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On September 04 2008 14:50 bubblegumbo wrote:
4th race for single player campaigns : Good idea
4th race for e-sport oriented multiplayer mode: Stupid
I agreed with this, almost all the people here agree with this, but if this will be their marketing strategy to sell the game like pancakes then so be it..
But here is what I think they "might" do.
So they add the forth race only on the campaigns, then they will ask for fan's feedback if we want that forth race to be added on the multiplayer or not. If we want, then they will create a new expansion so that the 4th race will be there... if not, maybe will all stick to the last expansion they create.
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I don't think anyone should make a silly claim like 3 races being the magic number of balance since our only best example is StarCraft made by Blizzard themselves. Although many RTSs implemented the 3 races formula but it still does not mean that it is the best formula and besides, most if not all are still not balanced. So what's the difference in the gamble on having a fourth race?
Blizzard are the ones who balanced StarCraft with 3 races. If they want to balance it for 4, then let them. It's harder, so what? They're Blizzard, they have the money. They have the time. They have the skills. They have the experience. It seems that all the worry is about Blizzard making another WarCraft 3. That's just being pessimistic since they have shown us their intent on not making a WC3 in space with their builds. Experience does not mean repeating the same mistakes over and over you know.
But overall, still, we should not expect a multiplayable 4th race at least until the game hits the stores. It still feels too damn early for a discussion.
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i think we should all hope, pray and spam that its gonna be a campaign only thing like the naga and blood elf races in wc3. with 4 races in multiplayer SC, random would be imba on bnet since if your opponent chooses his race there'll probably only one, maybe two possible builds to counter all possible cheese. also what makes sc so great is its complexity is intrinsic in strategy and tactics rather than a mass of different units to choose from. SC is great, but you cant just keep adding for the sake of having something new without eventually removing some things. SC fans want something new but also want the same "feel" and satisfying both of those i believe has been Blizzards greatest task with regards to SC2
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is there something to be said that the triangle is the sturdiest geometrical shape?
anyway, make it a four sided game, go go squarecraft 2!!!
fourth race = xel-naga
their theme, a race devoted to keeping the peace through scientific, psionic mastery. this curious race devoted their entire existance constantly asking why? their curiousity led them down the road of studying the universe and everything that goes on in it, during this process they try recreating life, and are succsessful, creating the protoss race, giving them a planet to inhabit, and they study them, until they are discovered by their ingenious prodigy. they abandon them in fear that they would distructively impact the protoss culture, so they start over again with the zerg, a race that are easier to control, one of pure organic manipulation. until their creation discovers them, and developes an aggressive impulse and turns on their creator. most of the xel-naga are annhilated, but a small pact escapes. their studies continue, and they feel that the perfect samples would be a mix between the zerg and the protoss, so they send a knewly discovered human to be infested by the zerg to gain a grasp of the current leader of the universe, kerrigan, then uses him to manipulate the theatre to set the stage for the xel-naga to come in with their perfected race of zerg/protoss hybrid to claim their mistakes and revert the universe back to peace by destroying all aggressive factions.
thats my fuzzy understanding of how the xel-naga could come back into play.
how they would be balance, thats for blizzard to work on, they get paid to do it
quote to discribe each race
Zerg - Quantity over Quality
Terran - KILL IT WITH FIRE
Protoss - Quality over Quantity
Xel-Naga - Peace Through Superior Firepower
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For the expansion they should remove a race.
Think about THAT for a minute.
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On September 04 2008 17:35 Kleander wrote:
is there something to be said that the triangle is the sturdiest geometrical shape?
anyway, make it a four sided game, go go squarecraft 2!!!
fourth race = xel-naga
their theme, a race devoted to keeping the peace through scientific, psionic mastery. this curious race devoted their entire existance constantly asking why? their curiousity led them down the road of studying the universe and everything that goes on in it, during this process they try recreating life, and are succsessful, creating the protoss race, giving them a planet to inhabit, and they study them, until they are discovered by their ingenious prodigy. they abandon them in fear that they would distructively impact the protoss culture, so they start over again with the zerg, a race that are easier to control, one of pure organic manipulation. until their creation discovers them, and developes an aggressive impulse and turns on their creator. most of the xel-naga are annhilated, but a small pact escapes. their studies continue, and they feel that the perfect samples would be a mix between the zerg and the protoss, so they send a knewly discovered human to be infested by the zerg to gain a grasp of the current leader of the universe, kerrigan, then uses him to manipulate the theatre to set the stage for the xel-naga to come in with their perfected race of zerg/protoss hybrid to claim their mistakes and revert the universe back to peace by destroying all aggressive factions.
thats my fuzzy understanding of how the xel-naga could come back into play.
how they would be balance, thats for blizzard to work on, they get paid to do it
This is one cool post!
Hhhmm.. Can you think of any special skill that will make them unique with the other races?
Example:
Xel-Naga found a Marine corpse with an Ultralisk..
"Oh Look there's a human corpse lying with this UltraLisk.."
Let us use our special ability to revive and train this corpse... into
Ultraman!
![[image loading]](http://psharbaugh.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/ultraman5.jpg)
Just Kidding ^_^ making things fun.. sorry for being such a retard.. 
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If they have the time and effort to make it balanced, then they should make a fourth race. If worst comes to worst, e-sports can just ignore the new race if glaring imbalances are obvious.
