EPTBrood War would be a good starting point for sc3. Some kind of blending of the best ideas from both games might also work.
But we aren't getting sc3 xD
If SC3 happens, which units would you keep? - Page 2
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
Brood War would be a good starting point for sc3. Some kind of blending of the best ideas from both games might also work. But we aren't getting sc3 xD | ||
Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On September 03 2021 22:57 [PkF] Wire wrote: Just saw the results after a refresh, and I'm a bit surprised by some things. I think there is a heavy BW bias for some units, for instance I was astonished to see the muta get such a plebiscite and an overwhelming majority of yes for the lurker, while the reaper which is imo quite a well designed unit gets very little love. Anyway, very very interesting. I feel like there's a bias agaisnt new units in general. Right now the majority are removing every single LOTV and HOTS units, with the exception of lurker that everyone wants to keep (and is a BW unit obviously) I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but just an observation. I have a feeling as the pool goes on, we'll end up votting to remove essentially all unit except for Mutmut and lurker. | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On September 04 2021 00:02 Nakajin wrote: I feel like there's a bias agaisnt new units in general. Right now the majority are removing every single LOTV and HOTS units, with the exception of lurker that everyone wants to keep (and is a BW unit obviously) I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but just an observation. yeah I agree, Reaper hate is surprising its a very well designed unit. I'm also very surprised by the hate for the baneling. I think the baneling is a great unit. Its interactions with marines is one of the core elements that makes sc2 tvz so exciting to watch and play. Why would you get rid of it??? It has so many uses and it's one of those units that scales well with skill and exicution. Im shocked though that any one would want to keep the brood lord like wth. Glad to see we at least all agree that the swarmhost is a teribly desinged unit though | ||
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Vision_
877 Posts
On September 03 2021 23:44 BisuDagger wrote: I voted yes for the lurker. It's a great unit in Brood War. It's okay in SC2, but I see future in which the 80% of the units are change or modified in some way and that the pacing, style, and maps are different too. I don't see the poll saying SC3 is a SC2 clone, but you can choose what units stay and go. I think a well designed SC3 has a place where lurkers work and make sense. I may understand, so this vote should deserve a better description, as 'YES, with very few caracteristics modifications (cause option : with changes is mainly about 'design modifications') Is there another unit which can be revelant as lurkers in term of contradiction ? | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On September 04 2021 00:13 Vision_ wrote: I may understand, so this vote should deserve a better description, as 'YES, with very few caracteristics modifications (cause option : with changes is about 'design modifications') I would want changes. I'm not a fan of how lurker works in sc2, and tbh I'm not huge on it in sc1 either. for instance the strength of stacking lurkers on ramps has always bothered me. I would like a very diffrent lurker in an sc3. I think it would be realy cool if instead of an aoe unit it was more like a very strong mobile stealthed long range sunken collony. It only hits one target with no splash but does a huge amount of damage. Kind of like a ground liberator. I think this would be a much better role for the lurker as now its a counter unit to strong big ground units instead of a small ground unit shredder. I want banelings and a reworked lurker if we get sc3. not lurkers as zergs primary ground aoe. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On September 04 2021 00:08 washikie wrote: yeah I agree, Reaper hate is surprising its a very well designed unit. I'm also very surprised by the hate for the baneling. I think the baneling is a great unit. Its interactions with marines is one of the core elements that makes sc2 tvz so exciting to watch and play. Why would you get rid of it??? It has so many uses and is one of those units that scales well with skill and exicution. Im shocked though that any one would want to keep the brood lord like wth. Glad to see we at least all agree that the swarmhost is a teribly desinged unit though Hey I like the Swarmhost! Lots of micro and strategy going into using it and defending against it. I agree BL is stupid though | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On September 04 2021 00:08 washikie wrote: yeah I agree, Reaper hate is surprising its a very well designed unit. I'm also very surprised by the hate for the baneling. I think the baneling is a great unit. Its interactions with marines is one of the core elements that makes sc2 tvz so exciting to watch and play. Why would you get rid of it??? It has so many uses and it's one of those units that scales well with skill and exicution. Im shocked though that any one would want to keep the brood lord like wth. Glad to see we at least all agree that the swarmhost is a teribly desinged unit though yeah I do love the baneling as well and it indeed interacts amazingly with marines, but I can get how difficult it can be to balance the game around an unit which is so supply efficient. Just out of curiosity because I really think this is an important point in such a discussion : | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On September 04 2021 00:25 [PkF] Wire wrote: yeah I do love the baneling as well and it indeed interacts amazingly with marines, but I can get how difficult it can be to balance the game around an unit which is so supply efficient. Just out of curiosity because I really think this is an important point in such a discussion : I would most certainly not keep warpgate. For warpgate to be ballanced all toss gateway units have to be kind of terrible outside of specific timings where you can overwelm with them by abusing the warpgate mechanic. To me Starcraft brood war protoss is just so much cooler than starcraft 2 protoss and a big part of that is the strenght of individual gateway protoss units in brood war compared to sc2. If we did have to keep it I would want something like warpgate takes twice as long as regular gateways to produce units, that way you could make it for its utility or for one offensive warpin, but most of the time you are using gateways to macro. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19387 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3561 Posts
