EPTWhich SC2 expansion had the most entertaining esports?
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TL.net Bot
TL.net129 Posts
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Chris_Havoc
United States598 Posts
Miss some of the maps from the HotS-era too like Overgrowth, King Sejong Station, Frost LE, and Habitation Station. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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dysenterymd
1176 Posts
On July 04 2024 22:13 Fango wrote: HotS did, but not necessarily because the game was always in the best state. We just had a much bigger scene, and Proleague was always the most entertaining Starcraft tournament. Plus the larger WCS circuit, Blizzcon etc 100%, even though HotS had multiple metas that were a complete mess (mainly Swarmhosts and hellbats being the main culprits, though early 2014 TvP was also miserable), everything besides the meta itself was so much more exciting. By the second half of 2015 the HotS meta was pretty good though (I never minded the mine-out mech games, but maybe I'm in the minority there), wouldn't have minded if it lasted a little longer. The game itself has been in its best state since 2020 though, sad that that coincided with the scene shrinking so much. Proleague in this gamestate would be amazing. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13966 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On July 04 2024 22:21 dysenterymd wrote: 100%, even though HotS had multiple metas that were a complete mess (mainly Swarmhosts and hellbats being the main culprits, though early 2014 TvP was also miserable), everything besides the meta itself was so much more exciting. By the second half of 2015 the HotS meta was pretty good though (I never minded the mine-out mech games, but maybe I'm in the minority there), wouldn't have minded if it lasted a little longer. The game itself has been in its best state since 2020 though, sad that that coincided with the scene shrinking so much. Proleague in this gamestate would be amazing. I think 2017/2018 had just as good of a gamestate as 2020 onwards and the scene was in a much healthier state. Although there was no Proleague anymore, 2017/2018 still had a strong, exciting GSL and the story of emerging strong foreigners (Neeb, then Serral) and I think the circuit system was better (WCS EU and WCS NA being a battle of "washed up" koreans was a bit of a mess). Overall, my vote goes to LotV because of 2017/2018 being my favorite sc2 years. 2016 and 2019 unfortunately had a much worse gamestate, then Covid happened and after that the scene basically was a shadow of its former self | ||
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radracer
United States69 Posts
When Barcrafts were happening all the time and SC2 was the most popular esport on the planet: it's WoL. | ||
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Xamo
Spain876 Posts
There were so many tournaments, with almost all historically relevant players participating... and on top of it felt nicely balanced. | ||
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Starcloud
137 Posts
On July 05 2024 03:38 radracer wrote: PURELY Entertaining? It's gotta be when the game was new/fresh/hype When Barcrafts were happening all the time and SC2 was the most popular esport on the planet: it's WoL. Yeah, agree 100% on this. Everything was new. HYPE was good. New strategies emerged all the time. Playerbase was in its peak and new talents were coming/going frequently. Very entertaining and surprising. Only thing missing was foreingers success, which we had to wait for bit too long to emerge. As I loved the zerg and especially the single player campaign in HOTS, the majority of it was pretty dissapointing in terms of e-sports. Of course all remember the dreaded BL/Infestor-era, which we would gladly erase from SC2 history if given the choice. The end of expansion started to be bit better if I recall right. LOTV is kinda divided expansion for me. I think nowadays the balance is and has been actually pretty good, though terran is bit favoured especially in TvZ. Nothing major though. Bit downside is, that early game and proper cheeses have almost gone and the lategame seem to be a bit dull at times. So all in all, for me its; WOTL -------------> LOTV---------> HOTS. SUGGESTION::: Nowadays seems that nostalgia is the name of the game in gaming industry; WOW, Fortnite, PUBG, WC3 etc. seem to bring the OG-maps and gameplays back and they seem to be very popular. What IF there would be a chance to play with WOTL maps and units etc. ? With different server ? Would that bring back players or create any hype ?  | ||
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Blitzball04
146 Posts
WOL and HOTS was literally boring especially the first couple minutes of just building workers. HOtS definitely was the worst due to some of the most cancer build such as swarm host vs swarm host. Or turtle mass raven/mech hiding in their main and trying to make the game into a draw | ||
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Ciaus237
South Africa258 Posts
