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On December 11 2022 07:35 Ahli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2022 06:47 hjpalpha wrote:On December 11 2022 06:45 Ahli wrote:On December 11 2022 06:26 Creager wrote:On December 11 2022 02:03 Ahli wrote:Does anyone have female Ghost skin on the PTR and can check if they have a snipe ability and a cancel button for it? I suspect that it is broken when looking at the data. It is also broken for Nova then. The existing cancel button does not reference the snipe ability. It references a non-existing ability command called BypassArmorCancel Would be cool if people tested more potentially broken stuff: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/604131-balance-patch-5011-ptr-patch-notes?page=7#138e.g. other observer and Ultralisk skins potentially not receiving the correct model size (besides the default skin) Else, have fun with a broken update  Very interesting, did some testing with the collector's edition skin for the Ultralisk and looks like you're right, the size reduction doesn't seem to be applied for it: + Show Spoiler + Thank you very much! I've added it to my findings and credited you for verifying it <3 https://github.com/Ahli/sc2xml/pull/1On December 11 2022 06:28 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Wow, this is.... not good. Fixing this is not difficult (easiest could be moving the changes to the parent instance and check if all skins inherit this correctly). This just shows that the person doing these changes is not an editor god with years of SC2 editor experience and potentially only has little time to do this. We should assist as well as we can i know you only want to help and that you invested some time into this that the (im)balance council already should have but maybe it would be good if they first revert all changes and do reasonable changes that do not utterly break the balance I doubt the balance council knows about all changes in this patch. The balance council and I have different objectives. I do not care about balance that much as I do not play the game. Balance is for other people to decide. I only care about preventing bugs as I want to enjoy watching SC2 and not see it break apart like WC3. So, I want to assist with my years of SC2 editor experience. Whoever edits the game at Blizz should fix the bugs or remove undesired changes. The fact that we have so many undocumented changes in this update is more concerning than any imbalance right now. Most undocumented changes benefit Zerg as well. If I wouldn't check these, most bugs would probably surface some time after the update was released when Blizz probably has no more resources for a hotfix. The developer will most likely switch to WC3 which is a bit of a mess for weeks due to some one liner bug with a cache from what I have heard, or do something for Heroes as that was left on its own for an eternity. This is the state this game will likely remain at when the patch hits. If we do not invest the time now, the community will suffer because things are not fixed. So, laying back and saying that the balance is bad won't fix it. There are always voices like yours since everyone has their own opinion. Thus, single opinions will not prevent the patch from being released unless you have the gravitas of being a pro player. So, I believe that laying back and doing nothing is exactly the wrong thing to do unless you want to damage the game Also, I've spend 20 hours since yesterday evening on this because I like this. The passion for this game, the engine and discovering the issues and bugs drove me to do this. Who are you to tell me to not do what I seem to be born to do? 
Really good job!
I am not sure how to connect the dots between your experience, the community balance team and adopting a sustainable development workflow.
Have you tried contacting any of the pros and getting in touch with the group?
I am doing a small effort to get your github repo across.
Few things that IMO can be improved at the moment:
* having a README.md with steps/guidelines how you developed this.
* e.g how the editor XMLs were dumped
* e.g how your changes can be applied/imported..?
P.S I have no experience with the sc2 editor, just xp in SWE engineering and developing/managing products.
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On December 11 2022 08:19 syndbg wrote:
Have you tried contacting any of the pros and getting in touch with the group?
I am doing a small effort to get your github repo across.
I started looking into this when the PTR dropped. I am only interested in fixing bugs of their desired changes or consult in what to change to have certain aspects changed. Someone else can engineer good values or an initial dirty change for testing. I prefer to spend my time improving my extension mod and creating new features for observer UIs. My time is limited due to work. Since Heroes has basically 0 development, I have time for SC2 again :D
I only have indirect contacts with people that create tournaments since I am modifying observer UIs and extension mod
On December 11 2022 08:19 syndbg wrote:
Few things that IMO can be improved at the moment:
* having a README.md with steps/guidelines how you developed this.
