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On December 08 2010 15:11 Minzy wrote:
So i plugged in my front panel cables, and am now wondering how do people differentiate which side is positive, and which side is negative, theres a little arrow on the socket, does it matter what way you put it in, or is it more important that you're consistent, so that all the ones that are supposed to be + / - are the same, and all the ones that are supposed to be - / + are the opposite? ... kind of terrible example, but hopefully understandable.
Read the manual for proper placement. White/Black colors are usually negative, while the more vibrant colors are positive.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2010 22:32 Womwomwom wrote:
The GTX480 is already obsolete and overpriced compared to NV's new 500 series of cards. The GTX570 is less than two MSI Hawks and doesn't have any of the problems of SLI/Crossfire (heat, power, noise, some games hate dual GPU configurations, etc). Not to mention you forget to mention that you can overclock the single GPU option as well, perhaps even easier since you have access to many more multislot coolers like the Thermalright Shaman and Spitfire.
Then you have to include additional costs like a beefier power supply, perhaps aftermarket cooling if the ambient temp is particularly high, and a motherboard that has at least dual 8x PCIe slots. Cut these extra costs and you can save like $200 which you can spend on something with immediate gain like a better GPU or simply pocket it.
SLI isn't a good upgrade strategy either. Two dual GPU cards of last generation are generally outperformed by a single GPU of the current generation; AMD's high end 4000's series of cards are basically buried by the current mid range 6000 series cards and its only been a single year.
For a standard user just playing games, there is very little reason to use dual GPU options since you don't need the performance it can offer. If you are a computer enthusiast fine that's cool but most people are not and just want a computer to play Starcraft 2; if you need to ask this thread for computer building help, I don't think you're the type of person to benchmark, fold, or run obscene Eyefinity setups..
The 570 is definitely a good card,but that has nothing to do with SLI itself - and of course you can overclock a single GPU, I didn't think I had to point that out. Getting dual 8x PCIe slots isn't very much of a challenge anyway, and getting a better GPU from saving money on the mobo/psu would require a better psu in itself, for any room to upgrade at least. One 570 would be phenomenal today, and if he added a second one 1-2 years down the road, it'd make his computer last quite awhile. You can't just discount SLI or Crossfire simply because you need a motherboard and psu that can support it, thats like complaining high-end i7s require a 1366 socket motherboard. The fact is, SLI is a very good option for saving money now, upgrading to better performance later - and getting AMD with nvidia wouldn't let him do that, so overall its a bad choice for someone who wants to upgrade. If you think you'll be fine with a single 570 for the next 3-4 years, and are comfortable with buying a whole new card, go for it.
EDIT: tbh, I didn't know the 570s came out yet - all I saw was the leaked info, I probably would've used one instead of two 460's if I did.
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Hey,
I'm thinking about building a computer in the near future (next month or two). My budget at the moment is looking to be about 800 dollars, though possibly a bit more.
The resolution I would likely be using would be just 1280x1024, though it depends on the monitor I end up using. I have no need for a high-resolution system, though.
I would be using it for word processing, schoolwork, surfing, watching videos and streams, and playing SC2 and other video games.
I'm looking to invest in a decent, stable computer that would last me a while and yet is as good as I can get within my budget, not a bragging machine or an uber-powerful gaming rig. I will not be overclocking at all.
I should already have an OS.
I live in the Alabama area, I'm not sure where we would get the parts yet. My brother, who is an electrical engineer, will be helping me put together the computer.
Thanks in advance for the help.
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Check out newegg.com, should be good for parts regardless of where you live in the U.S.
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@Captain Peabody: I'd get a Core i5-2x00, P67 (or H67) motherboard, 2x2 GB DDR3 RAM, and a decent GPU around the $150-200 range. A HD 6850 or GTX 460 should last a decent while, and the CPU may last longer than that. If there's something like a GTX 560 by then, that may be worth looking into as well. A good 380W PSU would be more than plenty.
