• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:54
CEST 05:54
KST 12:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed10Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll4Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Starcraft in widescreen A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 622 users

What balance / design changes do you want to see? - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 17 Next All
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-05-15 12:39:46
May 15 2022 12:34 GMT
#141
Can't speak to TvP, but everything problematic about Zerg feels like it's a problem with the Queen. There's no way mass Queen is what was envisioned for Z, but there's no other anti-air options until well after the main harassment has already come and gone.

So you get mass Queen, and you get mass creep, as your not-interesting catch-all "I live" gameplan. So what do P and T do? Either turn their harass into some kind of all-inny gimmick or rush to lategame.

- Reduce creep tumor vision
- Increase creep recession rate when a tumor dies
- Make inactive creep tumors visible (still need detection for the active tumor)
- Remove Queen's +1 armor

- Move Hydra Den to Hatchery tech, keep the upgrades at lair tech
- Reduce un-upgraded Hydralisk speed a notch
- Move Lurker Den to Hive tech

With the general idea that Z gets a stable anti-air option without giving them OP hatch-tech hydra all-ins. They macro slower because hydras are expensive, but transition smoother into mid-game with an army that can all-in cheesy 2/3-stargate battery/cannon builds.

It also lets Terran and Protoss do "damage" by forcing a response instead of actually *needing* to do serious damage. T/P harassment right now is nothing but a skill-check: "Can you look at the minimap and move 1-2 groups of queens around? Yes/no."

Now you can buff Banshees and make them cool again, and if you still want TvZ BC builds you could probably buff them too.
3 Hatch Before Cool
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-05-15 14:33:44
May 15 2022 13:07 GMT
#142
Reduce creep tumor vision ? It s hard to say if it s necessary to do such a change. Will there be efficient ? Is it really fundemental ?

Creep recession tumor, i should say most of casual should be ok, maybe pros players doesn t bother as well.
Inactive creep tumors visible : it s impossible, it s not a reasonnable change because you can clear easily creep beside the last one.

+ Show Spoiler +
My solution with similarity should be to consider creep tumors like a chain with visible last one so if you kill the last one, the before last becomes visible and so on. Obviously, you can add a small cooldown to reveal the new tumor.


Remove Queen armor, i m not sure as this unit has no tag armor. It should be reasonnable to position his weakness and strength against a type of damage.

I think everybody here agree of the expensive cost of an hydra. Something has to be done here.

+ Show Spoiler +
My solution i would make Roachs more swiss-knife oriented (like burrowed roachs able to pass over cliffs but for example, doesn t benefit of bonus speed on creep, with maybe a regeneration active ability ) and then increase his mineral cost by 25. While Hydras take her place in term of cost (75 minerals and 25 gas) with 1 supply, and a longer distance shoot (searching a critical mass against bio-ball).


Lurker is garbage in actual state because he is good at everything, destroy casual games (except if you are enought good with ghosts)

PS : Or maybe fix the cost of hydralisk from 100/50 to 100/25 (keeping supply cost 2) and work out on units with a close relationship
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
May 15 2022 14:40 GMT
#143
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 18 2022 15:06 GMT
#144
On May 15 2022 19:06 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2022 16:07 Jerubaal wrote:
On May 15 2022 14:11 serendipitous wrote:
No units should exist that can end the game in a single hit like disruptors can


Well people didn't want a solid, steady source of aoe damage like the colossus, so instead we got a high risk/high reward unit.

but still have the Collossus


Zerg still have swarmhosts.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Drfilip
Profile Joined March 2013
Sweden590 Posts
May 18 2022 18:58 GMT
#145
On May 15 2022 21:34 -Kaiser- wrote:
- Increase creep recession rate when a tumor dies

Creep spreads at the same rate as it recedes. This has been true from WoL.
The rate has changed in LotV. Creep got "nerfed" by increasing the rate. This allowed creep to be spread faster with equal amounts of tumors.
The increased queen numbers in current meta adds to the creep spread speed.
What would happen if the WoL/HotS spread rate came back but the receding rate increased?


Side note: Scarlett's creep spread reputation started with her spreading creep both relentlessly and efficiently. Pre LotV 2 tumors were needed to make the creep spread to the tumors' max range when their coldown was up. The single tumor roads were slow to build and Scarlett was among the few to invest in that second tumor off the early queens. She also used her tumors within seconds of them being able to spread for almost the entire game.

