|
On February 22 2022 21:54 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 10:19 honorablemacroterran wrote:On February 22 2022 09:14 Balnazza wrote:
As far as I can see, none of the players protested. They probably even knew in advance, just in case. Makes you wonder why they don't protest, huh? Maybe, just maybe, because they also see that there is no real alternative?
btw, in CS:GO, same rules apply for playoffs (every player that gets a positive test this week is out, so two positives in a team and they are out) and CS:GO HAS somewhat of a union, still they don't pressure this rule.
How are you on this crusade, when none of the people actually involved seem to care at all? just as a comparison: Most athletes in the Winter Olympics that just ended were extremly unhappy with the location (China). They also had some trouble with the Covid-regulations there. And still, basically no one dropped out. Why? Because for once, they need to play for the money, but maybe even more important they worked their asses off for four years to get to that tournament (and yes, some dreams just got crashed by Covid - shitty, but that happens sadly).
SC2 players worked a whole year to get to this event. And while there is a "chance" that they drop out with a positive test, you want them to drop out for sure.
And just on the off-chance players would complain on short notice and ESL had to accomodate them, give everyone the finger that attends the event to watch an empty stage and somehow manage to actually create the space for the players to play from their hotel rooms (in isolation...have fun) - why would they even consider putting up with that in the future? Obviously I don't know the numbers, but I can't imagine ESL is making the big bucks out of SC2 compared to CS:GO or some other ventures they have. So maybe the next offline tourney they cancel paid travel - hey, if you want to go on a strike one day before the event starts, you can atleast pay for your own travels, right? How do you know? Because I can see that none of them protested publicly, atleast not that I can find anything...
So what makes you think they would protest publicly, genius?
|
On February 22 2022 22:58 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 22:21 Charoisaur wrote:On February 22 2022 21:54 Balnazza wrote:On February 22 2022 10:19 honorablemacroterran wrote:On February 22 2022 09:14 Balnazza wrote:
As far as I can see, none of the players protested. They probably even knew in advance, just in case. Makes you wonder why they don't protest, huh? Maybe, just maybe, because they also see that there is no real alternative?
btw, in CS:GO, same rules apply for playoffs (every player that gets a positive test this week is out, so two positives in a team and they are out) and CS:GO HAS somewhat of a union, still they don't pressure this rule.
How are you on this crusade, when none of the people actually involved seem to care at all? just as a comparison: Most athletes in the Winter Olympics that just ended were extremly unhappy with the location (China). They also had some trouble with the Covid-regulations there. And still, basically no one dropped out. Why? Because for once, they need to play for the money, but maybe even more important they worked their asses off for four years to get to that tournament (and yes, some dreams just got crashed by Covid - shitty, but that happens sadly).
SC2 players worked a whole year to get to this event. And while there is a "chance" that they drop out with a positive test, you want them to drop out for sure.
And just on the off-chance players would complain on short notice and ESL had to accomodate them, give everyone the finger that attends the event to watch an empty stage and somehow manage to actually create the space for the players to play from their hotel rooms (in isolation...have fun) - why would they even consider putting up with that in the future? Obviously I don't know the numbers, but I can't imagine ESL is making the big bucks out of SC2 compared to CS:GO or some other ventures they have. So maybe the next offline tourney they cancel paid travel - hey, if you want to go on a strike one day before the event starts, you can atleast pay for your own travels, right? How do you know? Because I can see that none of them protested publicly, atleast not that I can find anything... On February 22 2022 10:33 JJH777 wrote:
I'm certain the players care. Them not protesting probably comes down to a few factors: they only found out on the 9th so not a lot of time to understand the full implications of this rule and react, they don't feel they have any say in it, and they likely have a "it won't happen or at least not to me" mentality like most people do about things of this nature. Hell, that seems to be the mentality ESL took about the worse case scenario of a bracket stage DQ since the only place it's been explained how that will be handled is a Reddit post. And I hope that mentality is proven right and my complaints were for nothing. I doubt it though.
I don't really consider spending a few minutes a few times a day writing a post to be a crusade but the reason I care is because I don't think the worst case scenario is that unlikely and it would ruin the event. That being a player who has already lost getting a COVID DQ related revival and winning the event. I want everyone to know that is a realistic possibility and I hope people would agree that would ruin the competitive integrity of the tournament. Unfortunately it seems most people don't care as you are pointing out. I'm guessing that if it actually comes to pass and especially if it happens to a fan favorite people will care a lot more and in that case I doubt these rules survive to the next offline ESL event.
