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Code S RO6 Preview - Rogue, Creator, Ragnarok, DRG - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
34 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
angry_maia
Profile Joined August 2020
311 Posts
April 24 2022 21:26 GMT
#21
Well at least trap has an excellent shot at another silver!
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
April 25 2022 01:03 GMT
#22
It's going to end up as another Dark vs Rogue classic. One thing we can say as a positive is that this might be one of the greatest and most underrated rivalries in all of SC2.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10325 Posts
April 25 2022 02:11 GMT
#23
On April 24 2022 21:40 FCHK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2022 20:18 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
On April 24 2022 20:02 Elentos wrote:
On April 24 2022 19:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Now, if say Rogue beats Creator and Ragnarok beats DRG and Creator to advance, then they will try to reward Rogue with a better "seed" into the Top4, and give Ragnarok the "tougher" opponent? (According to the group/RR seeding, which is also based on GSL points I think).

Rogue will always play Dark if he advances and Creator will always play Trap if he advances. That's set.


Thanks for the confirmation!!

So if say Rogue and Ragnarok advance, I guess Ragnarok will fight Trap, and having to fight someone from his group is just a "consequence", whereas Rogue is "rewarded" with fighting Dark / someone from the other group?

I'm really hoping Creator wins, I think he has a ~60% chance judging from his RR play, if he does then I think he has a chance vs Trap since he'd have time to prepare!! So excited.

Holy shit can Creator really make it to the GFs... Also imagine if Rogue beats Dark, I don't think Creator could beat Dark but maybe he can beat Rogue??? Holy shit.

Winner of the 2nd seed match will always play the 1st seed of the other group

If 3rd seed of the same group also advance, he will play the 1st seed of his group


Awesome thanks! That makes sense to me.

On April 25 2022 03:15 Balnazza wrote:
While another trophhy for Dark would be really cool, I hope Creator can do it. Back in the days, he always seemed like that guy that is just one step away from greatness, but then he fell off (not even sure if he did his military service or if he just dropped it). So him coming out of the gate storming like that wold be really amazing.


Yeah I agree, like in that one match vs MVP in GSL's Greatest on Tal'Darim!

Also, Creator is surprisingly young! He's still only 25, meaning back in 2011 when he fought MVP he was actually ~14!!!
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Riner1212
Profile Joined November 2012
United States337 Posts
April 25 2022 07:15 GMT
#24
i dont like these round robbin set up for gsl.
Sjow "pretty ez life as protoss"
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-25 08:12:15
April 25 2022 08:11 GMT
#25
Cool format. But it came 2-3 years too late.

Makes sense when the pool was stacked. Imagine the likes of TY, Inno, Stats, soO, Rogue, Dark, Maru, Zest, Trap battling through this double elim format...

Now? Sorry, even if Maru had snuck in (the only favourite surprisingly bowing out), the extended format just plays out as a forgone formality. Of course, upsets still can happen, but it would be because of the favourite slumping (just as Maru had).

Probably tune in for Rogue v Creator. And if Rogue wins, I really have no interest watching the rest of th matches. Sounds disrespectful to the rest. But let's be honest, their level of play in the RO10 isn't really anything spectacular...
gg no re thx
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33343 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-25 11:27:00
April 25 2022 11:26 GMT
#26
On April 25 2022 17:11 RKC wrote:
Cool format. But it came 2-3 years too late.

Makes sense when the pool was stacked. Imagine the likes of TY, Inno, Stats, soO, Rogue, Dark, Maru, Zest, Trap battling through this double elim format...

Now? Sorry, even if Maru had snuck in (the only favourite surprisingly bowing out), the extended format just plays out as a forgone formality. Of course, upsets still can happen, but it would be because of the favourite slumping (just as Maru had).


Seems like a weird conclusion to come to? The RO10 field was competitive enough that Maru and herO got knocked out despite being favorites, and DRG and Creator made it through despite being underdogs.

It can't just be players randomly slumping when it's players you like
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25050 Posts
April 25 2022 11:32 GMT
#27
On April 25 2022 20:26 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2022 17:11 RKC wrote:
Cool format. But it came 2-3 years too late.

Makes sense when the pool was stacked. Imagine the likes of TY, Inno, Stats, soO, Rogue, Dark, Maru, Zest, Trap battling through this double elim format...

Now? Sorry, even if Maru had snuck in (the only favourite surprisingly bowing out), the extended format just plays out as a forgone formality. Of course, upsets still can happen, but it would be because of the favourite slumping (just as Maru had).


Seems like a weird conclusion to come to? The RO10 field was competitive enough that Maru and herO got knocked out despite being favorites, and DRG and Creator made it through despite being underdogs.

It can't just be players randomly slumping when it's players you like

Both formats have their pros and cons. Old Ro32s/Ro16 outside of the odd time you often had 1/2 clearly better players in a group and 2 worse ones, and they (usually) played out that way.

Round robin I don’t like it in WCS EU much because some players just stomp the groups every time and it’s very predictable. But that’s more a consequence of the players than the format itself.

