EPTThe Ultimate Mouse Thread - Page 213
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
On May 03 2015 00:15 SixStrings wrote: Hey guys, I bought a "Sharkoon Gaming" mouse from Amazon for less than 15 € and I like it, but I'm annoyed by intrusive blue LED and the fact that it looks really grody and greasy after a couple of months of use. So I'm trying to find a mouse without obnoxious lights that's not too expensive, is prerably black and doesn't suck when it comes to precision. Anyone? Claw style, maybe one or two extra buttons. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
Opening the thing up usually works through screws on the bottom. They are likely hidden behind the mouse feet. You can feel the positions by rubbing on the mouse feet. After you've opened it up, you should be able to fix that LED issue. The LED might have a cable connecting it to the rest of the mouse and then you just pull or cut that cable. If it's soldered directly onto the tiny board inside the mouse, what you can do is put electrical tape on the see-through part of the top shell where the light shines through. I thought of electrical tape because you might have it and because it should completely block out light. When the mouse is open, cleaning it thoroughly might be easy. A possibly neat trick for opening the mouse up is that if the screws are under the mouse feet, you can punch through those feet with your screw-driver instead of pulling them off. If you pull the feet off, they will likely get warped badly enough that the mouse won't glide well anymore after you glue them back on. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On May 04 2015 04:25 trifecta wrote: I'm basically in the same boat. My middle click wheel died a couple days ago and I'm back on my old mx518. The DA 2013 shape is perfect for me. I've tried similar shapes like the steelseries sensei but it wasn't the same (also didn't like that sensor). 1. What's your grip style? mainly palm, sometimes palm/claw hybrid 2. What's your sensitivity? low+medium (400-800 dpi) 3. What's your maximum budget? ~60 USD 4. Do you want additional buttons? yes, two side buttons; right handed 5. What games do you play? a bit of everything 6. Do you mind angle snapping? ? Liked DA 2013 feel; did not like steel series sensei; tried recent logitech stuff and it was alright 7. Other relevant information: priorities: Build quality/QC (got burned by the classic razer dying a few months after warranty expires); something close to DA shape; good side button placement/shape Thanks I was going to wait some months, for obvious reasons, to post that I ended up getting a Zowie EC1-A. The click action feels quite different from the DA, but other than that the two handle very similarly. The weight is extremely close in the two and the distribution of that weight is functionally identical when in use. The right "hip" of the EC1-A is slightly wider and thus could remove the need for the "floating" pinky, depending on your hand size. The grip and feel of it is quite comfortable and intuitive. Simply letting your hand "fall" onto the mouse puts everything where it needs to be, which is more than can be said of many mice I've tried out recently. Big upside is absolutely no drivers whatsoever on this mouse. It cuts down the customizability a bit, but it also means you don't have to run shitty software and occasionally have to do utterly inane things like unplug/replug etc. Plug it into any machine and it performs exactly the same without any setup. This is just fantastic, and as far as I'm concerned (I'm clearly a super-niche minority considering the many opposing viewpoints I've seen) every mouse should function this way. One downside is the side buttons are not as accessible. I personally never use side buttons at all, but there is a notable difference if it matters to you. Whereas the DA has completely effortless side-back button (you can click this button by simply rolling the thumb upward), the EC1-A side buttons I would describe as recessed. Not only do they need to click deeper to confidently activate, they also do not protrude from the body of the mouse as much. To me, that seems like it would be a negative, though I guess it could be a subjective thing. Just to be clear, to confidently activate the back side button, it seems to me that you'd have to remove the thumb from its contact with the left side of the mouse and place it directly on the button. The mouse tracks beautifully, and glides very smoothly across the pad. The EC1-A has two very large mouse feet (one at top and one at bottom) and comes with a replacement for both - which seems excessive, but certainly a plus. The mouse wheel is the (in my personal opinion) superior clicky style of the old DAs rather than the smooth but incomprehensible style of the new DAs. To me this is a huge plus because I use the mouse wheel all the time and really dislike the floaty style of the new