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IEM Katowice 2022 - Final four players set for Sunday

Forum Index > SC2 General
55 CommentsPost a Reply
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TL.net ESPORTS
Profile Joined July 2011
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-27 08:18:15
February 27 2022 01:07 GMT
#1
[image loading]
IEM Katowice 2022


It will be a foreigner-filled final four at IEM Katowice, with (Wiki)Reynor, (Wiki)HeroMarine, (Wiki)Serral, and (Wiki)Rogue fighting through day one of the playoffs to earn spots in the final day of the tournament.

The surprise of the day was clearly HeroMarine, whose previous best finish at a world championship-tier event had been top 12 at last year's IEM Katowice. This time, he blew past his own personal record by reaching the semifinals. Big Gabe needed two, hard-fought victories against (Wiki)Zoun and (Wiki)Solar to get there, but he was able to clutch out victories in the end. His third game against Solar on Hardwire was particularly notable, with its frantic basetrade ending making it one of the candidates for most entertaining game of the tournament (VOD). With IEM Katowice 2022 producing an unusual number of exceptional matches, it will be hard to pick just one such game. It turned out to be a good day for HeroMarine in more ways than one, as his signature Series profile video also debuted at IEM.

Interestingly enough, HeroMarine was relatively pleased by his semifinal opponent: the reigning IEM Katowice champion Reynor. While HeroMarine has terribly one-sided records against some of the other title contenders, he's historically been able to take Reynor to close matches and has won a number of BO5 series against him. As for Reynor, he survived a very close call against (Wiki)Dark to reach the semifinal round. The series between the two ZvZ greats delivered back-to-back thrillers on Hardwire and Berlingrad (VOD), with Dark using his mastery over Lurkers and Vipers to earn two impossible comebacks against an impatient Reynor. Fortunately for Reynor, he adapted to Dark's defensive style in game five and beat him at his own game.

After going 10-0 in the group stage, Serral was faced with the considerable challenge of facing (Wiki)Maru in the quarterfinals. The Team NV Terran had come into IEM as one of the top title favorites, and had also defeated Serral months prior in the online King of Battles 2 finals. However, Serral had the upper hand in their first major live match, taking a convincing 3-1 victory. As it turned out, late-game Maru is still virtually invincible—Serral's sole loss came to Maru's clinical Ghost-mech play on Hardwire (VOD). But with a Baneling bust on Blackburn, and overwhelming mid-game Ling-Bane play on Pride of Altaris and Berlingrad, Serral was able to win the dream match and move onto the semifinals.

Rogue ended up being the only player to hold up Korea's pride in the tournament, though he earned that status by default due to coming out of an all-Korean quadrant of the bracket. The two-time IEM World Champion's run wasn't entirely convincing, as he was heavily pressured by two Terran underdogs in (Wiki)Ryung and (Wiki)Bunny. Yet, he was still able to eke wins out in the end—a testament to his much-renowned ability to perform under pressure. Rogue's best performance probably came on Blackburn against Bunny, where he overcame a poor start and eventually picked his opponent apart with Lurkers (VOD).

Other players who authored noteworthy matches included (Wiki)Dream, who earned the distinction of actually outplaying Maru and beating him in a late-game TvT (VOD), and (Wiki)Zoun, who fully leveraged the might of Disruptors to come from behind against HeroMarine (VOD).

IEM Katowice will conclude with the semifinals and grand finals on Sunday, Feb 27 9:45am GMT (GMT+00:00).
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TL+ Member
pandorasheep
Profile Joined February 2022
73 Posts
February 27 2022 01:10 GMT
#2
Looks about right. Nice work to HeroMarine and Serral for their upsets though!
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12985 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-27 01:19:32
February 27 2022 01:19 GMT
#3
Really good write-up. Like it just flows super sharp. Who wrote it??
Telephone
Profile Joined October 2010
United States129 Posts
February 27 2022 01:20 GMT
#4
WTB Terran favored maps in TvZ
Itsxjoeyy
Profile Joined April 2020
30 Posts
February 27 2022 02:48 GMT
#5
On February 27 2022 10:10 pandorasheep wrote:
Looks about right. Nice work to HeroMarine and Serral for their upsets though!

I wouldn’t call serral beating maru an upset lol
tommey.liang
Profile Joined November 2020
United States361 Posts
February 27 2022 03:22 GMT
#6
Reynor is now tied at 4-4 (W-L) series overall vs. Dark, very impressive. Was quite a surprise to see HeroMarine advance indeed, but Solar is very beatable; predicting for Reynor to 3-1 or 3-0 him, though.

Also that game 2 of Serral vs. Maru was one for the ages. Rogue is now Korea's only hope.

