On October 13 2008 22:48 danieldrsa wrote: But what you think of Colossus? Dont you agree it sucks at worker killing?
It still deals 16 line damage so three shots and you just killed a lot of workers. The animation is not a representation of the attack, it deals its damage in all of the area instantly when the beam hits the right side, the rest of the animation is just there for show.
16 line damage? LoL 3 shots to kill workers? double LoL
If its true, Colossi are the most useless piece of protoss army (cost/benefits)
On October 13 2008 12:44 danieldrsa wrote: Man what i,ve noted is that Colossus sucks at worker killing. In SC1, if you put your reaver behind minerals and shoots its bye to close workers. In Yellow game we see him attacking with colossus to no effect, its hilarious, not even 1 dead worker. Such a expensive unit cant cause 40 damage on 1 hit? They say it causes more than 100 damage over timer but its so slow its impraticable against human opponents. And the predetermined line path was terrible to me also, it must be perfect positioned to hit various units (and the low damage dont help as i said before).
The bad thing is, they put a War3 Noob (lol) against a SC pro, and the pro was playing Protoss, so i think its natural people say its imbalanced toward toss side. The Zerg had 3 bases (!) minning and let Protoss (Yellow) with only one base build one huge Stalker army. It was hilarious seeing 24+ Stalkers vs 8 hydras and some zerglings. Really dont know where zerg put his money. Even made me think Stalkers are Imba, what i think its not the case.
1) SonKie is good at WC3 2) Yellow had an expansion in both games.
On October 13 2008 19:46 Ki_Do wrote: unless they can remove mbs in a patch the game isnt ready yet =)
Don't see why they wouldn't be able to do that, however, they won't.
Maybe if everyone in beta told them how much they hated MBS, but I think it will be there in some form. MBS that only allowed you to set rally points would be nice... Or being able to select multiple buildings but not hotkey them.
I was kidding when i say War3 Noob, ive read the blog where someone from TL says to Sonkie (not knowing it was him) that the War3 Noob was awful (lol). But what you think of Colossus? Dont you agree it sucks at worker killing?
Yeah the colossus made me sad, bring the reaver back
On October 13 2008 22:48 danieldrsa wrote: But what you think of Colossus? Dont you agree it sucks at worker killing?
It still deals 16 line damage so three shots and you just killed a lot of workers. The animation is not a representation of the attack, it deals its damage in all of the area instantly when the beam hits the right side, the rest of the animation is just there for show.
16 line damage? LoL 3 shots to kill workers? double LoL
If its true, Colossi are the most useless piece of protoss army (cost/benefits)
When it did 25 damage it were seriously op though.
Yeah the colossus made me sad, bring the reaver back
If colossus cant wreak havoc on min line i agree Reaver is better.
I think with the new path system in SC2 the Reaver is imba because scarabs dont "stick" to buildinds, so there is no unpredictability when it attacks. The AI in SC2 makes him more powerful.
This is gonna be a real problem when SC2 launches and people try to Mod SC1 with the engine. I say, SC1 is so perfect that even some bugs made game better (mutas wasnt supposed to stack, but they did and it was great; units should not pass between some buildings, but then comes Boxer and everything changed)
IMO its the biggest challenge to SC2 be greater than SC1, not the balance. Even wrong SC1 was right
2 more years until we get a perfect product I'd say!
agree with you... if sc2 not qualify for tl critics, i prefer that blizzards dont sell the game
I prefer SC2 being released before I die of old age -- They can perfect the game via patching and expansions.
SC2 isn't even at a stage yet where they can fix minor changes with patches.
So, in your opinion, what needs to be changed that can't be fixed via patches? And which of these things are actually going to be changed without a beta?
On October 12 2008 21:16 PobTheCad wrote: This gas randomly stops working thing is a bug right? i mean seriously?
Xeris is wrong, it's not a random thing.
Every 300 gas the thing stops working and recharges. Once it goes back online then you have another 300 etc
yes and for some stupid reason the recharge timing wasn't exactly the same time that it takes to mine 300 gas with 3 workers. (so you couldn't switch back and forth between the 2 geysers with the same 3 workers.)
This is, imo, one of the main reasons why zerg sucked so bad. You have less drones all the time and you have even less making double the extractors (especially when FE). Instead of like 8-9 drones total to morph/mine gas at main/nat you need to use 16. So zerg has to macro the miners to gas and vise versa all the time. With P or T you can get away with leaving them on the geyser doing nothing.
PS- Did anyone else have trouble grabbing the correct amount of workers to and from gas every minute?
Use a templar if you want to kill workers, I'd say....
Colossi is probably there for cliff abuse. (aka map specific strat)
I wonder if they would have done much better if dropped behind the mineral line, ready to bail against the tiniest threat. At the location they were dropped in, even a reaver would have been lolol hydra-sniped.
On October 13 2008 22:48 danieldrsa wrote: But what you think of Colossus? Dont you agree it sucks at worker killing?
It still deals 16 line damage so three shots and you just killed a lot of workers. The animation is not a representation of the attack, it deals its damage in all of the area instantly when the beam hits the right side, the rest of the animation is just there for show.