DAs. Your opinion might differ greatly as I've seen tons of people declare the newer DAs to have The Best Mousewheel Yet. Can't really comment fully on build quality as I've only had the mouse a relatively short time. No apparent problems. The mouse buttons are very clicky and the pullback is quite strong. Based on my admittedly limited impressions of the mouse, if my 2010 DA broke, I'd definitely go for the EC1-A myself. | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:07 Nimix wrote: DPI has nothing to do with pixel skipping, DPI is only the ratio of movement in cm to movement in pixels. You should check the logitech g303; even though it's not perfectly similar to the mini optical, it's small and has a great sensor. If your mouse at a certain DPI is moving too slowly on cm/180, you'd have to increase the game sensitivity to get the sens that you want. Depending on the engine, that can have negative effects. I remember for example that the tribes ascend engine (wasn't that unreal 3?) had rounding errors and you have to set that sensitivity multiplier to 5.0 (which was actually "1x") and adjust your DPI, or your sniper aim was really messed up and you couldn't smoothly and consistently follow fast moving, small targets. Up to 400dpi might not have been enough for some people. These days i'd imagine if you have a LMO, they probably malfunction with fast movement and/or have like 125hz polling rate so the 400dpi isn't your only concern for FPS games Stuff that uses 2d pixel grid movement (like desktop, rts/mmo/moba, all that stuff) has pretty much the law where you should almost never ever ever use over 6/11 (1.0x) unless there are very specific exceptions due to the pixel skipping and other behavior. For FPS games, it's much less clear - the "optimal" combination depending on the engine will likely involve a mouse with something like 3366 which can just set DPI anywhere from say 400 to 4000 no problem, but you can get away with a lot more by adjusting a sensitivity slider in those games at one given DPI setting. It's very often close to perfect, but not always | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On May 11 2015 03:25 writer22816 wrote: Anyone by any chance know what the "modern" version of the Logitech Mini Optical is these days? You know, something that moves and feels like the mini optical, is small enough to comfortably fingertip grip but has high enough dpi so you don't pixel skip too much in modern FPS games. I tried the Razer Abyssus which was pretty good but the build quality was pretty bad. Any thoughts? I'm currently using the Logitech G302. It feels a bit like a luxurious version of the Abyssus to me (the older Abyssus). You might want to try that one, but a lot of people don't like it as it has a strange shape, so you need to be careful. Here's my review after using it for a while: I guess you could say that the mouse is some sort of mix between Abyssus and Mini. The lower half of the shell has a boat shape a bit like the Abyssus, but it gets narrower towards the front and back, is only same width as the Abyssus in the middle (not exactly middle: the widest part is more towards the back). Compared to the Mini, it's wider in some places, and the buttons are flat and made longer towards the front. The butt is a bit like the Mini but with sharp edges instead of rounded. Go to the Logitech website. They have a 3D view of the mouse that you can rotate freely. I tried finding my old Mini for an honest comparison, but I don't know where it is, so this is all just what I remember. I do have an Abyssus here in front of me, and the G302 seems vaguely similar to that, except a lot narrower towards the front in the area you are supposed to grip it. About downsides to the mouse: the mouse can tilt to the side easily just like the Abyssus. This is because of its boat shape, and because it has feet at the front and back but not at the sides. The cable is too stiff and I had to experiment a lot until I found a good position for it. If you use a pretty low sensitivity in an FPS game, you might move your hand too fast for its sensor. This might also depend a bit on the mouse pad. The shape is definitely weird. If you'd like to grip it where it has its widest part, it's probably a terrible mouse for you. I actually like the shape, so it's not really a downside for me. The buttons and the wheel are great. It has thumb buttons and those are not in the way. There's a lot of DPI settings to choose from. The sensor seems perfect to me (I use it at 800 DPI). The mouse can save your settings into its own memory and can work without the driver. There's also a more expensive version of it, the G303. It has the exact same shape. It has a better sensor and softer cable (but braided) and added feet at the sides. I guess most people won't need that one over the G302, and the price difference between the two is ridiculous where I am living. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:13 Cyro wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2015 04:07 Nimix wrote: DPI has nothing to do with pixel skipping, DPI is only the ratio of movement in cm to movement in pixels. You should check the logitech g303; even though it's not perfectly similar to the mini optical, it's small and has a great sensor. If your mouse at a certain DPI is moving too slowly on cm/180, you'd have to increase the game sensitivity to get the sens that you want. Depending on the engine, that can have negative effects. I remember for example that the tribes ascend engine (wasn't that unreal 3?) had rounding errors and you have to set that sensitivity multiplier to 5.0 (which was actually "1x") and adjust your DPI, or your sniper aim was really messed up and you couldn't smoothly and consistently follow fast moving, small targets. Up to 400dpi might not have been enough for some people. These days i'd imagine if you have a LMO, they probably malfunction with fast movement and/or have like 125hz polling rate so the 400dpi isn't your only concern for FPS games Stuff that uses 2d pixel grid movement (like desktop, rts/mmo/moba, all that stuff) has pretty much the law where you should almost never ever ever use over 6/11 (1.0x) unless there are very specific exceptions due to the pixel skipping and other behavior. For FPS games, it's much less clear - the "optimal" combination depending on the engine will likely involve a mouse with something like 3366 which can just set DPI anywhere from say 400 to 4000 no problem, but you can get away with a lot more by adjusting a sensitivity slider in those games at one given DPI setting. It's very often close to perfect, but not always I thought he meant that as in "more dpi = more precision", as it's the common misconception. My apologies if it wasn't the case  | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
if the 1.00x sens (on a 2d display, or for turning a camera in an FPS game engine) is slower than you want at a given DPI, it's better to raise the DPI than to increase the multiplier It can be pretty catastrophic to use a multiplier over 1 when dealing with individual counts vs pixels (and not so bad for when it's just multiplying rotation done) but it can be notable for that too. Some engines have issues, while others will start to show more minor effects. For example, 2000dpi at 1.0 sens might allow you to move the camera 1/4'th as much for a minimum adjustment as 500dpi with 4.0 sens. Those minimum adjustment steps can get quite big when aiming at small and distant targets. It was an issue in Tribes Ascend when you had to set sensitivity a certain way, otherwise your cursor could only jump over a target that was 100 meters away and you couldn't actually mouse over them, only select the little area to the right or left of them. In that game, the 5.0 sensitivity was "1.0x". Setting BELOW 5.0 resulted in rounding errors, but setting above 5.0 resulted in it jumping bigger amounts as a minimum movement, so the best thing to do was to just leave sens set at 5.0 in game (1.0x) and adjust your cm/180 only through a DPI change. 400dpi there could have been appropriate for a low sens player, but would be too slow for medium sens It depends a lot on the engine. I don't know a ton about FPS engines aside from some of them have weird quirks. FPS sens also goes across a crazy range. One of my friends uses literally 30x higher sensitivity for FPS games than another - and they're both above average players, though the low sens one is probably top 5%-ish. Never underestimate the ability for people to adjust to silly settings | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
On May 11 2015 04:56 Ropid wrote: I'm currently using the Logitech G302. It feels a bit like a luxurious version of the Abyssus to me (the older Abyssus). You might want to try that one, but a lot of people don't like it as it has a strange shape, so you need to be careful. Here's my review after using it for a while: I guess you could say that the mouse is some sort of mix between Abyssus and Mini. The lower half of the shell has a boat shape a bit like the Abyssus, but it gets narrower towards the front and back, is only same width as the Abyssus in the middle (not exactly middle: the widest part is more towards the back). Compared to the Mini, it's wider in some places, and the buttons are flat and made longer towards the front. The butt is a bit like the Mini but with sharp edges instead of rounded. Go to the Logitech website. They have a 3D view of the mouse that you can rotate freely. I tried finding my old Mini for an honest comparison, but I don't know where it is, so this is all just what I remember. I do have an Abyssus here in front of me, and the G302 seems vaguely similar to that, except a lot narrower towards the front in the area you are supposed to grip it. About downsides to the mouse: the mouse can tilt to the