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On January 03 2023 00:06 syndbg wrote:Since most terrans already cried their tears out how the patch is "the death of starcraft sc2, infuriating, ridiculous" (you know who you are), the latest 1.6 changes address further the state of TvZ. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/IiP7NeC.png)
Wow that's actually a pretty big change to Liberators, interested to see how it works out.
Just scrap the BL speed upgrade entirely, it's unnecessary. The Ultra changes are more then sufficient to improve Zerg late game diversity,
I'm also continuing to question the direction of this creep nerf. While creep undeniably needs to be nerfed, I'm not convinced that this CD increase is going to do anything useful. Maybe something along the lines of a Queen can only plant 1 active tumor at a time, that way 8 Queens cant just plop down 4 tumors a piece vs. planting just one.
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I dont think this would be a lategame change if thats the intention, Terran would now even try to 2-base all in harder with this. Now they can have 2-3 more Libs along with the Tanks and Bio. Btw, each Lib is nerfed right, yet their cost will stay the same?
Lategame wise, you never want to make too many Libs anyway, only a couple to zone out the Infestor. Mass libs and mass Viking are still weak against Viper/Infestor Combo if Ghost couldnt hit their EMP on target.
I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power. Its not a buff, just a trade-off to get more unit earlier but ultimately hurt them in longterm.
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On January 03 2023 00:37 tigera6 wrote:
I dont think this would be a lategame change if thats the intention, Terran would now even try to 2-base all in harder with this. Now they can have 2-3 more Libs along with the Tanks and Bio. Btw, each Lib is nerfed right, yet their cost will stay the same?
Lategame wise, you never want to make too many Libs anyway, only a couple to zone out the Infestor. Mass libs and mass Viking are still weak against Viper/Infestor Combo if Ghost couldnt hit their EMP on target.
I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power. Its not a buff, just a trade-off to get more unit earlier but ultimately hurt them in longterm.
"I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power."
I agree with this, I'm honestly confused as to the point of this change in the first place. Were Liberators over used? Under used? Were they oppressive in the meta in their current forum? Does the balance team think that Liberators should be cheaper and more plentiful but weaker to fill a role in Terran's arsenals?
Once again, probably the 5th time I've mentioned this in this thread, where is the balance council's thoughts on any of this? A little bit of transparency and open dialogue so we can at least know what they're attempting to accomplish would be nice.
Also that's a pretty decent change for Vikings, they had a pretty big damage point delay so I chalk that up to a good QoL change.
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On January 03 2023 00:06 syndbg wrote:
Since most terrans already cried their tears out how the patch is "the death of starcraft sc2, infuriating, ridiculous" (you know who you are), the latest 1.6 changes address further the state of TvZ.
And why do you think they are doing these changes? because people let their concerns be heard.
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On January 03 2023 00:53 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2023 00:37 tigera6 wrote:
I dont think this would be a lategame change if thats the intention, Terran would now even try to 2-base all in harder with this. Now they can have 2-3 more Libs along with the Tanks and Bio. Btw, each Lib is nerfed right, yet their cost will stay the same?
Lategame wise, you never want to make too many Libs anyway, only a couple to zone out the Infestor. Mass libs and mass Viking are still weak against Viper/Infestor Combo if Ghost couldnt hit their EMP on target.
I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power. Its not a buff, just a trade-off to get more unit earlier but ultimately hurt them in longterm. "I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power." I agree with this, I'm honestly confused as to the point of this change in the first place. Were Liberators over used? Under used? Were they oppressive in the meta in their current forum? Does the balance team think that Liberators should be cheaper and more plentiful but weaker to fill a role in Terran's arsenals? Once again, probably the 5th time I've mentioned this in this thread, where is the balance council's thoughts on any of this? A little bit of transparency and open dialogue so we can at least know what they're attempting to accomplish would be nice. Also that's a pretty decent change for Vikings, they had a pretty big damage point delay so I chalk that up to a good QoL change.
Vikings have good damage point, I think if something makes them feel sloppy its because all air units have this deceleration stat.
