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Poopi
France12785 Posts
On May 29 2024 04:16 WombaT wrote: Ah yes the echo chamber with constant disagreement and discourse in it, that one. I mean for his defense there were like 3 or 4 posts praising one of the best sc2 players of all time for his skills, that’s more than usual for our angry boomers ,14 people forum (not my words :D  | ||
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Comedy
456 Posts
On May 29 2024 04:16 WombaT wrote: Ah yes the echo chamber with constant disagreement and discourse in it, that one. Eventually everyone that disagrees bows out and let's the same 8 people just talk to each other about how they're right, I have been in these threads for months now and it's always what happens, so yes, it always ends up like an echo chamber | ||
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Glorfindelio
202 Posts
On May 29 2024 05:42 Comedy wrote: Eventually everyone that disagrees bows out and let's the same 8 people just talk to each other about how they're right, I have been in these threads for months now and it's always what happens, so yes, it always ends up like an echo chamber Hey now, the same handful of individuals writing 80% of the posts doesn't quite comprise a chamber. More like time as a flat circle. | ||
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
That said, Mvp is the goat stuchiu was right I'm a fossil get boomed like the celtics will get boomed by the mavs mizenhauer also posts like the ones by Pandain and Ronski in the first page are exactly what I'm talking about. Clem and Maxpax lmaooooooooooooooooooooo | ||
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Poopi
France12785 Posts
All hail to INno the true goat  | ||
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
On May 29 2024 15:52 Poopi wrote: Mvp the goat? All hail to INno the true goat at least u know the age old moon adage. koreans own white dudes | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6879 Posts
On May 21 2024 23:35 Charoisaur wrote: I'd add to that that Serrals record against Maru is almost solely based on 2022-2024 as they hardly faced each other before that. I think Maru can still be the Goat despite another player being better than him for 2.5 years out of Marus 14 year career. Of course it can never be proven but I think Serral got quite lucky he mostly avoided Maru from 2018-2021 as his ZvT back then wasn't on the level as it was in 2022-2024 and he lost multiple important series against the likes of Byun, Cure, Inno, Clem during that time Wait what? Serral got "lucky"? Maru bombed out of every tournament he entered, goat my ass. That's hardly Serrals fault that Maru was so afraid he rather took an early exit than get swept by Serral | ||
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
On May 29 2024 16:08 Harris1st wrote: Wait what? Serral got "lucky"? Maru bombed out of every tournament he entered, goat my ass. That's hardly Serrals fault that Maru was so afraid he rather took an early exit than get swept by Serral It's totally fair to say that he got lucky. Read the message. It's not like ZvT prowess is particularly rewarded in the foreigner circuits anyway, since foreigner Terrans are a rare breed. Spanking Special is not the same as spanking Maru. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25010 Posts
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Ciaus237
South Africa278 Posts
On May 29 2024 16:41 Wintex wrote: It's totally fair to say that he got lucky. Read the message. It's not like ZvT prowess is particularly rewarded in the foreigner circuits anyway, since foreigner Terrans are a rare breed. Spanking Special is not the same as spanking Maru. He was lucky in that he was able to beat more of the players at those tournaments  Much luck. How the dice rolled for him to be better. | ||
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elizabethturner
1 Post
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Harris1st
Germany6879 Posts
On May 29 2024 16:41 Wintex wrote: It's totally fair to say that he got lucky. Read the message. It's not like ZvT prowess is particularly rewarded in the foreigner circuits anyway, since foreigner Terrans are a rare breed. Spanking Special is not the same as spanking Maru. You mean how Serral spanked Inno in GSLvWorld18? Or won vs Taeja then spanked Bunny and then won vs Inno at HSC18? Or how he defeatet TY in GSLvWorld19? Yeah Serral got really lucky | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15918 Posts
On May 29 2024 16:08 Harris1st wrote: Wait what? Serral got "lucky"? Maru bombed out of every tournament he entered, goat my ass. That's hardly Serrals fault that Maru was so afraid he rather took an early exit than get swept by Serral Read the context... In regards to his record against Maru it is indeed 'luck' that most of their encounters fell into the period where he was most favored against him. Anyone watching the game realizes Serral significantly stepped up his ZvT from 2022 on. and it's not like Serral never lost during that period, he also had losses vs many players, the brackets just never worked out for Maru and Serral to meet each other | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15918 Posts
On May 29 2024 18:49 Harris1st wrote: You mean how Serral spanked Inno in GSLvWorld18? Or won vs Taeja then spanked Bunny and then won vs Inno at HSC18? Or how he defeatet TY in GSLvWorld19? Yeah Serral got really lucky Yeah he won some and lost some during that period. I can also reiterate his losses vs Inno (Katowice/WESG), vs Cure 0-3 and 1-4, had a pretty bad sting of losses vs Clem, lost to fresh out of military ByuN | ||
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Pentarp
218 Posts
On May 29 2024 16:08 Harris1st wrote: Wait what? Serral got "lucky"? Maru bombed out of every tournament he entered, goat my ass. That's hardly Serrals fault that Maru was so afraid he rather took an early exit than get swept by Serral Dumbest comment I've read here. If we follow that logic: "Serral is so afraid that he never even entered a GSL. Atleast Maru showed up for the other tourneys." | ||
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goldensail
132 Posts
However, he is lucky in that: 1. he plays Zerg when Zerg is in an extraordinarily strong period 2. competition is dwindling 3. Maru is slowly but gradually wearing out I don't believe he would've had the same success playing Terran - he would've lagged behind Maru, Inno, Clem and likely a few others. | ||
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Comedy
456 Posts
