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New SC2 Balance Test Mod (along with new map pool) - Page 3
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Die4Ever
United States17727 Posts
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yubo56
690 Posts
On August 23 2023 09:54 Die4Ever wrote: why does the infestor get to start with 75 energy for free but not the high templar? bring back SanZenith! the day I can warp in infestors we can start talking  I honestly like the direction of the patch! Lots of cool ideas, excited to see how they pan out in play testing :o | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
I find the viper change hilarious. god forbig that a unit with effectively unlimited energy has a trade off. And buffing hydras vs Protoss is madness. I know it's a ZvZ focused change, but Hydra timings have always been good vs toss, they became even better with the previous hydra buff, and now you want to make them even better? Hydra den is one of the fastest build time buildings, and hydra counters take a long time (storm you need to research, and wait for HT to have energy, and with timmings often times you run out of energy, colossus need robo and robo bay plus an upgrade that takes longer than they hydra one). And on top of that they nerf the disruptor, the other counter. It's crazy. I love the Tempest aceleration change. If they could change their damage point like they did to hydras, I think it would be a great change to help vs BL, Liberators and even BCs. I like the Mothership change, though not the cloak change. What good is it to be invisible for 10 seconds? What's the point? But I like the other changes. Same with the changes to stasis vision and sentry guardian shield. I LOVE the immortal change. Not a lot of people know this, but the barrier activates AFTER the first hit. So they receive the first hit in full. So a tank will do a LOT of damage to an immortal before the barrier is activated for example. This fixes that. However since it also counts agaisnt the "100 damaged absorbed"... I think they maybe should consider buffing it to 120 or something. Im surprised not to see the buff to the colossus range back...Would certainly be useful. So basically: I like the idea of the changes. The mothership and cyclone changes are interesting. Still, I fell Zerg comes out ahead with the better end of the deal, and Protoss with the worst. Although I'll say that the baneling nerf might be too much in ZvT but we'll see. I'm also worried about the medivac buff, and that the BL change will just make Terrans turtle more. ____________ Also, Please update team maps. Or at least let us play ones from previous seasons. I see you're considering it. It would be great. | ||
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omop
45 Posts
But in general I dont like this patch. Game feels quite good balanced and major shakeup isnt needed in my opinion. Cant really see the point of another cyclone rework, they are in good spot now. I feel that small adjustments would be enough, like baneling upgrade dmg nerf. They could also think about reverting some unneeded toss nerfs like Immortal and warp prism cost increases. | ||
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tigera6
3479 Posts
And the Widow Mine buff / Bane nerf is going to help Clem so much in TvZ, he loves both Mines micro and Bane snipe, now he might even target down 20 Banes before they can reach his army. | ||
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Creager
Germany1923 Posts
Well, let's wait and see before jumping to premature conclusions. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
Balance mods are available on all servers under the "Community Balance Patch - August 2023" name and via the following links AM - battlenet:://starcraft/map/1/352863 EU - battlenet:://starcraft/map/2/248793 AS - battlenet:://starcraft/map/3/165660 I went to Custom maps in SC2, searched for Community Balance Patch, and I see nothing. I tried to enter the link into my chrome URL bar, and nothing happened. If they want us to playtest these, I think the instructions need to be more dumby proof. | ||
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Creager
Germany1923 Posts
On August 23 2023 16:42 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: So this might be really dumb, but how do you play the Community Balance Mod? I went to Custom maps in SC2, searched for Community Balance Patch, and I see nothing. I tried to enter the link into my chrome URL bar, and nothing happened. If they want us to playtest these, I think the instructions need to be more dumby proof. If only somebody working at Blizzard still knew how to utilize this button... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/HMjlKmq.png) | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On August 23 2023 16:48 Creager wrote: If only somebody working at Blizzard still knew how to utilize this button... + Show Spoiler + Ok i figured it out ! You have to go to Custom, Melee, pick a map, then click "Create With Mod" at the bottom, and select Community Balance Patch - August 2023. It's so confusing because when I checked the new ladder maps, if you click on it and click on "Mod" on the right, it'll say there's no mod extensions available. Yet if you click "Create with Mod" it shows available mods. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
Makes me feel young again | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1200 Posts
If you wanted to adress the power of the matrix I think it would have been better to either lower its duration since the current duration for a fast moving RTS like Starcraft is too long OR you could have moved that upgrade to something like the armory or even fusion core if you really wanted to kill those timing / early game specifics. In my book the matrix is strong in TvT but I'm not sure if I would have named it issue there since it results in interesting engagements and play around the raven. And last but not least if they wanted to help Protoss I would have preferred to give the battery the ability "cleanse" which could be a slight AoE spell that removes negative abilities from units making it possible for you to cleanse your colossi against the matrix. I would make that a cooldown ability to not allow Protoss to mass batteries at later stages and buse that ability against anything. Thats just a quick brainstorm. TLDR: I dont think the 50/50/57 second upgrade changes anything about raven/matrix and their timings | ||