On July 05 2024 06:08 Blitzball04 wrote:Definitely LoTV in terms of viewing experience and skill level WOL and HOTS was literally boring especially the first couple minutes of just building workers. HOtS definitely was the worst due to some of the most cancer build such as swarm host vs swarm host. Or turtle mass raven/mech hiding in their main and trying to make the game into a draw 100% this. Going back to watch old blizzcon and gsl videos is, despite the nostalgia, a bit painful. The pacing just feels slow, and the number of genuinely awful late-games in HotS is just too high for me to rank it above LotV in viewing experience. Helps that LotV has also been around long enough to collect a lot of good games. | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4492 Posts
LotV > WoL > HotS | ||
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Riquiz
Netherlands402 Posts
If you enjoyed the flourishing of the scene and lots of people learning about starcraft and all of its inticracies together with the whole esports scene + twitch exploding? Yeah WoL and HotS take the cake. Do you enjoy high level high quality starcraft with foreigners slowly creeping up on the koreans? LotV I have a lot of nostalgia for WoL and HotS - as a player I enjoyed HotS the most - but I think LotV is just arms and shoulders above its predecessors. (although the WoL campaign still kicks ass) | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2572 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
On July 04 2024 22:13 Fango wrote: HotS did, but not necessarily because the game was always in the best state. We just had a much bigger scene, and Proleague was always the most entertaining Starcraft tournament. Plus the larger WCS circuit, Blizzcon etc I'd like to also add that with HotS, we actually had an early and mid game. Now there's no early game and mid game lasts for about 3 minutes and late game kicks in at 10 minutes. The game is way too fast for it to be entertaining to watch. With Legacy of the Void, the game doesn't feel as entertaining to watch anymore. A lot of players do the same strats as everyone else and it all comes down to who can macro and micro better. I'm sure other players who are more knowledgeable in the game disagree but that's what it feels like when I watch now. I find CS2 and LoL to be more entertaining to watch nowadays, and I was never a LoL fan. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24300 Posts
WoL had novelty which was nice, HotS had probs the peak of competitivity and Legacy probably had the best game state. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1804 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19202 Posts
LOTV is peak in game entertainment. The flow to the game has vastly improved over the past couple years. HoTS is barely memorable. What I remember are just the boring stalemate games. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On July 05 2024 10:21 geokilla wrote: I'd like to also add that with HotS, we actually had an early and mid game. Now there's no early game and mid game lasts for about 3 minutes and late game kicks in at 10 minutes. The game is way too fast for it to be entertaining to watch. With Legacy of the Void, the game doesn't feel as entertaining to watch anymore. A lot of players do the same strats as everyone else and it all comes down to who can macro and micro better. I'm sure other players who are more knowledgeable in the game disagree but that's what it feels like when I watch now. I find CS2 and LoL to be more entertaining to watch nowadays, and I was never a LoL fan. Wings was definitely the most entertaining era for me, balance issues and relative skill level (compared to today) aside, especially with the sheer volume of events/tournaments, much better player diversity paired with the general novelty/popularity of the game. I 100% agree that the 12 worker start made the game less entertaining to watch overall. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On July 05 2024 08:41 Riquiz wrote: Depends on what you enjoy the most I think. If you enjoyed the flourishing of the scene and lots of people learning about starcraft and all of its inticracies together with the whole esports scene + twitch exploding? Yeah WoL and HotS take the cake. Do you enjoy high level high quality starcraft with foreigners slowly creeping up on the koreans? LotV I have a lot of nostalgia for WoL and HotS - as a player I enjoyed HotS the most - but I think LotV is just arms and shoulders above its predecessors. (although the WoL campaign still kicks ass) Haha, same, as a more defensive Terran player with a mech affinity HotS just offered the best environment for me to play, by far. | ||
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tokinho
United States785 Posts