Today the difference between great spreaders and the rest is mostly about attention spent on it. There are an abundance of queens so there is no lack of energy for more tumors.
This makes me curious about giving each queen a limited amount of tumor uses. 25 energy limited to 4 uses. The late game creep will be affected but not the so much the early game creep. How will this shape games? Maybe let lairs and hives be able to recharge tumors for a resource cost so Zerg doesn't have to invest supply into more queens when they run out of tumors.
Random Platinum EU
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States873 Posts
May 19 2022 00:31 GMT
#146
I'm getting old and want a "remove one from selection" button. For example, if I have 20 zerglings or marines selected and want to send several individuals to scout ahead or different areas of the map, I have to right click the minimap, move my mouse back to the group selection, shift+click a unit out of the group, move my mouse back to the minimap to right click the next location, etc. etc. My suggested hotkey would just deselect the first unit in the selection so I can be lazy and never move my mouse away from the minimap while I choose locations.
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25085 Posts
May 19 2022 00:52 GMT
#147
On May 19 2022 09:31 Kitai wrote:
I'm getting old and want a "remove one from selection" button. For example, if I have 20 zerglings or marines selected and want to send several individuals to scout ahead or different areas of the map, I have to right click the minimap, move my mouse back to the group selection, shift+click a unit out of the group, move my mouse back to the minimap to right click the next location, etc. etc. My suggested hotkey would just deselect the first unit in the selection so I can be lazy and never move my mouse away from the minimap while I choose locations.

That would be neat as a QoL change for sure.

Certain tasks are just laborious and could absolutely be optimised with some more options in terms of command/UI

I wonder if you combined that with a massive mouse wave/move command spam if you could split bio at the individual unit level
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States873 Posts
May 19 2022 01:10 GMT
#148
On May 19 2022 09:52 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2022 09:31 Kitai wrote:
I'm getting old and want a "remove one from selection" button. For example, if I have 20 zerglings or marines selected and want to send several individuals to scout ahead or different areas of the map, I have to right click the minimap, move my mouse back to the group selection, shift+click a unit out of the group, move my mouse back to the minimap to right click the next location, etc. etc. My suggested hotkey would just deselect the first unit in the selection so I can be lazy and never move my mouse away from the minimap while I choose locations.

That would be neat as a QoL change for sure.

Certain tasks are just laborious and could absolutely be optimised with some more options in terms of command/UI

I wonder if you combined that with a massive mouse wave/move command spam if you could split bio at the individual unit level


Hah, didn't even think about that application. That would be awesome!!
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
jack_less
Profile Joined May 2022
77 Posts
May 19 2022 06:33 GMT
#149
On May 15 2022 08:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Vipers & Abduct
... In LotV, we don't have a deathball problem anymore,...
Abduct pulling expensive units is just very anti-fun.


I find the definition of "fun" very one-sided.
Toss sit with skytoss over sb and cannon is fun?
but viper abduct is not fun?


Personally, I hope they change the Carrier, change the priority of Interceptors, or reduce the leash range so they have to move more.
bela.mervado
Profile Joined December 2008
Hungary387 Posts
May 19 2022 07:21 GMT
#150
On May 19 2022 09:31 Kitai wrote:
I'm getting old and want a "remove one from selection" button. For example, if I have 20 zerglings or marines selected and want to send several individuals to scout ahead or different areas of the map, I have to right click the minimap, move my mouse back to the group selection, shift+click a unit out of the group, move my mouse back to the minimap to right click the next location, etc. etc. My suggested hotkey would just deselect the first unit in the selection so I can be lazy and never move my mouse away from the minimap while I choose locations.


you can do this now this way:

- have a junk hotkey group, rebind #0 to a convenient key (i'll keep referring to this hotkey group as #0)
- select your ling group (#1 for example)
- click one ling in the unit list at the bottom of the screen, you don't even need to look at the lings/units
- alt + 0 to steal the ling, move it to the junk group
- move command your ling on the minimap
- repeat

now this won't be that automatic as the select first unit (sometimes, hydra+ling+bane army comes to my mind, you don't want the first one anyways), but you don't need to move your mouse too much.

you can change your hotkeys so that ctrl+# actually steals, or even better, simply pressing 0 steals to the group 10,
as you do not want to select your junk group units. you can always click select the group on the ui in case you mess up something (or keep shift/ctrl+0 as group selection).
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10328 Posts
May 19 2022 09:38 GMT
#151
On May 19 2022 15:33 jack_less wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2022 08:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Vipers & Abduct
... In LotV, we don't have a deathball problem anymore,...
Abduct pulling expensive units is just very anti-fun.


I find the definition of "fun" very one-sided.
Toss sit with skytoss over sb and cannon is fun?
but viper abduct is not fun?


Personally, I hope they change the Carrier, change the priority of Interceptors, or reduce the leash range so they have to move more.


I would be down with tweaks to Carriers too. Lategame skytoss could be taken a look at, I'm just not really familiar with it. Good point that Abduct is helpful in those situations. I'm mostly annoyed by Abduct when used in the midgame, it seems a bit too powerful as it seems to be good at pushing one's advantage even harder and reducing comeback potential (due to lack of meaningful interaction/micro). Maybe it's not as much of an issue now that HTs have longer range feedback, I don't see many games ending anti-climaticly in GSL anymore.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15925 Posts
May 19 2022 11:27 GMT
#152
On May 19 2022 16:21 bela.mervado wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2022 09:31 Kitai wrote:
I'm getting old and want a "remove one from selection" button. For example, if I have 20 zerglings or marines selected and want to send several individuals to scout ahead or different areas of the map, I have to right click the minimap, move my mouse back to the group selection, shift+click a unit out of the group, move my mouse back to the minimap to right click the next location, etc. etc. My suggested hotkey would just deselect the first unit in the selection so I can be lazy and never move my mouse away from the minimap while I choose locations.