* e.g how the editor XMLs were dumped
* e.g how your changes can be applied/imported..?
P.S I have no experience with the sc2 editor, just xp in SWE engineering and developing/managing products.
My repo was not intended for development. But I will add some info how I exported the data (wrote my own tool for that purpose for Heroes of the Storm UI development :D ).
I did not create any of the changes on that repo. I merely dumbed the current patch and added a PR with the dumb of the PTR. The PR just reveals the changes in a nice UI allowing me to add notes to the changes.
First, you need to understand how the game applies changes. There are multiple layers of xml files that define and change data. You start with a core, add Liberty, Swarm, Void and VoidMultiplayer. Finally your mod/map changes are added to that. So, your changes in the mod often reference indexes, add an attribute to remove an entry, etc.
Developing changes for the game's archive is a 2 step process:
1. you add changes to an extension mod or a map to test them quickly without much effort
2. changes that you are confident to be put into the official game archive need to be adapted due to the layers I mentioned. Only Blizzard has that use case of merging changes into a single layer. I assume that you cannot blindly copy paste changes over at the end of the file and hope the editor converts it. Things like Actor events will most certainly break. But maybe that actually works since Blizzard is very likely doing this for every patch. But their changes sometimes look hand-crafted, so I am not certain.
I doubt they rebuild the game archives to engineer early balance changes. Doing quick iterations in a mod file is way faster and leaner. You just have to live with the overhead of converting the changes later on and verifying that the end result is the same.
On December 11 2022 08:19 syndbg wrote:
I am not sure how to connect the dots between your experience, the community balance team and adopting a sustainable development workflow.
...
P.S I have no experience with the sc2 editor, just xp in SWE engineering and developing/managing products.
I am a software engineer and work in the consulting business. As a hobby I modified SCBW, SC2 and Heroes of the Storm for 15-20 years now. In 2012 I became a big part of the GameHeart project (I maintained the obs interface; my name is on the WCS GameHeart extension mod) which changed how SC2 is viewed to this day. In the mean time I implemented Diablo 1 in the SC2 Arcade and since 2015 I develop observer UIs for Heroes of the Storm (which uses pretty much the same engine). Doing that, Blizzard hired me to implement the default observer UI of that game as well. Blizzard made me a "community commander" in 2014 and invited me to Versailles, most likely due to GameHeart and my activity in several forums concerning the editor at that time. I kind of retired in 2017 to finish my masters degree and now I only do UI things and now the extension mod.
TLDR: I was really good at the editor, I am the guy that coded your in-game e-sport goodies and casters, observers, and tournament organizers might know who I am. Usually, I do not know people in SC2, but people know me
May I ask what your role is in this, if you have the connections?
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On December 11 2022 03:02 syndbg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2022 01:06 [Phantom] wrote:
This is one of the most INFURIATING patches I've ever seen.
Seriously what is wrong with Blizzard?
You're buffing Zerg? REALLY?
Buffing Ultras? Nerginf Disruptors? Increasing obs size model? NERFING BATTERIES?
The creep nerfs are ridiculous as well.
I feel literally disgusted. I'm not kidding I'm literally disgusted.
Buffed Hydras?
REALLY? After the fast hydras broke the game previousl¿y?
NERFED ORACLE?
Stasis Ward
Attack target priority increased from 10 to 20.
What are you doing?
}And the worst:
CARRIERS MADE USELESS Nerfed interceptors health, made carriers more likely to be targetted,and nerfing interceptors damage!!!!! (Bigger radius means interceptors will atack less as they need to get close to the unit to atack).Might as well remove them from the game.
. LURKERS, the most OP unit in ZvPand strong in TvZ was buffed?
And Hydras.
We've had faster hydra before. Prepare to see unstoppable Hydra timmings that hit very fast vs Protoss and terran. Also now Hydras will move faster out of storm receiving elss damage, will dodge Disruptor shots better, split better vs tanks.
It's a massive buff.
Just give Zerg players all the trophys now, what a farce.
I haven't been this mad at a patch ever. It's ridiculous.