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__Coin_Ciden_Ce__
11 Posts
I have no interest in all these destructing changes to the more "aligned" datamod back in HotS and WoL, when people didn't struggle with some new and cool but painful micro in LotV. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16061 Posts
On August 23 2023 19:48 TaKeTV wrote: Does anyone here believe the Raven change actually does change anything? Its a 50/50 ~60 seconds upgrade. The timings of the raven both in TvT and in TvP hit later. Players that are using those timings now (especially TvT is rather 2 or 3 raven) will be using them after this patch too. If you wanted to adress the power of the matrix I think it would have been better to either lower its duration since the current duration for a fast moving RTS like Starcraft is too long OR you could have moved that upgrade to something like the armory or even fusion core if you really wanted to kill those timing / early game specifics. In my book the matrix is strong in TvT but I'm not sure if I would have named it issue there since it results in interesting engagements and play around the raven. And last but not least if they wanted to help Protoss I would have preferred to give the battery the ability "cleanse" which could be a slight AoE spell that removes negative abilities from units making it possible for you to cleanse your colossi against the matrix. I would make that a cooldown ability to not allow Protoss to mass batteries at later stages and buse that ability against anything. Thats just a quick brainstorm. TLDR: I dont think the 50/50/57 second upgrade changes anything about raven/matrix and their timings In TvP the change is huge because players usually swap the addon to a reactor after building the first Raven. With the patch you either have to idle the Starport for 23 seconds (Raven buildtime=34 seconds) before swapping if you want to finish the upgrade, or build a 2nd Raven. Both options significantly delay the first push with medivacs. In TvT this doesn't change much, that's true | ||
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tigera6
3479 Posts
On August 23 2023 19:48 TaKeTV wrote: Does anyone here believe the Raven change actually does change anything? Its a 50/50 ~60 seconds upgrade. The timings of the raven both in TvT and in TvP hit later. Players that are using those timings now (especially TvT is rather 2 or 3 raven) will be using them after this patch too. If you wanted to adress the power of the matrix I think it would have been better to either lower its duration since the current duration for a fast moving RTS like Starcraft is too long OR you could have moved that upgrade to something like the armory or even fusion core if you really wanted to kill those timing / early game specifics. In my book the matrix is strong in TvT but I'm not sure if I would have named it issue there since it results in interesting engagements and play around the raven. And last but not least if they wanted to help Protoss I would have preferred to give the battery the ability "cleanse" which could be a slight AoE spell that removes negative abilities from units making it possible for you to cleanse your colossi against the matrix. I would make that a cooldown ability to not allow Protoss to mass batteries at later stages and buse that ability against anything. Thats just a quick brainstorm. TLDR: I dont think the 50/50/57 second upgrade changes anything about raven/matrix and their timings Just think of it as a compensation for the buff on Raven build time and cost from previous balance change. Getting the Raven cheaper and quicker making the 1 Raven push timing in PvT too much into Terran favor. Now you have to delay the timing because of the research time and cost a bit more gas so it could theoretically help the Protoss defense against such timing. IMO, this is not about the overall Raven balance, just specifically the timing push in PvT. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1200 Posts
On August 23 2023 22:23 Charoisaur wrote: In TvP the change is huge because players usually swap the addon to a reactor after building the first Raven. With the patch you either have to idle the Starport for 23 seconds (Raven buildtime=34 seconds) before swapping if you want to finish the upgrade, or build a 2nd Raven. Both options significantly delay the first push. In TvT this doesn't change much, that's true I think stimpack should be the limiting factor here which will not be done at the time the raven is done. Yes it will delay the first two medivacs and their energy but it won't delay the push. At least from the top of my head the timing should be unchanged. Ill ask heromraine and see if I can get a replay. IIRC people often decide to even autoturret harass before actually still using the raven with that push so it should not be huge and still work the same imo Spoke with Clem 50/50 is meaningful in the early stage of the game timing should get messed up slighty / stim isnt done but its timed to finish with medivacs you want to use 2nd techlab for barracks you have to consider protoss not going for colossus so getting blind matrix isnt good He needs more games to evaluate so mea culpa. Seems like it does change a lot, great insight. I retract my statement :D | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