On May 30 2024 03:26 goldensail wrote: I don't believe Serral wins because he's lucky. He wins because he's one of the best Zergs, possibly even the best Zerg ever if we value consistency over creativity. However, he is lucky in that: 1. he plays Zerg when Zerg is in an extraordinarily strong period 2. competition is dwindling 3. Maru is slowly but gradually wearing out I don't believe he would've had the same success playing Terran - he would've lagged behind Maru, Inno, Clem and likely a few others. It's just the most ridiculous thing I've read today. Saying that the best player in the world would be not even in the top5 if he played another race. The bias is just baffling. You actually deserve a ban for making such ridiculous statements but it won't happen. This is basically to a more or lesser extent the problem with every diehard fanboy in here (Charosair, this guy, poopi, the loki guy), they're all terran players and they're letting that cloud their judgement, it's sad to see. As for goldensail, If you honestly think Serral objectively isn't up there in skill with Maru, Inno, Clem and 'likely a few others', nothing you say can be taken serious period. You clearly don't know the game and you respect terran a lot more than anyone else because you play terran and you've convinced yourself it's the hardest race because you can't reach grandmaster. gg. If bait, wp. Edit : post history checks out, it's either die-hard maru fanboying, or balance whine about zerg being an OP a-move race. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1847 Posts
On May 30 2024 03:26 goldensail wrote: I don't believe Serral wins because he's lucky. He wins because he's one of the best Zergs, possibly even the best Zerg ever if we value consistency over creativity. However, he is lucky in that: 1. he plays Zerg when Zerg is in an extraordinarily strong period 2. competition is dwindling 3. Maru is slowly but gradually wearing out I don't believe he would've had the same success playing Terran - he would've lagged behind Maru, Inno, Clem and likely a few others. I always appreciate opinions with zero factual basis to them. | ||
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JJH777
United States4400 Posts
For 1 Zerg being strong from 2018-2022 is pretty obvious by basically every metric. For most of those years Zerg won the most events even if you subtract Serral's wins altogether. 2023 forward is less clear. For 2 competition is definitely less than it once was. We've gone from hundreds of full time pros to 20-30. Several KR pros outright state they practice less than in the past. Even with a rising skill level (which I find debatable) it's still easier to win events when there are only 30 other full time players around. For 3 Maru has said he considers himself worse post injury. I'll take his own opinion over the weird idea I've seen here and on SCreddit so much that people's skill at an activity never stops going up as long as they do it actively. The need to believe that Serral is an undisputable goat or that modern sc2 is the peak is so weird that people are ignoring how human skill at every other activity besides SC2 works. People plateau, have natural time frames where skill will wane, get injured, lose motivation, age and get slower etc and amy of those things can result in a declining skill level even if they are still participating in whatever activity it is. This applies to everything from sports, games, work, music, art, and more. Skill improvement isn't a linear thing even with consistent effort over a long time span. | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1847 Posts
On May 30 2024 05:07 JJH777 wrote: How do those have no factual basis? For 1 Zerg being strong from 2018-2022 is pretty obvious by basically every metric. For most of those years Zerg won the most events even if you subtract Serral's wins altogether. 2023 forward is less clear. For 2 competition is definitely less than it once was. We've gone from hundreds of full time pros to 20-30. Several KR pros outright state they practice less than in the past. Even with a rising skill level (which I find debatable) it's still easier to win events when there are only 30 other full time players around. For 3 Maru has said he considers himself worse post injury. I'll take his own opinion over the weird idea I've seen here and on SCreddit so much that people's skill at an activity never stops going up as long as they do it actively. The need to believe that Serral is an undisputable goat or that modern sc2 is the peak is so weird that people are ignoring how human skill at every other activity besides SC2 works. People plateau, have natural time frames where skill will wane, get injured, lose motivation, age and get slower etc and amy of those things can result in a declining skill level even if they are still participating in whatever activity it is. This applies to everything from sports, games, work, music, art, and more. Skill improvement isn't a linear thing even with consistent effort over a long time span. I've personally spoken to pro players who said Serral's mechanics are so good that it doesn't matter what race he plays. The entire reduction of players thing is sorely misunderstood and requires a lot more words than I care to expend. The important thing to ask yourself is this, "would Maru have won less events because Terminator or Trust or Hush or SkyHigh or the dozens of other irrelevant players who don't play anymore. Group A has the first and second best Terran player in the world. Group B has a multiple time world champion and a top 2 Protoss. That's kinda been business as usual for a decade. I don't need you to tell me about Maru's injury because you actually don't know anything about his actual condition. It's clear that Maru has had a number of injuries and, as a result, poor finishes. But, to address your lengthy diatribe, The whole "People plateau, have natural time frames where skill will wane, get injured, lose motivation, age and get slower etc and any of those things can result in a declining skill level even if they are still participating in whatever activity it is." Applies to Serral as well. He's had some lengthy periods where he didn't meet his standard. He has aged. The wear and tear that comes with Sc2 also applies to him. How do you know he's always super motivated the play? All of your stuff is conjecture because you can't quantify how much Maru's injuries impact him. You can't quantify the impact of all but the best Koreans retiring because the b-teamers couldn't afford to keep going. You also can't quantify the effect balance had on any player. Instead you can vaguely insinuate that these things are tree because they seem reasonable enough that most will believe them without examination. | ||
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