I honestly refuse to believe that you play SC2 at all. There's no way you have this take while playing SC2, lol. To be fair to you and give you some points why: * protoss ground armies have been buffed. a.k.a direct buff to herO who plays oracle into super oppressive ground style. * the stupidly slow HT is more microable now and in the hands of capable protoss players, this is severely reducing the amount of HTs you can lose to dumb out positioning. * "nerfed oracle". That's a nerf to random stasis on the map that was extremely punishing and game-ending if you do a timing. It's not a nerf to the oracle's biggest functions - scouting and mineral line harass. * nerfing protoss' defense with 1 robo unit and 1 battery is reasonable. I've played protoss pre-battery era at high masters, it was always possible to defend. With the omega (green) battery defense nowadays is close to no scouting required from protoss side. * the observer is buffed in terms of speed. HELLO, stop being a victim. The model size is only fair, since it's fast and you can gain so much scouting value from this. This directly compliments the weaker omega shield battery. * Carrier is not useless, carrier is now not a unit that you start massing from minute 6 to the end of the game and win while playing solitaire on your 2nd screen. If you've watched KingCobra beating Clem and Serral (I think he did beat Serral?), this is a balance issue. * Disruptor is an anti-fun unit. It was always good on paper, terrible in execution. Focus on stronger gateway armies with faster +1, +2, +3 plays a huge role in protoss' ability to trade armies more efficiently. The seconds difference is huge for timings in both PvZ and PvT. For PvP I can't say, since I don't play it for a long while. * Last but not least, the sentry buff is huge for holding timings and punishing the other races with some shenanigans. Even the faster hallucination phoenix scout is a huge buff. Slower ravager morph time also enables sentries to be more efficient for timings. All and all, protoss can be further improved to be slightly closer to terran/zerg's non-stop skirmish efficiency. Their initial design of slow, strong, barely microable units was stupid to begin with and never earned any respect. The (community) balance team should even further try to push the race in that direction, while addressing ways to make existing underutilized units such as sentry, more supportitive.
Phantom is well known to be a terran fan boy and hates Zerg on this forum
Just ignore him and don’t take his whining posts too seriously
User was warned for this post.
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Germany338 Posts
On December 11 2022 07:35 Ahli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2022 06:47 hjpalpha wrote:On December 11 2022 06:45 Ahli wrote:On December 11 2022 06:26 Creager wrote:On December 11 2022 02:03 Ahli wrote:Does anyone have female Ghost skin on the PTR and can check if they have a snipe ability and a cancel button for it? I suspect that it is broken when looking at the data. It is also broken for Nova then. The existing cancel button does not reference the snipe ability. It references a non-existing ability command called BypassArmorCancel Would be cool if people tested more potentially broken stuff: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/604131-balance-patch-5011-ptr-patch-notes?page=7#138e.g. other observer and Ultralisk skins potentially not receiving the correct model size (besides the default skin) Else, have fun with a broken update Very interesting, did some testing with the collector's edition skin for the Ultralisk and looks like you're right, the size reduction doesn't seem to be applied for it: + Show Spoiler + Thank you very much! I've added it to my findings and credited you for verifying it <3 https://github.com/Ahli/sc2xml/pull/1On December 11 2022 06:28 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Wow, this is.... not good. Fixing this is not difficult (easiest could be moving the changes to the parent instance and check if all skins inherit this correctly). This just shows that the person doing these changes is not an editor god with years of SC2 editor experience and potentially only has little time to do this. We should assist as well as we can i know you only want to help and that you invested some time into this that the (im)balance council already should have but maybe it would be good if they first revert all changes and do reasonable changes that do not utterly break the balance I doubt the balance council knows about all changes in this patch. The balance council and I have different objectives. I do not care about balance that much as I do not play the game. Balance is for other people to decide. I only care about preventing bugs as I want to enjoy watching SC2 and not see it break apart like WC3. So, I want to assist with my years of SC2 editor experience. Whoever edits the game at Blizz should fix the bugs or remove undesired changes. The fact that we have so many undocumented changes in this update is more concerning than any imbalance right now. Most undocumented changes benefit Zerg as well. If I wouldn't check these, most bugs would probably surface some time after the update was released when Blizz probably has no more resources for a hotfix. The developer will most likely switch to WC3 which is a bit of a mess for weeks due to some one liner bug with a cache from what I have heard, or do something for Heroes as that was left on its own for an eternity. This is the state this game will likely remain at when the patch hits. If we do not invest the time now, the community will suffer because things are not fixed. So, laying back and saying that the balance is bad won't fix it. There are always voices like yours since everyone has their own opinion. Thus, single opinions will not prevent the patch from being released unless you have the gravitas of being a pro player. So, I believe that laying back and doing nothing is exactly the wrong thing to do unless you want to damage the game Also, I've spend 20 hours since yesterday evening on this because I like this. The passion for this game, the engine and discovering the issues and bugs drove me to do this. Who are you to tell me to not do what I seem to be born to do?
