or powerline.
The idea for Windows is to use their media center to stream content from your desktop to your HTPC, and use Remote Desktop Connection to look at your desktop if you need to do that.
On wireless video, with a Wireless N router, I can stream decently from my wired desktop while walking around in my apartment on my laptop, with the video. Of course, my router and computer is pretty bad, but if I had a wired connection, the stream is perfect.
A lot of the things in that list are extraneous really. If you had a good motherboard, it'll have all the necessary outputs, and you just need to get the right cables to connect to the TV. Sound cards are rather useless in this application, and you can just stream directly from your desktop. The internal storage space doesn't need to be huge in the HTPC, as you can always hook up an external too.
The "reasonable" debate around Apple and Windows here would be which one fits your overall lifestyle and integrates well with what you have. Lifestyle being how you want things to look, how much you want things to cost, and so on. The difference is usually always the price. With Apple, you can get instant one-click integration, but at a much higher cost than simply setting everything up yourself. Some people like the no-hassle, some people like the learning experience. It also essentially comes down to maximum performance per dollar, as in, you can do the same with less money, but it's not all done for you (i.e. you can go out and find a really nice case and internal parts and monitor, or you can let Apple do that for you).
To be honest as well, you could just as easily buy a dock for your laptop with connections to the TV, so when you dock the screen shows up on the TV and use your phone to control the laptop from the couch or something. Lots and lots of solutions.
I might've missed this, but could you describe what you have right now? All I see is what you're looking for.
I set up a HTPC : 4TB HDD /8GB RAM 3.3ghz I3 , Asus mATX Board in LianLi case with Seasonic PSU for 600€ it also has an GF 620 or something, even could handle a more Powerful graphicscard. Performancewise it kicks ass. I dont know what Software you are working with, but it will most likely be x86 and Windows dependent so i would go for these two on every Computer i buy to have a backup for worst case Scenarios (important meeting coming up in 12 hours just one Presentation to fix and a broken Laptop..)
I will not get why people want "wireless everything" Are you moving your TV arround this much? Why not take a Cable?
On November 29 2012 07:46 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: There are 4 reasons I went with Apple. 1. I was bored of the upkeep involved in running a linux desktop. 2. I wanted a nice computer, and I wanted to try OSX. 3. I was tired of massive noisy mid towers and cheap monitors. 4. I was about done with gaming, so I was done chasing ultimate performance per dollar.
1. You don't need to upkeep, Linux users just take satisfaction in being able to customize, update and tinker. 2. A nice computer doesn't require an Apple, and that's what virtualization is for. I've been curious about OSX too, but I didn't need to buy anything for it. 3. So buy a better case, better fans, and a better monitor? My computer is hardly noticeable and it's like a foot away from me. 4. This is one reason I cannot commit full-time to OSX (even if I wanted to), or to Linux. Right now, I'm dual-booting Windows 7 and Ubuntu; generally, I'd have no reason to keep using Windows if I didn't still game. OSX on the other hand is too easy and boring as an operating system. I take more pride in my PC knowledge than to use something that is so basic.
On November 29 2012 17:29 plgElwood wrote: I would go for: WLAN Router with GigabitSwitch MediaCenter PC with Win7 and about 4TB internal Harddrive (4x1, 2x2) and BluRay Drive at Living Room connected to main TV and Audio System via HDMI or a soundcard of YOUR TASTE (not Apples) It can be build as low powerconsumption and low noise as you like. Logitech WirelessKeyboard + Touchpad ( very good :D ) You can use it just like a normal PC (Girlfriend friendly...not being offensive..just...practical) You can store all your Media on this PC. Connect the laptop dockingstation via HDMI/DVI to one TV and ethernet to router and use a Wireless (not BlueTooth since it has low range) Keyboard as well. If you want to have full Access to all sources on both TVs you can also go for an additional Raspberry Pi computer running Fedora Linux, connected via Ethernet. They are fully 1080p able and cost 35$ (NON RTR) (For bedroom TV) Or you can set up a network of HDMI cable and switching Boxes, which will be evenly expensive. I dont believe in Wireless Video
This will get you a fully scaleable setup with a backup windows computer should your Laptop crash or be stolen.