Less spellcasting overall would be great too. Like ok blink for stalker why not, but adept should go, blink dt, teleporting bc etc as well. There are just too many spells spread out over the units. Less air ships: no need for void ray and carriers and tempest, pick one (carrier?), No liberator either, no Oracle (at least no with the ability to erase a mineral line that fast) Edit: also high ground advantage as said above. Maybe also lower dps over the board so battles last a bit longer (allows more micro/flanking) | ||
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Vision_
877 Posts
Don t you like my swarmy ? awesome range  PS : i removed my graphic card  | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8323 Posts
 For reals though, banelings have consistently provided some of the most fun moments in SC2 over the last 10 years. I've always considered them the best new unit. I'm also surprised people would keep the viking. I consider that to be a fairly boring unit. | ||
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Legan
Finland597 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Also in retrospective, "maybe with some changes" should have said "yes with some changes". Maybe I'll put a note in the OP. I think the warp gate discussion deserves its own thread honestly, alongside inject, mule, chronoboost and not be buried in a comment. For what is worth i like warpage, but building time should definitely be higher. Maybe warp gate reduces building time from normal gateways by like 10% let's your warp units from warpgates at a 20% increased cooldown (Stalkers would have a cool down of 37 seconds instead of 30 for example). I'm surprised people don't like adepts, I think with some tweaks they could be a cool unit. Also surprised people don't like tempests. I remember when they were announced they were supposed to be short range, area damage units that would just wreck mutas. Watching that video was the happiest day of my life. Then they changed them to have 15 range, with an upgrade to have 22(!!!) Range, which was crazy. And finally their current state, having I think 10 range against ground and 14 against air (which is super confusing btw because the range indicator they have is for the air, so they always get much closer than what you'd think when attacking ground). Still, I really like them. They are situational but it's good that Protoss has an actual siege unit, specially with the damage to building upgrades, that's not very good at direct engages. I think it's an interesting unit. Finally surprised people like the immortal. I personally love how it looks, but I think it needs some tweaks. Also, could we remove the terrible animation it has for its barrier now and put the old visual back in? The new animation just puts a weird white thing on his arms, while the previous one was a badass spherical shield made out of hexagons that reacted to where the attacks were coming from. Just look at how bad ass this looks Hell, in general the new barrier is kind of shitty. Makes immortals better vs units like marines, baenlings and other fast units, and its literally useless agaisnt tanks since it activates after receiving damage, so the immortal gets 70 damage, and then it is active for 2 seconds and absords the damage, but the siege tank atacks every 2.17 seconds, which means the second shot happens after barriers expired, dealing full damage. And the barrier has a 32 (!!) second cooldown. It's kind of a lame design honestly. | ||
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Azhrak
Finland1198 Posts
Others could be tweaked if not remowed. But naturally I would be the most interested in the NEW units SC3 could offer. I don't want an SC:BW remake, or SC2++, but a fresh new game. Sadly I seriously doubt SC3 ever sees the light of day. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Monochromatic
United States1000 Posts
On September 04 2021 00:08 washikie wrote: yeah I agree, Reaper hate is surprising its a very well designed unit. I'm also very surprised by the hate for the baneling. I think the baneling is a great unit. Its interactions with marines is one of the core elements that makes sc2 tvz so exciting to watch and play. Why would you get rid of it??? It has so many uses and it's one of those units that scales well with skill and exicution. Im shocked though that any one would want to keep the brood lord like wth. Glad to see we at least all agree that the swarmhost is a teribly desinged unit though I dislike the reaper since it does nothing past the early game except suicide scout. Hellions have the exact same problem. Contrast this to the oracle, which is also a powerful early game harasser. Oracles have revelation, so you're strongly incentivized to keep at least one throughout the rest of the game. I'm surprised oracles are so disliked, I think they're a great design. The baneling is like a disruptor: it either wins you games or you get nothing from them. The baneling coming so early is the reason why roach/hydra go unused in sc2. The sheer power banelings provide means other midgame options have to be weak to compensate. I'm surprised to see roach so hated. I think providing a choice between a generalist ground/air attacker and a slightly stronger ground only attacker is a great design decision. Ravens are a unit that just got designed out of the game. They're next to useless outside of TvT - I don't know what people see in them. | ||
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