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Hey guys,
What do you think about a tournament where Bo5+ matches, each player had to choose at least a second race once.
And in Bo7+, the players would have to choose each of the 3 races at least once.
I would love to see a tournament where the full knowledge of the game could be gauged from the players.
And i guess that could minimize the weight of balance impact too.
(Like a team match, where the team has to put a minimum of players, to gauge which team is better, but the ace players still has an impact - ace player would be the best race of the solo mode)
What do you think?
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Sounds chaotic, lame and unserious in my opinion
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I want to watch players at their BEST. I don't want to watch Serral miss pylons, or Maru accidentally explode a bunch of banelings. I'd rather watch them do what they practiced for. And incentivizing players to practice their off-races more just diminishes the level of play overall.
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what the first post said, also why not just have a tourney and everyone has to pick random that makes a little more sense than what u said
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Sounds contrived honestly.
An off-race or all-random tournament would be sick though.
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Unless you offer over 10000 USD of prize pool, unlikely that you.would ever convince Serral to play Terran or ShowTime his zerg in a competitive tourney ...
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There have been some grass root all random tourneys in the past I think
E.: found one:  Don%27t Ask Don%27t Tell
Your Master of unorthodox tournaments, HyperOne / MrIronGolem, has you covered
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Northern Ireland26667 Posts
I think it’d be cool if you got a decent prize pool and players actually prepped for such a tournament. Maybe even just do a big group and Swiss format where players have to choose race ahead of times and play a third with each race. Or maybe just play 50/50 with only off-races alternatively.
You’d get an additional layer of mind games as few players have equally good off-races, so they’ll try and pick based for opponents’ races and trying to secure good matchups.
I think it’d be fun and show us who’s got the most rounded off-races overall. Whereas just an off race tournament shows us who’s merely got the strongest strong off-race
And a random tournament is fucked because SC2 has such optimised openings versus each race that you end up with kinda wonky games due to that lack of info. Perhaps a tournament where you get assigned a random race before your match could be good though!
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Hey don't steal my idea! 
I'm pretty sure most people won't take it seriously, so I think it would be fun if it's taken as a show match or a show tournament. I even found the perfect award for this balanced cup:
![[image loading]](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2800/3434/files/Vintage-Measurement-Scale-Balance-Balance-Scale-2862708_grande.jpg?v=1531853010)
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On March 09 2024 04:39 WombaT wrote:
I think it’d be cool if you got a decent prize pool and players actually prepped for such a tournament. Maybe even just do a big group and Swiss format where players have to choose race ahead of times and play a third with each race. Or maybe just play 50/50 with only off-races alternatively.
You’d get an additional layer of mind games as few players have equally good off-races, so they’ll try and pick based for opponents’ races and trying to secure good matchups.
I think it’d be fun and show us who’s got the most rounded off-races overall. Whereas just an off race tournament shows us who’s merely got the strongest strong off-race
And a random tournament is fucked because SC2 has such optimised openings versus each race that you end up with kinda wonky games due to that lack of info. Perhaps a tournament where you get assigned a random race before your match could be good though!
What a very sober comment! Nice, i agree with you!
That additional layer of mind game would be very interesting i think.
Imagine Maru vs Reynor... Mostly TvZ, but the tension on which map Maru and Reynor would go for their off races...
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I get the idea behind this concept, but the format might excessively favor those who play other races more frequently.
It might also encourage more cheese strats from those players who don't have much confidence playing the other roles.
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It is something that should be created even if only as one time event. I would go for Best of 5 series, and if you win, you have to switch the race.
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I'd like to see something similar, but have no idea how to make it work.
maybe if the ladder was originally built around the idea of encouraging random (as in all races, not the random option with hidden race on loading screen) play in some way, I don't know.
with that said, it would be nice to see a bo9 type match where the players would play all matchups.
maps could be determined one by one for each each matchup, by vetoing ABABABAB or ABBABABA whatever until one map left, they would play on the remaining, hopefully balanced map.
Anyways, I think there's some potential in the idea (not mine, the general idea),
it was really nice to see how Reynor plays protoss.
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I like the idea of testing players off races. Just have everyone play random.
We shouldn't do it in the big tournaments, but it'd be nice to try in one of the Homestory Cups where people get together and have fun, a couple thousand dollars in total prize pool, big enough so players do try but not big enough to make players salty when they didn't win.
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It's funny to see so many people think the idea is similar to playing random. No, it's very different.
Suppose you're playing a bo5 with your opponent. Your main is Z, your opponent's main is T. Both of you must play random.
First game you play PvT. Second game you play PvZ. Third game you play TvT. And you lose 0:3.
Is that fun? Is that balanced?
Luck is very important in random matches, and it doesn't alleviate the balance issue at all. But with my race-rotation format, your choice of map and race is part of the strategy, luck is hardly a factor. And it eliminates 99% of balance issue.
The only issue is, it tests your strength of all 3 races, which is probably too much to ask from the players. But maybe if StarCraft adopted this format in the very beginning, people would think this is the natural choice. And there would be almost zero balance whine.
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Absolutely. In sports, the players typically switch side to ensure fair games.
It would also allow for more fun and experimentation design wise without breaking competitive play. The issue of course is that ladder games cannot be boX - which could still be fine if you're guaranteed having a equal record of each position.
For sc2 the ship has sailed, but would have been nice to see such 'innovation' from the new RTSs
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On March 10 2024 17:43 teapot_ wrote:
Absolutely. In sports, the players typically switch side to ensure fair games.
It would also allow for more fun and experimentation design wise without breaking competitive play. The issue of course is that ladder games cannot be boX - which could still be fine if you're guaranteed having a equal record of each position.
For sc2 the ship has sailed, but would have been nice to see such 'innovation' from the new RTSs
I wouldn't particularly call that "innovation" when this is the premise for professional Age of Empires. But of course it becomes a very different thing when you get to choose between I believe 28 races in AoE2 by now compared to the Three you get in SC2.
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On March 10 2024 17:43 teapot_ wrote:
Absolutely. In sports, the players typically switch side to ensure fair games.
It would also allow for more fun and experimentation design wise without breaking competitive play. The issue of course is that ladder games cannot be boX - which could still be fine if you're guaranteed having a equal record of each position.
For sc2 the ship has sailed, but would have been nice to see such 'innovation' from the new RTSs
I dont think the ship has sailed...
One experimental tourney, and a lot of fun held can open ways
It can also attract new players
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On March 12 2024 01:16 Locutos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2024 17:43 teapot_ wrote:
Absolutely. In sports, the players typically switch side to ensure fair games.
It would also allow for more fun and experimentation design wise without breaking competitive play. The issue of course is that ladder games cannot be boX - which could still be fine if you're guaranteed having a equal record of each position.
For sc2 the ship has sailed, but would have been nice to see such 'innovation' from the new RTSs I dont think the ship has sailed... One experimental tourney, and a lot of fun held can open ways It can also attract new players
You can throw out 10000 dollars out of your own pocket for the prize money ? Because that's what the minimum would be, plus the how much it costs to organize such event, because nobody will reasonably throw out that much in the current landscape. For example (2v2 tourney but that also applies to the idea of total random) :
World Team League/2022/Winter/2v2 Tour
It still was NOT an open shop, because sponsors likely would have refused to throw out close to 10000 if it was. Post would also apply the the " Why are there no 4v4 tournaments? " topic too.
For a one-time novelty why not, but that won't last unless somebody regularly throws out sufficient money over a long period, and Microsoft won't do that anytime soon unless they have obscure plans, so that has to come from the community, good luck on that.
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EPT