i am not telling you not to do it, i even appreciate it
but if this patch goes live, even with any bugs fixed it will still result in a dead game as balance gets fucked entirely
which is why i think it would be best to scrap it and start with reasonable changes or at least add more changes to not break the balance entirely
(as for who i am: i build and update lots of modules and templates for liquipedia in my free time, mostly on commons (shared repo between all lp wiki) or on sc2) so i understand that coding and eliminating bugs can be fun^^)
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On December 11 2022 14:28 hjpalpha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2022 07:35 Ahli wrote:On December 11 2022 06:47 hjpalpha wrote:On December 11 2022 06:45 Ahli wrote:On December 11 2022 06:26 Creager wrote:On December 11 2022 02:03 Ahli wrote:Does anyone have female Ghost skin on the PTR and can check if they have a snipe ability and a cancel button for it? I suspect that it is broken when looking at the data. It is also broken for Nova then. The existing cancel button does not reference the snipe ability. It references a non-existing ability command called BypassArmorCancel Would be cool if people tested more potentially broken stuff: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/604131-balance-patch-5011-ptr-patch-notes?page=7#138e.g. other observer and Ultralisk skins potentially not receiving the correct model size (besides the default skin) Else, have fun with a broken update Very interesting, did some testing with the collector's edition skin for the Ultralisk and looks like you're right, the size reduction doesn't seem to be applied for it: + Show Spoiler + Thank you very much! I've added it to my findings and credited you for verifying it <3 https://github.com/Ahli/sc2xml/pull/1On December 11 2022 06:28 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Wow, this is.... not good. Fixing this is not difficult (easiest could be moving the changes to the parent instance and check if all skins inherit this correctly). This just shows that the person doing these changes is not an editor god with years of SC2 editor experience and potentially only has little time to do this. We should assist as well as we can i know you only want to help and that you invested some time into this that the (im)balance council already should have but maybe it would be good if they first revert all changes and do reasonable changes that do not utterly break the balance I doubt the balance council knows about all changes in this patch. The balance council and I have different objectives. I do not care about balance that much as I do not play the game. Balance is for other people to decide. I only care about preventing bugs as I want to enjoy watching SC2 and not see it break apart like WC3. So, I want to assist with my years of SC2 editor experience. Whoever edits the game at Blizz should fix the bugs or remove undesired changes. The fact that we have so many undocumented changes in this update is more concerning than any imbalance right now. Most undocumented changes benefit Zerg as well. If I wouldn't check these, most bugs would probably surface some time after the update was released when Blizz probably has no more resources for a hotfix. The developer will most likely switch to WC3 which is a bit of a mess for weeks due to some one liner bug with a cache from what I have heard, or do something for Heroes as that was left on its own for an eternity. This is the state this game will likely remain at when the patch hits. If we do not invest the time now, the community will suffer because things are not fixed. So, laying back and saying that the balance is bad won't fix it. There are always voices like yours since everyone has their own opinion. Thus, single opinions will not prevent the patch from being released unless you have the gravitas of being a pro player. So, I believe that laying back and doing nothing is exactly the wrong thing to do unless you want to damage the game Also, I've spend 20 hours since yesterday evening on this because I like this. The passion for this game, the engine and discovering the issues and bugs drove me to do this. Who are you to tell me to not do what I seem to be born to do? i am not telling you not to do it, i even appreciate it but if this patch goes live, even with any bugs fixed it will still result in a dead game as balance gets fucked entirely which is why i think it would be best to scrap it and start with reasonable changes or at least add more changes to not break the balance entirely (as for who i am: i build and update lots of modules and templates for liquipedia in my free time, mostly on commons (shared repo between all lp wiki) or on sc2) so i understand that coding and eliminating bugs can be fun^^)
Ahli did nothing short of a tremendous and amazing service to the whole SC2 community by pointing out and collecting all these inconsistencies/hidden changes/bugs and this is to be seen completely separate from your opinion of the balance changes being bad.