The new Core i5-2500, i5-2400, etc. are quad cores that have yet to be released (they will be out in a month), but they should be good.
Prices are kind of hard to predict in a couple months, so you might as well check back here then.
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my current laptop can't even play SC2 at low... lolz so I've been playing Brood War mainly.
I can't wait for next year to get here. I want the new Intel chips so I can build a desktop with the most current Processor. I'm thinking the new sandybridge i7 unlocked multiplier chip. I CAN'T WAIT!
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5930 Posts
On December 09 2010 04:54 KeiQQ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2010 22:32 Womwomwom wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The GTX480 is already obsolete and overpriced compared to NV's new 500 series of cards. The GTX570 is less than two MSI Hawks and doesn't have any of the problems of SLI/Crossfire (heat, power, noise, some games hate dual GPU configurations, etc). Not to mention you forget to mention that you can overclock the single GPU option as well, perhaps even easier since you have access to many more multislot coolers like the Thermalright Shaman and Spitfire.
Then you have to include additional costs like a beefier power supply, perhaps aftermarket cooling if the ambient temp is particularly high, and a motherboard that has at least dual 8x PCIe slots. Cut these extra costs and you can save like $200 which you can spend on something with immediate gain like a better GPU or simply pocket it.
SLI isn't a good upgrade strategy either. Two dual GPU cards of last generation are generally outperformed by a single GPU of the current generation; AMD's high end 4000's series of cards are basically buried by the current mid range 6000 series cards and its only been a single year.
For a standard user just playing games, there is very little reason to use dual GPU options since you don't need the performance it can offer. If you are a computer enthusiast fine that's cool but most people are not and just want a computer to play Starcraft 2; if you need to ask this thread for computer building help, I don't think you're the type of person to benchmark, fold, or run obscene Eyefinity setups.. The 570 is definitely a good card,but that has nothing to do with SLI itself - and of course you can overclock a single GPU, I didn't think I had to point that out. Getting dual 8x PCIe slots isn't very much of a challenge anyway, and getting a better GPU from saving money on the mobo/psu would require a better psu in itself, for any room to upgrade at least. One 570 would be phenomenal today, and if he added a second one 1-2 years down the road, it'd make his computer last quite awhile. You can't just discount SLI or Crossfire simply because you need a motherboard and psu that can support it, thats like complaining high-end i7s require a 1366 socket motherboard. The fact is, SLI is a very good option for saving money now, upgrading to better performance later - and getting AMD with nvidia wouldn't let him do that, so overall its a bad choice for someone who wants to upgrade. If you think you'll be fine with a single 570 for the next 3-4 years, and are comfortable with buying a whole new card, go for it. EDIT: tbh, I didn't know the 570s came out yet - all I saw was the leaked info, I probably would've used one instead of two 460's if I did.
+ Show Spoiler +
Exactly my point, just like SLI/Crossfire no one except people with very certain demands (people who work with scientific software, work with media day in and day out, need a crapload of PCIe lanes, etc) require LGA1366 and the high end i7s. If you need hyperthreading, nothing can't be solved with LGA1156 and the i7 870.
A GTX570 will last him the next 2-3 years unless he has specific demands. Rock Paper Shotgun or a similar PC gaming site discussed how the current console generation has saved PC gaming (or isn't killing it like everyone is saying at the very least) through making it far more accessible for the public: mid range hardware can run any AAA title with ease and the graphical demands of games is not changing dramatically like it was 10 years ago increasing the longevity of hardware.
I think they're right. Heck, only recently is the GeForce 8 Series starting to be completely inadequate for a lot of current games.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 09 2010 15:51 Womwomwom wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 04:54 KeiQQ wrote:On December 08 2010 22:32 Womwomwom wrote:
The GTX480 is already obsolete and overpriced compared to NV's new 500 series of cards. The GTX570 is less than two MSI Hawks and doesn't have any of the problems of SLI/Crossfire (heat, power, noise, some games hate dual GPU configurations, etc). Not to mention you forget to mention that you can overclock the single GPU option as well, perhaps even easier since you have access to many more multislot coolers like the Thermalright Shaman and Spitfire.
