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Nuwen
United States31 Posts
I was also looking at the Xigmatek Gigas case, but I wanted to read reviews and figure out whether it's an alienlemon type of thing or just a good deal. A little suspicious of anything with pre-installed water cooling, but my hardware spidey senses are pretty freakin outdated. Sweet, made shitty PSU -> spiffy PSU. Am shopping around for a better deal on RAM and reading about 120Hz monitors. | ||
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aBstractx
United States287 Posts
its not just sc2 either. just everythuing is choppy all the time, mostly videos loading slow, lagging a bit in these lag spike fashions. opening iem right now in full screen has a white blank screen for 1-2 seconds then finally comes in, same when exiting full screen. i dont think its my internet. 50 down 7 up 2500k 3.3 ghz z68-dsp xfx radeon 6770 | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On August 18 2012 00:15 Nuwen wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Lian Li microATX cases made me salivate (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112299), but I suspect cooling could be an issue if I'm overclocking? Case includes two 120mm fans. Think that'd work? I was also looking at the Xigmatek Gigas case, but I wanted to read reviews and figure out whether it's an alienlemon type of thing or just a good deal. A little suspicious of anything with pre-installed water cooling, but my hardware spidey senses are pretty freakin outdated. Sweet, made shitty PSU -> spiffy PSU. Am shopping around for a better deal on RAM and reading about 120Hz monitors. Cases don't have pre-installed liquid cooling, that's just not possible. Cooling isn't going to be an issue for an overclocked CPU and single GPU in the majority of cases, which includes all of Lian Li. | ||
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501TFX
Austria345 Posts
I'm thinking of building my own PC in the near future (2-3 months from now), because my current laptop will cause me a fucking stomach ulcer ... (It crashes all the freakin time ..) But enough of that. So: As I said, I'm thinking of building it in about 2-3 months (+/- 1 month) and my budget isn't all that high with about 600€ (+/- 150). But I don't plan on doing any fancy things with it (overclocking, dual GPU and whatnot), I just want to play SC2 problem free (no need for max settings, even tough only 60 fps on low settings isn't the preferred either, it should be able to run at least mid - high settings), while being able to browse, watch videos and all that kind of stuff. The computer doesn't need to be able to run 3 games at the same time or something, it just needs to have enough power to run 1 game at a time well. I'm a guy who tries to not upgrade all that often, so my cycle is somewhat of 2+ years. (Mostly because I'm pretty low on money) The screen I have right in front of me has a resolution of 1980x1020 and I may get hold of a free Win7 copy (no crack, don't worry), but that's not for sure, so don't count that in. I'm living in Austria, so one of the really only ways to get a hold of good computer parts is DiTech.at, out of experience they have a huge range of products, but beware, the site is in full German and I didn't find a way to display it in English, but I guess it's quite usable with Google translations, if you want to try it and see yourself. (Navigation is left, if you can overcome this, and got to the listing, than you did it I guess, computer parts are usually named in English) So that's the part with the questions, which is suggested in the OP. I'm not a complete noob when it comes down to PC's, but well .. I'm coming from the Laptop / Notebook side and never owned a PC before (I built a few already tough), so I don't really know much about the power of PC parts, I just know they tend to be way stronger than Laptop parts, right? So, if you want to help me and have the time (I don't want to sound like douche ^_^), then I would love some suggestions, which parts I should choose for my soon - PC. Is something like my wish even possible with that kind of budget? Thanks in advance for every suggestion! | ||
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Nuwen
United States31 Posts
Build shaved down to $1,266 with non-stupid RAM, GPU rethink, and better SSD (no case). (I hear the 660TI is relatively new stuff, according to Tom's hardware. I'm picking up the MSI brand clocked @ 1019mhz) Edit: All done! Lian Li V354 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112299 MSI Z77 G45 microatx http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130647 Rosewell Capstone @ 650w (My GPU requires 500w+ - are they lying to me?) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182263 GTX 660ti by MSI http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127696 i7 3770k http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501 Samsung 830 @ 256g http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147164 8g Crucial RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148544 23'' Asus monitor w/ HDMI, DVI, 250 cd/m2, (con: no display port, obv a budget item -> would field suggestions for a better monitor under $250) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236175 Cheap shitty burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151244 $1,436.91 w/ ~$55 mail-in rebates and a free copy of Borderlands 2. A review on the Lian Li v354 DOES say this fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064 ~140mm) fits inside the case, so I also have the option to add more after-market cooling. | ||
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elsemyano
United States33 Posts
On August 17 2012 09:57 Myrmidon wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 08:05 elsemyano wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 03:09 skyR wrote: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 02:43 elsemyano wrote: Hi guys, I'm a computer build virgin, so any and all help is much appreciated here. I'm looking for a decent performance PC to last me a long time, on a budget. I have done a bit of research into this, so hopefully I don't sound clueless with my requests, but if something I say here makes no sense, pleasee work with me and point out the problem, so that I don't live with ridiculous misconceptions of how PCs work for the rest of my life. Thanks <3 + Show Spoiler + If you request a build, please answer these questions. We will spend as much effort on your build as you spend on your answers to these questions! I urge people to abstain from providing builds unless all the questions are answered. What is your budget? I would prefer to keep everything under $700. What is your resolution? I think my current monitor is 1280x1024, but it is pretty awful, so I will probably upgrade to a decent 1920x1200 soon. Dual monitor capabilities would be nice, but definitely not a must. What are you using it for? As far as gaming, mostly Starcraft 2 with a few other games mixed in, but probably nothing super-new or much more graphics-intensive than SC2. At the very least, it needs to run SC2 on high-ultra smoothly (single monitor 1920x1200, probably 60Hz), and any other game I would play should be fine (even if on low graphics). I have no interest in streaming. Other than that, it will mostly be used for school, watching movies/videos/streams. No need for video editing/extreme photoshop capabilities (maybe a bit of photoshop though). What is your upgrade cycle? Durability/reliability is what I would like to emphasize here. I would like for the majority of this build to last a long time, at least 5+ years. (That's realistic for the CPU/Mobo, PSU, and storage right?) I can upgrade SOME of other components (GPU, RAM, HSF, storage) as necessary, but preferably not within 2-3 years of buying. When do you plan on building it? As soon as I select some parts, hopefully within a couple weeks, but I can wait a bit if there will be any expected discounts within a month or two that anyone knows of. Do you plan on overclocking? If it adds viable options and would save money for the build (keeping in mind the priority of long-lasting performance), I'm all for it. Even if I wouldn't need to OC anytime soon after building, having the option to do so in the future would be nice. Do you need an Operating System? Nope, get OS for free from my school B-). Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not immediately. If the PSU you guys have chosen from previous criteria can handle it and if a compatible motherboard can fit within the budget, then yes again, I'd want to have the option. Side note: How common is GPU overclocking and how much does it increase performance? Is it ok to OC both CPU and GPU simultaneously? Maybe if the heat management for that is less of an issue than getting a compatible mobo, I won't need SLI/CrossFire and could OC instead. Where are you buying your parts from? Microcenter, and anywhere online. I'm looking to take full advantage of Microcenter package deals/discounts and rebates. Oh since this isn't asked in the questionnaire, I'm looking to get an SSD-HDD combo. I guess as long as a 5400 HDD doesn't slow down opening of files significantly (vs 7200), I wouldn't mind saving some money there. I have a vague idea of the components I want and the price ranges they fall in, and I think (hope) $700 is a reasonable limit. Again huge thanks to the people in this thread in advance, you da best! If you have a vague idea of components than please post the list... you have a lot of "would be nice to have but not necessary" in your Q&A. If you're looking for a build to last five years performance wise than that's easy if you aren't going to do anything besides Starcraft II and similar demanding games. Most components will easily last more than five years but as with any other electronics, there is the possibility of the motherboard, CPU, PSU, and HDD dying. This is where warranty comes into play and with a $700 budget, you simply won't be able to afford the high-end parts that carry a longer warranty (eg. Caviar Green which is a 5400 RPM drive only carries a two year warranty as opposed to the 7200 RPM Caviar Black which carries five years, Corsair AX carries a seven year warranty as opposed to most other units which are five years of warranty.) GPU overclocking is done through software so it's a pretty easy performance boost for anyone willing to do it. You can overclock both GPU and CPU simultaneously without worry. CPU overclocking requires a K suffix processor (2500k, 3570k, etc) so that's $200 minimum + the motherboard which is going to be around $100. $700 budget isn't large enough to do overclocking along with getting a SSD + HDD, you would have to skimp on another component in order to achieve this. Don't even consider SLI / CrossfireX with a $700 budget. It's just going to end up being a waste of money. Thanks for the input! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could use what I save by going with a lower-end GPU to make sure I'm crossfire compatible for further down the road, when I can add on to my current $700 build, and get a second GPU, right? So the $700 doesn't have to include multi GPUs, or potential aftermarket HSF, etc. Only capability for the upgrades. Unless it still would not be worth it. Taking that into account, I might be able to squeeze in a Caviar Black too  On August 17 2012 04:15 MisterFred wrote: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 02:43 elsemyano wrote: Hi guys, I'm a computer build virgin, so any and all help is much appreciated here. I'm looking for a decent performance PC to last me a long time, on a budget. I have done a bit of research into this, so hopefully I don't sound clueless with my requests, but if something I say here makes no sense, pleasee work with me and point out the problem, so that I don't live with ridiculous misconceptions of how PCs work for the rest of my life. Thanks <3 + Show Spoiler + If you request a build, please answer these questions. We will spend as much effort on your build as you spend on your answers to these questions! I urge people to abstain from providing builds unless all the questions are answered. What is your budget? I would prefer to keep everything under $700. What is your resolution? I think my current monitor is 1280x1024, but it is pretty awful, so I will probably upgrade to a decent 1920x1200 soon. Dual monitor capabilities would be nice, but definitely not a must. What are you using it for? As far as gaming, mostly Starcraft 2 with a few other games mixed in, but probably nothing super-new or much more graphics-intensive than SC2. At the very least, it needs to run SC2 on high-ultra smoothly (single monitor 1920x1200, probably 60Hz), and any other game I would play should be fine (even if on low graphics). I have no interest in streaming. Other than that, it will mostly be used for school, watching movies/videos/streams. No need for video editing/extreme photoshop capabilities (maybe a bit of photoshop though). What is your upgrade cycle? Durability/reliability is what I would like to emphasize here. I would like for the majority of this build to last a long time, at least 5+ years. (That's realistic for the CPU/Mobo, PSU, and storage right?) I can upgrade SOME of other components (GPU, RAM, HSF, storage) as necessary, but preferably not within 2-3 years of buying. When do you plan on building it? As soon as I select some parts, hopefully within a couple weeks, but I can wait a bit if there will be any expected discounts within a month or two that anyone knows of. Do you plan on overclocking? If it adds viable options and would save money for the build (keeping in mind the priority of long-lasting performance), I'm all for it. Even if I wouldn't need to OC anytime soon after building, having the option to do so in the future would be nice. Do you need an Operating System? Nope, get OS for free from my school B-). Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not immediately. If the PSU you guys have chosen from previous criteria can handle it and if a compatible motherboard can fit within the budget, then yes again, I'd want to have the option. Side note: How common is GPU overclocking and how much does it increase performance? Is it ok to OC both CPU and GPU simultaneously? Maybe if the heat management for that is less of an issue than getting a compatible mobo, I won't need SLI/CrossFire and could OC instead. Where are you buying your parts from? Microcenter, and anywhere online. I'm looking to take full advantage of Microcenter package deals/discounts and rebates. Oh since this isn't asked in the questionnaire, I'm looking to get an SSD-HDD combo. I guess as long as a 5400 HDD doesn't slow down opening of files significantly (vs 7200), I wouldn't mind saving some money there. I have a vague idea of the components I want and the price ranges they fall in, and I think (hope) $700 is a reasonable limit. Again huge thanks to the people in this thread in advance, you da best! I think you're getting a little ambitious here for your budget. Although one thing to note is that SC2 requires very little graphics power to run compared to other games, which a lot of people don't realize. For SC2, what you buy depends somewhat on what you play. For 1v1s, 2v2s, and most normal circumstances, an Intel dual-core will do well for you. If you like to play lots of 3v3s & 4v4s and want super-smooth guaranteed in those circumstances, then an overclockable quad-core might be considered as well, even though that's going to run quite a bit more. Here's what I'd get given the priorities: Kills SC2, will be a very strong gaming processor for quite some time Plays other games decently, but not with super-high graphics settings @ 1920x1080 or 1920@1200 No other major resource-intensive tasks. + Show Spoiler + CPU: i5-3570k (~$204) (tax) http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0388577 Mobo: Gigabyte z77-DS3H (or Asrock z77 pro4 if on sale for same price as the Gigabyte) (~$68-$119) (the difference in price comes from whether this will be eligible for $50 off in combo with the i5-3570k. You'll have to call the specific store in question to check.) http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0388327 CPU Cooler: Coolermaster 212 Evo (~$33) http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0373900 GPU: EVGA 560 ($165, $135 AMIR, after registration get Adobe Elements 10 free) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130664 RAM: 2x4gb 1333mhz low profile kit ($30) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55544&vpn=996770&manufacture=Mushkin Enhanced&promoid=1043 Case: Antec One ($55) (good, modern budget case) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=67322&vpn=ONE&manufacture=Antec PSU: Antec Neo Eco 450c ($40) (If Myrmidon suggest something else, go with whatever he says, but this will do.) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO-ECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043 Seagate 2TB HDD ($100) (lots of space, could save a few $ here if you wanted) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=66010&vpn=ST2000DM001&manufacture=Seagate&promoid=1043 DVD-burner ($17) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=49597&vpn=DRW-24B1ST Bulk&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1043 Total (assuming $50 discount on motherboard): $713, $683 after mail-in-rebate Prices include shipping & a rough sales tax approximation for Microcenter items only (8%). + Show Spoiler + As an aside, does it amuse anyone else that most people who don't pay taxes on internet purchases are technically committing tax fraud? Normally for a gamer I'd recommend getting an i3 & cheap h61 mobo, then spending more on video card (one way to fit in an SSD as well). But this will give you a powerful overclockable quad-core, and the video card is overkill to max SC2 and should play any current game well on medium graphics (@1920x1080, right off it will max any game, this will change when you upgrade your monitor), and should last for awhile too. The CPU I recommended is overkill, but with microcenter deals, not insanely so. Note also that a budget SC2-streamlined rig could afford a monitor upgrade right off the bat, but there you'd be downgrading CPU to a non-overclockable dual-core (a pentium g850 + h61 mobo). Upgrades to look forward to: 1) A better monitor! Looks for a Dell u2312hm coming on sale (anywhere under $200) at the Dell website, then you can use your current monitor as a secondary non-gaming adjunct. 