Thanks to our friends at ESL and Shopify, TLMC will continue to be the primary pipeline for new maps in competitive StarCraft II. Blizzard are continuing their commitment to TLMC as well, doing QA for maps and making sure they are ladder-ready.
Now that Shopify and TLO are on board, it seems appropriate to test the map-making community's creativity. TLMC #15 features a creative/freestyle category which challenges map-makers to push the boundaries of competitive map design. Also, we are looking to shake things up in a big way and reintroduce maps with three or more starting positions.
*The tournament schedule and prize pool have been adjusted according to the June 2nd update from ESL.
Changelog
Submissions have been reduced to 5 maps per map-maker.
Instead of giving map-makers a specific feature to focus on, we've added a "Freestyle" category (similar to the "New" category from previous TLMC's). We want to give map-makers a much broader canvas to express themselves on.
Reintroducing maps with three or more starting positions: ESL is interested in reintroducing maps with 3+ starting positions to the competitive 1v1 map pool, and a concerted effort will be made to include such maps among the sixteen finalists. The four "Judges' Picks" will EXPLICITLY be reserved for such maps.
Inhibitor Zone Generator and Accelerator Zone Generator can now be used in all categories. Use these features carefully, to ensure that they are consistent with the intent of the specific category and synergize with overall gameplay.
Reminder: We are keeping the reduced "Average rush distance" and "Playable map dimensions" values from TLMC #14. Over the last few contests, we've noticed a trend toward larger maps. We still feel there is plenty of potential for high-quality maps to be created on the 'small' side of the spectrum, and have kept the reduced values from the previous TLMC. Ultimately, these are just suggested values, and it's up to each individual map-maker to decide what map size fits their vision best.
Easing Restrictions
Maps With Three or More Starting Positions
While maps with three or more starting positions were not technically banned in previous contests, TLMC judges typically adhered to the norms of the competitive scene and focused solely on two-player maps. This resulted in what was effectively a 'soft-ban' on non-two-player maps.
ESL is interested in reintroducing maps with 3+ starting positions to competitive 1v1 play. In order to encourage map-makers to submit such maps, we will be using all four "Judges Picks" (read "How to Submit Maps" below for more details) to include these maps among the sixteen finalists. Maps with 3+ starting positions can be submitted to ANY of the four categories: Macro, Rush, Standard, and Freestyle.
Up to Five Levels of Terrain Height Allowed
One of the latest features yet to see light on TLMC is the newly expanded Terrain Height. Because of implementation and gameplay limitations, map-makers will be limited to five pathable terrain levels. Depending on how map-makers make use of this new feature, future contests may see the number allowed terrain levels increase. In TLMC #15, this feature will be limited to the new Freestyle category.
Categories
Freestyle
Guidelines: Maps in this category explore new ideas for how StarCraft II can be played. This category is intended for unorthodox, outside-the-box maps.
Examples of features that might be included in this category:
Heavy or atypical usage of backdoor entrances with Mineral Walls/Reduced Mineral Patches.
Usage of Vespene Geysers as potential gates.
Inhibitor and Accelerator Zones.
Non-standard numbers of Mineral nodes or Vespene geysers at bases (Restriction: Values of each individual resource node cannot be adjusted)
Other strongly non-standard map designs.
Playable map dimensions guidelines (not full map dimensions): Map playable area should be approximately between 14,000 and 18,000. (Note: Not a hard restriction)
Guidelines: Map favors early aggression and offensive play.
Average rush distance (main ramp to main ramp): 33 seconds or less. (Note: Not a hard restriction. Could be more or less)
Playable map dimensions guidelines (not full map dimensions): Map playable area should be approximately between 14,000 and 16,000. (Note: Not a hard restriction. Could be more or less)
Guidelines: Medium sized map. Players tend to have more flexibility on these maps to open with a wider variety of strategies and/or builds.