HOTS was interesting especially when proleague started the SKT1 Protoss literally made the meta. There was a time when I started really getting involved and laddering that I felt like I understood it. All the games started really going late. Some of the wildest games happened in this era, like the 2 hours gumiho vs losira match with like 20 minutes below 100 supply. Proleague was my favorite tournament of all time. Lower level player often liked the turtle fest. (Unless the got rolled by skill.Hosts) LOTV was great to see protoss not turtle at some point and wait for late game. But Protoss representation overall has been bad. It's felt like ZvT the entire patch has dominated except Zest and Parting. Innovation games were so consistent and predictable. Korea felt like it's fallen off over time except Byun, Maru, Gumiho, Dark, and Parting. (ye I never felt like Hero has been as good as Parting) For me the best strategic and mechanical games have been LOTV. I don't like that some maps just typically end up as stomps. The maps have at times been worst in LOTV than the other 2. I felt like after liquid.Bunny left, EU had no strong terrans for a while and then there was 2.0 with a period of new young players that have been super fun. (I.e. Firefly, Nightmare, Reynor, Clem, Jieshi, Trigger, Future, Astrea) | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On July 05 2024 20:40 Creager wrote: Wings was definitely the most entertaining era for me, balance issues and relative skill level (compared to today) aside, especially with the sheer volume of events/tournaments, much better player diversity paired with the general novelty/popularity of the game. I 100% agree that the 12 worker start made the game less entertaining to watch overall. I think the 12 worker start made the average game more entertaining to watch, but it made strategic depth a high-stakes proxies less of a thing. We see a much greater variety of openers now, but they all kinda end up the same | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2192 Posts
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Captain Peabody
United States3096 Posts
HotS is idolized by some but I'm not really sure why, as the gameplay and viewer experience was kind of all over the place with Swarm Host and Blink eras and the scene while there was a ton of content had nothing super exciting or unique going on. Of course, answers will likely vary a lot based on what each person actually watched and enjoyed and what players and tournaments they were most personally hyped for, as that's probably a bigger determinant than anything else. | ||
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yubo56
685 Posts
I think lotv is one of the most consistently entertaining, but nothing will beat peak hots imo. You had this sense that the scene was at its healthiest and most polished. Wol was more hype and new, but felt unpolished and has aged the worst (just b/c the skill level was so much lower compared to pro play today), while lotv has coincided with a rapidly diminishing scene, which decreases hype (even though the play itself is at its highest level, and games from early lotv have aged very well). The best of hots just manages to lie at the intersection of these two for me, as the goldilocks expansion. | ||
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Slydie
1913 Posts
20 Infestors spamming Infested terrans with 3-3 upgrades anyone? Hots was ok, but does anyone really miss the Mothership core and its Nexus click? The Helbat Drop craze was embarrassing, and endless rally pushes in TvZ became boring. Lotv is the best designed version of the game by far. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20278 Posts
On July 05 2024 20:27 BisuDagger wrote: WoL was peak entertainment given all the personalities involved between players, casters, event organizers, and shows in between. LOTV is peak in game entertainment. The flow to the game has vastly improved over the past couple years. HoTS is barely memorable. What I remember are just the boring stalemate games. Wasn't there a single game in a series that took 3 hours of realtime because of swarmhost stalemate draw into replay swarmhost stalemate? :D | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On July 05 2024 21:47 Fango wrote: I think the 12 worker start made the average game more entertaining to watch, but it made strategic depth a high-stakes proxies less of a thing. We see a much greater variety of openers now, but they all kinda end up the same Spot on, but exactly how do you define the average game? Both players opting for macro? High-stakes options is exactly what I want to have at the player's disposal, I don't really see the appeal in having diverse openers when everything, the failed 2-base all-in included, can transition into a macro game. | ||
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freelifeffs
97 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9128 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8302 Posts
Kyrix vs Foxer Huk vs Idra Idea vs MMA DRG vs MMA Nestea vs Mvp Mvp vs MMA Mvp vs Squirtle It was new it was fresh, and it might’ve been I’m a as shit but damn was it entertaining, for me as a spectator. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44019 Posts
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
WoL only problem was the first 5 minutes in each game. It should have started with 10-12 workers. Daybreak could have been the map of all time if that rock in the middle was indestructible. Because of that destructible rock, the games became stalemate immediately. | ||
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
