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On July 19 2025 00:59 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 23:23 WombaT wrote:On July 18 2025 23:06 ejozl wrote:On July 18 2025 06:45 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On July 18 2025 00:17 Mizenhauer wrote:On July 16 2025 09:51 Waxangel wrote:
ByuN rode a favorable/abusive meta to his world championship you don't say? I mean, nobody wrote an article calling him a patch Terran. According to the goat of goat rankings byun in 2016 had one of the strongest years ever, due to winning the most money when other terrans absolutely did not. On one patch and he’s never won another Premier since. He won a major which I think arguably could have counted to be fair. There arguably isn’t another player with a more compelling case to be a ‘patch player’ than Byun. Still an incredible player, and still one of the great StarCraft 2 stories, absolutely a patch player. Unlike other patch players, it wasn’t a meta that covered a lack of skill, but accentuated an area he was atypically, incredibly good at. I mean Rogue is a far bigger patch zerg than ByuN is a patch terran imho, since Rogue basically only started winning when zerg became super strong (hydra patch in 2017, even Elazer got a semifinals at BlizzCon). ByuN was also good at TvT with tankivacs, he beat TY and other strong terrans at the time. Later on his wrist issues and terran being relatively bad prevented him from winning other tournaments, not that he was himself not good enough. Only Maru could win in forever most of the times for terran. Terrans and protoss couldn't really become patch T/P anymore because they were nerfed super quickly, while zerg kept on being strong so we even forgot about calling them patch Z since Z just stayed strong for 3 or 4 years straight, ever since 2019 (2017 and 2018 they were slightly stronger than other races, but it was manageable)
Rarely is a take so bad it matches your username. To call Rogue a patch Zerg is ridiculous and insulting to a player that has an argument for GOAT and is top 3 of all time.
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Northern Ireland25118 Posts
On July 19 2025 02:58 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 23:23 WombaT wrote:On July 18 2025 23:06 ejozl wrote:On July 18 2025 06:45 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On July 18 2025 00:17 Mizenhauer wrote:On July 16 2025 09:51 Waxangel wrote:
ByuN rode a favorable/abusive meta to his world championship you don't say? I mean, nobody wrote an article calling him a patch Terran. According to the goat of goat rankings byun in 2016 had one of the strongest years ever, due to winning the most money when other terrans absolutely did not. On one patch and he’s never won another Premier since. He won a major which I think arguably could have counted to be fair. There arguably isn’t another player with a more compelling case to be a ‘patch player’ than Byun. Still an incredible player, and still one of the great StarCraft 2 stories, absolutely a patch player. Unlike other patch players, it wasn’t a meta that covered a lack of skill, but accentuated an area he was atypically, incredibly good at. That very much describes Scarlett and her IEM PyeongChang win.
I don’t even consider a ‘patch player’ to be that derogatory. It’s pretty cutthroat at the top, if a patch suits your style, or you figure out how to abuse it quicker, that can make the difference and it’s part of the game. Even with a beneficial patch you’ve still got to be bloody good to win Premiers.
So no shade from me, I’d rate Byun number one personally because he rode a favourable meta for him to a WC and a GSL.
On July 19 2025 04:36 onPHYRE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 00:59 Poopi wrote:On July 18 2025 23:23 WombaT wrote:On July 18 2025 23:06 ejozl wrote:On July 18 2025 06:45 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On July 18 2025 00:17 Mizenhauer wrote:On July 16 2025 09:51 Waxangel wrote:
ByuN rode a favorable/abusive meta to his world championship you don't say? I mean, nobody wrote an article calling him a patch Terran. According to the goat of goat rankings byun in 2016 had one of the strongest years ever, due to winning the most money when other terrans absolutely did not. On one patch and he’s never won another Premier since. He won a major which I think arguably could have counted to be fair. There arguably isn’t another player with a more compelling case to be a ‘patch player’ than Byun. Still an incredible player, and still one of the great StarCraft 2 stories, absolutely a patch player. Unlike other patch players, it wasn’t a meta that covered a lack of skill, but accentuated an area he was atypically, incredibly good at. I mean Rogue is a far bigger patch zerg than ByuN is a patch terran imho, since Rogue basically only started winning when zerg became super strong (hydra patch in 2017, even Elazer got a semifinals at BlizzCon). ByuN was also good at TvT with tankivacs, he beat TY and other strong terrans at the time. Later on his wrist issues and terran being relatively bad prevented him from winning other tournaments, not that he was himself not good enough. Only Maru could win in forever most of the times for terran. Terrans and protoss couldn't really become patch T/P anymore because they were nerfed super quickly, while zerg kept on being strong so we even forgot about calling them patch Z since Z just stayed strong for 3 or 4 years straight, ever since 2019 (2017 and 2018 they were slightly stronger than other races, but it was manageable) Rarely is a take so bad it matches your username. To call Rogue a patch Zerg is ridiculous and insulting to a player that has an argument for GOAT and is top 3 of all time.