If Ro10 looks even close to this every season it’s rather exciting. Perhaps it starts sucking for, whatever reason but I’ve really enjoyed it, more than I was expecting tbh
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
April 25 2022 12:17 GMT
#28
The weekender format always throws up surprises in international tourneys. Trap has had his share being dumped out at the group stage.

There's a very different dynamics at play to this mass group format (playing multiple matchups in a single session) than a knockout format. Which explains why Maru used to (and perhaps still) struggle in foreign tourneys.

Just because the groups are close and upsets happen doesn't mean the tourney is any more exciting. The final four looks as predictable as any other GSL season (one outsider). The difference is that we get more unnecessary mediocre games, build up fake hype, and delay the inevitable.
gg no re thx
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1138 Posts
April 25 2022 14:31 GMT
#29
How is the dynamic different? In the Ro10 you play the same or even less games in a day than in the old format? In the old format, you had to play two or three Bo3s to advance. In this format, you have to play two Bo3s and then another two one week later. And you even know the two opponents you will have to face, giving everyone more specific prep than in the GSL format, where you don't know the exact matchups you will play. It also saves you from having to play the same guy twice, which is a very special dynamic.
Dont know about you, but in the past I always found it sad when an underdog beats the favorite, but has to play him again in the Decider and then loses. As long as there are ten atleast somewhat capable players, the new format supports upsets and doesn't give out safety nets to the top players.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-25 15:25:43
April 25 2022 15:23 GMT
#30
My gripe is with the R06 format. I have no issue with the RO10 - I was merely explaining why it's not really surprising that the groups were close and a favourite dropped out.

Back to RO6. My point is that the pool is too shallow to justify having this extra round with a double elim format. The gap between players is too wide. + Show Spoiler +
And the top 2 of each group eventually advanced. DRG and Ragnarok were clearly a level below Rogue and Creator. So we might as well just allow the top 2 players of each group advanced to SF
Maru being knocked out is fair. He's clearly not on form, nor good enough to advance. So the fact that one clear favourite fell in RO10 is irrelevant, and doesn't justify having a RO6.

RO6 makes sense when the Korean scene and RO10 groups are stacked with 7-8 top players of close to equal level. This season? Only 4 top players (1 flopped). That's all I'm saying, which is really a minor gripe. + Show Spoiler +
I only caught the Rogue-Creator game today. I'm guessing from the thread that I didn't miss much from skipping the other games.


gg no re thx
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1138 Posts
April 25 2022 15:56 GMT
#31
Ahhh, okay. That makes much more sense to me.
Yeah, the Ro6 format is a bit weird. If it was just 2nd vs. 3rd and the winner against the 1st, that would be enough. Dunno why they thought this slightly overcomplicated system was a good idea tbh.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
April 25 2022 16:11 GMT
#32
Yes, a single elim format for RO6 would be better. Maybe even switch to BO7 for each match?

Ironically, the double elim format may even favour favourites more than underdogs (eg a below form Maru sneaking in at third place in RO10 and then claiming a SF spot through the loser bracket).
gg no re thx
FCHK
Profile Joined August 2020
202 Posts
April 26 2022 00:07 GMT
#33
On April 26 2022 00:56 Balnazza wrote:
Ahhh, okay. That makes much more sense to me.
Yeah, the Ro6 format is a bit weird. If it was just 2nd vs. 3rd and the winner against the 1st, that would be enough. Dunno why they thought this slightly overcomplicated system was a good idea tbh.

If it is just 2nd vs 3rd of each group and winner advances to semi-final, there's a possibility that someone from group B will throw a map/series so he can avoid the 3rd from group A
Husyelt
Profile Blog Joined May 2020
United States830 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-26 04:09:36
April 26 2022 04:08 GMT
#34
On April 26 2022 01:11 RKC wrote:
Yes, a single elim format for RO6 would be better. Maybe even switch to BO7 for each match?

Ironically, the double elim format may even favour favourites more than underdogs (eg a below form Maru sneaking in at third place in RO10 and then claiming a SF spot through the loser bracket).

Yeah, the current state leaves favorites the ability to technically lose two? matches post open - and still be alive to win the tourney. edit: Serral is primed for this format
You're getting cynical and that won't do I'd throw the rose tint back on the exploded view
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25050 Posts
April 26 2022 11:26 GMT
#35
On April 26 2022 09:07 FCHK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2022 00:56 Balnazza wrote:
Ahhh, okay. That makes much more sense to me.
Yeah, the Ro6 format is a bit weird. If it was just 2nd vs. 3rd and the winner against the 1st, that would be enough. Dunno why they thought this slightly overcomplicated system was a good idea tbh.

If it is just 2nd vs 3rd of each group and winner advances to semi-final, there's a possibility that someone from group B will throw a map/series so he can avoid the 3rd from group A

Why would they do that? Sorry my brain isn’t working properly here today yet I’m just not sure what advantage would be gained
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
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