EPTWhich SC2 expansion had the most entertaining esports? - P…
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
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radracer
United States73 Posts
On July 07 2024 11:37 Whatson wrote: WoL 2010-early 2012 when there was actually hype and the game felt fresh. People were trying some absolutely wild shit even in high-stakes tournaments and SC2 was considered a top dog among video games. Basically started the modern esports boom, the wild west days ended and things got so much more serious / official | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria827 Posts
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Agh
United States984 Posts
The game just needed a few minor changes and it was near perfect. eg) -Slightly rebalance most t1 (mostly unit sizes with very little actual number changes) -Remove high ground warpin -Replace forcefield with a slowing spell -Brood lords no longer spawn units -Infestor in current state -Mules removed from the game (Orbital slightly faster build time, call down supply gives bonus health as well as armor) -1v1 supply cap removed / raised to 300 That a long with not having a lot of its life span wasted on absolutely fucking terrible maps would have been the dream. (Shoebox of war, Delta Quadrant, Metalopolis, Shakuras Plateau, Antiga shityard to name a few) | ||
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Ciaus237
South Africa281 Posts
On July 15 2024 02:30 Agh wrote: WoL simply because every unit that was added to the game simply made it worse. The game just needed a few minor changes and it was near perfect. eg) -Slightly rebalance most t1 (mostly unit sizes with very little actual number changes) -Remove high ground warpin -Replace forcefield with a slowing spell -Brood lords no longer spawn units -Infestor in current state -Mules removed from the game (Orbital slightly faster build time, call down supply gives bonus health as well as armor) That a long with not having a lot of it's life span wasted on absolutely fucking terrible maps would have been the dream. (Shoebox of war, Delta Quadrant, Metalopolis, Shakuras Plateau, Antiga shityard to name a few) Aww yeah some minor changes there. Just a few pixels away from perfect, except for an overhaul of terran economy, terran's core unit DPS density, zerg core unit splash vulnerability, protoss's main early game defence, and all of Zerg lategame. Those are not minor. Those are more substantial than adding a handful of midgame units by miles. WoL was a great game, but it's just unbelievably worse than LotV. | ||
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Agh
United States984 Posts
On July 15 2024 02:42 Ciaus237 wrote: Aww yeah some minor changes there. Just a few pixels away from perfect, except for an overhaul of terran economy, terran's core unit DPS density, zerg core unit splash vulnerability, protoss's main early game defence, and all of Zerg lategame. Those are not minor. Those are more substantial than adding a handful of midgame units by miles. WoL was a great game, but it's just unbelievably worse than LotV. Except literally everything I listed there addresses every issue that you typed out. Won't spoonfeed but something like a ball of marines is significantly less punishing if their size is increased, since it lowers the number that would normally be able to attack (and also would allow things like an additional ling to attack them) The actual unit stat adjustments would be extremely minor and only apply to a few units. These aren't even hindsight ideas since I had someone make a map (unfortunately defunct now) and it was truly a breath of fresh air, and everyone enjoyed it. Edited the supply changes in since that was the only thing I forgot other than Queen changes but it was one of the larger/game altering changes so I didn't include it. + Show Spoiler + for anyone wondering the base idea was 1 queen limit per hatchery. (Injects tied to that hatchery [from anywhere and also overlapping like current], net energy regen increased (resulting in 5 excess per inject, current transfuse). Also had a secondary idea when they played with the idea of auto-injects, but that's separate. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4231 Posts
Hots changes were not the best but there was still something there.....then lotv just killed it with how much wrong it got. Stopped watching sc2 all together when lotv came out. It no longer represented starcraft to me. Played the campaign and did an effort to watch some games but nope. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10345 Posts
How about just start with suggesting 250 supply first... or 225 if we're not trying to make the numbers pretty. | ||
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Gescom
Canada3440 Posts
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radracer
United States73 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4012 Posts
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sertas
Sweden887 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On July 15 2024 20:23 sertas wrote: hots killed the game. Speed dropships ruined starcraft. WOL had terrible endgame but it was far better than anything that came after Speed Drops being your final straw over BL-Festor, Swarm Host mirrors or Tankivacs is...interesting | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3400 Posts
Tempest without the aoe should just be cut it's the dullest concept ever and medivac boost wad the beginning of the end. It's david kim's philosophy of making things that are more "fun" overpowered. The entire game got powercrept ever since with mobility increases and other things that increase the pacing and it was all because of this. In WoL the answer to bl\infestor would've been increasing the size of the maps and\or implementing lotv economy. EMP was there to answer at the time as well, but t's were not good enough to play this. In HotS sh's were fixed so the final iteration was actually good and it was the most balanced version of sc2. All of the overcharge spells were lame Band-Aids, but pylon overcharge is actually better than battery overcharge. If it was spawned from the nexus, the amount of pylon cheeses would've also been kept in check. And I don't think increasing the supply is that game breaking, actually. I made a mod that you can use for WoL it increases supply to 300, pylons give 6 supply only and you start with 12 workers and there is lotv economy, with slightly more minerals on the fat fields. I think something like this would make wol rly interesting to play. There is an elegant simplicity in wol and the game is still really deep. There are other things you could do as well such as lowering vision slightly on most units, especially zerg ones. The 6 supply pylon keeps the 300 supply somewhat in check, while also making it more costly to further your army supply as opposed to remaking army supply. Sc2 can be very snowbally. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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StarcraftHistorian
United States143 Posts
WOL was super hype and obviously when SC2 was on top of the world it was a great time to be a fan. The quality of the games was largely trash though with several minutes of dead air in the early game, and rudimentary mistakes being the deciding factor in so many games. HOTS had an amazing era in Korea with KESPA finally behind SC2, but overall the scene was suffering. Viewership started to tank, we went from one awful stale meta in Broodlord/Infestor, to an even worse meta thanks to Swarmhosts. The HOTS era still produced a load of wonderful moments and I'm happy I never walked away from the game, but imo the HOTS era is what gave the world the perception that the game was dead. The scene was on life support when LOTV released, and here we are 9 years later. We may be struggling with playerbase issues after some years of decline, but overall I think even now we are better off than at the end of HOTS. | ||
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
We had awesome team tournaments, a very competitive scene and nice storylines. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
HotS was by far the better game and I enjoyed playing it far more, but towards the end of it we already started thinning out - in terms of players, personalities and variety in the game itself. And even though LotV is probably an even better game, that trend has only continued. Nowadays I can take a break from the game for months, come back and I'll have missed very little strategic or metagame development. | ||
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inermis
353 Posts
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Slydie
1923 Posts
On July 16 2024 00:06 andrewlt wrote: WoL. BL-infestor and SH killed my interest in watching SC2. BW zerg was the aggressive race. Turning it into the late game turtle race was a total failure. That was not intentional, it was just the best way to play after the Queen range+2 buff. Creep was also way stronger back then, even though the players were much worse at abusing it. The bl/Infestors composition itself was not that problematic, it was just too easy to get there using by hive rushing and spending almost only mineral units to defend. I am still a bit sad the game is balanced around mules, warp gate, chronoboost, injects and Queens, but I am used to it by now. | ||
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