I'd hope ESL wouldn't be that petty about players standing up for themselves but who knows. Regardless I still think it would be in their best interest, especially the ones who are about to go to military. Can you imagine Zest losing his final chance to make significant money on SC2 due to something outside of his control? A bunch of the KR players are at an age where this might be their last IEM before service. Well, the alternative is what happens in Tennis: If you can't attend your match, it is a defwin for your opponent, so the one you have beaten in the last round won't get your slot. Dunno if you like that more. But I 100% can understand why both players need to attend the stage in person. If one or even two players don't come on the stage, why bother doing it offline at all? Why didn't all of you speak up month ago and demanded an online tournament? Covid would be still a thing, that must have been clear to everyone. ESL doesn't need to be "petty", but they need to consider if they can plan events like this with reliable players. Again, if your players wouldn't be on the same page as you as ESL with the biggest offline event, why bother doing events like this at all? Do an offline tournament instead of online because you hope everyone will be able to play on stage? But I just don't get how anyone can think DQing players when they get infected is the preferrable or more fair choice compared to letting them play from a hotel room. We'll just have to see how it goes. If there are suddenly 10+ players infected they might revisit their stance on this. As Apollo mentioned, all rules are subject to change
35/36 players arrived safe and sound so far! Time coming later today:
https://twitter.com/eslsc2/status/1496088410716524549?s=21
|
On February 22 2022 23:05 honorablemacroterran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 21:54 Balnazza wrote:On February 22 2022 10:19 honorablemacroterran wrote:On February 22 2022 09:14 Balnazza wrote:
As far as I can see, none of the players protested. They probably even knew in advance, just in case. Makes you wonder why they don't protest, huh? Maybe, just maybe, because they also see that there is no real alternative?
btw, in CS:GO, same rules apply for playoffs (every player that gets a positive test this week is out, so two positives in a team and they are out) and CS:GO HAS somewhat of a union, still they don't pressure this rule.
How are you on this crusade, when none of the people actually involved seem to care at all? just as a comparison: Most athletes in the Winter Olympics that just ended were extremly unhappy with the location (China). They also had some trouble with the Covid-regulations there. And still, basically no one dropped out. Why? Because for once, they need to play for the money, but maybe even more important they worked their asses off for four years to get to that tournament (and yes, some dreams just got crashed by Covid - shitty, but that happens sadly).
SC2 players worked a whole year to get to this event. And while there is a "chance" that they drop out with a positive test, you want them to drop out for sure.
And just on the off-chance players would complain on short notice and ESL had to accomodate them, give everyone the finger that attends the event to watch an empty stage and somehow manage to actually create the space for the players to play from their hotel rooms (in isolation...have fun) - why would they even consider putting up with that in the future? Obviously I don't know the numbers, but I can't imagine ESL is making the big bucks out of SC2 compared to CS:GO or some other ventures they have. So maybe the next offline tourney they cancel paid travel - hey, if you want to go on a strike one day before the event starts, you can atleast pay for your own travels, right? How do you know? Because I can see that none of them protested publicly, atleast not that I can find anything... So what makes you think they would protest publicly, genius?
I'm just going to say that players are definitely not shy, at all, about expressing things they don't like in tournaments. We see that all the time in various tournaments.
On February 22 2022 22:57 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 22:21 Charoisaur wrote:On February 22 2022 21:54 Balnazza wrote:On February 22 2022 10:19 honorablemacroterran wrote:On February 22 2022 09:14 Balnazza wrote:
As far as I can see, none of the players protested. They probably even knew in advance, just in case. Makes you wonder why they don't protest, huh? Maybe, just maybe, because they also see that there is no real alternative?
btw, in CS:GO, same rules apply for playoffs (every player that gets a positive test this week is out, so two positives in a team and they are out) and CS:GO HAS somewhat of a union, still they don't pressure this rule.
How are you on this crusade, when none of the people actually involved seem to care at all? just as a comparison: Most athletes in the Winter Olympics that just ended were extremly unhappy with the location (China). They also had some trouble with the Covid-regulations there. And still, basically no one dropped out. Why? Because for once, they need to play for the money, but maybe even more important they worked their asses off for four years to get to that tournament (and yes, some dreams just got crashed by Covid - shitty, but that happens sadly).
SC2 players worked a whole year to get to this event. And while there is a "chance" that they drop out with a positive test, you want them to drop out for sure.