Average rush distance (main ramp to main ramp): 33-38 seconds. (Note: Not a hard restriction. Could be more or less)
Playable map dimensions guidelines (not full map dimensions): Map playable area should be approximately between 15,000 and 17,000. (Note: Not a hard restriction. Could be more or less)
Guidelines: A map that favors defensive play and encourages players to reach end game unit compositions.
Average rush distance (main ramp to main ramp): 38-43 seconds. (Note: Not a hard restriction. Could be more or less)
Playable map dimensions (not full map dimensions): Map playable area should be approximately between 16,000 and 18,000. (Note: Not a hard restriction. Could be more or less)
Maps can be submitted to one category only. Maps cannot be submitted to multiple categories.
No custom textures or Force Fields.
No custom data on maps.
The restriction on Renegade Missile Turrets remains, and this feature cannot be utilized for this contest.
Notes and Suggestions
Since the size of maps have been increasing over time, we’ve tried to re-adjust the “average rush distance” and the “playable map dimensions” values for the different categories to encourage smaller map sizes during this submission period.
The average rush distance and playable map dimensions are guidelines and not strict restrictions. For example, large maps that play out aggressively or small maps that promote long games will still be considered using the same criteria as the other maps in the category.
In a previous contest, when we introduced the Renegade Missile Turret map feature, we received many maps that utilized the structure in large numbers. We want to let map-makers know that maps or submissions aren’t required to utilize a high number of map features. Maps will be judged based on how well map features are used and how much they add to the map rather than how many are used.
We’d like to remind submitters that edge map distance has been steadily decreasing over the last TLMC’s, and this is a strong point of contention, it is recommended for maps to have a modicum of air space between playable ground areas and map’s edges.
Overlord high ground scout positions over naturals have become more popular in recent maps. We want to remind everyone that while these spots are still acceptable, they are not required, and we’d like to see a greater variety in how they’re placed.
When deciding to utilize a gold base, make sure there is some sort of risk associated with them. Otherwise, gold mineral bases with low risk tend to usually favor Zerg over the other races.
Be careful when adjusting the number of mineral nodes, vespene geysers, or rich vespene geysers at bases, especially in the main and natural, as it could impact balance between races and/or matchups.
When using air pathing blockers, avoid setting up zones that trap air units within them.
During the iteration phase of the competition (more on this below), small changes are often more desirable than large radical changes that dramatically alter the map’s direction.
Post contest map iteration
We want to give the map-makers an opportunity to edit their maps after the contest period to make any adjustments if necessary. Hopefully this will give the map-makers more control and a chance to make improvements based on any feedback from ESL, Blizzard, pro players, or the community at large.
After the contest, map-makers will be contacted by ESL in order to make improvements and get their maps into a ladder-ready state before each ladder season. For instance, map-makers can make small adjustments to the maps such as changes to Reaper ramps. Results from our performance tests will also be made available to map-makers who can use those results to improve performance.
Tournament Phase
Note: The default timezone for TLMC is Pacific Standard Time (PST). While countdowns and specific times will be converted to your local timezone PST will be used whenever we "just" use dates in posts. For example: the end of submissions is June 21st. So the deadline is June 21st at 11:59 PM PST.
Submission Phase
May 21st to June 21st
Pre-Judging Feedback As with last season, we are giving map-makers more opportunity to get feedback from judges with the intent to allow for potential issues to be ironed out prior to judging. All maps that are submitted on or before the June 7th will be reviewed by members of the judging panel and feedback provided ASAP. Please keep in mind that maps with positive feedback or have had issues fixed as a result of this review process are not guaranteed to be selected for the Top 16.
TLnet Judging Phase
June 22nd to June 27th
Once the maps have been submitted they will be checked for quality and the remaining maps will be passed to representatives from the Team Liquid Strategy team and selected professional players/community figures for judging. If you are a professional player and would be interested in helping out, PM us. Together, the judges will trim down all submissions to a final 16 that will be used in the next stages of the contest.
Note: All submissions are anonymized before being sent on to the judges. Only the two main admins of the contest have access to who the submitters are.
