EPTWhich SC2 expansion had the most entertaining esports? - P…
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KristofferAG
Norway25712 Posts
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Nathanias
United States290 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
From the horrible maps, to the lack of balance, GSL bracket phase games being decided by bugs introduced by a new update, i could go on. We had Incontrol and lot of big names were almost exclusively focused on SC2, who in the meantime transitioned away... And it was nice to be known as THE e-sport, or one of the top3 the very least, so yeah... But as far as competitive RTS goes LotV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WoL | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On July 17 2024 19:54 Slydie wrote: That was not intentional, it was just the best way to play after the Queen range+2 buff. Creep was also way stronger back then, even though the players were much worse at avising it. The bl/Infestors composition itself was not that problematic, it was just too easy to get there using by hive rushing and spending almost only mineral units to defend. I am still a bit sad the game is balanced around mules, warp gate, chronoboost, injects and Queens, but I am used to it by now. Oh, the community back then definitely deserves some of the blame for how the game turned out. Back in the 90s, it was considered a newb mistake to tech up without any defenses and get rushed. Imagine my surprise when a large part of the SC2 community considered the rusher the newb and put the onus on Blizzard and mapmakers to defend against it (even in progames). They wanted a turtle meta. They got a turtle meta. In retrospect, SC2's status as THE e-sport at the time was unearned. WoL was released when WoW was at its peak and so was Blizzard's reputation. A lot of people who never were into BW or even RTS in general jumped on the bandwagon. They warped the feedback Blizzard was getting and then they jumped off the bandwagon soon afterwards. | ||
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Agh
United States899 Posts
On July 19 2024 08:46 andrewlt wrote: Oh, the community back then definitely deserves some of the blame for how the game turned out. Back in the 90s, it was considered a newb mistake to tech up without any defenses and get rushed. Imagine my surprise when a large part of the SC2 community considered the rusher the newb and put the onus on Blizzard and mapmakers to defend against it (even in progames). They wanted a turtle meta. They got a turtle meta. In retrospect, SC2's status as THE e-sport at the time was unearned. WoL was released when WoW was at its peak and so was Blizzard's reputation. A lot of people who never were into BW or even RTS in general jumped on the bandwagon. They warped the feedback Blizzard was getting and then they jumped off the bandwagon soon afterwards. Just wanted to point out from an argumentative standpoint you're directly contradicting your point. (Your example could be directly applied to your implication) Aside from that the meta will dictate itself be it perceived or actuality. When there are fundamental issues with the game that are brought to light and acknowledged from pretty much your entire playerbase and they go ignored (or acknowledge and mocked a la DK) the quality and longevity of your game is going to suffer. SC2 had everything you could hope for in a title, and even with all of its flaws it was still -that- good. To correct you a little bit WoW's decline was very much underway. The neglect SC2 received didn't help and they were both very much contributors to the overall decline of blizzard that noticeably began around that time. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 16 2024 17:51 inermis wrote: this shouldn't be a discussion, its obvious, #1 WoL - new game, everyone learning the game, new strategies everyday, huge hype all around the world. #2 LotV - game became quicker and more fun to spectate. #3 HotS - swarm hosts... need i say more lol... Proleague, Kespa - both were present mostly in HotS. We had the most competitive scene in the history of SC2. Just check some RO16 back then... Gameplaywise - screw speed medivacs and anything that came after them. | ||
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Husyelt
United States823 Posts
WoL was so bad for so long, HotS was finally beginning to become ok, but LotV is the best for balance and game variation / playstyles. edit and when i say WoL was so bad, i mean its still the greatest game of all time | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13967 Posts
On July 21 2024 11:13 Husyelt wrote: LotV and its not even close, anyone saying otherwise is cope WoL was so bad for so long, HotS was finally beginning to become ok, but LotV is the best for balance and game variation / playstyles. edit and when i say WoL was so bad, i mean its still the greatest game of all time Considering the poll asked what was entertaining, a metric that is subjective by nature, to call a different opinion cope might be reddit level stupidity. | ||