Not to discredit the three Europeans, but I wonder if the flight from Korea to Katowice, Poland may have affected the Korean players even slightly as well. I know for sure when traditional sports of traveling from East Coast to West Coast (moreso than from West to East) it can have a toll on the athletes.
FF, KH, Persona, Uncharted, Yakuza | Porter, Illenium, MitiS, Dabin, Seven Lions, Petit Biscuit | Diablo II, SC2 | Pho, sushi, tacos
Howard_Kao
Profile Joined September 2018
China261 Posts
February 27 2022 05:34 GMT
#7
I do feel like Heromarine has a chance winning against Reynor if he keep his form up tomorrow, his form today against Solar looks extremely good
"You don't need a gsl champion, you don't need a esl champion. I feel like I'm just a normal man. I just practice very hard this time, like 15hrs everyday" Oliveira 2023
tilhorizon
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany191 Posts
February 27 2022 07:16 GMT
#8
On February 27 2022 10:10 pandorasheep wrote:
Looks about right. Nice work to HeroMarine and Serral for their upsets though!



serral was the clear favorite

if u did bet on serral you would get 1,7 odds if you did bet on maru u did get 2.odds by the bookmaker
tilhorizon
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany191 Posts
February 27 2022 07:22 GMT
#9
On February 27 2022 12:22 tommey.liang wrote:
Reynor is now tied at 4-4 (W-L) series overall vs. Dark, very impressive. Was quite a surprise to see HeroMarine advance indeed, but Solar is very beatable; predicting for Reynor to 3-1 or 3-0 him, though.

Also that game 2 of Serral vs. Maru was one for the ages. Rogue is now Korea's only hope.

Not to discredit the three Europeans, but I wonder if the flight from Korea to Katowice, Poland may have affected the Korean players even slightly as well. I know for sure when traditional sports of traveling from East Coast to West Coast (moreso than from West to East) it can have a toll on the athletes.



no, this time there is no excuse no server issues no sleeping problems because of late hours ore what so ever
the koreans did not arrive 1 day before the tournament start but more like 1 week to avoid any possible jetlag problems

digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6327 Posts
February 27 2022 07:33 GMT
#10
On February 27 2022 12:22 tommey.liang wrote:
Reynor is now tied at 4-4 (W-L) series overall vs. Dark, very impressive. Was quite a surprise to see HeroMarine advance indeed, but Solar is very beatable; predicting for Reynor to 3-1 or 3-0 him, though.

Also that game 2 of Serral vs. Maru was one for the ages. Rogue is now Korea's only hope.

Not to discredit the three Europeans, but I wonder if the flight from Korea to Katowice, Poland may have affected the Korean players even slightly as well. I know for sure when traditional sports of traveling from East Coast to West Coast (moreso than from West to East) it can have a toll on the athletes.

Aside from TIME and Cyan all the Asian players arrive a few days before group stage so they got plenty of rest.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
DarkGamer
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany318 Posts
February 27 2022 08:16 GMT
#11
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.
atrox_
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom1710 Posts
February 27 2022 08:18 GMT
#12
disappointing that its another final I just wont see because mirrors just bore the life out of me. Congrats to whoever goes on to win it
Lambertus
Profile Joined February 2010
South Africa965 Posts
February 27 2022 08:20 GMT
#13
On February 27 2022 10:19 Pandain wrote:
Really good write-up. Like it just flows super sharp. Who wrote it??


From the style it could be Wax.


The only known Reverend on TL playing SC2 and BW (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409226)
pandorasheep
Profile Joined February 2022
73 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-27 08:24:25
February 27 2022 08:20 GMT
#14
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.


I mean there's only 2 possibilities that caused this upset:

1. Matchfixing
2. Maru was simply tired and his wrists hurt. Zerg is infinitely easier to play than Terran, hence why a lot of the "top" foreigners are Zerg, and Maru came all the way from Korea. Jetlag affects everyone differently. It seems to affect Maru more which is why he performed so well when traveling to China or playing online. I can guarantee you that Maru wins an easy 3-0 if Serral had to go to Korea

On February 27 2022 16:33 digmouse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 12:22 tommey.liang wrote:
Reynor is now tied at 4-4 (W-L) series overall vs. Dark, very impressive. Was quite a surprise to see HeroMarine advance indeed, but Solar is very beatable; predicting for Reynor to 3-1 or 3-0 him, though.

Also that game 2 of Serral vs. Maru was one for the ages. Rogue is now Korea's only hope.

Not to discredit the three Europeans, but I wonder if the flight from Korea to Katowice, Poland may have affected the Korean players even slightly as well. I know for sure when traditional sports of traveling from East Coast to West Coast (moreso than from West to East) it can have a toll on the athletes.

Aside from TIME and Cyan all the Asian players arrive a few days before group stage so they got plenty of rest.


It takes one day of full rest per timezone when traveling east to west. A few days aren't enough on top of the Koreans practicing and Maru needing to worry about being in the group of death and "others" having the luxury of no jetlag or being in a stacked group
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12761 Posts
February 27 2022 08:30 GMT
#15
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.

Well we all seen the top 4 zergs are unbeatable in important tournaments, Maru was the last hope but as I said it would have taken a miracle on the current map pool
WriterMaru
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33199 Posts
February 27 2022 08:47 GMT
#16
On February 27 2022 17:20 Lambertus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 10:19 Pandain wrote:
Really good write-up. Like it just flows super sharp. Who wrote it??