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On September 05 2008 02:36 randomKo_Orean wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2008 12:26 freshtowers wrote:
Seriously if you want balance at all costs then they should make only one race playable. balancing 4 races isn't hard at all and it would make starcraft not so boring. anyone who opposes more variety probably played only starcraft and has no idea how a game with 4+ races works
You are a dumbass. I've played Wc3, and trust me, balancing is hard as shit. everyone will yell out imba even if it was remotely close to being balanced
Heroes makes games much harder to balance and forces the races to play in the same way, one extra race just is twice of the same. If you have 3 perfectly balanced races and make a new one, you could just tweak every abuse the new one can do towards the old 3 so that it gets balanced vs all of them, it is not that much more work than getting 3 balanced races in the first place.
The hardest part is keeping all matchups interesting, trying to avoid things like zvz.
PS the reason heroes forces all the races to play in the same way is because heroes with their experience systems always favors unit preservation and killing as many with as few losses as possible. It just would not work to have matchups like zvt or zvp then.
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On August 30 2008 15:45 freshtowers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2008 15:41 choboPEon wrote:On August 30 2008 11:10 ohhsuup wrote:
if a 4th race is introduced, it will no doubt destroy starcraft as we know it. IT'S NOT SC AS YOU KNOW IT: IT'S A 60 DOLLAR NEW GAME. fuck. i dont know if this will kill it or not but the idea that we have to make sc2-sc2x exactly like sc-bw is annoying the hell out of me. i dont know if i want a 4th race or what for the expansion but take some risks, wow me. i want more than two new units is all i'm sayin even if it, gasps, means change. i want a new game, at least a little, when i buy a new game. Exactly. There are already articles about starcraft declining in korea so why keep going down the same road?
WHAT? SC has been out for 10 years. I'm sure everyone would love for SC2 to go down a path where it enjoys prosperity for 10 years and then goes on a rumored "decline".
*If* SC2 were to add a 4th race, I'm sure it would be able to pull it off much better than War3 did simply because there are no heroes to balance. I'm sure Blizz can come up with enough ideas to create a unique 4th race.
Btw ZvZ rocks.
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On August 30 2008 09:59 grobo wrote:
I don't want another race, i think Blizzard was somewhat lucky that they managed to get SC as balanced as they did, and that just wont happen again if they decide to add another fourth race.
can you imagine, if they took this long to balance 3 races (as they have been lucky in sc), what the 4th race will cause? that means by the time the human race is about to become extinct, we'll still have no sc2 in the world.
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we already have a 4th race its called random
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I know that if we start spamming the thread with various over the top suggestions it will be closed eventually but.. what about Xel Naga .. ghosts? Purely psionic, coming from a hell/underworld dimension, slowly deteriorating over time.. (in contrast to zerg regeneration for instance..) - it's at least different (other ideas include Ninja-race and Chuck Norris-race ofc).
Anyway to contribute something - I think some people have too high expectations for SC2. Don't get me wrong, I will buy it as soon as it hits the shelves as most of you guys but seriously - it will not be balanced, at least not in the first year when the new strats will be composed and countered etc. There's only so much the internal testers can try. Yes, balancing 3 races is easier than balancing 4 (which according to some is twice as hard - 3 different non-mirror match-ups) but with the proper feedback from the community, it's not impossible, not with all the moneyz from WoW at Blizzard's disposal.
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How about 2v2 with 4 races, even harder to balance (2v2 is still part of SC and WC3 some online/offline tournaments).
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i hate when people say that sc being balanced is based on luck >_>
everytime you say that you discredit the hard work that blizzard put into making the game the way it is.
blizzard made the game balanced, wether it was luck that they thought of ways to balance it or not is up to interpritation, but sc is the way it is because blizzard put time and effort into making it a good game. thats why i think balancing a fourth race for them shouldnt be too diffiuclt, the only negative difference it will make is the release date, and as we all know blizz fans have to be very patient, we can wait if they can produce.
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On September 05 2008 08:32 antiq wrote:
I know that if we start spamming the thread with various over the top suggestions it will be closed eventually but.. what about Xel Naga .. ghosts? Purely psionic, coming from a hell/underworld dimension, slowly deteriorating over time.. (in contrast to zerg regeneration for instance..) - it's at least different (other ideas include Ninja-race and Chuck Norris-race ofc).
lol having a deteriorating army would sure put preassure on the player to be aggressive: imagine the situation playing a terran who just bunkers up and defends the entire game, he never has to worry, because A) terran are bad ass mother fuckers while camping a location. and B) he can sit it out and slowly push while your units get weaker, and weaker.
it would definetly put a time limit on parts of the game, maybe terran should deteriorate, like "rust" if a unit sits in 1 place too long, they start doing less damage/attack slower. make it impossible for those assholes to start up a campfire while all my shit is getting irradiated.
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i've mentioned this before but xel naga cannot be added as a race in sc2
zerg killed xel naga and assimilated their knowledge , that is how they found out about the protoss
xel naga = dead , 4th race = no thx
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On September 06 2008 21:02 PobTheCad wrote:
i've mentioned this before but xel naga cannot be added as a race in sc2
zerg killed xel naga and assimilated their knowledge , that is how they found out about the protoss
xel naga = dead , 4th race = no thx
A Mr Samir Duran wants to see all you children at Dark Origins.
Also, they do not have to go under the Xel'Naga name as they are likely to comprise of themselves and their 'pets'.
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I think it's a viable and interesting option. Could work great with the storyline too. I'm sure there are LOTS of ideas that Blizzard could work with if given a new template for race design.
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EPT