16 line damage? LoL 3 shots to kill workers? double LoL
If its true, Colossi are the most useless piece of protoss army (cost/benefits)
When it did 25 damage it were seriously op though.
Didn't the colossus do 100 something damage on the WWI build?
MBS is not an issue for the game. The mechanic feels fine and it feels just right. Protoss have warp in (which tones down MBS significantly) and Zerg have the larvae management and creep strategy (an idea blizzard is amplifying). Terran however are piss easy because of MBS - but they are looking at solutions to that.
The real killer here is automine, it basically makes it so that you never have to return to base at all. Removing automine would make this game x100000 better.
On October 14 2008 18:19 Plexa wrote: MBS is not an issue for the game. The mechanic feels fine and it feels just right. Protoss have warp in (which tones down MBS significantly) and Zerg have the larvae management and creep strategy (an idea blizzard is amplifying). Terran however are piss easy because of MBS - but they are looking at solutions to that.
The real killer here is automine, it basically makes it so that you never have to return to base at all. Removing automine would make this game x100000 better.
heh okay its back.. i had put it somewhere else but i guess we cant have enough of Plexa =]
I've got an idea, what if automine works if there are only not mined mineral patches? Fe. there are 9 patches, and u buil a cc next to it, you build scv (automine them to mineralas), but when u reach the amount of scv equal to the number of patches they don't automine?
On October 14 2008 18:19 Plexa wrote: MBS is not an issue for the game. The mechanic feels fine and it feels just right. Protoss have warp in (which tones down MBS significantly) and Zerg have the larvae management and creep strategy (an idea blizzard is amplifying). Terran however are piss easy because of MBS - but they are looking at solutions to that.
I suppose blizz's strategy to add more macro to terran was that reactor/addons thingy. How did it feel to use those? Maybe there is some high macro potentional managing addons? Stuff like, put reactors on rax for quick marines, then lift off, switch rax for facs for fast helions, place raxes on addons for building marauders, then switch back to counter something... etc etc. Do you guys feel like this system could have the potential to offer interesting macro for terrans?
The real killer here is automine, it basically makes it so that you never have to return to base at all. Removing automine would make this game x100000 better.
I recently noticed that nowadays on bw if you right click on minerals with a group of workers + others it will actually order to mine instead of move! I proly sound stupid as hell, but I took some breaks from starcraft time to time and I suppose they patched that during these so I completely missed this change and I have been ctrl+clicking drones out of the group of rallied units on every iccup game till a couple of weeks ago. This frees me up so many actions, on my point of view it feels like I have auto-mine now, it's s easy So my question is, when they patched this to make mining easier (for zerg it is MUCH easier) was there so many people complaining that the game was too easy like people are complaining about auto-mine? ^^
Another reason fast expands seemed to be a lot less viable was because the naturals were usually set off to the side of the paths to the mains. The only way you could defend your choke would be to spend a lot on static defense to cover both the expo and runbys. Also most naturals had 2 paths in so there usually wasn't just one choke you could defend.
I also felt like I had to cut probes to add tech and especially to expand unlike in sc where your tech and expands just sort of flow out of you having a surplus cash flow. With static defense so weak it definitely seemed like you had to really build up before you could risk expanding.
I'm really on the fence about the whole double geyser/extraction cooldown thing. The cooldown period is about 30 seconds. I can see where they were intending for players to be able to stock up on gas in quick bursts, and making that a viable alternative to the more predictable stream of income from one geyser at a time. I just think it comes off as an unnecessary form of increased base management. I didn't really like it because it threw off my timing and a lot of times it took me a while to realize (even with the UI's geyser alert message) that my workers were just sitting idle at a geyser. My personal strategy was just to swap from one geyser to the other for a smoother rate of income and so I could adapt more quickly to given situations, and because it felt closer to BW.
Minerals only harvest at 5 per cluster instead of 8, that was pretty different and really threw me off. Timing for opening builds seemed to be about the same speed as BW because of this.
Also to the guy complaining about "pre-alpha" or whatever, "pre-alpha" is a development stage where not all features have been implemented yet. I don't know what your explosion was all about.
Oh and I have to mention the amazing new observer mode features. There are different toggleable overlays in the corner for Army, Resources, among other things. This shows you at a glance each player's resource stockpile as well as their rate of income and how much they have spent and are spending over time on armies, research, structures, etc. Observers can see each player's mouse clicks and what they have selected, as well. Very very cool, like they took all of Lasgo's and superpenguin's BW tools and integrated them directly. You can bet all of these features will be in replays as well. Totally awesome and catered directly to broadcasting e-sports.
its a little bit off topic, but why only the protoss workers have changed? I really loved the wings of probes now they look soo observish
BTW, Colossi are useless imo, by now In SC1 you always could go Reaver or Templar, both excelling in worker killing, damage dealers Say, robo bay, or cidatel. By now, only templars are viable in mineral line raids. Colossus are doing a great headache to blizz, just like Queen/Thors.
Edit I know they are experimenting, but the abilities are changing so quickly, also the units, that i dont know what expect next. I trust blizz, but its really confusing by now.
EPT
So my question is, when they patched this to make mining easier (for zerg it is MUCH easier) was there so many people complaining that the game was too easy like people are complaining about auto-mine? ^^