2) Quality 128gb SSD ($100-ish) 3) Better video card - this last one maybe some years down the road) Awesome, thank you! I guess it is pretty ambitious, but that's why I'm asking you guys for help haha. I think there's a lot of leeway here, and I'm open to suggestions. I was thinking i5 3570K + ASRock Z77 Pro4 myself. I can get these in tandem at microcenter for ~$260, and I think it'll be a worthwhile investment since I won't need to upgrade these and they'll last for quite a while. I think the most graphics intensive game I will play for a while would be like Civ4... I tend to play older games more and most likely won't be playing any new ones anytime soon (SC2 is the last game I bought). Like I said above, hopefully this will allow me to go with a relatively inexpensive graphics card with the option to upgrade later? + Show Spoiler + Here's what I'm lookin at: CPU: i5 3570K Mobo: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ~$260 - Microcenter GPU: XFX Radeon HD 6770 ~105 - NewEgg ($135 - $30MIR) http://pcpartpicker.com/part/xfx-video-card-hd677xznfc RAM: Corsair 8GB DDR3 - 1600 ~$45 - NewEgg http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cmx8gx3m2b1600c9 Case: NZXT Source 210 ~$40 - Microcenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0378074 PSU: Antec Neo ECO 450c ~40 - NCIX http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO-ECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043 HDD: Caviar Black, either 750GB at Adorama or 1TB at Amazon ~$100-110 http://pcpartpicker.com/mr/adorama/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd7502aaex http://pcpartpicker.com/mr/amazon/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd1002faex Optical $20 Total: $610-620 Immediate comments/concerns: - what do you guys think about that GPU (MisterFred: the free adobe elements is nice, but not a huge selling point for me) and RAM? Not enough/ too much? - the case is a stylistic choice more than anything, but also saves a bit of money. - I feel like the PSU is a pretty important component in terms of longevity/capability, right? Does this unit allow any room for OC? Since the GPU should use up less power, do you think it could work? - Do I need a CPU fan right away, even if I don't overclock for a while? - I honestly don't think I need 2TB of space. I'm currently working with 288GB (albeit struggling to fit some shows/movies  ), so 750/1TB should be plenty. The 5 year warranty is pretty appealing too. If I were to splurge over my limit a bit and get an SSD with this setup, which one would you recommend? I can always get the monitor later. So the build is starting to come together a little! So pumped... $700 isn't a budget where you should spend money and plan for multi-GPU setups. The cost is not worth the possibility for headaches down the road (managing multi-GPU setups). Down the line, once your graphics card has fallen to irrelevancy, you're not going to want to pair it with another of the same crap. You'll want whatever is new or has good price/performance then. GTX 560 is decent and actually more than you need. You could just get a HD 6850 for $130, if you wanted to save a little: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=56240 RAM is more than enough. It's not worth saving like $10 and getting just 4GB. More than 4GB is useful for some people, and honestly, there's not much to be saved here. Antec Neo Eco at that price is good. I mean, it probably wouldn't last 8 years unscathed, but it's hardly a junker. There's plenty of room there for upgrading and overclocking. You can buy the CPU cooler later, but uninstalling the old one, removing old thermal paste, and installing the new one when your motherboard is screwed into the case... that can be annoying, so you may as well just install the better one now, unless you really need to save there. If you want an SSD, get a Crucial M4 128GB or Intel 330 120GB. They shouldn't be over $100: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0364545 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0388571 A better monitor is probably more important than most things in the build, but that's something that can be added later. Reinstalling or migrating to an SSD is more of a pain, so if you were going to get one, do so now. I appreciate the explanation, didn't realize GPU tech becomes obsolete so quickly. Guess I'll drop the crossfire capabilities then... never liked em anyway..... On that note, GTX 560 looks like an amazing value, gonna go ahead and grab that. Quick question about RAM: should I be looking for a 1333 or 1600 set? I realize the 1333 can just OC to 1600 but will it make a difference in performance, longevity, etc with my build? Is 450w really enough for a bit of CPU overclocking with everything else there? The regular 560x load consumption is ~315W according to anandtech and the one MisterFred suggested (GTX 560) is 'superclocked'. Decided to grab a CPU fan and SSD now as well. Changed Caviar Black to Blue to save some money. BUILD 2.0 + Show Spoiler + CPU: i5 3570K Mobo: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ~$260 - Microcenter GPU: EVGA Superclocked GTX 560 ~140 - NewEgg ($165 - $30MIR) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130664 RAM: Crucial 8GB DDR3 - 1600 ~$36 - NewEgg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148544 Case: NZXT Source 210 ~$40 - Microcenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0378074 PSU: Antec Neo ECO 450c ~40 - NCIX http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO-ECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043 HDD: Caviar Blue 1TB ~$80 - NewEgg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236339 Optical $20 - MicroCenter SDD: Crucial M4 128GB ~$95 - MicroCenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0364545 HSF: CoolerMaster Hyper212 Plus 120mm ~$20 - NewEgg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065 Total: ~$735 So I did go a bit over $700, but it seems worth avoiding near-future upgrading/hassles. Again, concerns: - RAM: 1333 or 1600? - Does PSU need more power? - I could save more money with a cheaper/ maybe 750GB HDD, but will it crap out on me sooner than the CBlue? I'd like it to be problem-free at leaassst 2 years. - Any other general advice/improvements to the build? Much love, Sem | ||
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Risljaninasim
Netherlands228 Posts
What is your budget? 300 euros. 350 euros maximum if there is a big enough difference. What is your resolution? 1360 x 768 (will be higher in the near future) What are you using it for? Starcraft 2, streaming, some mid-high end games, movies music etc. What is your upgrade cycle? I don't really have one, 4 years maybe? When do you plan on building it? this week Do you plan on overclocking? I really don't know. Probably not, is there really that much benefit? Do you need an Operating System? No Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Nope Where are you buying your parts from? Preferably http://www.Mycom.nl but it doesn't really matter. Anything in the netherlands. I've got a Sapphire AMD HD6770, if that affects anything. If there's more information needed please ask, I'm not good at this. Thank you! | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On August 18 2012 03:07 Nuwen wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I can't afford a (good) 120Hz monitor anytime soon, so I've downgraded my card to a gtx 660ti. 1920x1080 is my gaming resolution. Adjusting other components n'stuff accordingly. Thanks for the catharsis, skyR. Build shaved down to $1,266 with non-stupid RAM, GPU rethink, and better SSD (no case). (I hear the 660TI is relatively new stuff, according to Tom's hardware. I'm picking up the MSI brand clocked @ 1019mhz) Edit: All done! Lian Li V354 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112299 MSI Z77 G45 microatx http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130647 Rosewell Capstone @ 650w (My GPU requires 500w+ - are they lying to me?) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182263 GTX 660ti by MSI http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127696 i7 3770k http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501 Samsung 830 @ 256g http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147164 8g Crucial RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148544 23'' Asus monitor w/ HDMI, DVI, 250 cd/m2, (con: no display port, obv a budget item -> would field suggestions for a better monitor under $250) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236175 Cheap shitty burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151244 $1,436.91 w/ ~$55 mail-in rebates and a free copy of Borderlands 2. A review on the Lian Li v354 DOES say this fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064 ~140mm) fits inside the case, so I also have the option to add more after-market cooling. U2312HM is under $250: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&sku=320-2807 Your GPU does not require 500w+. A GTX 660 Ti consumes roughly 130w during load. Manufacturers have to make reasonable recommendations because not all power supplies are created equal (some are advertised with peak power instead of continuous, some are older units that don't provide the majority of power on the 12v, some are just overrated units, etc), there are billions of possible configurations, and they can't expect consumers to do math or read properly. You can see that power consumption measurements for the card is done in most reviews (eg. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6159/the-geforce-gtx-660-ti-review/18 ). Most (99%) of these shows total system power consumption to be around 300w AC (measured at the wall), this figure is well under 450w so you can take it at face value without worrying about converting AC to DC. Also keep in mind these test benches are using an overclocked Sandybridge-E which uses significantly more power than Ivybridge. On August 18 2012 06:55 elsemyano wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 09:57 Myrmidon wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 08:05 elsemyano wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 03:09 skyR wrote: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 02:43 elsemyano wrote: Hi guys, I'm a computer build virgin, so any and all help is much appreciated here. I'm looking for a decent performance PC to last me a long time, on a budget. I have done a bit of research into this, so hopefully I don't sound clueless with my requests, but if something I say here makes no sense, pleasee work with me and point out the problem, so that I don't live with ridiculous misconceptions of how PCs work for the rest of my life. Thanks <3 + Show Spoiler + If you request a build, please answer these questions. We will spend as much effort on your build as you spend on your answers to these questions! I urge people to abstain from providing builds unless all the questions are answered. What is your budget? I would prefer to keep everything under $700. What is your resolution? I think my current monitor is 1280x1024, but it is pretty awful, so I will probably upgrade to a decent 1920x1200 soon. Dual monitor capabilities would be nice, but definitely not a must. What are you using it for? As far as gaming, mostly Starcraft 2 with a few other games mixed in, but probably nothing super-new or much more graphics-intensive than SC2. At the very least, it needs to run SC2 on high-ultra smoothly (single monitor 1920x1200, probably 60Hz), and any other game I would play should be fine (even if on low graphics). I have no interest in streaming. Other than that, it will mostly be used for school, watching movies/videos/streams. No need for video editing/extreme photoshop capabilities (maybe a bit of photoshop though). What is your upgrade cycle? Durability/reliability is what I would like to emphasize here. I would like for the majority of this build to last a long time, at least 5+ years. (That's realistic for the CPU/Mobo, PSU, and storage right?) I can upgrade SOME of other components (GPU, RAM, HSF, storage) as necessary, but preferably not within 2-3 years of buying. When do you plan on building it? As soon as I select some parts, hopefully within a couple weeks, but I can wait a bit if there will be any expected discounts within a month or two that anyone knows of. Do you plan on overclocking? If it adds viable options and would save money for the build (keeping in mind the priority of long-lasting performance), I'm all for it. Even if I wouldn't need to OC anytime soon after building, having the option to do so in the future would be nice. Do you need an Operating System? Nope, get OS for free from my school B-). Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not immediately. If the PSU you guys have chosen from previous criteria can handle it and if a compatible motherboard can fit within the budget, then yes again, I'd want to have the option. Side note: How common is GPU overclocking and how much does it increase performance? Is it ok to OC both CPU and GPU simultaneously? Maybe if the heat management for that is less of an issue than getting a compatible mobo, I won't need SLI/CrossFire and could OC instead. Where are you buying your parts from? Microcenter, and anywhere online. I'm looking to take full advantage of Microcenter package deals/discounts and rebates. Oh since this isn't asked in the questionnaire, I'm looking to get an SSD-HDD combo. I guess as long as a 5400 HDD doesn't slow down opening of files significantly (vs 7200), I wouldn't mind saving some money there. I have a vague idea of the components I want and the price ranges they fall in, and I think (hope) $700 is a reasonable limit. Again huge thanks to the people in this thread in advance, you da best! If you have a vague idea of components than please post the list... you have a lot of "would be nice to have but not necessary" in your Q&A. If you're looking for a build to last five years performance wise than that's easy if you aren't going to do anything besides Starcraft II and similar demanding games. Most components will easily last more than five years but as with any other electronics, there is the possibility of the motherboard, CPU, PSU, and HDD dying. This is where warranty comes into play and with a $700 budget, you simply won't be able to afford the high-end parts that carry a longer warranty (eg. Caviar Green which is a 5400 RPM drive only carries a two year warranty as opposed to the 7200 RPM Caviar Black which carries five years, Corsair AX carries a seven year warranty as opposed to most other units which are five years of warranty.) GPU overclocking is done through software so it's a pretty easy performance boost for anyone willing to do it. You can overclock both GPU and CPU simultaneously without worry. CPU overclocking requires a K suffix processor (2500k, 3570k, etc) so that's $200 minimum + the motherboard which is going to be around $100. $700 budget isn't large enough to do overclocking along with getting a SSD + HDD, you would have to skimp on another component in order to achieve this. Don't even consider SLI / CrossfireX with a $700 budget. It's just going to end up being a waste of money. Thanks for the input! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could use what I save by going with a lower-end GPU to make sure I'm crossfire compatible for further down the road, when I can add on to my current $700 build, and get a second GPU, right? So the $700 doesn't have to include multi GPUs, or potential aftermarket HSF, etc. Only capability for the upgrades. Unless it still would not be worth it. Taking that into account, I might be able to squeeze in a Caviar Black too On August 17 2012 04:15 MisterFred wrote: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 02:43 elsemyano wrote: Hi guys, I'm a computer build virgin, so any and all help is much appreciated here. I'm looking for a decent performance PC to last me a long time, on a budget. I have done a bit of research into this, so hopefully I don't sound clueless with my requests, but if something I say here makes no sense, pleasee work with me and point out the problem, so that I don't live with ridiculous misconceptions of how PCs work for the rest of my life. Thanks <3 + Show Spoiler + If you request a build, please answer these questions. We will spend as much effort on your build as you spend on your answers to these questions! I urge people to abstain from providing builds unless all the questions are answered. What is your budget? I would prefer to keep everything under $700. What is your resolution? I think my current monitor is 1280x1024, but it is pretty awful, so I will probably upgrade to a decent 1920x1200 soon. Dual monitor capabilities would be nice, but definitely not a must. What are you using it for? As far as gaming, mostly Starcraft 2 with a few other games mixed in, but probably nothing super-new or much more graphics-intensive than SC2. At the very least, it needs to run SC2 on high-ultra smoothly (single monitor 1920x1200, probably 60Hz), and any other game I would play should be fine (even if on low graphics). I have no interest in streaming. Other than that, it will mostly be used for school, watching movies/videos/streams. No need for video editing/extreme photoshop capabilities (maybe a bit of photoshop though). What is your upgrade cycle? Durability/reliability is what I would like to emphasize here. I would like for the majority of this build to last a long time, at least 5+ years. (That's realistic for the CPU/Mobo, PSU, and storage right?) I can upgrade SOME of other components (GPU, RAM, HSF, storage) as necessary, but preferably not within 2-3 years of buying. When do you plan on building it? As soon as I select some parts, hopefully within a couple weeks, but I can wait a bit if there will be any expected discounts within a month or two that anyone knows of. Do you plan on overclocking? If it adds viable options and would save money for the build (keeping in mind the priority of long-lasting performance), I'm all for it. Even if I wouldn't need to OC anytime soon after building, having the option to do so in the future would be nice. Do you need an Operating System? Nope, get OS for free from my school B-). Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not immediately. If the PSU you guys have chosen from previous criteria can handle it and if a compatible motherboard can fit within the budget, then yes again, I'd want to have the option. Side note: How common is GPU overclocking and how much does it increase performance? Is it ok to OC both CPU and GPU simultaneously? Maybe if the heat management for that is less of an issue than getting a compatible mobo, I won't need SLI/CrossFire and could OC instead. Where are you buying your parts from? Microcenter, and anywhere online. I'm looking to take full advantage of Microcenter package deals/discounts and rebates. Oh since this isn't asked in the questionnaire, I'm looking to get an SSD-HDD combo. I guess as long as a 5400 HDD doesn't slow down opening of files significantly (vs 7200), I wouldn't mind saving some money there. I have a vague idea of the components I want and the price ranges they fall in, and I think (hope) $700 is a reasonable limit. Again huge thanks to the people in this thread in advance, you da best! I think you're getting a little ambitious here for your budget. Although one thing to note is that SC2 requires very little graphics power to run compared to other games, which a lot of people don't realize. For SC2, what you buy depends somewhat on what you play. For 1v1s, 2v2s, and most normal circumstances, an Intel dual-core will do well for you. If you like to play lots of 3v3s & 4v4s and want super-smooth guaranteed in those circumstances, then an overclockable quad-core might be considered as well, even though that's going to run quite a bit more. Here's what I'd get given the priorities: Kills SC2, will be a very strong gaming processor for quite some time Plays other games decently, but not with super-high graphics settings @ 1920x1080 or 1920@1200 No other major resource-intensive tasks. + Show Spoiler + CPU: i5-3570k (~$204) (tax) http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0388577 Mobo: Gigabyte z77-DS3H (or Asrock z77 pro4 if on sale for same price as the Gigabyte) (~$68-$119) (the difference in price comes from whether this will be eligible for $50 off in combo with the i5-3570k. You'll have to call the specific store in question to check.) http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0388327 CPU Cooler: Coolermaster 212 Evo (~$33) http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0373900 GPU: EVGA 560 ($165, $135 AMIR, after registration get Adobe Elements 10 free) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130664 RAM: 2x4gb 1333mhz low profile kit ($30) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55544&vpn=996770&manufacture=Mushkin Enhanced&promoid=1043 Case: Antec One ($55) (good, modern budget case) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=67322&vpn=ONE&manufacture=Antec PSU: Antec Neo Eco 450c ($40) (If Myrmidon suggest something else, go with whatever he says, but this will do.) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO-ECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043 Seagate 2TB HDD ($100) (lots of space, could save a few $ here if you wanted) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=66010&vpn=ST2000DM001&manufacture=Seagate&promoid=1043 DVD-burner ($17) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=49597&vpn=DRW-24B1ST Bulk&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1043 Total (assuming $50 discount on motherboard): $713, $683 after mail-in-rebate Prices include shipping & a rough sales tax approximation for Microcenter items only (8%). + Show Spoiler + As an aside, does it amuse anyone else that most people who don't pay taxes on internet purchases are technically committing tax fraud? Normally for a gamer I'd recommend getting an i3 & cheap h61 mobo, then spending more on video card (one way to fit in an SSD as well). But this will give you a powerful overclockable quad-core, and the video card is overkill to max SC2 and should play any current game well on medium graphics (@1920x1080, right off it will max any game, this will change when you upgrade your monitor), and should last for awhile too. The CPU I recommended is overkill, but with microcenter deals, not insanely so. Note also that a budget SC2-streamlined rig could afford a monitor upgrade right off the bat, but there you'd be downgrading CPU to a non-overclockable dual-core (a pentium g850 + h61 mobo). Upgrades to look forward to: 1) A better monitor! Looks for a Dell u2312hm coming on sale (anywhere under $200) at the Dell website, then you can use your current monitor as a secondary non-gaming adjunct. 2) Quality 128gb SSD ($100-ish) 3) Better video card - this last one maybe some years down the road) Awesome, thank you! I guess it is pretty ambitious, but that's why I'm asking you guys for help haha. I think there's a lot of leeway here, and I'm open to suggestions. I was thinking i5 3570K + ASRock Z77 Pro4 myself. I can get these in tandem at microcenter for ~$260, and I think it'll be a worthwhile investment since I won't need to upgrade these and they'll last for quite a while. I think the most graphics intensive game I will play for a while would be like Civ4... I tend to play older games more and most likely won't be playing any new ones anytime soon (SC2 is the last game I bought). Like I said above, hopefully this will allow me to go with a relatively inexpensive graphics card with the option to upgrade later? + Show Spoiler + Here's what I'm lookin at: CPU: i5 3570K Mobo: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ~$260 - Microcenter GPU: XFX Radeon HD 6770 ~105 - NewEgg ($135 - $30MIR) http://pcpartpicker.com/part/xfx-video-card-hd677xznfc RAM: Corsair 8GB DDR3 - 1600 ~$45 - NewEgg http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cmx8gx3m2b1600c9 Case: NZXT Source 210 ~$40 - Microcenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0378074 PSU: Antec Neo ECO 450c ~40 - NCIX http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO-ECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043 HDD: Caviar Black, either 750GB at Adorama or 1TB at Amazon ~$100-110 http://pcpartpicker.com/mr/adorama/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd7502aaex http://pcpartpicker.com/mr/amazon/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd1002faex Optical $20 Total: $610-620 Immediate comments/concerns: - what do you guys think about that GPU (MisterFred: the free adobe elements is nice, but not a huge selling point for me) and RAM? Not enough/ too much? - the case is a stylistic choice more than anything, but also saves a bit of money. - I feel like the PSU is a pretty important component in terms of longevity/capability, right? Does this unit allow any room for OC? Since the GPU should use up less power, do you think it could work? - Do I need a CPU fan right away, even if I don't overclock for a while? - I honestly don't think I need 2TB of space. I'm currently working with 288GB (albeit struggling to fit some shows/movies ), so 750/1TB should be plenty. The 5 year warranty is pretty appealing too. If I were to splurge over my limit a bit and get an SSD with this setup, which one would you recommend? I can always get the monitor later. So the build is starting to come together a little! So pumped... $700 isn't a budget where you should spend money and plan for multi-GPU setups. The cost is not worth the possibility for headaches down the road (managing multi-GPU setups). Down the line, once your graphics card has fallen to irrelevancy, you're not going to want to pair it with another of the same crap. You'll want whatever is new or has good price/performance then. GTX 560 is decent and actually more than you need. You could just get a HD 6850 for $130, if you wanted to save a little: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=56240 RAM is more than enough. It's not worth saving like $10 and getting just 4GB. More than 4GB is useful for some people, and honestly, there's not much to be saved here. Antec Neo Eco at that price is good. I mean, it probably wouldn't last 8 years unscathed, but it's hardly a junker. There's plenty of room there for upgrading and overclocking. You can buy the CPU cooler later, but uninstalling the old one, removing old thermal paste, and installing the new one when your motherboard is screwed into the case... that can be annoying, so you may as well just install the better one now, unless you really need to save there. If you want an SSD, get a Crucial M4 128GB or Intel 330 120GB. They shouldn't be over $100: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0364545 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0388571 A better monitor is probably more important than most things in the build, but that's something that can be added later. Reinstalling or migrating to an SSD is more of a pain, so if you were going to get one, do so now. I appreciate the explanation, didn't realize GPU tech becomes obsolete so quickly. Guess I'll drop the crossfire capabilities then... never liked em anyway..... On that note, GTX 560 looks like an amazing value, gonna go ahead and grab that. Quick question about RAM: should I be looking for a 1333 or 1600 set? I realize the 1333 can just OC to 1600 but will it make a difference in performance, longevity, etc with my build? Is 450w really enough for a bit of CPU overclocking with everything else there? The regular 560x load consumption is ~315W according to anandtech and the one MisterFred suggested (GTX 560) is 'superclocked'. Decided to grab a CPU fan and SSD now as well. Changed Caviar Black to Blue to save some money. BUILD 2.0 + Show Spoiler + CPU: i5 3570K Mobo: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ~$260 - Microcenter GPU: EVGA Superclocked GTX 560 ~140 - NewEgg ($165 - $30MIR) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130664 RAM: Crucial 8GB DDR3 - 1600 ~$36 - NewEgg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148544 Case: NZXT Source 210 ~$40 - Microcenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0378074 PSU: Antec Neo ECO 450c ~40 - NCIX http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO-ECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043 HDD: Caviar Blue 1TB ~$80 - NewEgg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236339 Optical $20 - MicroCenter SDD: Crucial M4 128GB ~$95 - MicroCenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0364545 HSF: CoolerMaster Hyper212 Plus 120mm ~$20 - NewEgg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065 Total: ~$735 So I did go a bit over $700, but it seems worth avoiding near-future upgrading/hassles. Again, concerns: - RAM: 1333 or 1600? - Does PSU need more power? - I could save more money with a cheaper/ maybe 750GB HDD, but will it crap out on me sooner than the CBlue? I'd like it to be problem-free at leaassst 2 years. - Any other general advice/improvements to the build? Much love, Sem No the load consumption of a GTX 560 is not 315w. Read the chart again. It says full system power consumption. I explained it above in my reply to Nuwen. Difference between 1333MHz and 1600MHz is less than 1 FPS. Don't concern yourself about memory with this kind of budget. Just get the less expensive 1333MHz cas9 1.5v kit. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On August 18 2012 02:43 FeelTHeBluEZ wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey, I'm thinking of building my own PC in the near future (2-3 months from now), because my current laptop will cause me a fucking stomach ulcer ... (It crashes all the freakin time ..) But enough of that. So: As I said, I'm thinking of building it in about 2-3 months (+/- 1 month) and my budget isn't all that high with about 600€ (+/- 150). But I don't plan on doing any fancy things with it (overclocking, dual GPU and whatnot), I just want to play SC2 problem free (no need for max settings, even tough only 60 fps on low settings isn't the preferred either, it should be able to run at least mid - high settings), while being able to browse, watch videos and all that kind of stuff. The computer doesn't need to be able to run 3 games at the same time or something, it just needs to have enough power to run 1 game at a time well. I'm a guy who tries to not upgrade all that often, so my cycle is somewhat of 2+ years. (Mostly because I'm pretty low on money) The screen I have right in front of me has a resolution of 1980x1020 and I may get hold of a free Win7 copy (no crack, don't worry), but that's not for sure, so don't count that in. I'm living in Austria, so one of the really only ways to get a hold of good computer parts is DiTech.at, out of experience they have a huge range of products, but beware, the site is in full German and I didn't find a way to display it in English, but I guess it's quite usable with Google translations, if you want to try it and see yourself. (Navigation is left, if you can overcome this, and got to the listing, than you did it I guess, computer parts are usually named in English) So that's the part with the questions, which is suggested in the OP. I'm not a complete noob when it comes down to PC's, but well .. I'm coming from the Laptop / Notebook side and never owned a PC before (I built a few already tough), so I don't really know much about the power of PC parts, I just know they tend to be way stronger than Laptop parts, right? So, if you want to help me and have the time (I don't want to sound like douche ^_^), then I would love some suggestions, which parts I should choose for my soon - PC. Is something like my wish even possible with that kind of budget? Thanks in advance for every suggestion! Come back closer to when you're going to buy. Prices will shift by then, and maybe Nvidia will finally release GK106-based graphics cards by then. Have you considered ordering from Germany? For example, hardwareversand ships to Austria for 10 Euros; some of the other large German retailers do too, I think. On August 18 2012 03:07 Nuwen wrote: + Show Spoiler + I can't afford a (good) 120Hz monitor anytime soon, so I've downgraded my card to a gtx 660ti. 1920x1080 is my gaming resolution. Adjusting other components n'stuff accordingly. Thanks for the catharsis, skyR. Build shaved down to $1,266 with non-stupid RAM, GPU rethink, and better SSD (no case). (I hear the 660TI is relatively new stuff, according to Tom's hardware. I'm picking up the MSI brand clocked @ 1019mhz) Edit: All done! Lian Li V354 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112299 MSI Z77 G45 microatx http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130647 Rosewell Capstone @ 650w (My GPU requires 500w+ - are they lying to me?) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182263 GTX 660ti by MSI http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127696 i7 3770k http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501 Samsung 830 @ 256g http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147164 8g Crucial RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148544 23'' Asus monitor w/ HDMI, DVI, 250 cd/m2, (con: no display port, obv a budget item -> would field suggestions for a better monitor under $250) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236175 Cheap shitty burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151244 $1,436.91 w/ ~$55 mail-in rebates and a free copy of Borderlands 2. A review on the Lian Li v354 DOES say this fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064 ~140mm) fits inside the case, so I also have the option to add more after-market cooling. Keep in mind that that Lian Li case is (1) expensive, (2) doesn't allow for taller CPU coolers, and They're lying to you about power supply requirements, for a number of reasons. Just listen to what people here are telling you. I still think that with some smarter picks and maybe sacrificing SSD capacity some, you could easily have room in the budget for a decent 120 Hz monitor. Asus VS238H-P should be a reasonable 60 Hz TN monitor with limited adjustments, but there's no reason to settle for that. On August 18 2012 06:55 elsemyano wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 09:57 Myrmidon wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 08:05 elsemyano wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 03:09 skyR wrote: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 02:43 elsemyano wrote: Hi guys, I'm a computer build virgin, so any and all help is much appreciated here. I'm looking for a decent performance PC to last me a long time, on a budget. I have done a bit of research into this, so hopefully I don't sound clueless with my requests, but if something I say here makes no sense, pleasee work with me and point out the problem, so that I don't live with ridiculous misconceptions of how PCs work for the rest of my life. Thanks <3 + Show Spoiler + If you request a build, please answer these questions. We will spend as much effort on your build as you spend on your answers to these questions! I urge people to abstain from providing builds unless all the questions are answered. What is your budget? I would prefer to keep everything under $700. What is your resolution? I think my current monitor is 1280x1024, but it is pretty awful, so I will probably upgrade to a decent 1920x1200 soon. Dual monitor capabilities would be nice, but definitely not a must. What are you using it for? As far as gaming, mostly Starcraft 2 with a few other games mixed in, but probably nothing super-new or much more graphics-intensive than SC2. At the very least, it needs to run SC2 on high-ultra smoothly (single monitor 1920x1200, probably 60Hz), and any other game I would play should be fine (even if on low graphics). I have no interest in streaming. Other than that, it will mostly be used for school, watching movies/videos/streams. No need for video editing/extreme photoshop capabilities (maybe a bit of photoshop though). What is your upgrade cycle? Durability/reliability is what I would like to emphasize here. I would like for the majority of this build to last a long time, at least 5+ years. (That's realistic for the CPU/Mobo, PSU, and storage right?) I can upgrade SOME of other components (GPU, RAM, HSF, storage) as necessary, but preferably not within 2-3 years of buying. When do you plan on building it? As soon as I select some parts, hopefully within a couple weeks, but I can wait a bit if there will be any expected discounts within a month or two that anyone knows of. Do you plan on overclocking? If it adds viable options and would save money for the build (keeping in mind the priority of long-lasting performance), I'm all for it. Even if I wouldn't need to OC anytime soon after building, having the option to do so in the future would be nice. Do you need an Operating System? Nope, get OS for free from my school B-). Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not immediately. If the PSU you guys have chosen from previous criteria can handle it and if a compatible motherboard can fit within the budget, then yes again, I'd want to have the option. Side note: How common is GPU overclocking and how much does it increase performance? Is it ok to OC both CPU and GPU simultaneously? Maybe if the heat management for that is less of an issue than getting a compatible mobo, I won't need SLI/CrossFire and could OC instead. Where are you buying your parts from? Microcenter, and anywhere online. I'm looking to take full advantage of Microcenter package deals/discounts and rebates. Oh since this isn't asked in the questionnaire, I'm looking to get an SSD-HDD combo. I guess as long as a 5400 HDD doesn't slow down opening of files significantly (vs 7200), I wouldn't mind saving some money there. I have a vague idea of the components I want and the price ranges they fall in, and I think (hope) $700 is a reasonable limit. Again huge thanks to the people in this thread in advance, you da best! If you have a vague idea of components than please post the list... you have a lot of "would be nice to have but not necessary" in your Q&A. If you're looking for a build to last five years performance wise than that's easy if you aren't going to do anything besides Starcraft II and similar demanding games. Most components will easily last more than five years but as with any other electronics, there is the possibility of the motherboard, CPU, PSU, and HDD dying. This is where warranty comes into play and with a $700 budget, you simply won't be able to afford the high-end parts that carry a longer warranty (eg. Caviar Green which is a 5400 RPM drive only carries a two year warranty as opposed to the 7200 RPM Caviar Black which carries five years, Corsair AX carries a seven year warranty as opposed to most other units which are five years of warranty.) GPU overclocking is done through software so it's a pretty easy performance boost for anyone willing to do it. You can overclock both GPU and CPU simultaneously without worry. CPU overclocking requires a K suffix processor (2500k, 3570k, etc) so that's $200 minimum + the motherboard which is going to be around $100. $700 budget isn't large enough to do overclocking along with getting a SSD + HDD, you would have to skimp on another component in order to achieve this. Don't even consider SLI / CrossfireX with a $700 budget. It's just going to end up being a waste of money. Thanks for the input! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could use what I save by going with a lower-end GPU to make sure I'm crossfire compatible for further down the road, when I can add on to my current $700 build, and get a second GPU, right? So the $700 doesn't have to include multi GPUs, or potential aftermarket HSF, etc. Only capability for the upgrades. Unless it still would not be worth it. Taking that into account, I might be able to squeeze in a Caviar Black too On August 17 2012 04:15 MisterFred wrote: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 02:43 elsemyano wrote: Hi guys, I'm a computer build virgin, so any and all help is much appreciated here. I'm looking for a decent performance PC to last me a long time, on a budget. I have done a bit of research into this, so hopefully I don't sound clueless with my requests, but if something I say here makes no sense, pleasee work with me and point out the problem, so that I don't live with ridiculous misconceptions of how PCs work for the rest of my life. Thanks <3 + Show Spoiler + If you request a build, please answer these questions. We will spend as much effort on your build as you spend on your answers to these questions! I urge people to abstain from providing builds unless all the questions are answered. What is your budget? I would prefer to keep everything under $700. What is your resolution? I think my current monitor is 1280x1024, but it is pretty awful, so I will probably upgrade to a decent 1920x1200 soon. Dual monitor capabilities would be nice, but definitely not a must. What are you using it for? As far as gaming, mostly Starcraft 2 with a few other games mixed in, but probably nothing super-new or much more graphics-intensive than SC2. At the very least, it needs to run SC2 on high-ultra smoothly (single monitor 1920x1200, probably 60Hz), and any other game I would play should be fine (even if on low graphics). I have no interest in streaming. Other than that, it will mostly be used for school, watching movies/videos/streams. No need for video editing/extreme photoshop capabilities (maybe a bit of photoshop though). What is your upgrade cycle? Durability/reliability is what I would like to emphasize here. I would like for the majority of this build to last a long time, at least 5+ years. (That's realistic for the CPU/Mobo, PSU, and storage right?) I can upgrade SOME of other components (GPU, RAM, HSF, storage) as necessary, but preferably not within 2-3 years of buying. When do you plan on building it? As soon as I select some parts, hopefully within a couple weeks, but I can wait a bit if there will be any expected discounts within a month or two that anyone knows of. Do you plan on overclocking? If it adds viable options and would save money for the build (keeping in mind the priority of long-lasting performance), I'm all for it. Even if I wouldn't need to OC anytime soon after building, having the option to do so in the future would be nice. Do you need an Operating System? Nope, get OS for free from my school B-). Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Not immediately. If the PSU you guys have chosen from previous criteria can handle it and if a compatible motherboard can fit within the budget, then yes again, I'd want to have the option. Side note: How common is GPU overclocking and how much does it increase performance? Is it ok to OC both CPU and GPU simultaneously? Maybe if the heat management for that is less of an issue than getting a compatible mobo, I won't need SLI/CrossFire and could OC instead. Where are you buying your parts from? Microcenter, and anywhere online. I'm looking to take full advantage of Microcenter package deals/discounts and rebates. Oh since this isn't asked in the questionnaire, I'm looking to get an SSD-HDD combo. I guess as long as a 5400 HDD doesn't slow down opening of files significantly (vs 7200), I wouldn't mind saving some money there. I have a vague idea of the components I want and the price ranges they fall in, and I think (hope) $700 is a reasonable limit. Again huge thanks to the people in this thread in advance, you da best! I think you're getting a little ambitious here for your budget. Although one thing to note is that SC2 requires very little graphics power to run compared to other games, which a lot of people don't realize. For SC2, what you buy depends somewhat on what you play. For 1v1s, 2v2s, and most normal circumstances, an Intel dual-core will do well for you. If you like to play lots of 3v3s & 4v4s and want super-smooth guaranteed in those circumstances, then an overclockable quad-core might be considered as well, even though that's going to run quite a bit more. Here's what I'd get given the priorities: Kills SC2, will be a very strong gaming processor for quite some time Plays other games decently, but not with super-high graphics settings @ 1920x1080 or 1920@1200 No other major resource-intensive tasks. + Show Spoiler + CPU: i5-3570k (~$204) (tax) http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0388577 Mobo: Gigabyte z77-DS3H (or Asrock z77 pro4 if on sale for same price as the Gigabyte) (~$68-$119) (the difference in price comes from whether this will be eligible for $50 off in combo with the i5-3570k. You'll have to call the specific store in question to check.) http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0388327 CPU Cooler: Coolermaster 212 Evo (~$33) http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0373900 GPU: EVGA 560 ($165, $135 AMIR, after registration get Adobe Elements 10 free) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130664 RAM: 2x4gb 1333mhz low profile kit ($30) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55544&vpn=996770&manufacture=Mushkin Enhanced&promoid=1043 Case: Antec One ($55) (good, modern budget case) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=67322&vpn=ONE&manufacture=Antec PSU: Antec Neo Eco 450c ($40) (If Myrmidon suggest something else, go with whatever he says, but this will do.) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO-ECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043 Seagate 2TB HDD ($100) (lots of space, could save a few $ here if you wanted) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=66010&vpn=ST2000DM001&manufacture=Seagate&promoid=1043 DVD-burner ($17) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=49597&vpn=DRW-24B1ST Bulk&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1043 Total (assuming $50 discount on motherboard): $713, $683 after mail-in-rebate Prices include shipping & a rough sales tax approximation for Microcenter items only (8%). + Show Spoiler + As an aside, does it amuse anyone else that most people who don't pay taxes on internet purchases are technically committing tax fraud? Normally for a gamer I'd recommend getting an i3 & cheap h61 mobo, then spending more on video card (one way to fit in an SSD as well). But this will give you a powerful overclockable quad-core, and the video card is overkill to max SC2 and should play any current game well on medium graphics (@1920x1080, right off it will max any game, this will change when you upgrade your monitor), and should last for awhile too. The CPU I recommended is overkill, but with microcenter deals, not insanely so. Note also that a budget SC2-streamlined rig could afford a monitor upgrade right off the bat, but there you'd be downgrading CPU to a non-overclockable dual-core (a pentium g850 + h61 mobo). Upgrades to look forward to: 1) A better monitor! Looks for a Dell u2312hm coming on sale (anywhere under $200) at the Dell website, then you can use your current monitor as a secondary non-gaming adjunct. 