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Will make sure I send one in this month tho.[D] Pathfinding in SC2 - Page 3
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Will make sure I send one in this month tho. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32100 Posts
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MultiMarine
Sweden39 Posts
On April 05 2008 02:22 teamsolid wrote: But the post quality was horrendous, both spelling/grammar and logic wise (just like the other thread he created, which no one could even understand after reading the whole post). Magic box has been brought up before many times and I think it was generally agreed that we want it in SC2, and could be asked in the "submit your questions" thread to Blizzard. Someday you will grow up and understand not everyone on this planet is a native english speaker. What are you trying to say? That i should not be allowed to have an opinion if i can't write perfect English? There are way to many people like you who start bitching about grammar and spelling instead of actually trying to understand the post! You think writing skills is more important then actually knowing something about the subject you are discussing? Cause you might be a world class writter but you knowledge about the subject is a joke. I have played Starcraft for 10 years. I have been competing in Korea 2 times. I work as a programmer. I'm pretty sure i know more about this then you ever will. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 05 2008 05:09 BluzMan wrote: FA, I, for once, consider magic boxes a much more pressing concern that MBS and automine combined. At first I thought it was just an alpha feature that would be reworked in the final builds, but in the recent videos it still stays - units almost stack, it's ridiculous. You can fit like 30 stalkers in a relatively small blob because all units in SC2 so far ignore formation (I am a big hater of predefined Warcraft III - style formations though) and they have a way too small clipping size It's gamebreaking. Feel free to write a good question about it and I'll pick it 100%. I can even try to get it sent in for this months edition (sent it yesterday). Magic boxes is something I've never really known much about (like the inner workings of it) despite playing for quite a long time. As for the way units clump in SC2, I sort of assumed it was because it was in 3D. Would be nice if they didn't have to, though! | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32100 Posts
On April 05 2008 05:09 BluzMan wrote: FA, I, for once, consider magic boxes a much more pressing concern that MBS and automine combined. At first I thought it was just an alpha feature that would be reworked in the final builds, but in the recent videos it still stays - units almost stack, it's ridiculous. You can fit like 30 stalkers in a relatively small blob because all units in SC2 so far ignore formation (I am a big hater of predefined Warcraft III - style formations though) and they have a way too small clipping size It's gamebreaking. You got that video? I wana see what you're talking about | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On April 05 2008 05:34 MultiMarine wrote: I mentioned spelling/grammar ONCE, and you make it a focal point. It just makes it hard to read, but the rest of your post is still illogical and sounds like the opinion of a BGH player. I already pointed out the problem with every one of your arguments as have others. You should thank Zanno for somewhat saving this thread.Someday you will grow up and understand not everyone on this planet is a native english speaker. What are you trying to say? That i should not be allowed to have an opinion if i can't write perfect English? There are way to many people like you who start bitching about grammar and spelling instead of actually trying to understand the post! You think writing skills is more important then actually knowing something about the subject you are discussing? Cause you might be a world class writter but you knowledge about the subject is a joke. I have played Starcraft for 10 years. I have been competing in Korea 2 times. I work as a programmer. I'm pretty sure i know more about this then you ever will. | ||
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MultiMarine
Sweden39 Posts
On April 05 2008 05:58 FrozenArbiter wrote: Feel free to write a good question about it and I'll pick it 100%. I can even try to get it sent in for this months edition (sent it yesterday). Magic boxes is something I've never really known much about (like the inner workings of it) despite playing for quite a long time. As for the way units clump in SC2, I sort of assumed it was because it was in 3D. Would be nice if they didn't have to, though! The reason units clump togheter in sc2 has nothing to do with magic boxes. The reasons are: - 3D allows for units to move as close to each other as they possibly can. That's something you can't do with 2D and sprites. - Units interact perfectly and never starts looking for other ways to get to the clicked location with this perfect pathfinding. Units would clump just as much in Sc1 if it was 3D. With or without magic boxes. The only solution is to create an imaginary boundary around the units so they can't be so damn close to each other. This would help the micro alot. | ||
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MultiMarine
Sweden39 Posts
On April 05 2008 06:24 teamsolid wrote: I mentioned spelling/grammar ONCE, and you make it a focal point. It just makes it hard to read, but the rest of your post is still illogical and sounds like the opinion of a BGH player. I already pointed out the problem with every one of your arguments as have others. You should thank Zanno for somewhat saving this thread. Sorry, but I call BS on your claims, especially when you have 11 posts and three of those are in the SC2 thread opening up new threads. FYI, I've played SC for 10 years too (as have plenty of others), but I don't need to point this out because I can show my knowledge. You know.... i'm 28 years old. I don't make stuff up on message boards to sound cool. I don't care if you belive me or not, you have already proven to me you don't know this subject. No one has saved this post since no one even understands the problem. The problem is not magic boxes. Look at my post above! | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On April 05 2008 06:40 MultiMarine wrote: The reason units clump togheter in sc2 has nothing to do with magic boxes. The reasons are: - 3D allows for units to stand as close to each other as they possibly can. That's something you can't do with 2D and sprites. - Units interact perfectly and never starts looking for other ways to get to the clicked location with this perfect pathfinding. Units would clump just as much in Sc1 if it was 3D. With or without magic boxes. The only solution is to create an imaginary boundary around the units so they can't be so damn close to each other. This would help the micro alot.  There's obviously imaginary boundaries around every unit already, or else the units would stack onto each other 2D or 3D. I don't think you understand what magic boxes are. I would advise you to reread Zanno's post. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On April 05 2008 06:46 MultiMarine wrote: You know.... i'm 28 years old. I don't make stuff up on message boards to sound cool. I don't care if you belive me or not, you have already proven to me you don't know this subject. Really? I don't know this subject? I think you missed my two posts earlier, which you've failed to respond to. What'd your ID? What competitions in Korea? Anyone else who can verify your ID (since you've been "progamer for 10 years")? Why do you only have 11 posts on TL? You're not convincing me, by saying "oh, I'm 28, I'm progamer, I don't need to prove myself". | ||