From the style it could be Wax.



it me
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
tilhorizon
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany191 Posts
February 27 2022 09:11 GMT
#17
serral maru

just to clarify , since mid 2018 when serral become the best until now serral was/is the favorite to win vs maru (despite what many, even casters say)

serral vs maru matches all time 8 vs 4
serral maru map score all time 18 vs 14

historical score/score vs opposing race/form/form vs opposing race/score vs each other.
in all category serral is ahead


serral is also a higher favorite to win vs any protoss
and now you maybe thinking, ok but at least vs the top korean zergs maru has a higher chance of winning
but no even in that category serral has the higher % chance (alligulacc.com)

and for the statistic and alligulac denier just check the bookmakers , they dont give money away for free
the bookmakers should be the ultimate proof and they always think serral is the favorite to win
no matter if the game is online ore live no matter if it is in korea ore europe no matter if it is a bo1 ore bo7
you always did get the worse betting odds if you bet on serral instead of maru
in this tournament it was serral 1.7 vs maru 2.0 odds
(if you bet 1$ on serral you win 70cent if you bet 1$ on maru u did win 1$)
TRSC2
Profile Joined February 2022
1 Post
February 27 2022 09:22 GMT
#18
Yesterday was honestly the best day of SC2 I've seen in many years. It's so great to see everyone back and playing offline, and the players really did not disappoint!
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1102 Posts
February 27 2022 12:59 GMT
#19
On February 27 2022 17:20 pandorasheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.


I mean there's only 2 possibilities that caused this upset:

1. Matchfixing
2. Maru was simply tired and his wrists hurt. Zerg is infinitely easier to play than Terran, hence why a lot of the "top" foreigners are Zerg, and Maru came all the way from Korea. Jetlag affects everyone differently. It seems to affect Maru more which is why he performed so well when traveling to China or playing online. I can guarantee you that Maru wins an easy 3-0 if Serral had to go to Korea

Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 16:33 digmouse wrote:
On February 27 2022 12:22 tommey.liang wrote:
Reynor is now tied at 4-4 (W-L) series overall vs. Dark, very impressive. Was quite a surprise to see HeroMarine advance indeed, but Solar is very beatable; predicting for Reynor to 3-1 or 3-0 him, though.

Also that game 2 of Serral vs. Maru was one for the ages. Rogue is now Korea's only hope.

Not to discredit the three Europeans, but I wonder if the flight from Korea to Katowice, Poland may have affected the Korean players even slightly as well. I know for sure when traditional sports of traveling from East Coast to West Coast (moreso than from West to East) it can have a toll on the athletes.

Aside from TIME and Cyan all the Asian players arrive a few days before group stage so they got plenty of rest.


It takes one day of full rest per timezone when traveling east to west. A few days aren't enough on top of the Koreans practicing and Maru needing to worry about being in the group of death and "others" having the luxury of no jetlag or being in a stacked group


So you are saying Maru is a bad pro-gamer, either because he is matchfixer-scum or because he only can win when literally everything is perfect for him? Damn, you don't need to insult him that hard, the kid just lost a big tournament against a clear better player, give him some slack
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2704 Posts
February 27 2022 13:01 GMT
#20
On February 27 2022 17:47 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 17:20 Lambertus wrote:
On February 27 2022 10:19 Pandain wrote:
Really good write-up. Like it just flows super sharp. Who wrote it??


From the style it could be Wax.



it me

I only realized recently that Waxangel should've been Astrea's ID :^)
very illegal and very uncool
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3221 Posts
February 27 2022 14:47 GMT
#21
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.

And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark.
DarkGamer
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany318 Posts
February 27 2022 14:54 GMT
#22
On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.

And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark.


what is a clown build? it seems u dont understand the strategy-aspect of sc2. i dont want to insult you, but we can a) believe that maru understands the game well or b) u understand the game better then maru. i vote vor a)
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3221 Posts
February 28 2022 02:48 GMT
#23
On February 27 2022 23:54 DarkGamer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.

And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark.


what is a clown build? it seems u dont understand the strategy-aspect of sc2. i dont want to insult you, but we can a) believe that maru understands the game well or b) u understand the game better then maru. i vote vor a)

To me, and most of us who understand the game, the best way Maru could win in TvZ in drag thing out and use his lategame prowess to take the game over. While early game pressure build is good, double reapers is just not working against top Zerg, they are just BAD build. Remember how Maru did something similar against Dark in Last Chance, and Dark just made some Roach, walk over and kill him straight up? Like how you expect that to works against Serral?
Just because Maru understand the game better than all of us fans, doesnt mean ALL of his decision are always correct. He took an unnecessary risk and Serral made it look silly.
Itsxjoeyy
Profile Joined April 2020
30 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-02-28 05:20:28
February 28 2022 05:15 GMT
#24
On February 27 2022 17:20 pandorasheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.