you can do this now this way:

- have a junk hotkey group, rebind #0 to a convenient key (i'll keep referring to this hotkey group as #0)
- select your ling group (#1 for example)
- click one ling in the unit list at the bottom of the screen, you don't even need to look at the lings/units
- alt + 0 to steal the ling, move it to the junk group
- move command your ling on the minimap
- repeat

now this won't be that automatic as the select first unit (sometimes, hydra+ling+bane army comes to my mind, you don't want the first one anyways), but you don't need to move your mouse too much.

you can change your hotkeys so that ctrl+# actually steals, or even better, simply pressing 0 steals to the group 10,
as you do not want to select your junk group units. you can always click select the group on the ui in case you mess up something (or keep shift/ctrl+0 as group selection).

I'd recommend changing alt+# to the normal strg+# anyway since there's almost never a situation in which you want 1 unit in 2 seperate control groups (with Bio mine to quickly select the mines while also keeping everything in the main control group is the only situation that comes to mind.)
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
kellyhilton
Profile Joined May 2022
1 Post
May 19 2022 17:52 GMT
#153
Hello,

Not so much flourishing nor so much bright, I like an average of mixed.

Regards: halloween squishmallows

User was banned for this post.
Hvvacha
Profile Joined April 2018
82 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-05-20 01:31:50
May 20 2022 01:30 GMT
#154
- Medivac Rapid Reignition System replaced with bigger cargo upgrade
- Siege Tank HP & perhaps Siege changes reverted, add +2 fire range while sieged upgrade instead
- Widow Mine hold fire ability
Beelzebub1
Profile Joined May 2015
1004 Posts
May 20 2022 01:36 GMT
#155
Would be nice to maybe hear some correspondence from the balance team, new maps are also an absolute must. I feel like future map picks need to be chosen off of balance and not off of which one looks the best.
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
May 20 2022 14:35 GMT
#156
On May 19 2022 03:58 Drfilip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2022 21:34 -Kaiser- wrote:
- Increase creep recession rate when a tumor dies

This makes me curious about giving each queen a limited amount of tumor uses. 25 energy limited to 4 uses. The late game creep will be affected but not the so much the early game creep. How will this shape games? Maybe let lairs and hives be able to recharge tumors for a resource cost so Zerg doesn't have to invest supply into more queens when they run out of tumors.


You can t limit the amount of this spell because it sn t intuitive to block a spell after a specific number. The only acceptable solution would be one tumors per queen like if you have a single-use ability. Same for one queen per hatch, it s not acceptable because players could waste his 'mouse-actions' in trying to do something and will result as a frustration.

I trust in the solution with a chain-tumors with the last one only visible. It s not a big change in the gameplay, and it will help most of the people. It also can increase the interest of the battle for territory.
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2577 Posts
May 20 2022 14:38 GMT
#157
I disagree. Vultures had a similar ability in BW with a limited number of casts, and no one struggles to understand the concept of not having any more mines.
The frumious Bandersnatch
LeereKiste
Profile Joined May 2022
2 Posts
May 20 2022 17:37 GMT
#158
I wish there would be a spectator mode, when people play games, so I can watch the pros playing ingame. Perhaps there should be a disable funktion then.
Second a function that makes it possible to watch (the top 10?) replays in the matchhistory of other players for analyzing games.

Does that makes sense or is there another way to do things like that?

I am new here btw.

sincerely diamond 3 player
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
May 20 2022 17:48 GMT
#159
On May 20 2022 23:38 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I disagree. Vultures had a similar ability in BW with a limited number of casts, and no one struggles to understand the concept of not having any more mines.


Mines charge ability is reloaded while i don t think : "limited amount of 4 tumors" means that Queens have 4 charges which recovers after some delay.
Athenau
Profile Joined March 2015
569 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-05-20 21:03:45
May 20 2022 21:03 GMT
#160
On May 21 2022 02:48 Vision_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2022 23:38 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I disagree. Vultures had a similar ability in BW with a limited number of casts, and no one struggles to understand the concept of not having any more mines.


Mines charge ability is reloaded while i don t think : "limited amount of 4 tumors" means that Queens have 4 charges which recovers after some delay.

Spider mines can't be reloaded-a BW vulture comes with 3 mines and that's it.
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 17 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#40
davetesta40
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 248
RuFF_SC2 161
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17472
Sharp 74
Icarus 10
LuMiX 3
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm124
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K156
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox631
Mew2King88
Other Games
summit1g14529
ViBE216
Trikslyr60
ROOTCatZ35
CosmosSc2 23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3189
BasetradeTV21
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH303
• Light_VIP 77
• practicex 26
• OhrlRock 2
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• masondota2750
• Lourlo655
• Stunt309
Other Games
• Scarra1420
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12h 6m
Replay Cast
20h 6m
The PondCast
1d 6h
OSC
1d 9h
WardiTV European League
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Epic.LAN
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CSO Contender
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Online Event
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
6 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.