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On December 06 2012 19:24 Alryk wrote:
Is this for gaming? If so, drop the i7 3770 for an i5-3470 (assuming you aren't overclocking), drop the 16GB RAM for 8GB, and then spend the 140$ you just saved on a GTX 650 Ti or 7770 or something like that. You could even temporarily drop the SSD and then get a 7850/GTX 660.
PSU: Rosewill Capstone 450W for high end vs maybe something like an Antec VP-450 for lower end?
Edit: Reasoning being a 7850 is way better than 8800 GTX, and you'll have a brand new PC. For gaming, you will never notice the performance difference between an i5 and i7, except for maybe when you stream.
Well, PC is going to be partially for gaming (with Starcraft+streaming on twitch) and partially for video production in Sony Vegas / graphics in Adobe Photoshop.
Do you think Ill notice the difference with i5?
And about the PSU - do you think that 400W is going to be enough?
This one is for 90$
http://www.alza.cz/EN/fortron-aurum-400w-d293999.htm
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http://www.alza.cz/EN/enermax-naxn-enp500agt-500w-d344585.htm
cheaper it seems and good unit
as for the i5vsi7, if you are going to do heavy and a lot of encoding, the i7 would be better, but the Intel Xeon E3-1230 V2 is not that much more then an i5 f you can find it (so a lot less then i7), and basicly be as good
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Oh, my bad then, there was the Bequiet! Pure power 430W for not much more also, that i know for sure is good :p
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On December 06 2012 21:51 Womwomwom wrote:
They screw into whatever 120mm fan slot you have. I wouldn't bother with those closed watercooling kits unless you lack the room for a large heatpipe cooler or need to constantly move the desktop. They're often louder and don't exactly perform any better.
If you want to get the watercooling kit for whatever reason, make sure you have enough clearance for a fan and the radiator put together in your case. Also it goes without saying but try and not bend the tubing excessively.
Ok, thanks for the info. I've just read about these and they got me interested. But I think I'll buy a heatpipe cooler instead. Any heatpipe you would recommend?
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On December 07 2012 00:45 Keltanokka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:51 Womwomwom wrote:
They screw into whatever 120mm fan slot you have. I wouldn't bother with those closed watercooling kits unless you lack the room for a large heatpipe cooler or need to constantly move the desktop. They're often louder and don't exactly perform any better.
If you want to get the watercooling kit for whatever reason, make sure you have enough clearance for a fan and the radiator put together in your case. Also it goes without saying but try and not bend the tubing excessively. Ok, thanks for the info. I've just read about these and they got me interested. But I think I'll buy a heatpipe cooler instead. Any heatpipe you would recommend?
If you get an air cooler, then you need to consider the clearance in the case (distance between motherboard and side panel for a narrow case is not enough to fit a very tall cooler) and around the socket (distance to RAM slots, PCIe slot). Usually for most motherboards and setups, there is no issue.
As for what to get, depends on what you need to cool. What processor, what level of overclocking, noise requirements, etc.?
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On December 07 2012 01:15 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 00:45 Keltanokka wrote:On December 06 2012 21:51 Womwomwom wrote:
They screw into whatever 120mm fan slot you have. I wouldn't bother with those closed watercooling kits unless you lack the room for a large heatpipe cooler or need to constantly move the desktop. They're often louder and don't exactly perform any better.
If you want to get the watercooling kit for whatever reason, make sure you have enough clearance for a fan and the radiator put together in your case. Also it goes without saying but try and not bend the tubing excessively. Ok, thanks for the info. I've just read about these and they got me interested. But I think I'll buy a heatpipe cooler instead. Any heatpipe you would recommend? If you get an air cooler, then you need to consider the clearance in the case (distance between motherboard and side panel for a narrow case is not enough to fit a very tall cooler) and around the socket (distance to RAM slots, PCIe slot). Usually for most motherboards and setups, there is no issue. As for what to get, depends on what you need to cool. What processor, what level of overclocking, noise requirements, etc.?
I plan on getting a 3570k and hope to OC between 4-4.5 GHZ while trying to keep it nice and quiet. I have about 19 cm of space between the mobo and the side of the case so I don't know how large these things get?
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So, I just checked some more benchmarks and it seems that i7 is better option in my case. I will definitely see some difference in rendering speed 
Anyway, thanks a lot for your advices regarding the PSU.If 430W is going to be enough, Ill probably take this one:
http://www.alza.cz/EN/corsair-cx430-d360086.htm
+ I have very good experience with Corsair products
+ It will be pretty sensitive to my budget
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19cm is a whole lot, more than necessary.