For the slicing power point, keep in mind Libs are 2 supply, so its not like Terran late game is just worse in every aspect. But yeah, I wouldn't wanna be Maru/Gumiho this patch. The funny thing is that I actually think Terran being stronger vs. Zerg late game, is way healthier than the other way round, simply because of how the dynamic of the matchup plays out. Instead of Zerg literally sitting back until the Terran dies, it becomes Zerg defends to gain an advantage that they then use to overrun the Terran before they then get the final advantage.
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On January 03 2023 00:37 tigera6 wrote:
I dont think this would be a lategame change if thats the intention, Terran would now even try to 2-base all in harder with this. Now they can have 2-3 more Libs along with the Tanks and Bio. Btw, each Lib is nerfed right, yet their cost will stay the same?
Lategame wise, you never want to make too many Libs anyway, only a couple to zone out the Infestor. Mass libs and mass Viking are still weak against Viper/Infestor Combo if Ghost couldnt hit their EMP on target.
I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power. Its not a buff, just a trade-off to get more unit earlier but ultimately hurt them in longterm.
This is a lategame buff in TvZ because Liberators are more supply efficient. Liberators overkill a lot. Now you can get 50% more liberators, but they still one shot lings and banes, and two shot hydras. In terms of raw dps per supply, it's also a small improvement because upgrades cap out at +5 damage per upgrade, so the relative benefit is higher with a base of 50 damage then it is with a base of 75.
Unit Shots To Kill (old / new / old + 3 / new + 3)
Zergling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Baneling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Queen 4 / 3 / 3 / 3
Roach 2 / 3 / 2 / 3
Ravager 3 / 2 / 2 / 2
Hydralisk 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Infestor 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Ultralisk* 11 / 7 / 9 / 7
* No upgrade numbers are without chitinous, +3 are with chitinous
Better supply efficiency is a lategame-only buff, so I don't think it's accurate to say that trading cost efficiency for supply efficiency benefits the early game at the cost of lategame.
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On January 03 2023 01:27 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2023 00:37 tigera6 wrote:
I dont think this would be a lategame change if thats the intention, Terran would now even try to 2-base all in harder with this. Now they can have 2-3 more Libs along with the Tanks and Bio. Btw, each Lib is nerfed right, yet their cost will stay the same?
Lategame wise, you never want to make too many Libs anyway, only a couple to zone out the Infestor. Mass libs and mass Viking are still weak against Viper/Infestor Combo if Ghost couldnt hit their EMP on target.
I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power. Its not a buff, just a trade-off to get more unit earlier but ultimately hurt them in longterm. This is a lategame buff in TvZ because Liberators are more supply efficient. Liberators overkill a lot. Now you can get 50% more liberators, but they still one shot lings and banes, and two shot hydras. In terms of raw dps per supply, it's also a small improvement because upgrades cap out at +5 damage per upgrade, so the relative benefit is higher with a base of 50 damage then it is with a base of 75.
Unit Shots To Kill (old / new / old + 3 / new + 3)
Zergling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Baneling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Queen 4 / 3 / 3 / 3
Roach 2 / 3 / 2 / 3
Ravager 3 / 2 / 2 / 2
Hydralisk 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Infestor 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Ultralisk* 11 / 7 / 9 / 7
* No upgrade numbers are without chitinous, +3 are with chitinous
Better supply efficiency is a lategame-only buff, so I don't think it's accurate to say that trading cost efficiency for supply efficiency benefits the early game at the cost of lategame.
The thing is, you dont expect Zerg to walk their entire ground army underneath 10-15 Libs Seige in late game. The math seems fine, but the actual gameplay isnt that way.
Like what is really the threat to Libs in late game? Mass Hydra? Queen? Ravager? No. Its Viper/Infestor combo. So by making Libs weaker individually and allow them to get higher in mass, it doesnt change anything in lategame vs Broodlord/Infestor/Viper combo.
Thats why I said this change will make Terran to do all-in even more because the benefit of the change is much more impactful in early/mid-game.