This is stuff that absolutely needs to be looked at by whomever the SC2 dev team is composed of currently, so whoever can forward his findings to Blizzard should do so.
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HSC won t be played with this patch ?!
This is too bad, i would enjoy so much a test with all players, just hope some test matchs will be shown...
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On December 11 2022 21:56 Vision_ wrote:
HSC won t be played with this patch ?!
This is too bad, i would enjoy so much a test with all players, just hope some test matchs will be shown...
With EPT Points and IEM spots on the line, its not very appropriate to play the tournament on a new patch thats still on public testing.
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On December 11 2022 22:25 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2022 21:56 Vision_ wrote:
HSC won t be played with this patch ?!
This is too bad, i would enjoy so much a test with all players, just hope some test matchs will be shown... With EPT Points and IEM spots on the line, its not very appropriate to play the tournament on a new patch thats still on public testing.
There's a chance this patch goes live by the time Katowice rolls around. If that's the case, it is still preferable to play hsc on this patch to get first hand knowledge on how it will affect balance
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now that people have calmed down i think we can all agree terran if anyone got the better end of the balance patch right? zerg nerfs are proving to be more significant than heromarine thought as games are played on PTR.
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On December 12 2022 01:23 CicadaSC wrote:
now that people have calmed down i think we can all agree terran if anyone got the better end of the balance patch right? zerg nerfs are proving to be more significant than heromarine thought as games are played on PTR.
What changes exactly are going better for T than thought? The only change I really didn't know what to expect with was the cyclone but I feel like that would only be good for some all-ins I doubt it's enough to make battlemech a viable lategame comp. Zergs will struggle with the new allins for a while and then adjust and be more dominant than ever because this patch definitely favors them in lategame TvZ.
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On December 12 2022 01:23 CicadaSC wrote:
now that people have calmed down i think we can all agree terran if anyone got the better end of the balance patch right? zerg nerfs are proving to be more significant than heromarine thought as games are played on PTR.
What games?
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Which will have little effect at non-pro level but probably will change top-pro level TvZ quite significantly.
Ghosts might end up being much less cost-effective (which made them viable in the first place).
Welp.
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Dominican Republic610 Posts
On December 08 2022 17:32 ejozl wrote:
Seems weird to me that they would make Stasis Ward priority 20, while Widow Mines are still priority 19. For people who don't know, if you get dropped by Widow Mines. Your stalkers, cannons, void rays will prefer to attack the Medivac over the Widow Mine. And if Stasis should have the same priority as any other combat unit, then I think Widow Mines should have that as well.
Who had the idea of priority in Sc2?
Broodwar didn't have it why unit should have priority?
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3.5 limit looks wise.
Maybe they want to make broodlords more fun to play
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On December 12 2022 04:20 Vision_ wrote:
3.5 limit looks wise.
You think it's wise that all zerg unit beside BL and queen off creep can run away from snipe now, with good reaction?
Including (from what I can see from these numbers) burrowed lurkers?
Which mean ghosts might become much less cost-effecient, and terran has.... what exactly to win in late game?