There are many options out there, but in most of Europe you can find the Thermalright HR-02 Macho, often at a pretty decent price. That's the caliber of cooler that is probably has better temperatures and noise than a lower-end closed-loop water cooler system like Corsair H60.
edit: actually there's a review of the new Corsair H60 here. Tested results were worse than Thermalright True Spirit 120M, which is a decent cheaper option (maybe more in line with many others including Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus/EVO, etc.) and not going to be better than the HR-02 Macho
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Thanks a lot for the info
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Alright guys, so I am planning on building my own gaming computer. Ive never built a computer before, and didnt know a whole lot about techincal things. After looking up some things, i came up with this.
CASE: Cooler Master HAF X - Full Tower Case w/ USB Ports 3.0
MOBO: Asus P8Z77-V LX LGA 1155 Intell Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0
CPU- Intel Core i5-3570k Quad Core Processor 3.4 Ghz
CPU COOLER- Cooler Master TPC 812
GPU- Asus GeForce GTX 670 2GB
RAM- Kingston HyperX Predator 16 GB (2 x 8GB) 1866MHz DDR3
PSU- Cooler Master Silent Pro Hybrid 1050W 80 PLUS Gold Power Supply
SSD- Crucial 256 GB SATA III (bare)
HDD- (x2) Western Digital 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
OS- Microsoft Wondows 7 Professional
This is what im planning on doing with this computer. I am going to play Starcraft 2, Battlefield 3, and other games on it. I am also wanting to attempt to stream my gameplay. I am going to run 2 monitors (One screen for gaming, second screen for forums/music/facebook/whatever). I may also run surround sound for gaming through the computer also. I want to be able to play SC2, and other games on high settings without my computer even thinking about it. lol I have some money to do this, and i want it to be a good gaming comuter that i wont have to upgrade for a while.
Because of all this, I am not sure if i should order another GeForce GTX 670, and run SLI, or of that would be overkill... Thoughts on that?
Also, I am wondering if I need a sound card, or if the internal one would do just fine?
So overall, I want an awesome gaming pc that will be up to date, not need upgrading for a while, and something that i can play sc2, and other games on (and stream) without problems.
Let me know what you guys think! And thanks guys!
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If you want more graphics performance I'd recommend a 680 instead of SLI 670s. The full power of SLI is difficult to use with many games. Either way I think a single 670 is sufficient. You can always upgrade to a next-gen GPU in the future.
Also I can't think of any way to employ 16GB RAM currently, 8 will do. It's easy to double up whenever you want, anyways.
The mobo integrated sound card is good enough for most purposes.
A mid-tower case should be sufficient even with a bulky CPU cooler.
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Benchmarks show that 2 GTX 670's run the same framerates as 1 GTX 690... I think one would be sufficient also, but i was wondering with running 2 monitors, and running games on full graphics if 2 would be considerable.
I got 16 GB ram just so when multitasking, nothing will slow my gaming performace down. Plus, why not have too much, than not enough. lol
I figured the integrated would be sufficent, but my friend told me to look at sound cards, but i didnt think i would need it, or that it would really make a huge difference.
I looked at some different cases, and this one seemed good cuz it has plenty of room for putting together all the pieces, and it was highly recommended by other first-timers who built their PC's. And the cooling is very good also. So i figured i would go with it. lol
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Do you have a 1440p or 120Hz monitor? (and play the most demanding games with details cranked up and/or pointless levels of antialiasing; i.e. any possible conceivable need for that kinds of graphics processing power) For that matter, how many monitors do you have, what are they, what other kinds of peripherals do you have?
Why would you want two 1TB hard drives instead of one 2TB hard drive?
Why 1866 MHz RAM? Why 16GB?
How much power do you think that kind of system uses?
Rather than pick parts without much good justification, I think it's better to answer the questions in the OP so we can figure out what actually makes sense for the build.
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I just said its a gamble and you said its a gamble yet I don't know what I'm talking about. dur...
Buying used is not like buying new, you're an idiot. Sellers don't have obligations to provide pictures, an accurate description, to tell the truth, to accept returns, or anything. Warranty being done through serial numbers does not mean the product is not voided of warranty.
You clearly haven't used ebay in a few years. You are obligated to provide pictures.
Payments also don't go through to the seller until the buyer gives positive feedback nowadays. You surely aren't going to report positive feedback on the item if it's clearly not as advertised.
Items like Heatsinks also are pretty straightforward, there are no mechanical parts to be fucked up, and a good listing will clearly have a picture. You make it sound like every ebay listing is a blank or stock photo, but it's not, it's rarer to find a listing of a used item that doesn't have more than 3, detailed pictures.