2) Quality 128gb SSD ($100-ish) 3) Better video card - this last one maybe some years down the road) Awesome, thank you! I guess it is pretty ambitious, but that's why I'm asking you guys for help haha. I think there's a lot of leeway here, and I'm open to suggestions. I was thinking i5 3570K + ASRock Z77 Pro4 myself. I can get these in tandem at microcenter for ~$260, and I think it'll be a worthwhile investment since I won't need to upgrade these and they'll last for quite a while. I think the most graphics intensive game I will play for a while would be like Civ4... I tend to play older games more and most likely won't be playing any new ones anytime soon (SC2 is the last game I bought). Like I said above, hopefully this will allow me to go with a relatively inexpensive graphics card with the option to upgrade later? + Show Spoiler + Here's what I'm lookin at: CPU: i5 3570K Mobo: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ~$260 - Microcenter GPU: XFX Radeon HD 6770 ~105 - NewEgg ($135 - $30MIR) http://pcpartpicker.com/part/xfx-video-card-hd677xznfc RAM: Corsair 8GB DDR3 - 1600 ~$45 - NewEgg http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cmx8gx3m2b1600c9 Case: NZXT Source 210 ~$40 - Microcenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0378074 PSU: Antec Neo ECO 450c ~40 - NCIX http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO-ECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043 HDD: Caviar Black, either 750GB at Adorama or 1TB at Amazon ~$100-110 http://pcpartpicker.com/mr/adorama/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd7502aaex http://pcpartpicker.com/mr/amazon/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd1002faex Optical $20 Total: $610-620 Immediate comments/concerns: - what do you guys think about that GPU (MisterFred: the free adobe elements is nice, but not a huge selling point for me) and RAM? Not enough/ too much? - the case is a stylistic choice more than anything, but also saves a bit of money. - I feel like the PSU is a pretty important component in terms of longevity/capability, right? Does this unit allow any room for OC? Since the GPU should use up less power, do you think it could work? - Do I need a CPU fan right away, even if I don't overclock for a while? - I honestly don't think I need 2TB of space. I'm currently working with 288GB (albeit struggling to fit some shows/movies ), so 750/1TB should be plenty. The 5 year warranty is pretty appealing too. If I were to splurge over my limit a bit and get an SSD with this setup, which one would you recommend? I can always get the monitor later. So the build is starting to come together a little! So pumped... $700 isn't a budget where you should spend money and plan for multi-GPU setups. The cost is not worth the possibility for headaches down the road (managing multi-GPU setups). Down the line, once your graphics card has fallen to irrelevancy, you're not going to want to pair it with another of the same crap. You'll want whatever is new or has good price/performance then. GTX 560 is decent and actually more than you need. You could just get a HD 6850 for $130, if you wanted to save a little: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=56240 RAM is more than enough. It's not worth saving like $10 and getting just 4GB. More than 4GB is useful for some people, and honestly, there's not much to be saved here. Antec Neo Eco at that price is good. I mean, it probably wouldn't last 8 years unscathed, but it's hardly a junker. There's plenty of room there for upgrading and overclocking. You can buy the CPU cooler later, but uninstalling the old one, removing old thermal paste, and installing the new one when your motherboard is screwed into the case... that can be annoying, so you may as well just install the better one now, unless you really need to save there. If you want an SSD, get a Crucial M4 128GB or Intel 330 120GB. They shouldn't be over $100: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0364545 http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0388571 A better monitor is probably more important than most things in the build, but that's something that can be added later. Reinstalling or migrating to an SSD is more of a pain, so if you were going to get one, do so now. I appreciate the explanation, didn't realize GPU tech becomes obsolete so quickly. Guess I'll drop the crossfire capabilities then... never liked em anyway..... On that note, GTX 560 looks like an amazing value, gonna go ahead and grab that. Quick question about RAM: should I be looking for a 1333 or 1600 set? I realize the 1333 can just OC to 1600 but will it make a difference in performance, longevity, etc with my build? Is 450w really enough for a bit of CPU overclocking with everything else there? The regular 560x load consumption is ~315W according to anandtech and the one MisterFred suggested (GTX 560) is 'superclocked'. Decided to grab a CPU fan and SSD now as well. Changed Caviar Black to Blue to save some money. BUILD 2.0 + Show Spoiler + CPU: i5 3570K Mobo: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ~$260 - Microcenter GPU: EVGA Superclocked GTX 560 ~140 - NewEgg ($165 - $30MIR) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130664 RAM: Crucial 8GB DDR3 - 1600 ~$36 - NewEgg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148544 Case: NZXT Source 210 ~$40 - Microcenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0378074 PSU: Antec Neo ECO 450c ~40 - NCIX http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO-ECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043 HDD: Caviar Blue 1TB ~$80 - NewEgg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236339 Optical $20 - MicroCenter SDD: Crucial M4 128GB ~$95 - MicroCenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0364545 HSF: CoolerMaster Hyper212 Plus 120mm ~$20 - NewEgg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065 Total: ~$735 So I did go a bit over $700, but it seems worth avoiding near-future upgrading/hassles. Again, concerns: - RAM: 1333 or 1600? - Does PSU need more power? - I could save more money with a cheaper/ maybe 750GB HDD, but will it crap out on me sooner than the CBlue? I'd like it to be problem-free at leaassst 2 years. - Any other general advice/improvements to the build? Much love, Sem 1600 MHz RAM is a little better. You can get some 0-3% improvement in some applications over 1333 MHz RAM, generally on the lower side of that range though. In terms of reliability, it could possibly be worse if you expect it to run at the rated speed, but it's not like there's really much difference in terms of anything. Whether or not it's worth several bucks difference in price is up to you. Neo Eco 450C is plenty for that build, but you will have to make use of the molex -> PCIe power adapter that comes with the graphics card packaging, since the power supply only has one of two cables natively. You can save money on the hard drive if you want. Predicting failure rates is pretty difficult; nobody puts out crap that they expect to die ASAP. In this capacity range, I wouldn't expect much correlation with size and reliability. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On August 18 2012 07:48 skyR wrote: Lian Li V-354 does fit all graphics cards as the HDD cage is removable. Doh, should've looked closer or checked a review. After all, they look really really flimsy and vibration-prone, on top of having few mounting points. They're usually not affixed that way unless they're removable. | ||
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aBstractx
United States287 Posts
is there any way to check on the health of my pc? idk whats wrong but im stuttering when playing sc2, just doesnt feel right my specs should handle sc2 @ medium perfectly. its just lag spikes every 5 or 10 seconds maybe, extremely annoying. its not just sc2 either. just everythuing is choppy all the time, mostly videos loading slow, lagging a bit in these lag spike fashions. opening iem right now in full screen has a white blank screen for 1-2 seconds then finally comes in, same when exiting full screen. i dont think its my internet. 50 down 7 up 2500k 3.3 ghz z68-dsp xfx radeon 6770 | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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Hierarch
United States2197 Posts
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On August 18 2012 10:15 aBstractx wrote: is there any way to check on the health of my pc? idk whats wrong but im stuttering when playing sc2, just doesnt feel right my specs should handle sc2 @ medium perfectly. its just lag spikes every 5 or 10 seconds maybe, extremely annoying. its not just sc2 either. just everythuing is choppy all the time, mostly videos loading slow, lagging a bit in these lag spike fashions. opening iem right now in full screen has a white blank screen for 1-2 seconds then finally comes in, same when exiting full screen. i dont think its my internet. 50 down 7 up 2500k 3.3 ghz z68-dsp xfx radeon 6770 Patch 1.5 caused massive amounts of issues with framerates and spikes for lots of people, including myself (4.4 gHz 2500k, 560ti on ~medium), which is most likely what the issue is. Do you use the preloader custom map each time you play? On August 18 2012 13:31 Hierarch wrote: If my case has space for more fans should I be adding fans to those spots, or does it not make any difference? Also what temperatures should my components be running at safely? You don't need to add fans. If your cpu is a sandy/ivy, below 65 is absolutely fine, it's only really possibly an issue at 75+. For gpu, under 80 is dandy. (under full load of course, idle temperatures mean zilch) | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
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CouchWarrior
15 Posts
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
On August 18 2012 17:45 Womwomwom wrote: Probably fine. Just seems like your typical new electronics smell. I fuucccking love new electronics, except when there is $20 discount on three of the parts just one week after I bought them. | ||
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CouchWarrior
15 Posts
On August 18 2012 20:04 CouchWarrior wrote: Also with a promo code + a 15 dollar gift card that I have for newegg it would bring the mobo to around 45$.Would This motherboard and cpu be a solid alternative to the i7 26xx/37xx? What are the drawbacks besides no OC'ing?(doesnt interest me). This setup would be used to stream sc2 in HD. | ||
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