side easily just like the Abyssus. This is because of its boat shape, and because it has feet at the front and back but not at the sides. The cable is too stiff and I had to experiment a lot until I found a good position for it. If you use a pretty low sensitivity in an FPS game, you might move your hand too fast for its sensor. This might also depend a bit on the mouse pad. The shape is definitely weird. If you'd like to grip it where it has its widest part, it's probably a terrible mouse for you. I actually like the shape, so it's not really a downside for me. The buttons and the wheel are great. It has thumb buttons and those are not in the way. There's a lot of DPI settings to choose from. The sensor seems perfect to me (I use it at 800 DPI). The mouse can save your settings into its own memory and can work without the driver. There's also a more expensive version of it, the G303. It has the exact same shape. It has a better sensor and softer cable (but braided) and added feet at the sides. I guess most people won't need that one over the G302, and the price difference between the two is ridiculous where I am living. Thanks! The G302 looks pretty promising. I'll probably grab it later when my mini optical wears out or if it's on sale. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On May 12 2015 22:19 Nimix wrote: If you like FPS games I really encourage you to go the extra mile and buy the G303; the low max tracking speed of the G302 will be an issue if you play with a low-ish sens. He will have no problem if he is currently fine with the Logitech Mini. | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
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Powerpill
United States1692 Posts
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
On May 12 2015 22:19 Nimix wrote: If you like FPS games I really encourage you to go the extra mile and buy the G303; the low max tracking speed of the G302 will be an issue if you play with a low-ish sens. Are the G302/303 good mice for CS:GO? I find that I don't really play RTS or dota anymore these days. Even though it's advertised as a MOBA mouse it looks like it's the right size for fingertip grip. I have a feeling that most "FPS" mice like the G402 or Deathadder, MX518 etc are too big for a fingertip grip just from looking at specs and comparing to the size of my LMO. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
By far the best part is the absolutely delicious left and right mouse buttons. Scroll wheel is nice, clicking it isn't too hard. I love how light and accurate it feels. Felt very accurate and good tracking in CSGO. Handled flick shots no problem. The ergonomics are killing me at the moment but I'll give some time to try and get used to it (large fingers but I have used small mice in the past). The widest part on the left side is where my thumb really wants to rest, and if it was smoother or flatter right there I would be in heaven. Instead it feels like the edge is trying to jab into my thumb. If it weren't for this I could have seen it replacing my corsair m45. Tempted to apply some grip or tape in order to have less of the poking into my thumb syndrome. I fluctuate between fingertip and palm grip, for people who find the G303 comfy, how are you gripping it? Edit: My god but does it feels so much more fun and precise to click around in starcraft 2 compared to the corsair m45. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
i'l see when mine gets here (probably 2017 at this rate ) | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On May 18 2015 10:08 decemberscalm wrote: First day with G303. By far the best part is the absolutely delicious left and right mouse buttons. Scroll wheel is nice, clicking it isn't too hard. I love how light and accurate it feels. Felt very accurate and good tracking in CSGO. Handled flick shots no problem. The ergonomics are killing me at the moment but I'll give some time to try and get used to it (large fingers but I have used small mice in the past). The widest part on the left side is where my thumb really wants to rest, and if it was smoother or flatter right there I would be in heaven. Instead it feels like the edge is trying to jab into my thumb. If it weren't for this I could have seen it replacing my corsair m45. Tempted to apply some grip or tape in order to have less of the poking into my thumb syndrome. I fluctuate between fingertip and palm grip, for people who find the G303 comfy, how are you gripping it? Edit: My god but does it feels so much more fun and precise to click around in starcraft 2 compared to the corsair m45. I grip the front part of the mouse, not the lights. I'm also pondering if I can improve ergonomics by adding some grip to that area of the mouse. Let me know if you find something. | ||
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Zorgon
United States211 Posts
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