Tournament & Public Voting Phase
July 5th - July 11th
Finally, the public will then vote on the final versions of these maps. Note that public voting only determines the final placing of these maps, that is how much money each map-maker wins. It does not directly affect which maps will be chosen to appear in the next season of ladder play. However, this is your chance to make your voice heard about which maps YOU want to be on the ladder.
In addition, the public voting phase will now run parallel with the tournament phase, in order to accelerate the schedule for maps to receive ladder approval. The tournament phase is extremely important both for map-makers and for voters. It allows everyone to see the maps being played by some of the best players in the world. We will work together with Wardi again for the tournament. Details will be announced separately at a later date.
Iteration Phase
July 11th - July 19th
The iteration phase has become a vital part for map-makers in TLMC. It gives them a chance to fix smaller issues that they may have caught during the tournament phase. Note that smaller fixes are often better than huge changes.
Last contest we introduced a finalists posts with more information about each map, which was well received. We will continue with the same format for TLMC #15. map-makers who make the top 16 will be given the opportunity to submit extra screenshots and link to YouTube or Twitch VODs of their map being played. We will also be collecting information about what they've changed and will mention the changes in the voting post. All this information will be sent out in a PM to the 16 finalists after the tournament phase.
TLMC Winners Announced
Shortly after the conclusion of the voting phase, we will present the final standings. After this, all sixteen maps will be considered for inclusion in the upcoming ladder seasons. After a rigorous QA session, the new maps will be officially announced ahead of the new ladder season.
Prize Distribution
Provided by Shopify
Thanks to Shopify and ESL, the prize pool has been increased from TLMC #14.
First - $800 Second - $500 Third - $250 Fourth - $150 Fifth - $100
In keeping with the most recent TLMC contests, map-makers will also receive $200 in bonus prize money for each map that finishes in the top sixteen.
And as always, all sixteen finalists will receive a Community Commander Portrait. Once you have qualified for the top 16, please message the contest admin if you do not already have the portrait.
How To Submit Maps
Submission Rules
Each individual map MUST be assigned to one category. DO NOT submit the same map to multiple categories.
Map-makers will be limited to five(5) map submissions each, with a limit of two maps per category. For example, you may submit two maps in two categories, one map in a third category, and none in the remaining category.
For this contest, the judges will pick sixteen(16) finalist maps to move on to the next stage:
Three(3) Standard Maps
Three(3) Macro Maps
Three(3) Rush Maps
Three (3) "New" Maps
Four(4) "Judges' Picks" - *TLMC#15 change: Reserved for maps with 3+ starting positions*
Judges may reassign a map to a more appropriate category at their discretion.
Unlike previous contests, Judges’ Picks in TLMC #15 will be explicitly reserved for maps with three or more starting positions. The four Judges' Pick maps will be selected through a combination of overall map scoring and discretion of the judges' panel. Judges' Picks will be made regardless of category, and consist of the maps deemed most deserving of finishing in the top 16.
Please PM your map file(s) to TL Map Contest with the below format by June 21st. Please title your PMs with the name of the map and keep all submissions to one map per PM. We'll once again be asking map-makers to submit more detailed information about their maps to ensure neither the judges nor the community misses any key features. Once your map has been received you will receive a PM back confirming that we have received it. If you have not received a reply within 24 hours, please contact us directly. We may also PM you back requesting missing information. Your entry has not officially been confirmed until any issues with the submission have been resolved.
If you want to submit a revised map for the contest before the end of submissions, please send us a reply in the original PM chain on TLnet. This to ensure there are no mixups in the submission process.
The map file has to contain:
A short gameplay description. There is a field for it with a limit of 300 chars. Suggestion for what to include in this field can be seen in TLMC #12's finalists announcement. This description will be used in the announcement of the top 16 maps!
The PM has to contain:
Map Name
A picture of your map. Please submit your maps with a standard 90° top down overview' do not use any angled or tilted images. Please mark start locations and describe any starting location constraints.
The size (dimensions) of the map
The map category you wish to enter with this map.
A description of the map.