You just talk out of your ass, saying ebay is a gamble. Buying anywhere is a 'gamble' , if you want to play that game, and each seller is different, just because there's one report on the internets about a bad ebay seller, doesn't mean the thousands of ebay sellers that clearly have 100% feedback on over 2000 items are bad. Learn to use ebay, it's pretty simple. If your a newb like you, obviously, about ebay, then simply avoid any seller with less than 100% feedback on 100 items in the last month and 1000 total. Not hard.
Sellers will also list return policy. Either the seller has a 14 day, 1 year, et cetera, return policy, or they don't. Most 'new' stores don't even have return policies of any kind, so it's a lot better through ebay than most places. Again, very straightforward, just don't buy from anyone who doesn't accept returns!
Warranty being done through serial numbers does not mean the product is not voided of warranty.
No... it means that buying it used is nothing different than buying it new, except for the obvious, usage. The whole reason people buy products new is because of warranties/return policies. If you can buy a used item with a 3 year warranty policy included, and you know it's a trustworthy listing (obviously buyer has great feedback, listing has many pictures, clear description), your good to go.
Like jesus christ, you sound like a prohibitionist from the 20's or like one of those people who say marijuana is evil or sex is bad or overclocking is very very dangerous and will blow your computer out! No... just know what your doing. I've had much worse experience with Wal-Mart than with ebay. Does that mean wal-mart is bad? No, it just means be a smart buyer, it's pretty straightforward. Use common sense.
I bet you think craigslist is evil too right?
If they've overclocked to achieve some stupid e-penis metric that forums like OCN love (you know stupidly aggressive overclocks with high voltage and LLC on), then I wouldn't be surprised if the processor is damaged in some capacity.
Sellers will list where they came from. It should be pretty obvious if someone did that or not (seller has a buying history of dice pots, mounts, mods, water cooling, et cetera, vs someone with a huge selling history of tons of processors). I've seen many listings where the author describes overclock history.
If you buy a CPU from ebay, always prime95 run it on stock after buying it, of course. You can report/return it if there's a problem, hardware issues are covered, generally. I just bought a GPU that I originally thought had some hardware issues, the seller offered a full refund and paying for shipping, but I wasn't sure yet and it turned out to be some other issue.
And for things like monitors, buying second hand is always a gamble no matter how many pictures the person takes. Given the person taking the picture generally knows nothing about monitors, you're not going to get much more information out of them.
It should be obvious, but with how ebay works nowadays I don't think it's possible to list a technical item without posting the exact technical model and details. A bad listing, and a good listing, will stand out, and the process is fairly automated these days anyways.
There are some things you shouldn't buy off ebay or used, or more accurately, there are some things that aren't so black and white when bought used.
A heatsink is great to buy used. No electronic parts, no moving parts (fans are cheap, stock fans suck usually anyways).
On the other hand, I might not want to buy a case used, because a case is more cosmetic and I'm more worried about how it looks or a small dent on it. Or, I might be perfectly okay with a few small dings for a 50% price reduction.
I've been looking at some of these "sealed liquid cooling" systems for my cpu (like for example the Corsair H60. Do I need to pay any special attention to the case I have if I get one of these? Or should it work no matter what case I get?
It'll work no matter what case you get. I'd recommend against the H60, though, and sealed liquid cooling in general. For their price new, they perform terribly, there are cheaper standard air heatsinks that perform better, for cheaper.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103089
CM V6 GT performs slightly better.
Why are you looking into a sealed liquid cooling system? In general they are terrible for their price. There have been benches showing the 212+ is almost as good as the H50/H60/H70 with equal fan configs.
However the top end closed loops outperform top end air, but it's a terrible value, and for used you can sometimes find H50/H60/620/Coolits for very good price used, H50 is around $25-30 on ebay right now, at that price the H50 is the best heatsink around used for $25-30. H60 is expensive used though, terribly value, just like new, although the newegg deal right now actually puts it at a half decent price.
H60=Kuhler620>H50>H70 with equal fan set-ups.
I gotta say Belial you talk through your arse too often. "Buying ebay used is like buying new" Bollocks. Sheer and utter bollocks.
Maybe try reading the post.
Unlike others who talk out of their ass, I've actually bought many PC components both new, from places like newegg, wal-mart.com, petras tech shop, and used, like OCN trading forum, Tomshardware forum, Ebay, and amazon. I've sold and bought a ton of stuff through ebay, never once have I had a bad experience, and I've bought many things that were obviously broken for modding/parts/hoping to get lucky.