And to that my answer is: Proleague. This was the time when I truly started to understand and appreciate the impact and importance of preparation to the oppenent, map and matchup meta. Before that I was the "just play noble, straight up game without these early unfair cheese proxy shenanigans!" guy, but then "i stopped worrying and learned to love the $O$"  On top of that we had the TL fantasy Proleague which even further added spice to the results of the matches. On the other hand the 12 worker start in LotV killed a lot of early game strategy variance which to this day saddens me. I really miss mixing different forge and gateway openers in PvZ. So for me it would be HotS > LotV > WoL | ||
Waxangel
United States33173 Posts
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Luolis
Finland7097 Posts
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lestye
United States4149 Posts
On July 07 2024 05:35 Waxangel wrote: The gameplay might have sucked, but I think first two years of WoL were really fun because of the sheer volume and variety of tournaments. MLG, NASL, DreamHack, IPL, IEM all holding live events with their own unique character... Yeah they were all ruined by BL-Infestor in terms of the actual games, but the vibes were great. Yeah, it's hard to argue with this. I think LotV was a much, much better game but the optimism, and having SC2 be THE premier game when streaming and starting a new era of Western esports. | ||
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BeoMulf
United States83 Posts
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phodacbiet
United States1739 Posts
That being said, it was much more hyped during WOL. It probably was because the game was new and modern esports was still young, but the crowds were much better. I think had LoTV been the game that was delivered off the bat sc2 would be a much bigger esport. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
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radracer
United States69 Posts
On July 07 2024 11:37 Whatson wrote: WoL 2010-early 2012 when there was actually hype and the game felt fresh. People were trying some absolutely wild shit even in high-stakes tournaments and SC2 was considered a top dog among video games. Basically started the modern esports boom, the wild west days ended and things got so much more serious / official | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria817 Posts
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Agh
United States899 Posts
The game just needed a few minor changes and it was near perfect. eg) -Slightly rebalance most t1 (mostly unit sizes with very little actual number changes) -Remove high ground warpin -Replace forcefield with a slowing spell -Brood lords no longer spawn units -Infestor in current state -Mules removed from the game (Orbital slightly faster build time, call down supply gives bonus health as well as armor) -1v1 supply cap removed / raised to 300 That a long with not having a lot of its life span wasted on absolutely fucking terrible maps would have been the dream. (Shoebox of war, Delta Quadrant, Metalopolis, Shakuras Plateau, Antiga shityard to name a few) | ||
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Ciaus237
South Africa258 Posts
On July 15 2024 02:30 Agh wrote: WoL simply because every unit that was added to the game simply made it worse. The game just needed a few minor changes and it was near perfect. eg) -Slightly rebalance most t1 (mostly unit sizes with very little actual number changes) -Remove high ground warpin -Replace forcefield with a slowing spell -Brood lords no longer spawn units -Infestor in current state -Mules removed from the game (Orbital slightly faster build time, call down supply gives bonus health as well as armor) That a long with not having a lot of it's life span wasted on absolutely fucking terrible maps would have been the dream. (Shoebox of war, Delta Quadrant, Metalopolis, Shakuras Plateau, Antiga shityard to name a few) Aww yeah some minor changes there. Just a few pixels away from perfect, except for an overhaul of terran economy, terran's core unit DPS density, zerg core unit splash vulnerability, protoss's main early game defence, and all of Zerg lategame. Those are not minor. Those are more substantial than adding a handful of midgame units by miles. WoL was a great game, but it's just unbelievably worse than LotV. | ||
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Agh
United States899 Posts
On July 15 2024 02:42 Ciaus237 wrote: Aww yeah some minor changes there. Just a few pixels away from perfect, except for an overhaul of terran economy, terran's core unit DPS density, zerg core unit splash vulnerability, protoss's main early game defence, and all of Zerg lategame. Those are not minor. Those are more substantial than adding a handful of midgame units by miles. WoL was a great game, but it's just unbelievably worse than LotV. Except literally everything I listed there addresses every issue that you typed out. Won't spoonfeed but something like a ball of marines is significantly less punishing if their size is increased, since it lowers the number that would normally be able to attack (and also would allow things like an additional ling to attack them) The actual unit stat adjustments would be extremely minor and only apply to a few units. These aren't even hindsight ideas since I had someone make a map (unfortunately defunct now) and it was truly a breath of fresh air, and everyone enjoyed it. Edited the supply changes in since that was the only thing I forgot other than Queen changes but it was one of the larger/game altering changes so I didn't include it. + Show Spoiler + for anyone wondering the base idea was 1 queen limit per hatchery. (Injects tied to that hatchery [from anywhere and also overlapping like current], net energy regen increased (resulting in 5 excess per inject, current transfuse). Also had a secondary idea when they played with the idea of auto-injects, but that's separate. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