List and describe any distinctive features of the map.
Point out any alternate resource or rock usage on the map. Describe why you chose to use non-standard numbers.
Main to Main distance: (in-game seconds using a worker from town hall to town hall)
Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance: (in-game seconds using a worker)
Natural to Natural distance: (in-game seconds using a worker from town hall to town hall)
Any relevant analyzer images (optional)
A download link to your map
Entries not in this format may be excluded from consideration. Please do not send questions to the 'TL Map Contest' account; contact TLMC admin Waxangel instead.
Q: Do I need to send my map file, or will an image or a link to my map on Battle.net be enough? We want the map file for this contest, so a link to Battle.net is not sufficient. There will be a huge number of maps to choose from, so we will need to open many of them up in order to check for details that we can't find otherwise. To send your maps, upload them to a file hosting service such as Mediafire or Dropbox and include the link in your entry.
Q: How do I attach a map file or image to a PM? The TeamLiquid PM system does not support attachments. Instead, use an external image/file hoster such as Mediafire, Dropbox or Google drive for map files or Imgur for image files. Please sent those links along with your submission.
Q: Can I enter a team map/FFA map into the contest? Sorry, we will not be accepting non-1v1 maps in this contest. In the past, the Team Liquid Map Contest has occasionally allowed team play maps to be entered and evaluated separately from 1v1 maps, and some of these submissions did eventually reach the ladder map pool. However, we are focusing on only 1v1 maps for this contest. While we hope to hold a team map contest in the future, we cannot guarantee one at this time.
Q: Will the first place map automatically be included in tournaments? No. A list of top maps will be considered by ESL for use in tournaments and ladder.
Q: Will any of the maps outside of the top 16 be included in tournaments? While there is a very small chance for this to happen, it’s not to be seen as commonplace.
Q: How crazy can my maps be? Maps need to be ladder appropriate. This means that features requiring specialist knowledge (rising lava, geysers used to block ramps, etc.) will not be accepted. If your map passes that test and complies with the guidelines above then your map is acceptable! Of course, if you are concerned that your map may not be suitable for ladder then please PM us and we will tell you whether or not it is appropriate.
Q: I’m interested in the contest, but I’m horrible at map making. What can I do to support the map-makers? Post in their map threads and give them support, encouragement, and replays on their maps! Giving your favorite map-maker support will be much appreciated by the map-maker. Replays are especially valuable as it helps the map-maker align their design goals with the map with the reality of how people play their map.
If you have any unanswered questions please do not hesitate to ask them below or PM us who will be happy to answer them. Best of luck in the competition.
For any Mapmaker, which might have questions, just go ahead and ask freely here in the thread or PM me or Waxangel!
I'll probably edit this comment as people inquire on questions be it here, or in the Mapmaker's Discord server, so these whom are not there already, keep an eye out here ^^!
Yes! They are allowed and the Judges Picks maps do count in favor of these type of maps (they count as multi spawn maps, just like normal 3p, 4p ones)
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- Can we get clarification about the chart saying "5 Levels of Terrain Height"? Does this mean that 4 levels are okay for other categories?
It is 5 pathable levels
Standard maps have 3 pathable levels, maps which fall outside the Freestyle category ought not use more than the 3 "standard" pathable terrain levels
Hope this clears it out!
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- Is using collapsible rock towers to destroy geysers/minerals/Xel'naga Towers allowed?
Currently it isn't (sadly)
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- Are unusual resource amounts at bases allowed? Imagine a main with two ramps, one leading to a 'pocket' expansion of sorts that is very easy to defend but only has 1 vespene geyser (and has an opening to a third though reduced mineral patches or destructible rocks), and one standard expansion that is fairly close on rush distance => riskier to take but allows for more aggressive play?