People always bash something they have never used. Like the boogeyman or something, they don't seem to understand that ebay isn't like it was 10 years ago, listing are automated, pictures are obligatory, and sellers are treated so badly and buyers so well that the only sellers left on ebay are the trustworthy ones moving a ton of shit. Even neutral feedback just destroys your ebay account, and an ebay account isn't going to be trusted until it's got thousands of sales/buys on it.
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On December 07 2012 00:45 Keltanokka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:51 Womwomwom wrote:
They screw into whatever 120mm fan slot you have. I wouldn't bother with those closed watercooling kits unless you lack the room for a large heatpipe cooler or need to constantly move the desktop. They're often louder and don't exactly perform any better.
If you want to get the watercooling kit for whatever reason, make sure you have enough clearance for a fan and the radiator put together in your case. Also it goes without saying but try and not bend the tubing excessively. Ok, thanks for the info. I've just read about these and they got me interested. But I think I'll buy a heatpipe cooler instead. Any heatpipe you would recommend?
It entirely depends on what you are doing. What CPU are you running, do you have lots of case fans or not, is loudness an issue, do you plan to buy better fans or use better fans of your own or are you going to stick with the shitty stock fans the heatsink comes with, do you have a fan controller/molex or are you plugging it into the motherboard 4-pin PWM.
I would always recommend the Coolermaster Hyper 212+, it's got a powerful as fuck PWM fan that will be quiet if you want and it'll push a lot of air when necessary, and it competes with $50-60 heatsinks with a bit of help (some good thermal paste, 2 x yate loons, you got a cool budget heatsink).
But for some overclocks and CPUs it's not enough. In which case:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=33412
The best air cooler in the world for $39 new is a ridiculously good deal. The Logisys Deep Cool Gamer Storm Assassin, aka Alpenpohn K2 (european version). Absolute best cooler in the world, going to be way better than an H60, and for cheaper.
It's not really necessary, probably, but for the price point it's just too good to pass up if you want to spend more than a hyper 212+.
Get some yate loons from petras tech shop (you can't buy them from anywhere else, everywhere else is fake yate loons or different batch). Some of the best fans CFM per dba. I'm recommending them considering your running a hyper 212. Some slipstreams or something wouldn't make much sense on a 212.
I like the mediums but highs are good too. $5 each, $20 for 5.
www.petrastechshop.com
CPU COOLER- Cooler Master TPC 812
I don't agree with your choice of heatsink.
As I said above, get the Assassin for $39. Same price, but with no rebate involved, and better.
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re: eBay, Belial88, brick walls
For a lot of people, their time is worth a lot more than the price difference. I tend to think your valuations almost always treat time and effort as 0 cost or close to that. I don't mean this in a good or a bad way (whether anything is worth it depends on the situation), but it takes a certain type of person to rebend CPU pins. Some people buy refurbished hard drives. Others don't. etc.
Ignoring prices and all that, dealing with occasionally faulty products, returns, etc. through something like eBay is just flat-out worse than dealing with most reputable large retailers. Hence "gambling." You can argue over how much worse (acceptably worse, maybe not much worse? maybe).
As you say, "gambling" can be a good idea. Nobody said it was strictly worse. If the odds are right, you can maybe say that the expected value of price/performance is higher, but you have higher variance (uncertainty). Some peoples' objective functions are to maximize expected value or are weighted closer to that; other people value lower variance.
edit: btw pro tip: there exist billions of people that don't live in teh USA *gasp*. also some people like PWM control for CPU cooling
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The fans on the Assassin are backwards.
In an apples to apples comparison, with equivalent fan set-ups, the Assassin beats all other heatsinks:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1289884/finished-assassin-vs-nh-d14-vs-phanteks-vs-cm-v8-vs-hyper-612-vs-hyper-212/60
This is consistent with other test results of apples to apples, by the way. And frostytech is an absolute joke, they don't even use a CPU rofl. They test using a heatplate. Frostytech is the worst benchmark site ever.
Yea, and I'm sure the Hyper 212 EVO is better than a Thermalright Silver Arrow LOL
Oh look at that, the best heatsink in the world according to frostytech is a Spire Thermax eclipse ii. A 5 pipe HDT heatsink, is better than the NH-D14, Phanteks, HR-02, and .5*C hotter than an H100. That makes sense, even though every other benchmark puts it as a pretty mediocre/crap heatsink.
hint hint frostytech takes money for their 'reviews'. It's a bs site.
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EPT
