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Canada2938 Posts
The A.I. nowadays is absolutely nuts and I would rather see them give more control to the players again. :/ I really dislike the grouping formations and it makes AoE spells far too effective and look what happens!?!?!?! They have to nerf spells like Psi Storm, which is flat out lame. More control, more control, MORE CONTROL!! P.S. Don't worry about the other nutters guys because that is all they are nutters. I'm sure Blizzard plans on doing something about this. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
1. Players should get some advantage from microing their units outside of special abilities 2. Flanks should be moderately difficult to pull off | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
- improved pathfinding - unlimited unit selection - multiple building selection - continuous beam weapons - new mobility options - 3d graphics - removing old units - adding new units - "2" decals not just attached to old Starcraft boxes | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
On April 04 2008 09:33 Funchucks wrote: Things which are wrong with Starcraft 2: - improved pathfinding - unlimited unit selection - multiple building selection - continuous beam weapons - new mobility options - 3d graphics - removing old units - adding new units - "2" decals not just attached to old Starcraft boxes Oh i see what u did there~! Thing is, even if it does seem like people just want it to play like Brood War, maybe that really is the best thing if Blizzard wants to achieve their goal of StarCraft II being competitive. I'm not against change, I really love most of the new units (glad soul hunter is gone though) but things like the way units move in relation to each other isn't an argument you should accuse of being a result of someone resisting change. It's a legitimate concern and the kind of response you made borders the realm of irrelevance. | ||
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PobTheCad
Australia893 Posts
On April 04 2008 09:33 Funchucks wrote: Things which are wrong with Starcraft 2: - improved pathfinding - unlimited unit selection - multiple building selection - continuous beam weapons - new mobility options - 3d graphics - removing old units - adding new units - "2" decals not just attached to old Starcraft boxes WHAT THE HELL u got to accept some changes dude 10 years since starcraft came out , things have changed to assume a 2d rts would be released in 2008 is ludicrous | ||
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
Problems with units getting stuck on each other in SC and retardedly marching off to their death were mostly addressed, there has to be some happy middle point between the two games. | ||
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nimysa
United States383 Posts
On April 04 2008 12:31 PobTheCad wrote: WHAT THE HELL u got to accept some changes dude 10 years since starcraft came out , things have changed to assume a 2d rts would be released in 2008 is ludicrous You obviously don't know much about starcraft or don't know anything at all, and the only complex knowledge you ever gained from an RTS is how to cheese with nightelf or learning mass talons while you started playing war3 in the morning. I suggest you go educate yourself because no one will listen to your crap since you don't offer any significant points nor do you have any value concerning your opinions. Most of the guys that want the old features to stay know what they are talking about, they're veterens and they're C+,B, or A ranked starcraft players, something which you will never get from playing that stupid crap shit of a game you call war3. Being a good player in war3 means absolutely nothing at all, since that game died in korea and as a professional sport long time ago anyways, my best advice is to go back to your game and make it crap like your war3 boys did before wiih your whining of raider ensnare and other things; just don't make our game crap (starcraft a real complicated game mind you) since obviously it has meaning. | ||
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Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
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Woyn
United Kingdom1628 Posts
On April 04 2008 22:54 nimysa wrote: You obviously don't know much about starcraft or don't know anything at all, and the only complex knowledge you ever gained from an RTS is how to cheese with nightelf or learning mass talons while you started playing war3 in the morning. I suggest you go educate yourself because no one will listen to your crap since you don't offer any significant points nor do you have any value concerning your opinions. Most of the guys that want the old features to stay know what they are talking about, they're veterens and they're C+,B, or A ranked starcraft players, something which you will never get from playing that stupid crap shit of a game you call war3. Being a good player in war3 means absolutely nothing at all, since that game died in korea and as a professional sport long time ago anyways, my best advice is to go back to your game and make it crap like your war3 boys did before wiih your whining of raider ensnare and other things; just don't make our game crap (starcraft a real complicated game mind you) since obviously it has meaning. You obviously know very little about Warcraft 3.. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
I would agree with Zanno, but I'm not even sure if the units in SC2 does behave like that. Seems from some vids that it does but from others that it doesn't. Maybe changed from one build to another. Would rather wait for beta for further complaints. But I do agree with his point. I'd rather set my own formations than to have the game auto decide it for itself. | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On April 04 2008 23:44 VIB wrote: Wait a bit. Multimarine and Zanno are talking about two different but similar things. Multimarine just wants old bugs back because he thinks bugs and poor game design are cool. Zanno tho does have a point and wants the FORMATION of units in SC2 to change from WC3 auto formation to bw manual formation which allows for more control, but he does wants bugs fixed (mid term between bw and wc3). I would agree with Zanno, but I'm not even sure if the units in SC2 does behave like that. Seems from some vids that it does but from others that it doesn't. Maybe changed from one build to another. Would rather wait for beta for further complaints. But I do agree with his point. I'd rather set my own formations than to have the game auto decide it for itself. It's true, all the problems we all complain about don't really work until we have a beta to play. I wish they would at least start a closed beta, and let like all the TL admins in on it so they could tell us what's up. As it is we don't get enough updates on the details that are impossible to get from VODs without some kind of beta. