EPTNew SC2 Balance Test Mod (along with new map pool) - Page 2
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11814 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17582 Posts
feels like there are a few buffs that zerg doesn't need | ||
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Athenau
568 Posts
On August 23 2023 01:19 Die4Ever wrote: https://youtu.be/ULgpXr1zrg4 feels like there are a few buffs that zerg doesn't need Instructions unclear, buffing hydras. | ||
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JJH777
United States4373 Posts
On August 23 2023 00:44 Die4Ever wrote: I still kinda feel like baneling damage to buildings should maybe be nerfed slightly I would love that but I feel like they would use it as justification to reverse the health nerf which I think is the best baneling nerf. Though they are probably going to revert the health change before this goes live regardless. That would be the most drastic Zerg nerf in years and while I would love to see it I can't imagine it happening with how blatantly most of the community favors Zerg. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15829 Posts
On August 23 2023 01:07 Athenau wrote: A lot of the changes are good, and the baneling nerf is significant, but buffing Vipers is absurd and will just lead to Zergs building more of them and mass abducting units in the lategame (especially against T, since EMP was nerfed), which is one of the most cancerous things in the game. On the plus side, hellbats might be a viable soft counter to banelings now. Banelings will always four shot hellbats (whereas you needed armor upgrades for the hellbats before) and Hellbats will pretty much always two shot banelings with the health nerf. Pre-split hellbats will always be cost effective against banelings, and will still be cost effective against Zerglings even when split (unlike Marines). The Viper change is just a qol change, it changes nothing except preventing Zergs from accidentally killing their hatchery, which maybe happened once every 200 games | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
Why murder infestors so badly? Like I understand banes are overtuned, but seriously, killing fungal? Why? Why are all the protoss buffs to air of all things? Is another disruptor nerf needed? I get that HTs get stronger overall given the ghost nerfs, but I'd rather see mid-late game buffs for gateway / robo. Widowmines, which cost nothing and can instantly end the game, now become even more obnoxious in drop play. Cool. Great change. Definitely going in the right direction there  Cyclones being a core unit is cool, and the mothership is possibly more interesting (still a weird one-off but hey). But overall not feeling this one. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3309 Posts
And I really didn't expect a Mothership and Disruptor nerf, the Cabal is full of surprises! | ||
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Vision_
840 Posts
On August 23 2023 02:35 ejozl wrote: I'm really struggling to find anything that I like about this patch. I guess the Immortal Barrier functioning, it was always annoying that they don't tank the Disruptor shots. Also the Shields Upgrade buff, since that one has always been shite in SC2. It's different in SC1 because they keep generating Shields while taking damage and so everytime the unit takes damage and it has just 1 shield, its armour is substracting from the overall damage. And I really didn't expect a Mothership and Disruptor nerf, the Cabal is full of surprises! I don t know why people keep on trolling while the subject is cool and interesting | ||
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QOGQOG
817 Posts
I'm glad to see some more ambitious changes, though nerfing the Mothership's unused spells seem questionable. Wish they'd commit and just replace them with Arbiters. At least allow >1 being built so recalls aren't so easy to block. But if banelings are nerfed even a little I will be happy. I think Protoss is still going to struggle with this patch, but it might be a little better. | ||
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Athenau
568 Posts
On August 23 2023 01:50 Charoisaur wrote: The Viper change is just a qol change, it changes nothing except preventing Zergs from accidentally killing their hatchery, which maybe happened once every 200 games I agree that the consume change is mostly inconsequential, but the Viper was also indirectly buffed by ghosts being nerfed. It's just a terrible unit and anything that incentivizes Zergs to make more of them should be discouraged. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8907 Posts
the only thing that is going to suck is when we get these in the pro circuit but they never make it to ladder. e: Upon finalizing the map versions and the balance changes, we'll coordinate with our colleagues from Blizzard Entertainment about the best way and timeline to implement these changes to the game ^ it looks like they're going to work with blizz to implement these?? live game. | ||
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moonsjde
48 Posts
only change that sticks out as "huh?" to me is they're trying to make queen drops better? what in the world? who is begging for queen attacks to keep being a thing/become stronger? otherwise though just do all the changes and lets see what happens | ||
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moonsjde
48 Posts