Yes, submitters are allowed to use different amount of Mineral Nodes or Vespene Geysers per base, but they are not allowed to change the specific amount of resources each individual node has (with the exception of Reduced Mineral Nodes, which are intended to be used exclusively as Walls)
That said, given the highly competitive nature of StarCraft, and how much of a pin needle the game's balance rests upon, the judging panel might not see with kind eyes to have maps which strongly alter the "accepted amount" of resources per base when it comes to the Main, Natural or Third bases, there are exceptions to this of course such as Neon Violet Square which had a half base as a optional "backdoor" Third.
But at the end of the day, this is left to the mapper's judgement/execution
This is an unofficial compilation of all TLMC15 submissions which have been listed in this thread or otherwise publicly announced. It is non-exhaustive as people may choose not to make their submissions known publicly. Please message me if there are any errors/omissions with the list.
I'm bit sad that the multi-level is only for freestyle. Simple things like having main and natural one level higher, while other parts use the normal 3 layers, don't really feel like enough reason to call the map unorthodox. Well time to rework some maps.
On May 22 2021 02:00 Legan wrote: Can we get clarification about the chart saying "5 Levels of Terrain Height"? Does this mean that 4 levels are okay for other categories?
It is 5 pathable levels
Standard maps have 3 pathable levels, maps which fall outside the Freestyle category ought not use more than the 3 "standard" pathable terrain levels
On May 22 2021 02:00 Legan wrote: Can we get clarification about the chart saying "5 Levels of Terrain Height"? Does this mean that 4 levels are okay for other categories?
It is 5 pathable levels
Standard maps have 3 pathable levels, maps which fall outside the Freestyle category ought not use more than the 3 "standard" pathable terrain levels
I did have a very weird 3 player map that would fit the description of freestyle, but I felt like it would be too spicy for the judges tastes and it probably wouldn't score very well. So I went with the safer option.
I did have a very weird 3 player map that would fit the description of freestyle, but I felt like it would be too spicy for the judges tastes and it probably wouldn't score very well. So I went with the safer option.
Maps look very nice! Same Character that’s doing BW map making?
I did have a very weird 3 player map that would fit the description of freestyle, but I felt like it would be too spicy for the judges tastes and it probably wouldn't score very well. So I went with the safer option.
cool, they look nice.
Speaking as a layman (not judge), just want to ask if electric avenue is a rush map? It seems the path from triangular third to either opposite linear or triangular third would be close / direct, but natural to natural is not that close, may be if metrics (such as time from natural to natural) is provided, it might be easier to look at?
Recycle your old 4p maps by opening them in the map editor, enable the 2p rotational symmetry tool, turn 2 of the 4 spawns into gold mineral, rich vespene geysers islands and remove the spawn positions there. Boom, done, your old 4p map is now a cool and creative rotationnal symmetry 2p map with the feel of a 4p map
Add some speed zones in the middle if your former 4p map was too big to have a 2p map's rush distance
Maps look very nice! Same Character that’s doing BW map making?
The very same.
cool, they look nice.
Speaking as a layman (not judge), just want to ask if electric avenue is a rush map? It seems the path from triangular third to either opposite linear or triangular third would be close / direct, but natural to natural is not that close, may be if metrics (such as time from natural to natural) is provided, it might be easier to look at?
The freestyle map looks very interesting.
Me no expert, so not checking specifics facepalm.
keep up the good work
Electric Avenue is definitely a rush map, as it's very small in terms of the area. I tried to make the paths less direct and as it turns out the worker pathing is a little wonky because sometimes they'll go the long way, but the rush distance and size still falls within the rush category either way.
and the wonky 3player map I was talking about is this wip one which I'm still deciding whether or not to finish and submit because it totally checks some boxes for the freestyle category but it might just be trashed as a submission.
Are unusual resource amounts at bases allowed? Imagine a main with two ramps, one leading to a 'pocket' expansion of sorts that is very easy to defend but only has 1 vespene geyser (and has an opening to a third though reduced mineral patches or destructible rocks), and one standard expansion that is fairly close on rush distance => riskier to take but allows for more aggressive play?
goals: - different BOs depending on matchup, and - playing entirely different based on one of your very first choices - expand direction (safe vs aggressive)
On May 22 2021 19:00 rextor92 wrote: Are unusual resource amounts at bases allowed?