Top 5, maybe :p
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This would not be a thread about SC if it did not lapse into a debate about balance and the GoaT.
That said, I'm excited to see whether this EWC might eventuate a shift in the GoaT ranking. For example, the unlikely event of Rogue winning it all would greatly bolster his claim, although I still think it would not suffice to put him above #3. Another improbable but interesting scenario would be Serral bombing out spectacularly and Maru winning the title, which would go a long way of closing the already small gap between them.
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I haven’t been this excited for a tournament in a long time. This year, many players have a genuine chance to win, unlike last year’s EWC where Clem just felt unstoppable.
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United Arab Emirates1 Post
A Protoss player will finally win the world championship.
Then, Protoss will likely be nerfed into oblivion.
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Think it's time to finally get another Protoss world champ! I'm picking a Mary v Clem TvP finals where Clem defends his title. Also Mary finally ends his losing streak vs Serral this tourny
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On July 20 2025 04:05 sc2turtlepants wrote:
Think it's time to finally get another Protoss world champ! I'm picking a Mary v Clem TvP finals where Clem defends his title. Also Mary finally ends his losing streak vs Serral this tourny
Clem winning the title with his Protoss off-race would actually be hilarious. Finally, another WC title for Protoss, but one achieved by a Terran main. If I were a Protoss player, this would trigger me into oblivion, haha.
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I don't know if any Koreans (or folks who speak Korean) are watching Crank's stream these days. He often has insights into what kind of form Korean players are in, especially Maru and Byun re: their ongoing injuries. Byun's injuries are more openly talked about since they seem to have some psychological triggers, but Maru's are less talked about. My uninformed perspective is that his injuries have significantly influenced his play over the last few years. There was some time after he had surgery or injections that he seemed to be back to normal but recently it's clear that he's in pain when he plays--he's constantly grabbing his shoulder like he used to back when he was injured. I believe Crank may have said at some point recently that Maru got a delay or exemption from his military service due to his shoulder injury.
Maru's play the last couple years gives me later career Mvp vibes in that it feels like he somewhat reduces extremely fast and micro-intensive multiprong attacks in favor of more strategic eco-boost gambles and sharp timing attacks. He seems to also mostly have given up on his late game turtling strategies. Some of this is surely due to meta shifts (in particular the harsh ghost supply increase). But I wonder how much of it is an honest acknowledgment that his normal aperture of being able to play almost any style of play very effectively is somewhat reduced due to his injuries.
That was a long post to basically say that I wouldn't be surprised to see Maru underperform expectations. I'm really excited to see what Classic, Rogue, and Reynor can do. Hero, Clem, and Serral I expect to be on point.
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On July 20 2025 06:28 rwala wrote:
I don't know if any Koreans (or folks who speak Korean) are watching Crank's stream these days. He often has insights into what kind of form Korean players are in, especially Maru and Byun re: their ongoing injuries. Byun's injuries are more openly talked about since they seem to have some psychological triggers, but Maru's are less talked about. My uninformed perspective is that his injuries have significantly influenced his play over the last few years. There was some time after he had surgery or injections that he seemed to be back to normal but recently it's clear that he's in pain when he plays--he's constantly grabbing his shoulder like he used to back when he was injured. I believe Crank may have said at some point recently that Maru got a delay or exemption from his military service due to his shoulder injury.
Maru's play the last couple years gives me later career Mvp vibes in that it feels like he somewhat reduces extremely fast and micro-intensive multiprong attacks in favor of more strategic eco-boost gambles and sharp timing attacks. He seems to also mostly have given up on his late game turtling strategies. Some of this is surely due to meta shifts (in particular the harsh ghost supply increase). But I wonder how much of it is an honest acknowledgment that his normal aperture of being able to play almost any style of play very effectively is somewhat reduced due to his injuries.
That was a long post to basically say that I wouldn't be surprised to see Maru underperform expectations. I'm really excited to see what Classic, Rogue, and Reynor can do. Hero, Clem, and Serral I expect to be on point.
I trust maru can do it. From the threads that were made about Crank's statements re maru's injuries, he got an exemption. This was prior to dh dallas, which he won.
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EPT