Then you have to include additional costs like a beefier power supply, perhaps aftermarket cooling if the ambient temp is particularly high, and a motherboard that has at least dual 8x PCIe slots. Cut these extra costs and you can save like $200 which you can spend on something with immediate gain like a better GPU or simply pocket it.
SLI isn't a good upgrade strategy either. Two dual GPU cards of last generation are generally outperformed by a single GPU of the current generation; AMD's high end 4000's series of cards are basically buried by the current mid range 6000 series cards and its only been a single year.
For a standard user just playing games, there is very little reason to use dual GPU options since you don't need the performance it can offer. If you are a computer enthusiast fine that's cool but most people are not and just want a computer to play Starcraft 2; if you need to ask this thread for computer building help, I don't think you're the type of person to benchmark, fold, or run obscene Eyefinity setups.. The 570 is definitely a good card,but that has nothing to do with SLI itself - and of course you can overclock a single GPU, I didn't think I had to point that out. Getting dual 8x PCIe slots isn't very much of a challenge anyway, and getting a better GPU from saving money on the mobo/psu would require a better psu in itself, for any room to upgrade at least. One 570 would be phenomenal today, and if he added a second one 1-2 years down the road, it'd make his computer last quite awhile. You can't just discount SLI or Crossfire simply because you need a motherboard and psu that can support it, thats like complaining high-end i7s require a 1366 socket motherboard. The fact is, SLI is a very good option for saving money now, upgrading to better performance later - and getting AMD with nvidia wouldn't let him do that, so overall its a bad choice for someone who wants to upgrade. If you think you'll be fine with a single 570 for the next 3-4 years, and are comfortable with buying a whole new card, go for it. EDIT: tbh, I didn't know the 570s came out yet - all I saw was the leaked info, I probably would've used one instead of two 460's if I did. Exactly my point, just like SLI/Crossfire no one except people with very certain demands (people who work with scientific software, work with media day in and day out, need a crapload of PCIe lanes, etc) require LGA1366 and the high end i7s. If you need hyperthreading, nothing can't be solved with LGA1156 and the i7 870. A GTX570 will last him the next 2-3 years unless he has specific demands. Rock Paper Shotgun or a similar PC gaming site discussed how the current console generation has saved PC gaming (or isn't killing it like everyone is saying at the very least) through making it far more accessible for the public: mid range hardware can run any AAA title with ease and the graphical demands of games is not changing dramatically like it was 10 years ago increasing the longevity of hardware. I think they're right. Heck, only recently is the GeForce 8 Series starting to be completely inadequate for a lot of current games. Yes, except its a matter of upgrading, not specific demands. If you go AMD with nvidia, you >CAN'T< upgrade to sli, no matter what. I'm not saying the guy should get two 570s right off the bat, but being able to add a second one two years later is a good flexibility to have. Two years from now, a 570 will run most games fine, but it definitely wont be at max settings with really good fps. That may be fine for you, but a lot of people would like the option of buying a simple 2 year old card and getting performance similar to the newest cards that are coming out. I'm not saying its for everybody, but I AM saying it's a very good option to have, and instantly discarding it seems somewhat silly.
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5930 Posts
I'm really sorry for derailing this thread so this will be my last post on this. Ignoring all the possible driver issues SLI/Crossfire have, the complete slow down in hardware demands of games thanks to consoles, and extra hardware requirements for a dual GPU system, tell me this:
The initial poster wanted to play SC2 on Ultra settings on a 21 inch monitor (what's that? 1600x900?). What is the point of having an SLI upgrade option when the resolution is so small and basically every game released today is so hardware undemanding like Fallout: New Vegas? By the time you need to upgrade, you're probably going to need new hardware for everything and a $200 midrange card is probably going to slaughter any GPU out right now especially in DirectX 11 performance.
