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ZeroByte13
142 Posts
When you've seen it last time, I wonder? It's possible in theory, on paper, in vacuum. But in real life this just doesn't work. Ultras are always supported by lings who hard counter cyclones. Maybe if hellions had a late game upgrade that would allow them to attack on the move... then battle mech would be more viable. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany14965 Posts
On February 01 2023 19:19 ZeroByte13 wrote: I'm not sure if I've ever seen Cyclons being a counter vs Ultras. When you've seen it last time, I wonder? It's possible in theory, on paper, in vacuum. But in real life this just doesn't work. Ultras are always supported by lings who hard counter cyclones. Maybe if hellions had a late game upgrade that would allow them to attack on the move... then battle mech would be more viable. Well, you've never seen it because going Ultras against Battle mech is like the stupidest thing you could ever do. | ||
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ZeroByte13
142 Posts
On February 01 2023 19:48 Charoisaur wrote: But also no one ever switches to battle mech when Ultras are out either.Well, you've never seen it because going Ultras against Battle mech is like the stupidest thing you could ever do. Ultras are late game tech, and nobody plays battle mech in the late game in last few years. My point was - ultras and cyclones almost never met, so Vision_'s point is moot. | ||
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Creager
Germany1690 Posts
On February 01 2023 19:19 ZeroByte13 wrote: I'm not sure if I've ever seen Cyclons being a counter vs Ultras. When you've seen it last time, I wonder? It's possible in theory, on paper, in vacuum. But in real life this just doesn't work. Ultras are always supported by lings who hard counter cyclones. Maybe if hellions had a late game upgrade that would allow them to attack on the move... then battle mech would be more viable. No, we do not want to head down the road of giving more and more units the ability to attack while moving for obvious reasons. | ||
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ZeroByte13
142 Posts
On February 01 2023 22:08 Creager wrote: I understand, but then battle mech remains unviable in late game.No, we do not want to head down the road of giving more and more units the ability to attack while moving for obvious reasons. It's how it was since forever, so maybe it's ok. | ||
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Moonerz
United States340 Posts
On February 01 2023 22:27 ZeroByte13 wrote: I understand, but then battle mech remains unviable in late game. It's how it was since forever, so maybe it's ok. Well I always thought Battle Mech was meant to be a way to get to a more traditional mech comp without just camping. Battle mech can win in the mid game by being efficient but if you could just battle mech the whole game it wouldnt be that different from bio | ||
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Creager
Germany1690 Posts
On February 01 2023 22:27 ZeroByte13 wrote: I understand, but then battle mech remains unviable in late game. It's how it was since forever, so maybe it's ok. What I always liked about Mech (mostly during WoL and HotS) was that it provided a completely different approach on how to play the game as Terran, and while the vast majority of people see it as a low-skill low-APM playstyle that promotes passiveness and turtling, which might be uninteresting to most, I've always seen it as a very methodical carefully executed strategical playstyle when you know what you're doing while making the game also more accessible for lower level players. While I can acknowledge the frustration having to play against mech, it's really a test of patience, endurance and strategical thinking for the opponent and I feel that for a lot of players this isn't necessarily how they want to play the game. I think most people prefer faster-paced action-packed back-and-forth games, so it's kinda always been a pretty strong contrast to what SC2 is usually about and this is what I've always admired about it. Also it's a little more resembling to how Terran plays in BW and... yeah I like the Siege Tank. A lot. Such a great unit! When battlemech became a thing with the addition of the Cyclone I at first I thought it was cool to have a more mobile strike force to kill Hatcheries and keep Zerg in check being active on the map, but ultimately I ended up not liking the style as it didn't fit into my personal definition of what mech should be about - deflect whatever the opponent might throw at you, slowly gain positional advantage and then basically just be as cost-efficient as possible and never get caught on the wrong foot. Battlemech just tried to kinda imitate Bio dynamic without being remotely as micro-intensive. Ultimately I guess the more variety we have in choosing unit compositions, the better, but just giving Hellions attack-while-moving wouldn't even make battlemech viable, as the Hellion itself is just so fragile and scales badly throughout the game that I'm not sure it would make a difference in a straight-up fight, which would inevitably happen at some point. | ||
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Vision_
580 Posts
- glings bane mutas ? - glings bane hydra ? - roach hydras ? - ultras + ..... ??? - broodlords + ... ? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany14965 Posts
On February 02 2023 05:01 Vision_ wrote: So what kind of Zerg army will you play (against mech with a dozen of mobile cyclone to constantly dps with a long range ?) - glings bane mutas ? - glings bane hydra ? - roach hydras ? - ultras + ..... ??? - broodlords + ... ? Ling Bane Ravager | ||
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Vision_
580 Posts
Against hellbat + cyclones + tank... I won t bet on your tactics I feel Hydralisks too much expensive to be considered as a good tier unit, and now cyclone get +50% damage against them... If the only unit able to catch cyclones are glings, i hope they got a training recently because they will have to run very very fast... | ||
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ZeroByte13
142 Posts
On February 02 2023 05:12 Vision_ wrote: Why do you think almost nobody uses cyclons past early and early mid game?Against hellbat + cyclones + tank... I won t bet on your tactics Ravager / ling / bane crush it. Lings easily catch up on cyclons and surrounds them, and cyclons are made of paper. As soon as they're surrounded they're as good as dead. And they cost quite a bit and require tech-labs, so not easy to replace. Again, when it was last time you've seen tanks / cyclons / hellbats vs Zerg on high level? Maybe I'm missing some cool games but I don't remember seeing anything like this in years. It reminds me of that one time when a guy was arguing a lot about SC2 balance, and how SC1 balance is so much better. Then he said that obviosly the main counter to ultras in SC2 are siege tanks, not ghosts / liberators. I asked him if he watched (or played above platinum) any SC2 in last few years and he said "well, no, but..."  | ||
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Athenau
474 Posts
Battlemech hasn't proven to be viable, or even good yet, but the preponderance of evidence suggests that it's _better_ than it was, and if Zergs find a way to shut it down, it's not going to be by massing ravagers. | ||
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StasisField
United States933 Posts
On February 02 2023 08:01 Athenau wrote: Heromarine was playing tank - hellion - cyclone in his games yesterday and ravager - ling - bane absolutely does not crush it. Battlemech hasn't proven to be viable, or even good yet, but the preponderance of evidence suggests that it's _better_ than it was, and if Zergs find a way to shut it down, it's not going to be by massing ravagers. One game isn't exactly a good sample size. Ling Bane Ravager has certainly crushed Battlemech in pro games pre-patch. We'll need to see more games to determine if that is still a viable composition. | ||
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ZeroByte13
142 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico1910 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3037 Posts
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Vision_
580 Posts
Could raven buff buildtime be a problem with auto turrets (against Protoss) ? I just saw HM smurf with an easy harassing play style. | ||
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tigera6
1918 Posts
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richardmunoz159
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Gene12Cardenas
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
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