Hots changes were not the best but there was still something there.....then lotv just killed it with how much wrong it got. Stopped watching sc2 all together when lotv came out. It no longer represented starcraft to me. Played the campaign and did an effort to watch some games but nope. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10313 Posts
How about just start with suggesting 250 supply first... or 225 if we're not trying to make the numbers pretty. | ||
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Gescom
Canada3320 Posts
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radracer
United States69 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3995 Posts
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sertas
Sweden879 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13966 Posts
On July 15 2024 20:23 sertas wrote: hots killed the game. Speed dropships ruined starcraft. WOL had terrible endgame but it was far better than anything that came after Speed Drops being your final straw over BL-Festor, Swarm Host mirrors or Tankivacs is...interesting | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3340 Posts
Tempest without the aoe should just be cut it's the dullest concept ever and medivac boost wad the beginning of the end. It's david kim's philosophy of making things that are more "fun" overpowered. The entire game got powercrept ever since with mobility increases and other things that increase the pacing and it was all because of this. In WoL the answer to bl\infestor would've been increasing the size of the maps and\or implementing lotv economy. EMP was there to answer at the time as well, but t's were not good enough to play this. In HotS sh's were fixed so the final iteration was actually good and it was the most balanced version of sc2. All of the overcharge spells were lame Band-Aids, but pylon overcharge is actually better than battery overcharge. If it was spawned from the nexus, the amount of pylon cheeses would've also been kept in check. And I don't think increasing the supply is that game breaking, actually. I made a mod that you can use for WoL it increases supply to 300, pylons give 6 supply only and you start with 12 workers and there is lotv economy, with slightly more minerals on the fat fields. I think something like this would make wol rly interesting to play. There is an elegant simplicity in wol and the game is still really deep. There are other things you could do as well such as lowering vision slightly on most units, especially zerg ones. The 6 supply pylon keeps the 300 supply somewhat in check, while also making it more costly to further your army supply as opposed to remaking army supply. Sc2 can be very snowbally. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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StarcraftHistorian
United States132 Posts
WOL was super hype and obviously when SC2 was on top of the world it was a great time to be a fan. The quality of the games was largely trash though with several minutes of dead air in the early game, and rudimentary mistakes being the deciding factor in so many games. HOTS had an amazing era in Korea with KESPA finally behind SC2, but overall the scene was suffering. Viewership started to tank, we went from one awful stale meta in Broodlord/Infestor, to an even worse meta thanks to Swarmhosts. The HOTS era still produced a load of wonderful moments and I'm happy I never walked away from the game, but imo the HOTS era is what gave the world the perception that the game was dead. The scene was on life support when LOTV released, and here we are 9 years later. We may be struggling with playerbase issues after some years of decline, but overall I think even now we are better off than at the end of HOTS. | ||
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
We had awesome team tournaments, a very competitive scene and nice storylines. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
HotS was by far the better game and I enjoyed playing it far more, but towards the end of it we already started thinning out - in terms of players, personalities and variety in the game itself. And even though LotV is probably an even better game, that trend has only continued. Nowadays I can take a break from the game for months, come back and I'll have missed very little strategic or metagame development. | ||
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inermis
353 Posts
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Slydie
1913 Posts