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Slydie
1913 Posts
On July 21 2024 00:57 Agh wrote: Just wanted to point out from an argumentative standpoint you're directly contradicting your point. (Your example could be directly applied to your implication) Aside from that the meta will dictate itself be it perceived or actuality. When there are fundamental issues with the game that are brought to light and acknowledged from pretty much your entire playerbase and they go ignored (or acknowledge and mocked a la DK) the quality and longevity of your game is going to suffer. SC2 had everything you could hope for in a title, and even with all of its flaws it was still -that- good. To correct you a little bit WoW's decline was very much underway. The neglect SC2 received didn't help and they were both very much contributors to the overall decline of blizzard that noticeably began around that time. If we are playing the hindsight game, Blizzard refusing to make their own MOBA game was probably the worst decision for their e-sports. Heroes of the Storm was WAY too late. LoL and Dota 2 did to them what Blizzard used to be the best at: finding a proven game formula and upping the game quality and player experience. Heck, Why didn't they make an amazing mobile Tower Defense game as well? The WoL era was amazing for quantity of player personalities leagues, and tournaments, but it was obviously not sustainable, and still isn't. If that equals "entertaining" is subjective. | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On July 21 2024 11:13 Husyelt wrote: LotV and its not even close, anyone saying otherwise is cope WoL was so bad for so long, HotS was finally beginning to become ok, but LotV is the best for balance and game variation / playstyles. edit and when i say WoL was so bad, i mean its still the greatest game of all time So much game variation and playstyle variation, skytoss and mech are in the shitter, mutas are non existent outside of ZvZ and everyone gets 4 bases for free before the game starts | ||
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Drahkn
186 Posts
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Drahkn
186 Posts
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imData
France32 Posts
But in terms of level and "wow" it's definitely LotV by far. Even the worst players in Katowice today would roll over the best players in Blizzcon from peak HotS era. Just because of the absurd step-up in mechanics. | ||
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Husyelt
United States823 Posts
On July 21 2024 12:10 Cricketer12 wrote: Considering the poll asked what was entertaining, a metric that is subjective by nature, to call a different opinion cope might be reddit level stupidity. yeah i shit post deal with it opinions are wrong, sorry. LotV has the most fluid gameplay and offers the most playstyles. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13967 Posts
On July 25 2024 14:20 Husyelt wrote: yeah i shit post deal with it opinions are wrong, sorry. LotV has the most fluid gameplay and offers the most playstyles. Don't cut yourself on all that edge. | ||
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Husyelt
United States823 Posts
garbage response do better. shitposting has rules, rules Cricketer this is TL.net, the most hallowed of all StarCraft forums, you need to pair your "edge" comment (frankly overdone), with something tangible. The only thing Hots has going for it was the higher number of top pros at the time. Other than that they all were playing in primitive playstyles on a primitive expansion pack. | ||
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic613 Posts
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
HotS was probably the most fun to play once they ironed stuff out and got rid of the broken stuff. I also wouldn't begrudge anyone for picking it because Proleague was around at that time and while there were some bad metas like swarmhost stuff, blink stalkers, etc, they never stuck around long enough to be truly awful. LotV just kind of...doesn't really offer anything? I guess it's the fastest and probably has the most interesting games on average, but that's just in a vacuum without any context. | ||
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Comedy
453 Posts
On July 04 2024 22:21 dysenterymd wrote: 100%, even though HotS had multiple metas that were a complete mess (mainly Swarmhosts and hellbats being the main culprits, though early 2014 TvP was also miserable), everything besides the meta itself was so much more exciting. By the second half of 2015 the HotS meta was pretty good though (I never minded the mine-out mech games, but maybe I'm in the minority there), wouldn't have minded if it lasted a little longer. The game itself has been in its best state since 2020 though, sad that that coincided with the scene shrinking so much. Proleague in this gamestate would be amazing. hots towards the end was awful. Sentries + Blink + mothership core mechanic was a disaster for the game in pvz | ||
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