I mean there's only 2 possibilities that caused this upset:

1. Matchfixing
2. Maru was simply tired and his wrists hurt. Zerg is infinitely easier to play than Terran, hence why a lot of the "top" foreigners are Zerg, and Maru came all the way from Korea. Jetlag affects everyone differently. It seems to affect Maru more which is why he performed so well when traveling to China or playing online. I can guarantee you that Maru wins an easy 3-0 if Serral had to go to Korea

Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 16:33 digmouse wrote:
On February 27 2022 12:22 tommey.liang wrote:
Reynor is now tied at 4-4 (W-L) series overall vs. Dark, very impressive. Was quite a surprise to see HeroMarine advance indeed, but Solar is very beatable; predicting for Reynor to 3-1 or 3-0 him, though.

Also that game 2 of Serral vs. Maru was one for the ages. Rogue is now Korea's only hope.

Not to discredit the three Europeans, but I wonder if the flight from Korea to Katowice, Poland may have affected the Korean players even slightly as well. I know for sure when traditional sports of traveling from East Coast to West Coast (moreso than from West to East) it can have a toll on the athletes.

Aside from TIME and Cyan all the Asian players arrive a few days before group stage so they got plenty of rest.


It takes one day of full rest per timezone when traveling east to west. A few days aren't enough on top of the Koreans practicing and Maru needing to worry about being in the group of death and "others" having the luxury of no jetlag or being in a stacked group

So what about when serral went to Korea and won gsl vs the world..twice? Was he not tired due to jet-lag and won anyway because there’s no excuses? In the words of Michael Jordan “if I step on the court, I’m ready to play no excuses” so stop making them for maru. U sound stupid
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6805 Posts
February 28 2022 08:15 GMT
#25
On February 27 2022 17:20 pandorasheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.


I mean there's only 2 possibilities that caused this upset:

1. Matchfixing
2. Maru was simply tired and his wrists hurt. Zerg is infinitely easier to play than Terran, hence why a lot of the "top" foreigners are Zerg, and Maru came all the way from Korea. Jetlag affects everyone differently. It seems to affect Maru more which is why he performed so well when traveling to China or playing online. I can guarantee you that Maru wins an easy 3-0 if Serral had to go to Korea

Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 16:33 digmouse wrote:
On February 27 2022 12:22 tommey.liang wrote:
Reynor is now tied at 4-4 (W-L) series overall vs. Dark, very impressive. Was quite a surprise to see HeroMarine advance indeed, but Solar is very beatable; predicting for Reynor to 3-1 or 3-0 him, though.

Also that game 2 of Serral vs. Maru was one for the ages. Rogue is now Korea's only hope.

Not to discredit the three Europeans, but I wonder if the flight from Korea to Katowice, Poland may have affected the Korean players even slightly as well. I know for sure when traditional sports of traveling from East Coast to West Coast (moreso than from West to East) it can have a toll on the athletes.

Aside from TIME and Cyan all the Asian players arrive a few days before group stage so they got plenty of rest.


It takes one day of full rest per timezone when traveling east to west. A few days aren't enough on top of the Koreans practicing and Maru needing to worry about being in the group of death and "others" having the luxury of no jetlag or being in a stacked group


Hahahaha sweet tears of Korean Elitist taste so good
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
sc2_edc
Profile Joined April 2021
5 Posts
February 28 2022 10:06 GMT
#26
At least Rogue had the courage to address balance in 2019 after WCS Global Finals.
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12761 Posts
February 28 2022 10:08 GMT
#27
On February 28 2022 19:06 sc2_edc wrote:
At least Rogue had the courage to address balance in 2019 after WCS Global Finals.

He did it before BlizzCon iirc. But yeah for a « villain » he was very honest. Too bad he got 3-0d here, would have loved a better fight
WriterMaru
luxon
Profile Joined August 2012
United States109 Posts
February 28 2022 22:59 GMT
#28
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.
Drahkn
Profile Joined June 2021
186 Posts
March 01 2022 01:35 GMT
#29
Good to see Protoss perform so well, I guess twitch chat was right all along xD
angry_maia
Profile Joined August 2020
301 Posts
March 01 2022 01:49 GMT
#30
On March 01 2022 10:35 Drahkn wrote:
Good to see Protoss perform so well, I guess twitch chat was right all along xD


I mean honest question about this, are there tons of people that like would rather protoss just get deleted? I've always felt that one of the coolest parts of SC was that there were **3** races with distinct play styles that they tried to balance.
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1102 Posts
March 01 2022 02:43 GMT
#31
On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.


1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?
2)You have to host an international offline event somewhere. IEM Kattowice is the most prestigious event ESL has in store, while also being a big tournament in the past for SC2. Where else would they host it? Korea? Where ESL has no standing at all and the show would probably need to be hosted in korean?
3)No one was surprised, it was just a big milestone. Might happen more in the future. Korea still has the most high end players per country, but the GSL as a whole isn't really much more competitive than EU tbh.

I would agree on the balance-patch though. Not that the balance is much out of order, but you need to shake up the game. New maps alone can't do that forever.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3221 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-01 05:10:58
March 01 2022 05:09 GMT
#32
On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.