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On January 03 2023 01:44 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2023 01:27 Athenau wrote:On January 03 2023 00:37 tigera6 wrote:
I dont think this would be a lategame change if thats the intention, Terran would now even try to 2-base all in harder with this. Now they can have 2-3 more Libs along with the Tanks and Bio. Btw, each Lib is nerfed right, yet their cost will stay the same?
Lategame wise, you never want to make too many Libs anyway, only a couple to zone out the Infestor. Mass libs and mass Viking are still weak against Viper/Infestor Combo if Ghost couldnt hit their EMP on target.
I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power. Its not a buff, just a trade-off to get more unit earlier but ultimately hurt them in longterm. This is a lategame buff in TvZ because Liberators are more supply efficient. Liberators overkill a lot. Now you can get 50% more liberators, but they still one shot lings and banes, and two shot hydras. In terms of raw dps per supply, it's also a small improvement because upgrades cap out at +5 damage per upgrade, so the relative benefit is higher with a base of 50 damage then it is with a base of 75.
Unit Shots To Kill (old / new / old + 3 / new + 3)
Zergling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Baneling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Queen 4 / 3 / 3 / 3
Roach 2 / 3 / 2 / 3
Ravager 3 / 2 / 2 / 2
Hydralisk 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Infestor 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Ultralisk* 11 / 7 / 9 / 7
* No upgrade numbers are without chitinous, +3 are with chitinous
Better supply efficiency is a lategame-only buff, so I don't think it's accurate to say that trading cost efficiency for supply efficiency benefits the early game at the cost of lategame. The thing is, you dont expect Zerg to walk their entire ground army underneath 10-15 Libs Seige in late game. The math seems fine, but the actual gameplay isnt that way. Like what is really the threat to Libs in late game? Mass Hydra? Queen? Ravager? No. Its Viper/Infestor combo. So by making Libs weaker individually and allow them to get higher in mass, it doesnt change anything in lategame vs Broodlord/Infestor/Viper combo. Thats why I said this change will make Terran to do all-in even more because the benefit of the change is much more impactful in early/mid-game.
It's a moot point now since they reverted the change and replaced it with a cost reduction to 150/125: https://rentry.co/uz75f
(the in-game patch notes point to that site for a cumulative changelog).
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On January 03 2023 02:29 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2023 01:44 tigera6 wrote:On January 03 2023 01:27 Athenau wrote:On January 03 2023 00:37 tigera6 wrote:
I dont think this would be a lategame change if thats the intention, Terran would now even try to 2-base all in harder with this. Now they can have 2-3 more Libs along with the Tanks and Bio. Btw, each Lib is nerfed right, yet their cost will stay the same?
Lategame wise, you never want to make too many Libs anyway, only a couple to zone out the Infestor. Mass libs and mass Viking are still weak against Viper/Infestor Combo if Ghost couldnt hit their EMP on target.
I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power. Its not a buff, just a trade-off to get more unit earlier but ultimately hurt them in longterm. This is a lategame buff in TvZ because Liberators are more supply efficient. Liberators overkill a lot. Now you can get 50% more liberators, but they still one shot lings and banes, and two shot hydras. In terms of raw dps per supply, it's also a small improvement because upgrades cap out at +5 damage per upgrade, so the relative benefit is higher with a base of 50 damage then it is with a base of 75.
Unit Shots To Kill (old / new / old + 3 / new + 3)
Zergling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Baneling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Queen 4 / 3 / 3 / 3
Roach 2 / 3 / 2 / 3
Ravager 3 / 2 / 2 / 2
Hydralisk 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Infestor 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Ultralisk* 11 / 7 / 9 / 7
* No upgrade numbers are without chitinous, +3 are with chitinous
Better supply efficiency is a lategame-only buff, so I don't think it's accurate to say that trading cost efficiency for supply efficiency benefits the early game at the cost of lategame. The thing is, you dont expect Zerg to walk their entire ground army underneath 10-15 Libs Seige in late game. The math seems fine, but the actual gameplay isnt that way. Like what is really the threat to Libs in late game? Mass Hydra? Queen? Ravager? No. Its Viper/Infestor combo. So by making Libs weaker individually and allow them to get higher in mass, it doesnt change anything in lategame vs Broodlord/Infestor/Viper combo. Thats why I said this change will make Terran to do all-in even more because the benefit of the change is much more impactful in early/mid-game. It's a moot point now since they reverted the change and replaced it with a cost reduction to 150/125: https://rentry.co/uz75f(the in-game patch notes point to that site for a cumulative changelog).