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What I am afraid of the Snipe change, is that Zerg will now try to bait out the Snipe and then moving back. Its one thing that you want to take away the ability of Sniping unit ALREADY running away from Ghost, its another thing to give the Zerg unit more mobility and option during engagement.
On December 12 2022 01:08 Lokol18 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2022 22:25 tigera6 wrote:On December 11 2022 21:56 Vision_ wrote:
HSC won t be played with this patch ?!
This is too bad, i would enjoy so much a test with all players, just hope some test matchs will be shown... With EPT Points and IEM spots on the line, its not very appropriate to play the tournament on a new patch thats still on public testing. There's a chance this patch goes live by the time Katowice rolls around. If that's the case, it is still preferable to play hsc on this patch to get first hand knowledge on how it will affect balance
The only issue with that, is that this patch is still not yet finalized, and further adjustment might be done in the next couple weeks before it officially rolls out. So its a waste of time, and players are force to play on both version of the game because some other tournament are still doing the current patch.
Personally I think it should only be applied AFTER Katowice, not before, into the next EPT season (assuming ESL already sign another deal with Blizzard).
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On December 12 2022 04:26 ZeroByte13 wrote:You think it's wise that all zerg unit beside BL and queen off creep can run away from snipe now, with good reaction? Including (from what I can see from these numbers) burrowed lurkers? Which mean ghosts might become much less cost-effecient, and terran has.... what exactly to win in late game?
A lot of units have 8 or 9 points sight of view. They haven t really a chance of escaping.
lurker unborrow + escape : 0.5 + 0.77 = 1.27
time to cast snipe : 1.43
So you have 0.15 s to react. yes i always think it s fine
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Mexico2170 Posts
On December 11 2022 03:02 syndbg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2022 01:06 [Phantom] wrote:
This is one of the most INFURIATING patches I've ever seen.
Seriously what is wrong with Blizzard?
You're buffing Zerg? REALLY?
Buffing Ultras? Nerginf Disruptors? Increasing obs size model? NERFING BATTERIES?
The creep nerfs are ridiculous as well.
I feel literally disgusted. I'm not kidding I'm literally disgusted.
Buffed Hydras?
REALLY? After the fast hydras broke the game previousl¿y?
NERFED ORACLE?
Stasis Ward
Attack target priority increased from 10 to 20.
What are you doing?
}And the worst:
CARRIERS MADE USELESS Nerfed interceptors health, made carriers more likely to be targetted,and nerfing interceptors damage!!!!! (Bigger radius means interceptors will atack less as they need to get close to the unit to atack).Might as well remove them from the game.
. LURKERS, the most OP unit in ZvPand strong in TvZ was buffed?
And Hydras.
We've had faster hydra before. Prepare to see unstoppable Hydra timmings that hit very fast vs Protoss and terran. Also now Hydras will move faster out of storm receiving elss damage, will dodge Disruptor shots better, split better vs tanks.
It's a massive buff.
Just give Zerg players all the trophys now, what a farce.
I haven't been this mad at a patch ever. It's ridiculous.
I honestly refuse to believe that you play SC2 at all. There's no way you have this take while playing SC2, lol. To be fair to you and give you some points why: * protoss ground armies have been buffed. a.k.a direct buff to herO who plays oracle into super oppressive ground style. * the stupidly slow HT is more microable now and in the hands of capable protoss players, this is severely reducing the amount of HTs you can lose to dumb out positioning. * "nerfed oracle". That's a nerf to random stasis on the map that was extremely punishing and game-ending if you do a timing. It's not a nerf to the oracle's biggest functions - scouting and mineral line harass. * nerfing protoss' defense with 1 robo unit and 1 battery is reasonable. I've played protoss pre-battery era at high masters, it was always possible to defend. With the omega (green) battery defense nowadays is close to no scouting required from protoss side. * the observer is buffed in terms of speed. HELLO, stop being a victim. The model size is only fair, since it's fast and you can gain so much scouting value from this. This directly compliments the weaker omega shield battery. * Carrier is not useless, carrier is now not a unit that you start massing from minute 6 to the end of the game and win while playing solitaire on your 2nd screen. If you've watched KingCobra beating Clem and Serral (I think he did beat Serral?), this is a balance issue. * Disruptor is an anti-fun unit. It was always good on paper, terrible in execution. Focus on stronger gateway armies with faster +1, +2, +3 plays a huge role in protoss' ability to trade armies more efficiently. The seconds difference is huge for timings in both PvZ and PvT. For PvP I can't say, since I don't play it for a long while. * Last but not least, the sentry buff is huge for holding timings and punishing the other races with some shenanigans. Even the faster hallucination phoenix scout is a huge buff. Slower ravager morph time also enables sentries to be more efficient for timings. All and all, protoss can be further improved to be slightly closer to terran/zerg's non-stop skirmish efficiency. Their initial design of slow, strong, barely microable units was stupid to begin with and never earned any respect. The (community) balance team should even further try to push the race in that direction, while addressing ways to make existing underutilized units such as sentry, more supportitive.