1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?

Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament.
But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6805 Posts
March 01 2022 09:09 GMT
#33
On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.


1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?

Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament.
But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.


So you are saying the Koreans didn't prepare or practice for the single biggest tournament of the year?

Like it was said before, ESL only does everything but Korea, which is organized by Afreeca? or some other Korean organisation. The money from the pools does not come from ESL but from Blizzard.
Korea gets its fair share of that cake IMO.
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
SpaWnvERtiGO
Profile Joined November 2016
110 Posts
March 01 2022 12:28 GMT
#34
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.



Bro... it's been Zergcraft for years now. Rouge was the only one to tell the truth. It's been shit since the Raven nerf...
SpaWnvERtiGO
Profile Joined November 2016
110 Posts
March 01 2022 12:32 GMT
#35
On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.

And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark.


They arnt bad openings. The game just doesnt HAVE any real pressure openings Terran can do anymore. The guy trying to FIND something that can actually put pressure on a zerg.
SpaWnvERtiGO
Profile Joined November 2016
110 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-01 12:35:41
March 01 2022 12:35 GMT
#36
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.



Hes really not. The matchup has been fucked since they took away Terran late game splash...


The early game is nonexistent, mid game is Zerg favored. Just a move banes, babe run bysl.
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1102 Posts
March 01 2022 13:50 GMT
#37
On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.


1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?

Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament.
But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.


So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL?
As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't).
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3221 Posts
March 01 2022 15:00 GMT
#38
On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:
On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.


1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?

Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament.
But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.


So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL?
As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't).

I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there.
As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other.



tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3221 Posts
March 01 2022 15:04 GMT
#39
On March 01 2022 21:32 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.

And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark.


They arnt bad openings. The game just doesnt HAVE any real pressure openings Terran can do anymore. The guy trying to FIND something that can actually put pressure on a zerg.

I could name a couple pressure build from Terran that doesnt involve double rack Reapers, like 2-1-1, 3 Racks, 2 base pressure. Like HM win several games in IEM just through purely 2 base push and he executed it pretty flawlessly. So dont tell me Terran doesnt have anything else. Maru did the same thing against Dark in Last Chance, and Dark just made a couple Roach to defend, then walk across the map and choked him off instantly.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24404 Posts
March 01 2022 15:29 GMT
#40
On March 02 2022 00:04 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2022 21:32 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:
On February 27 2022 23:47 tigera6 wrote:
On February 27 2022 17:16 DarkGamer wrote:
funny how even now the korean elitists try to find excuses. i rooted for maru against serral but i can admit that serral just was the better player. sure, maru could have been more crisp on berlingrad and i dont understand not vetoeing altaris, but i cant imagine maru taking this bo5 with serral beeing so 100% on point.

And Maru did a clown build with that double Racks Reapers as well, I mean the best chance he got was to bring things into lategame. As a Maru fan, I think the largest issue I got with him is how he does those unbelievable bad opening at times, get countered and then straight up lost. And yeah, the decision to veto something else other than Pride was also a huge question mark.


They arnt bad openings. The game just doesnt HAVE any real pressure openings Terran can do anymore. The guy trying to FIND something that can actually put pressure on a zerg.

I could name a couple pressure build from Terran that doesnt involve double rack Reapers, like 2-1-1, 3 Racks, 2 base pressure. Like HM win several games in IEM just through purely 2 base push and he executed it pretty flawlessly. So dont tell me Terran doesnt have anything else. Maru did the same thing against Dark in Last Chance, and Dark just made a couple Roach to defend, then walk across the map and choked him off instantly.

Not all gambles pay off, I’m unsure if that’s even a good gamble to make granted.

Even more questionable, to me is not vetoing Pride of Altaris. If you’re going to not veto a terrible map for your race in the matchup, then you should have a prepped build in store.

Instead Maru tried to play a straight macro game in probably the worst map in the pool to play a straight macro game, against Serral of all people.

These are just bad choices, reminiscent of last year against Reynor. Can’t remember exactly what it was off-hand, but in one of the best maps in the pool for that Maru defensive style, he threw in something wonky and got punished.

There’s being unpredictable and there’s not playing a series to your strengths by choice. In these world championship tournies his set planning has been consistently lacking.

In other tournaments, and in sets in Katowice both this and last year when Maru’s actually got to play his particular game there’s been plenty of times where even the best Zergs fall apart trying to break him.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1102 Posts
March 02 2022 00:53 GMT
#41
On March 02 2022 00:00 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:
On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.


1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?

Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament.
But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.


So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL?
As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't).

I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there.
As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other.


You mentioned they didn't prepare as much and somehow linked it to the prizepool...if the prizepool doesn't have anything to do with it, maybe just don't mention it?

Help me out...how exactly did ESL refunnel money away from the koreans? I vaguely remember something like that, but nothing specific. Did they cancel a global event or something?
But even then it is totally understandable that ESL funnels money into their own circuit and not the global finals. ESL has to care that the international scene is alive, because the EU region specifically is probably where they make their money. So EU being more alive is much more important for the ESL than Korea.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3221 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-02 02:52:19
March 02 2022 02:52 GMT
#42
On March 02 2022 09:53 Balnazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2022 00:00 tigera6 wrote:
On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:
On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.