Ghost change is obvious, they are broken vs. Protoss. The snipe change could really alter late game ZvT though so that needs to be monitored. Mine change seems alright. Medivac change is ludicrous, needs to be scrapped immediately. Medivacs are premier units in every MU, no need or rational reason for them to be buffed. Raven change is very elegant, it will give Protoss some breathing room against Terran knife stab pushes that are dominating the mid game without affecting TvT or anything like that, balance council did a good job here. Lurker change is good, they are too mobile. Infestor change is very ambitious like the Cyclone changes are, this one needs to be tested because yea the damage is reduced but Infestors hitting the field immediately able to fungal (which is all for the root and bile combo it's hardly for the damage) is gonna be strong imo. Spire changes make sense., unlike the Viper changes which I doubt is even going to affect the pro level at all, kind of a dumb change. Ultra change is whatever, anything helps. Just change the Brood Lord to the Guardian and get it over with already. Hydra change is good, they are fun units to watch but yea the timing potential could be big, if Hydras are too strong with timings against Protoss they could stand to have less HP or do a tad less damage. Baneling change is huge, this is a pretty big nerf to Zerg is both ZvT and ZvP, people sleeping on this change are crazy, not saying Banelings weren't oppressive and in need of a tone down but wow, their relationship with bio and worker line run byes is going to be very altered but this change and those are cornerstone unit dyanmics. The immortal change is great but tbh the other Protoss changes are just pitiful. Really guys, a nerf? Like, you're actually going to nerf Protoss? Shield cost reduction? Guardian Shield lasting a few more seconds? More vision for wards? Really that's the best you guys can do? The other changes for Zerg and Terran seem good for the most part and some will indirectly be a buff to Protoss but I was hoping for some actual changes to Protoss, and I don't mean Warp Gate, I mean, just anything to give Protoss a straight up power boost. My proposal Sentry armor increased by 1 (make the Sentry more durable obviously) Guardian Shield reduces range damage from 2 to 4 (empowers them primarily vs. Terran bio, will hardly affect ZvP) Guardian Shield increases movement speed of all units by 35 % (Allows early/mid game GW armies to be more agile on the map) Force Field requires 2 Corrosive Biles to destroy Implement this change alone over all those other changes and watch the meta shift in a better direction for Protoss, it's easier to buff the Sentry which is just a support unit then core units like Zealots and Stalkers. Protoss lacks the ability to take control of the map and alot of that is because GW units are so damn slow, let the Sentry fix that issue, as well as empowering it against early/mid game bio pushes against Protoss. It's not like the Sentry will be killing anything, but it would let the actual combat units kill things better. | ||
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Snakestyle1
43 Posts
On August 22 2023 23:52 CicadaSC wrote: did the creep nerf from last patch even change anything or was it just disguised as a nerf. i remember pros saying there was no noticeable difference because no one is perfect with creep spreading anyway and then people just sort of ... dropped it. wasn't the nerf done with intention? if it had no impact it should be retuned, no? Of course it did. It might not be apparent if you dont play zerg, but if you check on your creep tumors and its 3 seconds away from being able to spread, you go do something else, and you certainly dont come back 3 seconds later to spread it when its ready. Everytime you go to spread your tumors and they arent quite ready to spread, it just had an impact on the creep spread. It doesnt matter if pros dont always spread as soon as cooldown is ready. What matters is that if you go to spread and its not ready, you wont check again in time. | ||
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AcrossFromTime
29 Posts
There's lots of ways they could have done it, personally I think reverting the Disruptor and Shield Battery nerfs would have been pretty good, plus maybe leave in the Colossus range bug. I don't think that would have resulted in Protoss dominance, but even if it did, Protoss has never had a dominant period during Legacy of the Void, so it wouldn't have been a problem if we could have a year for Protoss. SC2 isn't a dead game, but it's in a nursing home or hospice. It has many years ahead of it, and we should take good care of it as best we can so it can have pleasant stress-free golden years. Now's not the time to perform major surgery. It will never be what it was, and it will never reach it's full potential, but that's okay, nobody does. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26415 Posts
On August 23 2023 01:50 Charoisaur wrote: The Viper change is just a qol change, it changes nothing except preventing Zergs from accidentally killing their hatchery, which maybe happened once every 200 games I mean do Zergs really need that? They’ve already got the only caster in the game that you can grab mana quickly if they’re caught with their pants down, now that’s more forgiving to do and less damaging to buildings? Like Toss and Terran lose games so frequently to not having a wall at a bad moment, if Zergs kill their own buildings that’s a way bigger mistake and should be punished accordingly | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16061 Posts
Medivac change is ludicrous, needs to be scrapped immediately. Medivacs are premier units in every MU, no need or rational reason for them to be buffed. It's a fusion core upgrade, it will not have any effect at all. Especially in the lategame, medivacs running out of energy doesn't happen anymore, because at that stage the mass bio trading phase is already over, so this feels even more useless than the previous upgrade | ||
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