EPT"Starcraft II Expansion To Feature Fourth Race?" - Page 4
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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KaasZerg
Netherlands927 Posts
Why cap the number of unittypes in a race? A race becoming too well rounded without a strategical weakness? Or is Blizzard afraid the player will get confused with too many units and techroutes to chose from? I don't get it. A fourth race sounds cool but the risk of imbalance or too simular races is too big. We could end up with enough viable ideas for 3 1/2 races. Having a fourth races but not enough uniqueness. | ||
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Mikilatov
United States3897 Posts
On August 30 2008 10:23 moebius_string wrote: If they keep the 4th race like the Naga thats OK, but including a playable multiplayer 4th race for the expansion could be a disaster for balance and is best left alone. Perfect. I suppose they could make it work regardless as long as they tie it into whatever is to come within Starcraft II, though. I suppose I wouldn't mind in the end. | ||
cgrinker
United States3824 Posts
BLIZZARD LIES! | ||
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CommanderFluffy
Taiwan1059 Posts
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BaltA
Norway849 Posts
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Asgard
United Kingdom27 Posts
I find the Warcraft 3 arguments tiresome and fallacial. WC3 doesn't have perfect balance, but nor does SC. Yes overall SC's balance is better, but WC3's balance is still very good, and where it falls short of SC's balance that's largely down to all the other complexities WC3 has over SC: heroes, items, shops, mercenaries, creeps, more units per race, many more special abilities and spells per unit etc, which all make the balance picture much more muddy. The fact there's a 4th race, whilst not insignificant, somewhat pales in comparison to those other elements combined | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3977 Posts
i'm having my doubts about a 4th multiplayer race. Probably not a good idea... | ||
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CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
On September 04 2008 04:38 Asgard wrote: I think Blizzard are far too conservative to do this. A shame, because a big part of me wishes Blizzard would take a few risks. What's more they wouldn't do it half-arsed, they would be careful and test it a lot, they would do a good job of it. I find the Warcraft 3 arguments tiresome and fallacial. WC3 doesn't have perfect balance, but nor does SC. Yes overall SC's balance is better, but WC3's balance is still very good, and where it falls short of SC's balance that's largely down to all the other complexities WC3 has over SC: heroes, items, shops, mercenaries, creeps, more units per race, many more special abilities and spells per unit etc, which all make the balance picture much more muddy. The fact there's a 4th race, whilst not insignificant, somewhat pales in comparison to those other elements combined Do you think there's much of a difference between balancing the units of different races, versus balancing how those units can use things like items and mercenaries? It boils down to the same concept - ensuring that one race's unit, or combinations of units don't have an advantage over the units of another race. The items and mercs are the same for each race. Certainly heroes are a different matter, but they're also analogous to balancing unit combat. The 4th race adds quite a bit of complexity. You think it's fallacious to use WC3 as an example of balance issues because you deem the 4th race issue not as important? | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
For a start you have just as many match-ups to balance as the original game. + Show Spoiler + If you add a fourth race you have 3 more match-ups to balance. ?vT ?vP ?vZ There are 3 match-ups in the current game already PvZ, TvZ and PvT. Consider the fact that when adding in the new race you can't change the existing first 3 races because that alters their balance. Now consider Starcraft is relatively balanced in all phases of the game. Also that all races can execute rushes fairly well or go for macro builds. So when they have decided on a new mechanic they have to make sure it is well balanced against all races, is not overly strong in a certain game phase and still leaves the player many options of build order. This is going to limit their creativity so much that I suggest it will to be almost impossible for them to balance a 4th race AND make it dynamic and interesting at the same time. | ||
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dmetheny
United States146 Posts
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
If players succeed in progaming with that new race. Is it overpowered because it's easier to figure how to play with it than how to play against it? Or is it fair because it just haven't been long enough to stabilize? There is no way to know. If players keep failing with it in progaming. Is it underpowered because it's easier to find a counter for it than to find out how to play with it? Or is it fair because it just haven't been long enough to stabilize? Again there is no way to know. How do we define what is "long enough"? How do we balance how hard it's to play with vs how hard is it to play against? So I think either make all 4 races at the same time or don't add a new race at all. Adding races after the others have been around for a while will bring skill level imbalances even IF the races are perfectly balance for equal skill. | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5094 Posts
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spydernoob
Canada1066 Posts
they got the humans they got the futuristic aliens they got the dirty slimy bug like aliens dosnt really leave much for originality | ||
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EGMachine
United States1643 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
 I don't think this will happen though, and I don't think a fourth race will be added. Btw what's a troll? If this guy is making us waste time on something that he knows won't happen would that qualify? Not that I'm saying he is because he has a quote, but is the person who wrote the quote a troll? edit: troll:One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument urban dictionary. Maybe this could work. | ||
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Kleander
United States334 Posts
On September 04 2008 00:46 milly9 wrote: I don't think 4 races works, regardless of who is making the game. It just forces the game to use tons of overlapping units. Honestly whats different about footmen and grunts besides some random stats like hp and dmg? they're the exact same unit whats the difference between a zergling and a zealot, besides some random stats like hp and damage? or the hydra and marine? or the wraith and scout? each unit has 1 upgrade different than the other, there is already overlapping in sc, with the addition of a fourth race it could continue, but then again, it might not, there is no reason why blizzard cant add a fourth race, and have it balanced, its all about understanding what each race can do, and make a new unit that can do one, or two of these things, but mix them up. There are 3 canidates for new races atm, the zerg/protoss hybrid (which i think would suck ass) the Xel'naga (no reason there couldnt be a small pact still alive) and whatever race that samir duran is working for. and warcraft three isnt imbalanced because there are 4 races, its imbalanced because blizzard hasnt found the medium yet, in my opinion their heros are the real reason for imbalance, take for example the blademaster, he can almost single handedly destroy any other hero. more people play dota anyway, so wc3 melee is almost a moot point. I'm up for a fourth race, i think blizzard can do it, it will not be easy and if it comes out in the expantion then fucking great, people can play regular sc2 instead of sc2x. just like people play counterstrike 1.6 over counterstrike source. if they dont, then damn they just saved themselves a lot of work, but at expens of what?gl blizzard | ||
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ZaplinG
United States3818 Posts
On September 04 2008 10:05 spydernoob wrote: really what race/niche could they fill they got the humans they got the futuristic aliens they got the dirty slimy bug like aliens dosnt really leave much for originality A robot society created from rouge AI that has since forth gone unnoticed until now. Either that or... An entire race of critters that have grown tired of being clicked on all the time and are coming out of the woodworks to exact revenge. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
4th race for e-sport oriented multiplayer mode: Stupid Stupid of Blizzard employees to talk about a 4th race when the actual game is nowhere near balanced for multiplayer, let alone finished. | ||
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