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Hey guys, this the build im looking at getting. What are your thoughts? Any room to cut the price at all? I'd like to also get a new case and psu but what have currently takes up my whole budget.
Intel Core i5-760 2.8Ghz
Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H H55 LGA1156 DDR3 Motherboard
Seagate 3.5" SATA 500GB HDD
Inno3D 1GB GTX465 PCI-E VGA Card
G.Skill Ripjaws 4GB Kit(2Gx2) DDR3 1600 RAM
Microsoft MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit OEM
Could i possible go AMD, something like a Phenom II x4 965 to cut the price or is it better sticking with the 760?
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I think if you want to cut the price get a 460 instead of a 465
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5930 Posts
On December 10 2010 00:49 killself wrote:
Hey guys, this the build im looking at getting. What are your thoughts? Any room to cut the price at all? I'd like to also get a new case and psu but what have currently takes up my whole budget.
Intel Core i5-760 2.8Ghz
Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H H55 LGA1156 DDR3 Motherboard
Seagate 3.5" SATA 500GB HDD
Inno3D 1GB GTX465 PCI-E VGA Card
G.Skill Ripjaws 4GB Kit(2Gx2) DDR3 1600 RAM
Microsoft MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit OEM
Could i possible go AMD, something like a Phenom II x4 965 to cut the price or is it better sticking with the 760?
If you go AMD, go with the Phenom II X4 955. Its probably significantly cheaper and they're basically the same...IIRC the 965 is basically a 955 with a increased vcore and different multiplier. The 955 is still a black edition so it shouldn't be hard making up the clock speed by playing around with the multiplier in BIOS.
If you are hard pressed for cash, I would go AMD since the Phenom II 955 is $80 AUD less than the i5 760 at MSY and the gaming performance isn't that significantly different.
While the GTX465 is all round worse than the GTX460, MSY is having a December promotion where you can save $60 on a MSI GTX465 if you buy a Asus motherboard. Some food for thought if you're trying to save money, no clue if MSY will honour it though.
What's your budget exactly?
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Yes, I did say some could, but its a very small percentage and the one he linked was not one of those.
Anyway, I agree, I'm sorry for derailing the thread, this will be my last post on SLI/Crossfire
(Also @womwomwom: Most 21inches can support 1920x1080 - I sincerely don't see your hatred for SLI nor the reasoning you use to back it up, but I guess its opinion.)
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On December 10 2010 05:53 Womwomwom wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 00:49 killself wrote:
Hey guys, this the build im looking at getting. What are your thoughts? Any room to cut the price at all? I'd like to also get a new case and psu but what have currently takes up my whole budget.
Intel Core i5-760 2.8Ghz
Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H H55 LGA1156 DDR3 Motherboard
Seagate 3.5" SATA 500GB HDD
Inno3D 1GB GTX465 PCI-E VGA Card
G.Skill Ripjaws 4GB Kit(2Gx2) DDR3 1600 RAM
Microsoft MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit OEM
Could i possible go AMD, something like a Phenom II x4 965 to cut the price or is it better sticking with the 760? If you go AMD, go with the Phenom II X4 955. Its probably significantly cheaper and they're basically the same...IIRC the 965 is basically a 955 with a increased vcore and different multiplier. The 955 is still a black edition so it shouldn't be hard making up the clock speed by playing around with the multiplier in BIOS. If you are hard pressed for cash, I would go AMD since the Phenom II 955 is $80 AUD less than the i5 760 at MSY and the gaming performance isn't that significantly different. While the GTX465 is all round worse than the GTX460, MSY is having a December promotion where you can save $60 on a MSI GTX465 if you buy a Asus motherboard. Some food for thought if you're trying to save money, no clue if MSY will honour it though. What's your budget exactly?