1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?

Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament.
But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.


So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL?
As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't).

I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there.
As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other.


You mentioned they didn't prepare as much and somehow linked it to the prizepool...if the prizepool doesn't have anything to do with it, maybe just don't mention it?

Help me out...how exactly did ESL refunnel money away from the koreans? I vaguely remember something like that, but nothing specific. Did they cancel a global event or something?
But even then it is totally understandable that ESL funnels money into their own circuit and not the global finals. ESL has to care that the international scene is alive, because the EU region specifically is probably where they make their money. So EU being more alive is much more important for the ESL than Korea.

I used Code S and Super Tournament as the example, not IEM. IEM should be the biggest tournament of the year, so even if the preparation is depending on the prizepool, it still means they should give their best on IEM.
The prizepool we are talking about is from IEM World Championship last year, where they cut it from 500k to 250k due to it being online. So in the 250k that they cut off, ESL re-distributed MOST of that into regional tournament where KR are not able to compete in. Like I said, global Finals is also run by ESL, not GSL, as part of the EPT.
And I find your point is quite hard to understand to be honest. So you think ESL boosting the prize pool of non-KR region for ONE year would really change the vitality or livelihood of the whole scene? Maybe they realized that didnt work and now they switching the entire EPT format in the coming season, I dont know how the new format will be better for the region, but we will see. But I think its more helpful if ESL can push Blizzard to get some new game balance coming out to keep it dynamic.

Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1102 Posts
March 02 2022 12:29 GMT
#43
On March 02 2022 11:52 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2022 09:53 Balnazza wrote:
On March 02 2022 00:00 tigera6 wrote:
On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:
On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.


1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?

Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament.
But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.


So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL?
As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't).

I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there.
As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other.


You mentioned they didn't prepare as much and somehow linked it to the prizepool...if the prizepool doesn't have anything to do with it, maybe just don't mention it?

Help me out...how exactly did ESL refunnel money away from the koreans? I vaguely remember something like that, but nothing specific. Did they cancel a global event or something?
But even then it is totally understandable that ESL funnels money into their own circuit and not the global finals. ESL has to care that the international scene is alive, because the EU region specifically is probably where they make their money. So EU being more alive is much more important for the ESL than Korea.

I used Code S and Super Tournament as the example, not IEM. IEM should be the biggest tournament of the year, so even if the preparation is depending on the prizepool, it still means they should give their best on IEM.
The prizepool we are talking about is from IEM World Championship last year, where they cut it from 500k to 250k due to it being online. So in the 250k that they cut off, ESL re-distributed MOST of that into regional tournament where KR are not able to compete in. Like I said, global Finals is also run by ESL, not GSL, as part of the EPT.
And I find your point is quite hard to understand to be honest. So you think ESL boosting the prize pool of non-KR region for ONE year would really change the vitality or livelihood of the whole scene? Maybe they realized that didnt work and now they switching the entire EPT format in the coming season, I dont know how the new format will be better for the region, but we will see. But I think its more helpful if ESL can push Blizzard to get some new game balance coming out to keep it dynamic.



I don't know about the inner workings of ESL, but maybe Blizzard pushed them to not sit on 250K for a whole year? Seems reasonable to me, that if you sponsor something, you want that money spent, not idling around (especially with the whole negative interests in Europe). So ESL had to put that money into something and they decided to boost their main region (EU) with it. Which is fine, because as I said, that is where they get their money from (or rather their viewers). As I said, ESL doesn't care about GSL and doesn't have to, either.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6805 Posts
March 03 2022 11:03 GMT
#44
On March 02 2022 11:52 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2022 09:53 Balnazza wrote:
On March 02 2022 00:00 tigera6 wrote:
On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:
On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:
On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.

That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting.


1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better?

Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament.
But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament.


So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL?
As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't).

I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there.
As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other.


You mentioned they didn't prepare as much and somehow linked it to the prizepool...if the prizepool doesn't have anything to do with it, maybe just don't mention it?

Help me out...how exactly did ESL refunnel money away from the koreans? I vaguely remember something like that, but nothing specific. Did they cancel a global event or something?
But even then it is totally understandable that ESL funnels money into their own circuit and not the global finals. ESL has to care that the international scene is alive, because the EU region specifically is probably where they make their money. So EU being more alive is much more important for the ESL than Korea.

I used Code S and Super Tournament as the example, not IEM. IEM should be the biggest tournament of the year, so even if the preparation is depending on the prizepool, it still means they should give their best on IEM.
The prizepool we are talking about is from IEM World Championship last year, where they cut it from 500k to 250k due to it being online. So in the 250k that they cut off, ESL re-distributed MOST of that into regional tournament where KR are not able to compete in. Like I said, global Finals is also run by ESL, not GSL, as part of the EPT.
And I find your point is quite hard to understand to be honest. So you think ESL boosting the prize pool of non-KR region for ONE year would really change the vitality or livelihood of the whole scene? Maybe they realized that didnt work and now they switching the entire EPT format in the coming season, I dont know how the new format will be better for the region, but we will see. But I think its more helpful if ESL can push Blizzard to get some new game balance coming out to keep it dynamic.