On July 16 2024 00:06 andrewlt wrote: WoL. BL-infestor and SH killed my interest in watching SC2. BW zerg was the aggressive race. Turning it into the late game turtle race was a total failure. That was not intentional, it was just the best way to play after the Queen range+2 buff. Creep was also way stronger back then, even though the players were much worse at abusing it. The bl/Infestors composition itself was not that problematic, it was just too easy to get there using by hive rushing and spending almost only mineral units to defend. I am still a bit sad the game is balanced around mules, warp gate, chronoboost, injects and Queens, but I am used to it by now. | ||
KristofferAG
Norway25712 Posts
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Nathanias
United States290 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
From the horrible maps, to the lack of balance, GSL bracket phase games being decided by bugs introduced by a new update, i could go on. We had Incontrol and lot of big names were almost exclusively focused on SC2, who in the meantime transitioned away... And it was nice to be known as THE e-sport, or one of the top3 the very least, so yeah... But as far as competitive RTS goes LotV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WoL | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On July 17 2024 19:54 Slydie wrote: That was not intentional, it was just the best way to play after the Queen range+2 buff. Creep was also way stronger back then, even though the players were much worse at avising it. The bl/Infestors composition itself was not that problematic, it was just too easy to get there using by hive rushing and spending almost only mineral units to defend. I am still a bit sad the game is balanced around mules, warp gate, chronoboost, injects and Queens, but I am used to it by now. Oh, the community back then definitely deserves some of the blame for how the game turned out. Back in the 90s, it was considered a newb mistake to tech up without any defenses and get rushed. Imagine my surprise when a large part of the SC2 community considered the rusher the newb and put the onus on Blizzard and mapmakers to defend against it (even in progames). They wanted a turtle meta. They got a turtle meta. In retrospect, SC2's status as THE e-sport at the time was unearned. WoL was released when WoW was at its peak and so was Blizzard's reputation. A lot of people who never were into BW or even RTS in general jumped on the bandwagon. They warped the feedback Blizzard was getting and then they jumped off the bandwagon soon afterwards. | ||
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Agh
United States899 Posts
On July 19 2024 08:46 andrewlt wrote: Oh, the community back then definitely deserves some of the blame for how the game turned out. Back in the 90s, it was considered a newb mistake to tech up without any defenses and get rushed. Imagine my surprise when a large part of the SC2 community considered the rusher the newb and put the onus on Blizzard and mapmakers to defend against it (even in progames). They wanted a turtle meta. They got a turtle meta. In retrospect, SC2's status as THE e-sport at the time was unearned. WoL was released when WoW was at its peak and so was Blizzard's reputation. A lot of people who never were into BW or even RTS in general jumped on the bandwagon. They warped the feedback Blizzard was getting and then they jumped off the bandwagon soon afterwards. Just wanted to point out from an argumentative standpoint you're directly contradicting your point. (Your example could be directly applied to your implication) Aside from that the meta will dictate itself be it perceived or actuality. When there are fundamental issues with the game that are brought to light and acknowledged from pretty much your entire playerbase and they go ignored (or acknowledge and mocked a la DK) the quality and longevity of your game is going to suffer. SC2 had everything you could hope for in a title, and even with all of its flaws it was still -that- good. To correct you a little bit WoW's decline was very much underway. The neglect SC2 received didn't help and they were both very much contributors to the overall decline of blizzard that noticeably began around that time. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 16 2024 17:51 inermis wrote: this shouldn't be a discussion, its obvious, #1 WoL - new game, everyone learning the game, new strategies everyday, huge hype all around the world. #2 LotV - game became quicker and more fun to spectate. #3 HotS - swarm hosts... need i say more lol... Proleague, Kespa - both were present mostly in HotS. We had the most competitive scene in the history of SC2. Just check some RO16 back then... Gameplaywise - screw speed medivacs and anything that came after them. | ||
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Husyelt
United States822 Posts
WoL was so bad for so long, HotS was finally beginning to become ok, but LotV is the best for balance and game variation / playstyles. edit and when i say WoL was so bad, i mean its still the greatest game of all time | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13966 Posts
On July 21 2024 11:13 Husyelt wrote: LotV and its not even close, anyone saying otherwise is cope WoL was so bad for so long, HotS was finally beginning to become ok, but LotV is the best for balance and game variation / playstyles. edit and when i say WoL was so bad, i mean its still the greatest game of all time Considering the poll asked what was entertaining, a metric that is subjective by nature, to call a different opinion cope might be reddit level stupidity. | ||