And just on the off-chance players would complain on short notice and ESL had to accomodate them, give everyone the finger that attends the event to watch an empty stage and somehow manage to actually create the space for the players to play from their hotel rooms (in isolation...have fun) - why would they even consider putting up with that in the future? Obviously I don't know the numbers, but I can't imagine ESL is making the big bucks out of SC2 compared to CS:GO or some other ventures they have. So maybe the next offline tourney they cancel paid travel - hey, if you want to go on a strike one day before the event starts, you can atleast pay for your own travels, right? How do you know? Because I can see that none of them protested publicly, atleast not that I can find anything... On February 22 2022 10:33 JJH777 wrote:
I'm certain the players care. Them not protesting probably comes down to a few factors: they only found out on the 9th so not a lot of time to understand the full implications of this rule and react, they don't feel they have any say in it, and they likely have a "it won't happen or at least not to me" mentality like most people do about things of this nature. Hell, that seems to be the mentality ESL took about the worse case scenario of a bracket stage DQ since the only place it's been explained how that will be handled is a Reddit post. And I hope that mentality is proven right and my complaints were for nothing. I doubt it though.
I don't really consider spending a few minutes a few times a day writing a post to be a crusade but the reason I care is because I don't think the worst case scenario is that unlikely and it would ruin the event. That being a player who has already lost getting a COVID DQ related revival and winning the event. I want everyone to know that is a realistic possibility and I hope people would agree that would ruin the competitive integrity of the tournament. Unfortunately it seems most people don't care as you are pointing out. I'm guessing that if it actually comes to pass and especially if it happens to a fan favorite people will care a lot more and in that case I doubt these rules survive to the next offline ESL event.
I'd hope ESL wouldn't be that petty about players standing up for themselves but who knows. Regardless I still think it would be in their best interest, especially the ones who are about to go to military. Can you imagine Zest losing his final chance to make significant money on SC2 due to something outside of his control? A bunch of the KR players are at an age where this might be their last IEM before service. Well, the alternative is what happens in Tennis: If you can't attend your match, it is a defwin for your opponent, so the one you have beaten in the last round won't get your slot. Dunno if you like that more. But I 100% can understand why both players need to attend the stage in person. If one or even two players don't come on the stage, why bother doing it offline at all? Why didn't all of you speak up month ago and demanded an online tournament? Covid would be still a thing, that must have been clear to everyone. ESL doesn't need to be "petty", but they need to consider if they can plan events like this with reliable players. Again, if your players wouldn't be on the same page as you as ESL with the biggest offline event, why bother doing events like this at all? Do an offline tournament instead of online because you hope everyone will be able to play on stage? But I just don't get how anyone can think DQing players when they get infected is the preferrable or more fair choice compared to letting them play from a hotel room. It’s a good failsafe, one I’d be in favour of. Katowice being offline and in person is a real high risk, high reward deal. If it goes smoothly, a real high stakes tournament, without ping, and some atmosphere will be a huge boost for those of us who’ve really missed having a true level field and that extra hype. It however we get even a few forced drop outs, there’ll be a huge asterisk over its competitive merits as the blue ribbon event, and it’ll really kill the hype for many of us. Playing from a hotel room with a camera isn’t too bad as bad options go. I was on the fence as to the wisdom of going online, the pandemic isn’t as over as some think, complicated by huge international variance. From what others have said Korea’s having a pretty hefty omicron wave and well, as Starcraft goes you couldn’t pick a worse nation for that to be happening.
I agree with this. ESL is taking a gamble. Obviously if ten players get disqualified they will have to change rules or there will be forever be a huge asterisk over the result (and less hype).
On the other hand, if there's only one more DQ or so, especially if they aren't heavy hitters, I think nobody will end up caring.
|
In any case, pointing out that someone else doesn't seem to be complaining isn't really an argument for why this makes sense. The people in the pro and casting scenes I've talked to about it have agreed that the idea of someone traveling to Katowice for the tournament just to be DQ'd because they got infected on the way there is pretty bad.
|
On February 23 2022 04:48 honorablemacroterran wrote:
In any case, pointing out that someone else doesn't seem to be complaining isn't really an argument for why this makes sense. The people in the pro and casting scenes I've talked to about it have agreed that the idea of someone traveling to Katowice for the tournament just to be DQ'd because they got infected on the way there is pretty bad.
So the person who joined TL a month ago is that connected in the scene? Awesome :O
|
So what hypothetically happens in the longshot scenario of both a person in the Ro8/4/Final and the loser from the previous round testing positive because they shared the same stage? How far do we reach back for a player? It just seems like in the rush to bring back the excitement of live offline events they haven't thought things through.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