I'm not a 100% on this but pretty sure they made the "season finals" out of that money in which Koreans played as well and had more seats than anybody else.

ESL can't push Blizz to do anything. They are happy Blizz is still funding the prize pools. And there won't be any balance patches since nobody is working on SC2 anymore. Either we live with it or we leave.
I for one am happy that we will have another year of awesome Starcrafts ahead
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
UnLarva
Profile Joined March 2019
458 Posts
March 05 2022 04:36 GMT
#45
ENCE's crown jewel Joona. The team should really keep very good care on him. All that yesteryears turmoil within ENCE's CS:GO team - people burnouting, coming and going, and all - one guy watched it all aside, being like the mainstay, fulcrum, and the root for the whole team; Serral the Daddy. Egos may clash, aim may falter, crosshair can be too much right, and lack of utility may ruin a run.

That was never case with Serral. The Definition and the paramount of Esports professionalism. The goal was always there, clear, and openly declared. Serral should just buy his fair share of ENCE, in long run it would do only good for the franchise. He can provide some kind of stability... Lol.

Way he casually declared what is in his mind, and then just delivering:



EZ4ENCE!

Part-time Serralogist
UnLarva
Profile Joined March 2019
458 Posts
March 05 2022 05:09 GMT
#46
[image loading]


Photo credits were credits due. One of the most iconic Esports photos of all time.

The Catharsis of Confidence.
Part-time Serralogist
Curufinwe Feanor
Profile Joined August 2012
Brazil91 Posts
March 08 2022 12:55 GMT
#47
Wheres the recap???
Aure Entüluva
Curufinwe Feanor
Profile Joined August 2012
Brazil91 Posts
March 09 2022 13:23 GMT
#48
Wheres the recap, pleaaasee
Aure Entüluva
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33199 Posts
March 09 2022 21:01 GMT
#49
On March 09 2022 22:23 Curufinwe Feanor wrote:
Wheres the recap, pleaaasee


it's coming
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Curufinwe Feanor
Profile Joined August 2012
Brazil91 Posts
March 14 2022 11:35 GMT
#50
I get sooo sad when i come here and theres no recap yet...

I feel like Diego, from awkward puppets (if you dont know, search him on youtube)
Aure Entüluva
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6805 Posts
March 17 2022 10:14 GMT
#51
I think a recap of the biggest event of the year would be nice. What do you guys think?
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Curufinwe Feanor
Profile Joined August 2012
Brazil91 Posts
March 17 2022 11:23 GMT
#52
On March 17 2022 19:14 Harris1st wrote:
I think a recap of the biggest event of the year would be nice. What do you guys think?


I think the same... all the time... even when im sleeping
Aure Entüluva
UnLarva
Profile Joined March 2019
458 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-17 14:03:54
March 17 2022 13:51 GMT
#53
I've been waiting that recap like a next guy, but as someone in other (dedicated thread for "missing recap") thread pointed out I don't feel urgency to personally DEMAND it. Actually, I've been contemplating could there be any possibilities to write it by myself, the conclusion being clear: NO WAY!

Mainly for two reasons:

1. I'm hopelessly biased Serral-fanboi
2. My overall skills in English language aren't sufficient for the task

But also,

3. for severely lacking understanding of and at minimal level of SC2 tactics,
4. and generally very limited knowledge on the scene as a whole,

effectively prevent me to write such text that, I, such as next guy, his cat, GF, and Aunt would expect from this site, particularly when it seems not to be any kind problem to generously feature a rate C tournaments with their own threads, both before and after the World Championship Finals 2022. As some one poignantly observed, when the tournament "deserved" a separate thread for every single day and phase of it, one would expect that there would be also some kind of conclusion among those tournament relevant threads.

Sadly this one is the closest to "a recap" we have currently.

I don't know. It should not be too hard to just list few facts:

- Map/Match score
- Opponents and their level
- Long time rivalry with Reynor
- Breaking of milestone of Million Dollars of career winnings
- Fact that the tournament was first offline Premier tournament since Xel'naga knows when
- Other minor intangibles such as widespread pre-tournament coverage on Serral at TL.Net SC2 news site

What ever.
Part-time Serralogist
UnLarva
Profile Joined March 2019
458 Posts
March 17 2022 14:17 GMT
#54
@Azhrak of SC2.fi managed to write a recap in Finnish:

https://starcraft2.fi/forum/6379

Some lazy ass could just translate it with google translator, if Team Liquid collective cannot do any better than that.

GFS!
Part-time Serralogist
UnLarva
Profile Joined March 2019
458 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-17 14:46:52
March 17 2022 14:25 GMT
#55
YLE's (Finnish Broadcasting Corporation) Sports article on Serral's World Championship.