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Slydie
1913 Posts
On July 21 2024 00:57 Agh wrote: Just wanted to point out from an argumentative standpoint you're directly contradicting your point. (Your example could be directly applied to your implication) Aside from that the meta will dictate itself be it perceived or actuality. When there are fundamental issues with the game that are brought to light and acknowledged from pretty much your entire playerbase and they go ignored (or acknowledge and mocked a la DK) the quality and longevity of your game is going to suffer. SC2 had everything you could hope for in a title, and even with all of its flaws it was still -that- good. To correct you a little bit WoW's decline was very much underway. The neglect SC2 received didn't help and they were both very much contributors to the overall decline of blizzard that noticeably began around that time. If we are playing the hindsight game, Blizzard refusing to make their own MOBA game was probably the worst decision for their e-sports. Heroes of the Storm was WAY too late. LoL and Dota 2 did to them what Blizzard used to be the best at: finding a proven game formula and upping the game quality and player experience. Heck, Why didn't they make an amazing mobile Tower Defense game as well? The WoL era was amazing for quantity of player personalities leagues, and tournaments, but it was obviously not sustainable, and still isn't. If that equals "entertaining" is subjective. | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On July 21 2024 11:13 Husyelt wrote: LotV and its not even close, anyone saying otherwise is cope WoL was so bad for so long, HotS was finally beginning to become ok, but LotV is the best for balance and game variation / playstyles. edit and when i say WoL was so bad, i mean its still the greatest game of all time So much game variation and playstyle variation, skytoss and mech are in the shitter, mutas are non existent outside of ZvZ and everyone gets 4 bases for free before the game starts | ||
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Drahkn
186 Posts
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Drahkn
186 Posts
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imData
France32 Posts
But in terms of level and "wow" it's definitely LotV by far. Even the worst players in Katowice today would roll over the best players in Blizzcon from peak HotS era. Just because of the absurd step-up in mechanics. | ||
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Husyelt
United States822 Posts
On July 21 2024 12:10 Cricketer12 wrote: Considering the poll asked what was entertaining, a metric that is subjective by nature, to call a different opinion cope might be reddit level stupidity. yeah i shit post deal with it opinions are wrong, sorry. LotV has the most fluid gameplay and offers the most playstyles. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13966 Posts
On July 25 2024 14:20 Husyelt wrote: yeah i shit post deal with it opinions are wrong, sorry. LotV has the most fluid gameplay and offers the most playstyles. Don't cut yourself on all that edge. | ||
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Husyelt
United States822 Posts
garbage response do better. shitposting has rules, rules Cricketer this is TL.net, the most hallowed of all StarCraft forums, you need to pair your "edge" comment (frankly overdone), with something tangible. The only thing Hots has going for it was the higher number of top pros at the time. Other than that they all were playing in primitive playstyles on a primitive expansion pack. | ||
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic613 Posts
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
HotS was probably the most fun to play once they ironed stuff out and got rid of the broken stuff. I also wouldn't begrudge anyone for picking it because Proleague was around at that time and while there were some bad metas like swarmhost stuff, blink stalkers, etc, they never stuck around long enough to be truly awful. LotV just kind of...doesn't really offer anything? I guess it's the fastest and probably has the most interesting games on average, but that's just in a vacuum without any context. | ||
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Comedy
453 Posts
On July 04 2024 22:21 dysenterymd wrote: 100%, even though HotS had multiple metas that were a complete mess (mainly Swarmhosts and hellbats being the main culprits, though early 2014 TvP was also miserable), everything besides the meta itself was so much more exciting. By the second half of 2015 the HotS meta was pretty good though (I never minded the mine-out mech games, but maybe I'm in the minority there), wouldn't have minded if it lasted a little longer. The game itself has been in its best state since 2020 though, sad that that coincided with the scene shrinking so much. Proleague in this gamestate would be amazing. hots towards the end was awful. Sentries + Blink + mothership core mechanic was a disaster for the game in pvz | ||
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