Hmm, less gas is always a net buff so I mean, could be worse?
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On January 03 2023 03:15 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2023 02:29 Athenau wrote:On January 03 2023 01:44 tigera6 wrote:On January 03 2023 01:27 Athenau wrote:On January 03 2023 00:37 tigera6 wrote:
I dont think this would be a lategame change if thats the intention, Terran would now even try to 2-base all in harder with this. Now they can have 2-3 more Libs along with the Tanks and Bio. Btw, each Lib is nerfed right, yet their cost will stay the same?
Lategame wise, you never want to make too many Libs anyway, only a couple to zone out the Infestor. Mass libs and mass Viking are still weak against Viper/Infestor Combo if Ghost couldnt hit their EMP on target.
I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power. Its not a buff, just a trade-off to get more unit earlier but ultimately hurt them in longterm. This is a lategame buff in TvZ because Liberators are more supply efficient. Liberators overkill a lot. Now you can get 50% more liberators, but they still one shot lings and banes, and two shot hydras. In terms of raw dps per supply, it's also a small improvement because upgrades cap out at +5 damage per upgrade, so the relative benefit is higher with a base of 50 damage then it is with a base of 75.
Unit Shots To Kill (old / new / old + 3 / new + 3)
Zergling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Baneling 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
Queen 4 / 3 / 3 / 3
Roach 2 / 3 / 2 / 3
Ravager 3 / 2 / 2 / 2
Hydralisk 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Infestor 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
Ultralisk* 11 / 7 / 9 / 7
* No upgrade numbers are without chitinous, +3 are with chitinous
Better supply efficiency is a lategame-only buff, so I don't think it's accurate to say that trading cost efficiency for supply efficiency benefits the early game at the cost of lategame. The thing is, you dont expect Zerg to walk their entire ground army underneath 10-15 Libs Seige in late game. The math seems fine, but the actual gameplay isnt that way. Like what is really the threat to Libs in late game? Mass Hydra? Queen? Ravager? No. Its Viper/Infestor combo. So by making Libs weaker individually and allow them to get higher in mass, it doesnt change anything in lategame vs Broodlord/Infestor/Viper combo. Thats why I said this change will make Terran to do all-in even more because the benefit of the change is much more impactful in early/mid-game. It's a moot point now since they reverted the change and replaced it with a cost reduction to 150/125: https://rentry.co/uz75f(the in-game patch notes point to that site for a cumulative changelog). Hmm, less gas is always a net buff so I mean, could be worse?
Well, this is like a buff for the sake of having one imo. Its not game changing, but something nice to have. The most impact this would have ,I believe, would be on TvP though, having cheaper Libs would give Terran more power against those Robo build from Protoss.
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Slightly more microable vikings and a slightly cheaper lib don't even come close to making up for the ruined ghost. T is still doomed lategame. They need to either do a complete rework of Terrans lategame reliance on ghost or just revert the nerf or a least make it a lot less extreme. If it canceled at 15 range instead of 13.5 that wouldn't be as big of a deal but would still give Zerg some retreating potential.
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Eeh I think the Liberator change will mainly have an impact on TvP where Protoss will probably be struggling already with the Disruptor and shield battery nerf.
Better than the other suggested change though and apparently they made Auto-Turrets 50 energy again but weaker, which I like.
Somehow there's still no change that seriously helps the other races against Zerg and I don't think that's a coincidence.
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On January 03 2023 01:12 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2023 00:53 Beelzebub1 wrote:On January 03 2023 00:37 tigera6 wrote:
I dont think this would be a lategame change if thats the intention, Terran would now even try to 2-base all in harder with this. Now they can have 2-3 more Libs along with the Tanks and Bio. Btw, each Lib is nerfed right, yet their cost will stay the same?
