EPTSemi-standard Protoss Crying Post - Page 5
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JJH777
United States4420 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27339 Posts
On December 24 2023 06:37 JJH777 wrote: Trap's 6 premier wins and 3 GSL second places were mostly PvP and PvT based besides his 4:3 final wins over Reynor and Serral. It was probably nerves to some extent but I think it was mainly just a result of Protoss' in general struggles in big playoff bo5+ matches vs Zergs. If Toss had a 50% winrate in premier m PvZ ro8+/playoff matches from 2018-2022 Toss would be viewed as tied for the strongest race instead of the weakest. My memory of the chronology may be wrong, but I got the impression Trap worked damn hard to get his PvZ to the shape where he was winning versus those guys, but in doing so his previously stellar PvT slipped a bit to merely good. I think it was the GSL Cure won, but it was really an ideal bracket for Trap and I think he maybe takes that one if his PvT was at his peak level. Not super relevant to the topic but any chance to talk up Trap I’ll take! | ||
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Maksim2010
47 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27339 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
On December 24 2023 12:42 WombaT wrote: I enjoy Parting’s work but he’s not even been a top 3 Toss in forever, now I think of it maybe since WoL Yeah and the only other peak he had that i recall is like, he got to a Top 4 in GSL around 2020? When he was doing his blink micro/reads in PvT and killing terrans like Innov and Maru? But that's all... even Creator got to a grand finals... Parting is really cool to watch but he's below Hero/Trap/Classic/Stats, and with Creator's performance since 2022 I don't know if Parting is even above Creator now lol, probably the same tier. | ||
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THERIDDLER
Canada137 Posts
On December 24 2023 08:22 WombaT wrote: My memory of the chronology may be wrong, but I got the impression Trap worked damn hard to get his PvZ to the shape where he was winning versus those guys, but in doing so his previously stellar PvT slipped a bit to merely good. I think it was the GSL Cure won, but it was really an ideal bracket for Trap and I think he maybe takes that one if his PvT was at his peak level. Not super relevant to the topic but any chance to talk up Trap I’ll take! Yea trap worked so hard his record against rogue went from 0-15 in matches to 10-0 in matches right after the 4.12.0 patch (4 protoss buffs and 3 zerg nerfs) | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
This would be a way to make Gateway comps stronger and more versatile. The buff could give slightly more attack speed, or perhaps it could give +10 HP or Shield to Adepts. Something that would make Adepts more of a viable alternative unit to use for your comp, and give more ways to use it in the midgame and later. Seeing Astrea use Adept based Gateway comps (in addition to Colossus tech) vs Terran was really cool. Using Shade to make Tanks splash and kill their own marines, and if they unsiege then you can attack in, you could even time a 2nd Shade with the rest so that as soon as they unsiege you're already ontop. Making this kind of alternate style to play would be really cool. Since Terran has additional ways to push Protoss early on, I think it would be fitting if Protoss was given additional options too, especially since Terran pushes have gotten stronger since the Overcharge nerf and indirect buffs to Interference Matrix pushes. Buffing Glaive slightly and making Adept more usable in later stages of the game would also give Protoss a cheaper and more accessible and reactive way to deal with mass Crackling runbys into the lategame, without having to leave behind Archons/Colossus at home. Mass crackling seems to be a bit problematic vs Protoss right now, so this would address that. It shouldn't cause an issue in PvP either as we pretty much never see Adepts used in PvP, and Protoss has many ways to deal with Adepts. On December 24 2023 14:20 THERIDDLER wrote: Yea trap worked so hard his record against rogue went from 0-15 in matches to 10-0 in matches right after the 4.12.0 patch (4 protoss buffs and 3 zerg nerfs) Wait really? Wow that's insane. I remember Trap would beat Rogue sometimes and mainly attributed it to Rogue bustering sometimes as he does, but looking back, it's a pretty insane feat considering how strong Zerg was at the time, I guess Trap was actually just that good. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12533 Posts
On December 24 2023 14:20 THERIDDLER wrote: Yea trap worked so hard his record against rogue went from 0-15 in matches to 10-0 in matches right after the 4.12.0 patch (4 protoss buffs and 3 zerg nerfs) Damn, I guess balance matters | ||