Hey OP, heres a useful response. Next time don't go with a title like "Applefying" to avoid an Apple vs Windows shitstorm.
Of course this media pc setup won't run SC2, in this setup you would need a desktop to play SC2 on and a small pc for your TV. You will be able to access all your files on your desktop from the TV. I run xbmc on my TV computer and its amazing, using smartphone as a remote etc.
Finally a useful post, Apple vs Windows seems to be a hot subject! I've worked as a project manager in the IT-business, that's why I use PC for work. The reason I'm thinking about Apple is the design of the new iMac 27" and the MacBook Pro with retina screen.
After reading all posts and talking to various people I've realized that I won't be able to have a multimedia solution where I can watch movies on the TV of my choice(wirelessly).
If I really need to connect with a cable I'll use Apple. THEY ARE PRETTY!
Most people just buy a dedicated HTPC if they want to use their TV to play music, watch movies and stuff. It costs essentially, $300 for the system, then a bit more for wireless keyboard and mouse, and how you want to run networking, wirelessly, cabled or powerline.
The idea for Windows is to use their media center to stream content from your desktop to your HTPC, and use Remote Desktop Connection to look at your desktop if you need to do that.
On wireless video, with a Wireless N router, I can stream decently from my wired desktop while walking around in my apartment on my laptop, with the video. Of course, my router and computer is pretty bad, but if I had a wired connection, the stream is perfect.
A lot of the things in that list are extraneous really. If you had a good motherboard, it'll have all the necessary outputs, and you just need to get the right cables to connect to the TV. Sound cards are rather useless in this application, and you can just stream directly from your desktop. The internal storage space doesn't need to be huge in the HTPC, as you can always hook up an external too.
The "reasonable" debate around Apple and Windows here would be which one fits your overall lifestyle and integrates well with what you have. Lifestyle being how you want things to look, how much you want things to cost, and so on. The difference is usually always the price. With Apple, you can get instant one-click integration, but at a much higher cost than simply setting everything up yourself. Some people like the no-hassle, some people like the learning experience. It also essentially comes down to maximum performance per dollar, as in, you can do the same with less money, but it's not all done for you (i.e. you can go out and find a really nice case and internal parts and monitor, or you can let Apple do that for you).
To be honest as well, you could just as easily buy a dock for your laptop with connections to the TV, so when you dock the screen shows up on the TV and use your phone to control the laptop from the couch or something. Lots and lots of solutions.
I might've missed this, but could you describe what you have right now? All I see is what you're looking for.
At the moment I'm using a Lenovo T520 with 180GB SSD, i7, 8GB ram and NVIDIA NVS 4200M. A standard work computer. I have a docking station connected to my TV and speakers. It works pretty good, but I want a good solution that will work on 2 different TVs without having to move my computer, and I also wanna switch to Apple because of their design. And how's the quality of the movies from AppleTV? Does it really suck as much as ppl say?
my biggest problem with mac is not the OS or the hardware over priced etc but the cooling is seriously lacking if you are going to do some hardware demanding games.
Even if the temp is fine, it won't be as cool as it would be on other brands except for some horrid brands like HP
EPT
I even agreed that I vastly prefer macs to windows for specific things (music which i did for a while, video/photos) To me, it isn't so much that Windows is by and far better than OSX so much as I don't see huge benefits for either (if anything honestly OSX has huge benefits in media productivity, but I'm not studying anything related to that), and being a gamer, I gravitate towards Windows. I don't necessarily think OSX is deficient as for why I prefer Windows, it's more of a combination of minor things along with the fact that (in my eye), it's biggest benefit doesn't apply to me. 
![[image loading]](http://images.apple.com/imac/images/hero.png)