Lategame wise, you never want to make too many Libs anyway, only a couple to zone out the Infestor. Mass libs and mass Viking are still weak against Viper/Infestor Combo if Ghost couldnt hit their EMP on target.
I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power. Its not a buff, just a trade-off to get more unit earlier but ultimately hurt them in longterm. "I just dont like the trend of balancing Terran unit by making them cheaper/less supply/quicker to build and slicing their power." I agree with this, I'm honestly confused as to the point of this change in the first place. Were Liberators over used? Under used? Were they oppressive in the meta in their current forum? Does the balance team think that Liberators should be cheaper and more plentiful but weaker to fill a role in Terran's arsenals? Once again, probably the 5th time I've mentioned this in this thread, where is the balance council's thoughts on any of this? A little bit of transparency and open dialogue so we can at least know what they're attempting to accomplish would be nice. Also that's a pretty decent change for Vikings, they had a pretty big damage point delay so I chalk that up to a good QoL change. Vikings have good damage point, I think if something makes them feel sloppy its because all air units have this deceleration stat. For the slicing power point, keep in mind Libs are 2 supply, so its not like Terran late game is just worse in every aspect. But yeah, I wouldn't wanna be Maru/Gumiho this patch. The funny thing is that I actually think Terran being stronger vs. Zerg late game, is way healthier than the other way round, simply because of how the dynamic of the matchup plays out. Instead of Zerg literally sitting back until the Terran dies, it becomes Zerg defends to gain an advantage that they then use to overrun the Terran before they then get the final advantage.
It's primarily the damage-point that matters. This damage-point will make it much better at kiting vs especially Corruptors and and Void Rays.
I also think it will help a lot with dodging Fungals late game vs zerg.
(in general most damage point should by default be 0 and the game balanced around that. It simply makes the micro feel a lot more enjoyable)
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On January 03 2023 05:42 Charoisaur wrote:apparently they made Auto-Turrets 50 energy again but weaker, which I like. Auto Turret duration reduced from 10.0 to 7.8 seconds
Auto Turret health reduced from 150 to 100
Auto Turret armor reduced from 1 to 0
Auto Turret is no longer affected by Neosteel Armor
So it's only about 60% as durable as it was and will do 4 shots fewer.
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On January 03 2023 05:42 Charoisaur wrote:
Eeh I think the Liberator change will mainly have an impact on TvP where Protoss will probably be struggling already with the Disruptor and shield battery nerf.
Better than the other suggested change though and apparently they made Auto-Turrets 50 energy again but weaker, which I like.
Somehow there's still no change that seriously helps the other races against Zerg and I don't think that's a coincidence.
Do either of the races need "serious" help against Zerg?
2022 Premier Tournament Results - 4P 4Z 2T
Aligulac Dec 2022
TvZ = 50.82
PvZ = 51.06
Do you have anything to back up this notion or is this just your opinion? I'm open to numbers that support your argument.
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On January 03 2023 07:07 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2023 05:42 Charoisaur wrote:
Eeh I think the Liberator change will mainly have an impact on TvP where Protoss will probably be struggling already with the Disruptor and shield battery nerf.
Better than the other suggested change though and apparently they made Auto-Turrets 50 energy again but weaker, which I like.
Somehow there's still no change that seriously helps the other races against Zerg and I don't think that's a coincidence. Do either of the races need "serious" help against Zerg? 2022 Premier Tournament Results - 4P 4Z 2T Aligulac Dec 2022 TvZ = 50.82 PvZ = 51.06 Do you have anything to back up this notion or is this just your opinion? I'm open to numbers that support your argument.
Where are you getting those Premier tournament results? Zergs have won 7/14 Premiers this year:
 Premier Tournaments
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On January 03 2023 07:07 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2023 05:42 Charoisaur wrote:
Eeh I think the Liberator change will mainly have an impact on TvP where Protoss will probably be struggling already with the Disruptor and shield battery nerf.
Better than the other suggested change though and apparently they made Auto-Turrets 50 energy again but weaker, which I like.