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MultiMarine
Sweden39 Posts
On April 05 2008 06:49 teamsolid wrote: There's obviously imaginary boundaries around every unit already, or else the units would stack onto each other 2D or 3D. I don't think you understand what magic boxes are. I would advise you to reread Zanno's post. Ground units are not supposed to be able to walk thru another unit so the boundaries are not imaginary. Once again you show you know absolutly nothing about programming and the difference between 3D and 2D. And as i said before. Units clumping togheter has nothing todo with magic boxes. You don't need a made up concept like magix boxes when you program in 3D. | ||
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MultiMarine
Sweden39 Posts
On April 05 2008 06:54 teamsolid wrote: Really? I don't know this subject? I think you missed my two posts earlier, which you've failed to respond to. What'd your ID? What competitions in Korea? Anyone else who can verify your ID (since you've been "progamer for 10 years")? Why do you only have 11 posts on TL? You're not convincing me, by saying "oh, I'm 28, I'm progamer, I don't need to prove myself". No you don't know this subject. This is about programming and not about magic boxes. If Blizzard never read any posts here they would have no idea what magic boxeswere . They don't care about magic boxes and there is no way they will add this made up concept when they make this game in 3D. I played in the first WCGC (as the first WCG was called if you are old enough to remember) for example. When did i say i have been a progamer for 10 years? Or even a progamer for that matter? | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
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MultiMarine
Sweden39 Posts
On April 05 2008 07:29 Funchucks wrote: Um... magic boxes are obviously programmed into Starcraft intentionally. They may use another name for it internally, but there's no way the units would behave that way accidentally. I just want to make this really clear! - Magic boxes is a made up word and concept from a TL poster. - Blizzard never knew they created "magic boxes" while coding. - "Magic boxes" is a "bug" in a 2D world with imperfect pathfinding. - Units clump because 3D models can move and interact perfectly in a 3D world, while in 2D you have to move squares around no matter what the unit looks like. 2D creates alot of bugs in the pathfinding and the collision detection since you are not working with 3D models but with sprites. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Btw, what makes you so sure blizzard doesn't know about it? | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On April 05 2008 07:45 MultiMarine wrote: I just want to make this really clear! - Magic boxes is a made up word and concept from a TL poster. - Blizzard never knew they created "magic boxes" while coding. - "Magic boxes" is a "bug" in a 2D world with imperfect pathfinding. - Units clump because 3D models can move and interact perfectly in a 3D world, while in 2D you have to move squares around no matter what the unit looks like. 2D creates alot of bugs in the pathfinding and the collision detection since you are not working with 3D models but with sprites. How do you explain "korean casting" then? It's something unbelievably hard to do unintentionally. Btw, I submitted a question to the April thread, dunno if it's formulated well enough. | ||
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MultiMarine
Sweden39 Posts
On April 05 2008 07:55 FrozenArbiter wrote: MultiMarine, are you Kenka? Terran nickname + played in Korea + WCGC + the age seems right. The only other swede I know competed in Korea is eVERLAST but I'm not sure he played in WCGC. Btw, what makes you so sure blizzard doesn't know about it? No i'm not Kenka. But i know who he is and he knows me. He did not play in WCGC thou. Me and Daaman from Sweden did. I used the nick name Multifaith then. The first time i was in Korea i was there with 4 Swedes. One of them was eVERLAST. The tourny we played was the tourny that made Grrrr a star when he came second and after that moved to Korea. | ||
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MultiMarine
Sweden39 Posts
On April 05 2008 07:57 BluzMan wrote: How do you explain "korean casting" then? It's something unbelievably hard to do unintentionally. Btw, I submitted a question to the April thread, dunno if it's formulated well enough. I'm guessing it took atleast 5 years before someone discovered korean casting or magic boxes for that matter. If it wasn't unintentional someone would have discovered it alot sooner and it would have been in the starcraft rulebook(or whatever it's called) that comes with the game. If someone at Blizzard actually knew they had created magic boxes the rumour would have spread and we wouldn't have waited 5 or more years to hear about it. | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
On April 05 2008 07:45 MultiMarine wrote: I just want to make this really clear! - Magic boxes is a made up word and concept from a TL poster. - Blizzard never knew they created "magic boxes" while coding. - "Magic boxes" is a "bug" in a 2D world with imperfect pathfinding. Jesus... play the game a little. It works for flying units as well, and they don't even bother with pathfinding. Get some mutalisks together, select them all at once, send them to a place within the bounding box of their group - they bunch up. Get some mutalisks together, select them all at once, send them to a place outside of their group - they keep the same relative distance. The bounding box of their group is the "magic box". Anyone who knows anything about game programming would find it absolutely obvious that there is a bit of code in the Starcraft source that looks something like this: if (destination_in_box(current_destination, bounding_box_of_selection(current_selection))){ send_all_to_destination(current_selection,current_destination); }else{ current_center=box_center(bounding_box(current_selection)); for(each unit in current_selection){ unit_displacement=unit_displacement_from_center(unit, current_center); unit_destination=destination_displaced_from_center(unit_displacement, current_destination); send_to_destination(unit, unit_destination); } } Now, various exploits of this code may be considered bugs, but if you think the magic boxes themselves just happened accidentally, you're an idiot. | ||
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