Oh I play the game quite a bit.
The observer changes are fine.
The disruptor. I don't like the unit, it's binary. But it exist, and the colossus was nerfed to give it a place. Many times you won't hit anything with disruptors, some others you'll hit 1-2 retreating units, and some times you'll hit 10 units.
This change doesn't change the 3rd scenario much. But it will increase the first scenario by a lot. Now, in previous shots when you would only kill 1-2 units, you will kill 0 with the lesser radius. Killing a couple of units every 20 seconds is not great already, and now it will be 0. Not only that but by reducing the diameter of the nova, you're also nerfing its range. This is CRITICAL vs lurkers and siege tanks and liberators which demolish disruptors if they get close. With this disruptors will need to get closer to atack, making them die more easily. Another secret lurker buff.
The battery changes I don't like. True, batteries are too strong, specially green ones. However there is a reason that it exist, Protoss is very weak vs early all ins (that's why mothership core used to exist). I accept the nerf to the battery, but what are you doing to compensate? Letting sentries make faster? That's nice vs certain all ins, specially baneling busts and roach ravagers all ins but doesn't help agaisnt any other type of agression. While we're at it, is it really necessary that the sentry damage is so little?
The forge upgrade buff is nice...and yet not that significant. Previously forge updagrades were faster than this, then nerfed to the current research time and now they're something in the middle. They're correcting an over nerf. And while yes, this will mean protoss will get upgrades slightly faster, protoss units scare the worst of all 3 races, specially the stalker.
This will be useful for some blink and charge timmings, but it won't be for much else. The core strenght of the Protoss army is still terrible, and now the support and heavy hitting units like carriers and disruptors are nerfed.
The carrier didn't need a nerf, much less 3. I can understand it's tricky to deal with them once you have a critical mass, so maybe a nerf to make it easier to deal with (but not in strenght). But instead of making them cost more supply, or longer build time, or more resources so you couldn't mass them as easily, what they did is reduce interceptor DPS (the range of the interceptor is 2, and they will fly around in bigger circles now, while keeping the same movement speed, which means they will make less atacks per second), reduced interceptor health, and made units focus the carriers.
We've seen zergs deal with carriers with vipers, infestors and corruptors, as well as spore forest. Were 3 nerfs really necessary?
Lurkers and basically all zerg units ebing able to run away from snipe?
Ultras get smaller now, but no damage nerf to compensate? Sensor tower nerf?
The Oracle mine nerf is big. Frequently in my games I put stasis mine on my army while an engaement is happening, retreat a little and get enemy uinits caught there if they didn't snipe the stasis mine. It's called strategy and micro. Now, enemies without any micro will snipe the stasis mine, making the strategy useless, buffing them agaisnt oracles. And all that in exchange of 7 second faster upgrades.
It's an awful patch all around.
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On December 12 2022 04:36 Vision_ wrote:
A lot of units have 8 or 9 points sight of view. They haven t really a chance of escaping.
What do you mean? Zerg always has lots of overseers around when ghosts are out.
Vision range is almost never a factor here, I'd think.
Anyway, we will see how it will turn out.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/318buFZ.jpg)