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-12335879

YLE broadcasted the tournament and The Finals in live.

https://areena.yle.fi/1-61842557



_______________

.
.
.
.
.
Part-time Serralogist
UnLarva
Profile Joined March 2019
458 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-03-17 17:57:53
March 17 2022 16:35 GMT
#56
Recap in Finnish (by Unlarva)

[image loading]
Nordic Bonjwa
Photo courtesy: YLE

ÄÄRIMOTITUS STARCRAFT II:SSA - SERRAL MAAILMANMESTARIKSI

Harvoin jos koskaan on missään urheilulajissa nähty keneltäkään yksilöurheilijalta yhtä suurta päättäväisyyttä ja määrätietoisuutta ennen lajin suurinta arvoturnausta. Harvoin jos koskaan urheilijan julkiset ulostulot ennen turnausta ovat olleet yhtä kylmän viileän toteavia kuin suomalaisen StarCraft II pelaajan, Joona "Serral" Sotalan lausunnot ennen Intel Extreme Masters Katowice 2022 turnausta. Tapa millä hän teki mitä sanoi ja mihin tähtäsi on äärimmäisen poikkeuksellista E-urheilussa, mutta myös urheilun saralla yleisemminkin.

Kenellekään SC2:ta seuraavalle ei ole enää ollut vuosiin epäselvää että Serral on yksi pelin suurimmista, taitavimmista, ja myös tasaisemmista pelaajista koskaan. Hän on myös se pelaaja, suuri pioneeri jonka harteilla lepää paljolti eurooppalaisen StarCraftin nousu ja läpimurto liki läpipääsemätöntä Korealaista hegemoniaa vastaan. Blizzcon-voitto vuodelta 2018 sinetöi Serralin paikan pelin pantheonissa ikiajoiksi. Tapa jolla hän dominoi tuona vuotena skeneä ei todennäköisesti koskaan tule toistumaan.

Serral osoitti jälleen kerran mikä on ero online ja offline -turnausten välillä, mitä tarkoittaa kun oikeasti mitellään mies miestä vastaan hengittäen samaa ilmaa samassa huoneessa. Pari vuotta koko peliä seuraava maailma on unelmoinut korona-rajoitusten purusta, samalla kun lajin suurimmat arvoturnaukset on pidetty etänä, internetin välityksellä. Online-turnausten arvo on kyseenalaistettu monesta syystä ja monella suulla, ei vähiten epätasapuolisten viiveiden ja vuorokaudenaikojen johdosta. Katowice 2022 vapautti meidät kaikki tästä spekulaatiosta. On täysin selvää kuka on nyt kukkulan kuningas.

Viimeiset online-koronavuodet Serral on suoriutunut kokonaisuudessaan mallikkaasti ottaen turnausvoittoja ja sijoittuen keskimäärin muutenkin hyvin, tosin joukkoon mahtuu myös muutama totaalinen huti - kuten hän itsekin on myöntänyt -, silti pysyen visusti maailman terävimmässä kärjessä. Tätä taustaa vastaan Serralin nyt saavuttama Maailmanmestaruus ei ole suuri yllätys. Pienenä yllätyksenä sen sijaan voidaan pitää sitä, että hän kykeni parantamaan kaikilla niillä osa-alueilla, joissa hänen suurimmat heikkoutensa ovat viime vuosina olleet, erityisesti ZvZ ja ZvZ a'la Reynor - hallitseva maailmanmestari Zerg ja Serralin pitkäaikainen Nemesis (ja hyvä ystävä).

Koskaan aikaisemmin ei olla nähty psykologisesti yhtä valmista, ehyttä, ja määrätietoista Joonaa kuin mitä nähtiin finaalissa Reynoria vastaan, tämä kaikki sen jälkeen kun hän oli piessyt pudotuspeleissä suvereenisti käytännössä pahimmat mahdolliset vastustajansa koko pelissä: Maru (Terran) 3-1, Rogue (Zerg) 3-0. Alkusarjassa (kartat 10-0) kaatui lisäksi Dark (Zerg) 2-0 ja useampi muu kansainvälinen huippunimi. Itse finaalissa Reynoria vastaan Serral kykeni kasaamaan itsensä, kirimään ja voittamaan tappioasemasta, eikä vähiten hänelle tilanne huomioiden äärimmäisen epätyypillisen drone-rush-juustoilun avustuksella.

Kun Serral meni noutamaan hyvin ansaittua pokaaliaan, oli koko tapahtumasarja ikäänkuin käsikirjoitettu aikapäiviä sitten. Aivan kuin maailmanjärjestys olisi palannut niille urille, joissa sen olisi pitänyt kulkea ilman pandemiaa ja päättymättömältä tuntuvaa online-tuonelaa. Serral tuli ja haki mikä Serralille kuului.

Riippumatta mitä sitten tapahtuu, ainakin hetken Serral on kiistämätön mestari, maailman paras Starcraft II -pelaaja. GG.

- Unlarva
Part-time Serralogist
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