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On April 04 2008 01:30 MultiMarine wrote: How the hell does better path finding ruin marine or hydra dancing? Secondly, Zealots DO NOT walk in single file in SC, they retain the magic box formation that they were originally sitting in, unless you A-attacked from one side of the map to the other.-Since five Zealots walk like one and do not spread out, dancing with marines or hydras will be ruined. On April 04 2008 01:30 MultiMarine wrote: No, worker stacking is still in the game. Also, they're even easier to surround units with than in SC, notice how Savior managed to surround a zealot with just 4-5 drones easily.- Using your scv's, probes or drones in fights will be ruined. On April 04 2008 01:30 MultiMarine wrote: Right... harassing will be ruined, even though workers already have 100% pathfinding in BOTH games, since they have 0 collision size when you direct them to another mineral patch.- Harrasing peon lines will be ruined since perfect pathfindig, unlimeted selection and more time will make running away with your peons really easy. On April 04 2008 01:30 MultiMarine wrote: Blocking your ramp will always provide a ridiculous advantage over the attacking player as it reduces the # of units pushing up to about 2 at a time. This has nothing to do with pathfinding, unless the attacking player has 0 micro and just lets his units attempt to a-attack up the ramp.- Blocking ramps with units. On April 04 2008 01:30 MultiMarine wrote: The buggy AI is the worst problem about the reaver. Yes, it can add "suspense" to a VOD because of the luck factor, but of course luck should have no place in an E-Sport like Starcraft anyways. - If the beloved Reaver would make a return it would be ruined. I see how it is now. Any OP that is critical of SC2 and says "SC is great, therefore we should make <insert aspect of SC2> exactly like it was in SC" will be tolerated on these forums, even if it's about a buggy PoS like poor pathfinding with terrible reasoning/logic to support it. This is one of the worst OPs I've ever seen on TL and is crap even by Battle.net forum standards, because it's somehow asking Blizzard to reintroduce "pathfinding bugs" into the AI (and not even competition-friendly bugs like muta-stacking, just plain shitty bad pathfinding). Anyone who "agrees with OP" clearly didn't read it or will blindly agree to anything that says "make SC2 like SC". | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On April 04 2008 01:46 Zanno wrote: Agreed. Retaining magic box is a good idea. Maybe they should have 3 different settings when it comes to formation. I feel the most optimal formation to balance between stupidity and over-intelligence is to have all units move in a parallel formation to one another. So, once you have your formation set up, it will be preserved as long as they're moving on open ground. If they have to go into a choke point, then they should go in a straight line and reconverge in their formation on the other side provided they have room to. That is essentially how units work in starcraft right now if you use the magical box principle. If you violate the magical box, the units will march in a straight line and cluster into a tight ball once they reach the destination - I suppose it would be logical if they still did this if you clicked on a point inside of your selection's formation, but not when travelling across map. I imagine they'd have still use magical boxes to set some threshold for the group (probably a screen's size) as well so that a unit crossmap doesn't get confused, but it'd be nice if having a few stray units outside of the magical box didn't cause the whole system to fall apart. Don't really know how you could program this, but there has to be some way. A) Just clump everything in a ball (current SC2) B) Retain original magic box formation of units when they reach destination C) Melee/ranged formation mode for newbies EDIT: But then again, isn't that reducing the skill required for unit control? Shouldn't a player be rewarded for controlling his units and manually splitting them up to dodge a storm? Just like how Protoss manually split up their dragoons to avoid tank splash. I'm not entirely sure if it should be implemented, because isn't that also automating an aspect of unit control and reduces skill in SC2? On April 04 2008 01:46 Zanno wrote: There's no auto-surround behaviour in SC2 (as far as I'm aware), unless you're talking about Zealot charge, which causes auto-surrounding simply due to the huge speed increase. They will never make units will auto-focus fire.What really worries me about SC2 pathing is that melee units seem to have some sort of auto-surround behavior that, while it looks cool, I think is going to ultimately going to be discarded. If ranged units also do the equivalent action of automatically focus fire then I'm going to flip my shit. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
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InRaged
1047 Posts
I'd prefer to ask them about this asap, instead of waiting for beta ;P | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On April 05 2008 02:13 FrozenArbiter wrote: Well, I think most people here were pretty critical of him.. I don't agree with him, but at least some good posts (Zanno for instance) came out of this.. But the post quality was horrendous, both spelling/grammar and logic wise (just like the other thread he created, which no one could even understand after reading the whole post). Magic box has been brought up before many times and I think it was generally agreed that we want it in SC2, and could be asked in the "submit your questions" thread to Blizzard. | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
Formation needs are frequently shifting - but the better the control the less the "skill". Imagine if your units would move like you´d want them to! Madness! | ||
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