Somehow there's still no change that seriously helps the other races against Zerg and I don't think that's a coincidence. Do either of the races need "serious" help against Zerg? 2022 Premier Tournament Results - 4P 4Z 2T Aligulac Dec 2022 TvZ = 50.82 PvZ = 51.06 Do you have anything to back up this notion or is this just your opinion? I'm open to numbers that support your argument.
What tournaments are you using? Just going off liquipedia premiers for 2022 I see 7Z, 4T, 3P for each race wins. In addition to having the most championships Zerg also has the most 2nd places. I would also argue that tournaments like KoB and Afreeca Championship Cup deserve premier status more than WCS EU and were both won by Zerg. That brings it up to 9Z, 4T, 3P.
I would also note that T/P will perform much worse with nerfed ghosts and Carriers/disruptors so from the perspective of the patch they definitely need some serious help unless those nerfs are reverted.
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The Carrier interceptor shield nerf was reverted, so that's something I suppose.
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On January 03 2023 06:32 ZeroByte13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2023 05:42 Charoisaur wrote:apparently they made Auto-Turrets 50 energy again but weaker, which I like. Auto Turret duration reduced from 10.0 to 7.8 seconds Auto Turret health reduced from 150 to 100 Auto Turret armor reduced from 1 to 0 Auto Turret is no longer affected by Neosteel Armor So it's only about 60% as durable as it was and will do 4 shots fewer.
So I'm really glad to find that they're still trying lots of changes, and that this proposed patch isn't like the same ones when Blizzard still had a full balance team, where they were pretty much set in stone. This looks a lot more experimental which is great! And Katowice is a bit away, so they have time to try lots of things.
And I'm really glad to see them listening and pushing certain nerfs a little more (creep tumor cd), and pulling back slightly on others like BL speed (could be pulled back to 2.1 or so but at least it's less now).
I'm glad they didn't go through with that Lib change, it'd be weird to be a big unit like that and only 2 supply. Having strong burst is also important to the unit's identity as a zoning unit. The initial attack is important for zoning.
But this Auto Turret nerf... oof. It's overkill. All they had to do was reduce the damage from 18 to like, 10 or 12. Which would bring it back to its original identity from WoL/HotS, where it was not this scrappy turret with really high DPS, but rather this turret that could be used as a wall and did low DPS, and lasted long and could be used positionally.
Actually, I'm really confused why they nerfed the durability and duration of it instead of the DPS.
With the initial proposed Raven, it would take about the same time to get 150 energy to drop 2 75 energy turrets in the opponent's base as it would take the current Raven to get 100 energy to drop 2 50 energy turrets. So the timing and strength is about the same.
But with this new Auto Turret... you will now have enough energy to drop 2 turrets much earlier, and pose a bigger threat to their workers, and can be used in early pushes where the DPS is more important than the durability.
Is this what they intended? I never liked how Terran has so many redundant harass options (liberator, WM, autoturrett harass all fall under "you didn't look/react in 2 seconds, now you lost several workers". It's not interesting or fun. Why does all harass have to be about killing workers? A more durable, longer lasting turret that deals less DPS would give the opponent more of an option to try to kill the turrets, or wait it out and just lose out on some mining time. With the new proposed turret, it's even more of a glass canon and paired with the cheaper earlier Ravens it's even more of a "you didn't look for a couple seconds, now you lost 5 workers" thing.
Are they really that afraid of mass turrets in lategame? It's not at all a problem, let mech players and raven users have their fun. 8 seconds is such a short time for a "turret". It can barely be used positionally as static defense on the go, it's more like an infested terran on crack, ever more than before.
Keep the auto turret as is with 50 energy, keep the durability the same, and nerf the damage from 18 to 12 and be done with it. Why are you nerfing both the durability and the duration? Nerfing just the duration, or the damage, or the durability would make sense and keep things proportional to the cheaper and earlier Raven.
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They actually completely removed the Corvid Reactor upgrade and effect without increasing the initial energy, making its less useful for early harassments role when coupled with the nerf on Auto Turret. But the Interference Matrix got unchanged is correct, because they was increased from 8sec to 11sec with 50 to 75EN cast.
Also noted is that Obs model size increase got rolled back into 10% only, and Sentry also has a slight increase in speed.
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EPT