On August 23 2023 01:50 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Kinda hate these changes. Why murder infestors so badly? Like I understand banes are overtuned, but seriously, killing fungal? Why? Why are all the protoss buffs to air of all things? Is another disruptor nerf needed? I get that HTs get stronger overall given the ghost nerfs, but I'd rather see mid-late game buffs for gateway / robo. Widowmines, which cost nothing and can instantly end the game, now become even more obnoxious in drop play. Cool. Great change. Definitely going in the right direction there Cyclones being a core unit is cool, and the mothership is possibly more interesting (still a weird one-off but hey). But overall not feeling this one. infestors are still fine if fungal isnt amazing, lol. neural is always relevant and the cloud ability is also decent situationally. a weakened fungal can still be used for zone control or ability combos if you're good, and you should have to play well for spellcasters to have a big impact - that's good design. even burrowed infestors for vision is still a solid lategame strat. its just most players are too lazily set in their ways to get good at this stuff id be fine if every single spellcaster in the game was mediocre unless you pull off really good plays with them. for example templars are pretty close to being like that now. they're important and have high potential but if you don't make good plays they won't turn the tide of the fight. discourages massing and shoves them more into a support role where they belong. balance everything else around it if you have to. spellcaster bullshit has been a drain on sc2 for almost the entire duration of the game | ||
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DarkGamer
Germany310 Posts
New maps are very welcome! | ||
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Metalmade
5 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8907 Posts
On August 23 2023 05:05 Metalmade wrote: I would have liked to see a +1 base armor buff for corruptors, since mass carrier is still a problem at the lower to mid levels especially in team games. i get the feeling that these changes are largely targetted at the higher end of 1v1 play | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
The EMP nerf is welcome, but Protoss splash damage has been further nerfed and there have been no buffs to the core army. +2 Banelings one shotting probes is welcome. Shield upgrades are pointless because nobody every gets +2 shields and this is not going to create some +2 shields timing. Air armor buffs are good in a vacuum, but when combined with Zerg air carapace buffs, it actually favors Zerg. In PvZ air it is Protoss attack and Zerg carapace that matter so Zerg got the buff and Protoss did not. Mothership was bad before but got a nerf. 10 seconds of cloak is not going to cut it. Void Ray and Tempests were already terrible and these buffs are not enough to suddenly make them playable. Immortal change is nice but really only helps against EMP which was already pretty weak against Immortals since they don't clump up that much and also have fairly low shields compared to hit points. Immortals getting EMPed is not the problem in PvT. Raven nerf is again welcome and an indirect buff to Protoss. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3090 Posts
It does feel like for the first time they are directly targeting some of the things that make Protoss not overall weak, but specifically *fragile* at the high levels--in particular, Ghost EMP totally shutting down Templar play, Raven pushes having the potential to insta-kill Robo tosses with a few interference matrixes, Baneling runbys one-shotting probes, and in general Toss in TvP becoming hyper-dependent on Disruptors as the game goes on. It's hard to say that these changes are exactly a Toss buff overall, but dealing with those issues is a pretty big deal imo. I'm a bit worried once again that the further Snipe nerfs combined with Brood Lord buffs and untouched Viper power will give Zerg too much power and cost-efficiency in TvZ late game, but the straight-up Baneling nerfs in the mid-game are a really big deal. I hope we don't go back to Terran having to end the game in the mid-game or be overwhelmed late-game; it's important that Terrans do have ways to grind out late-games. And just in general with these changes vipers are gonna be the king of SC2 spellcasters, and that could maybe be looked at. The cyclone and Mothership changes are the most wild-card, I have no idea how those are going to work out. But cyclones are fun units, so I'm down; and leaning into the Mothership's secondary utility role as a second recall timer is a smart idea. Still, good to see Alive Game! Thanks to ESL. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1782 Posts
On August 23 2023 04:11 BluemoonSC wrote: i am loving these changes. the only thing that is going to suck is when we get these in the pro circuit but they never make it to ladder. e: ^ it looks like they're going to work with blizz to implement these?? live game. Yeah, so umm Blizz still owns the StarCraft IP. Good luck making changes to their property without them. This is the same process that has been holding up team map contests. Blizzard would need to Q&A plus upload the maps and they don't want to pay someone to do so. | ||
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
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