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Swisslink
2956 Posts
For that to change, a balance patch or two won't be enough. Protoss would have to be reworked to an extend Blizzard hadn't even managed to achieve with the addons, even less would that be achievable with a simple patch. And with the current state of the game and the interest from Blizzard, it's hard to imagine that this is far beyond of what we can expect. | ||
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omop
46 Posts
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AxiomB
69 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27339 Posts
On December 26 2023 12:16 AxiomB wrote: I am more and more impressed with the people frequenting TL, these threads often devolve into balance muck. This has remained pretty civil and has not only Protoss players contributing and suggesting feasible changes (gate way trained units or more P favored maps or even complete reworks). Everyone who has commented here has a sincere interest in the game being in a more healthy state (for the professional level). Let us hope there is time, people and room to introduce positive changes. Yeah well said, beats some of the myopic whiny/angry discussions we get elsewhere | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On December 24 2023 10:37 Maksim2010 wrote: PARTING is back he show u how strong toss is. Outside of his early blink play, parting isn’t that impressive | ||
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Pentarp
227 Posts
Instead, Protoss needs tweaks to benefit from higher skill levels. Also, Protoss deathballs need to end. Deathballs are the antithesis to RTS; a deathball can be considered 1 giant hero unit. For example, collosi shouldn't be able to walk over other units; its a terrible design that promotes deathballs. Buffs can be given to compensate, but atleast now they will require more control - which will reward higher skill and punish lower skill. | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On December 27 2023 05:49 Pentarp wrote: My concern is the fact that Protoss was over-represented in the ESL qualifiers. So a buff to Protoss can hurt viewership with non-stop PvP like the ZvZs in BL/infestor and Swarmhost eras. Instead, Protoss needs tweaks to benefit from higher skill levels. Also, Protoss deathballs need to end. Deathballs are the antithesis to RTS; a deathball can be considered 1 giant hero unit. For example, collosi shouldn't be able to walk over other units; its a terrible design that promotes deathballs. Buffs can be given to compensate, but atleast now they will require more control - which will reward higher skill and punish lower skill. Colossi have already been nerfed into irrelevance. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On December 25 2023 18:15 omop wrote: They should by reverting all innecessary nerfs they have made to protoss. Like why immortal (or warp prism) cost was increased in the first place? Because Zergs were complaining they couldn’t handle the 2 base immortal all in attack. (Terran played a small part as well due to the proxy Robo immortal timing) We Protoss need our immortal timing build and proxy void shield battery build back. Because this current “meta”, Protoss has nothing to threaten Zerg/terran with | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27339 Posts
On December 28 2023 02:45 TossHeroes wrote: Because Zergs were complaining they couldn’t handle the 2 base immortal all in attack. (Terran played a small part as well due to the proxy Robo immortal timing) We Protoss need our immortal timing build and proxy void shield battery build back. Because this current “meta”, Protoss has nothing to threaten Zerg/terran with Something but not proxy Void/battery builds. Godawful to watch and play against | ||
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Ciaus237
South Africa288 Posts
On December 28 2023 02:45 TossHeroes wrote: Because Zergs were complaining they couldn’t handle the 2 base immortal all in attack. (Terran played a small part as well due to the proxy Robo immortal timing) We Protoss need our immortal timing build and proxy void shield battery build back. Because this current “meta”, Protoss has nothing to threaten Zerg/terran with Not too much if you are a top 20 player. However, ladder protoss, and in the lower rungs of the professional scene, still has plenty of early threat. And proxy voidray / immortal was the worst nonsense to play against, and severely detracted from the ladder experience. I don't ask for HotS swarmhost back, please don't ask for that proxy battery s***. | ||
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ScrappyRabbit
200 Posts
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