Thanks. I'm going to price up an AMD system from MSY now and see what the difference is. Also my budget is $700-$800 AUD which is around $670-$770 USD.
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Can someone give me advice on putting together a gaming system? My budget is basically $1000 Canadian, but that money also needs to get me a monitor, probably something around 20". I don't have brand preference, I just want something that gets the job done very cost effectively. I'm assuming SC2 at High settings shouldn't be unreasonable at this budget? Thanks in advance.
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On December 10 2010 10:23 Axiom0 wrote:
Can someone give me advice on putting together a gaming system? My budget is basically $1000 Canadian, but that money also needs to get me a monitor, probably something around 20". I don't have brand preference, I just want something that gets the job done very cost effectively. I'm assuming SC2 at High settings shouldn't be unreasonable at this budget? Thanks in advance.
Where are you buying from? NCIX.com or Memoryexpress with price matching will get you the best prices online in Canada, aside from temporary blowout deals. But with the budget, you could do ultra. In general, a build for that would be something like this:
Phenom II X4 -- anything above the 955 is usually not worth the money unless you plan on heavy overclocking
AM3 motherboard -- Asus and Gigabyte are overall good brands; nothing over $100 needed here definitely, unless you have some overclocking or multi-GPU needs
2x2 GB DDR3 RAM -- you don't need anything rated over 1333 MHz unless overclocking
GTX 460 -- 1 GB model if you're getting a 1920x1080 or larger resolution monitor; 768 MB model is also good; other cards like HD 6850 also good
HDD -- whatever 7200 rpm drive of whatever capacity you need -- Samsung Spinpoint, Western Digital Caviar Black/Blue, among others, are popular
Optical drive -- likewise, whatever you need here
Case -- Cooler Master HAF 912, Antec 300, NZXT Gamma or Evo are popular cheaper options with decent features and cooling
PSU -- some decent 400W or more would be fine with good headroom; even with really heavy overclocks, nothing over 500W needed
which leaves a couple hundred left for a decent TN monitor.
Generally, some good-quality budget PSUs include Antec Earthwatts (all varieties), OCZ StealthXStream 2, Seasonic S12 (all varieties), Silverstone Strider.
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I'm not sure what to make of that, or how much money it could go for. The price is definitely inflated by the CPU, since you can get an i7-950 (exactly the same, except the minor clock speed difference) for less than $300. And in a month, we'll have new CPUs that outperform it by a good margin, that cost less than $300.
Also, that's a strange PSU/case to throw in there, as you kind of concede. You'd definitely need a new PSU to SLI 2, not to mention 3, substantial GPUs. The Sonata III is designed to be quiet, and I don't think it'd be able to dissipate enough heat from any substantial SLI setup.
If somebody is running just a single GPU, why would they want that motherboard anyway? And I still don't see the need for LGA 1366 for most users anyhow...not that people don't buy it anyway.
edit: posted this before you took down the links  links back up
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On December 10 2010 11:01 Myrmidon wrote:I'm not sure what to make of that, or how much money it could go for. The price is definitely inflated by the CPU, since you can get an i7-950 (exactly the same, except the minor clock speed difference) for less than $300. And in a month, we'll have new CPUs that outperform it by a good margin, that cost less than $300. Also, that's a strange PSU/case to throw in there, as you kind of concede. You'd definitely need a new PSU to SLI 2, not to mention 3, substantial GPUs. The Sonata III is designed to be quiet, and I don't think it'd be able to dissipate enough heat from any substantial SLI setup. If somebody is running just a single GPU, why would they want that motherboard anyway? And I still don't see the need for LGA 1366 for most users anyhow...not that people don't buy it anyway. edit: posted this before you took down the links
Well got the mobo for myself a little while back and was going to SLI but went a different route and didnt want to purchase another card to put in it(my friend can get another to take advantage :D ). The processor retail is overpriced but still performs amazingly and can be overclocked as well. Just a rough estimate whatd you pay for it yourself?
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EPT