Would be weird if it wasn't since gold bases, rich geysers and mineral walls are a thing already. Players and viewers are well accustomed to unorthodox pools of ressources that have an impact on your build order if accessed early
On May 22 2021 19:00 rextor92 wrote: Are unusual resource amounts at bases allowed?
You can vary the amount of mineral batches and geysers bases have. For example 1 rich geyser and 6 mineral batches is quite common idea. However, you can't change how much resources a mineral batch or geyser has. You are only allowed to change mineral values of units called "Mineral field (450)", that are meant for mineral walls.
On May 22 2021 19:00 rextor92 wrote: Are unusual resource amounts at bases allowed? Imagine a main with two ramps, one leading to a 'pocket' expansion of sorts that is very easy to defend but only has 1 vespene geyser (and has an opening to a third though reduced mineral patches or destructible rocks), and one standard expansion that is fairly close on rush distance => riskier to take but allows for more aggressive play?
goals: - different BOs depending on matchup, and - playing entirely different based on one of your very first choices - expand direction (safe vs aggressive)
Yes, submitters are allowed to use different amount of Mineral Nodes or Vespene Geysers per base, but they are not allowed to change the specific amount of resources each individual node has (with the exception of Reduced Mineral Nodes, which are intended to be used exclusively as Walls)
That said, given the highly competitive nature of StarCraft, and how much of a pin needle the game's balance rests upon, the judging panel might not see with kind eyes to have maps which strongly alter the "accepted amount" of resources per base when it comes to the Main, Natural or Third bases, there are exceptions to this of course such as Neon Violet Square which had a half base as a optional "backdoor" Third.
But at the end of the day, this is left to the mapper's judgement/execution
I just wanted to say that I love this 3-player map. It's unique and different. I'm not sure how it plays or how well balanced it is, but it sure is unique.
On May 23 2021 09:52 MiloOnFire wrote: Here's my list of submissions. I might change them in a couple of days to make them more diverse, but I personally really like those picks.
For future punk, I feel like that is more freestyle map than standard map. I would put it as a rush map if the natural to natural path is not so convoluted. If a player try to take expansions linearly, the gold expansion would be the (natural) forth, even though the gold base is very wide.
Either 3rd location look is a bit wide / difficult for turtling, (which may be intentional?), so it probably favour early(ier) attack, that probably point toward rush. The expansion at the far side have purple gas, which probably favour teching on paper, but how would one take the purple gas base while defending the natural /3rd (against the opponent who is taking the gold, assuming one is expanding the gold and the other is expanding away from the gold) is something I have not got a clue on. I feel this map is going to be an unorthodox rather than standard because the player would likely to try sneak the expansion at gold / purple gas rather than doing standard.
Biogenesis seems to be interesting as well, feel like the map is saying "go west if you go ground, go east if you go air" kind of feel, would be interesting to see how it play out.
On May 23 2021 16:31 depressed1 wrote: Freestyle. Minor Forest. 144x144 + Show Spoiler +
Some feedback:
Use different texturing on each level. Where you are at map should be instantly recognizable to players. Also helps greatly when people just have an overview of the map.
It is good to have small pockets in mineral lines so that workers can stack against run bys. This is mostly important to main, natural, and thirds.
Also some of your mineral lines prevent defender engaging against drops that are behind mineral lines as there is four or more batches in row. This is especially at the middle most base. There can also be small 1 tile gaps that I'm just not spotting.
Map also splits badly at middle as there is really only one path through it. The side path only helps to attack against 6-8th bases, maybe 5th a bit, but the path is very long and you are forced to retreat the same way.
There is also quite clear issue of some places being really open and some really choked. This is quite common issue with beginners as you figure out size of things over time.
Some bases and geysers seem to block the army movement some what on the bases next to the edge of map.
You may be using the bounds wrongly as overview shows some black spots next to the border. You should use the playable bounds and not the full bounds. Area beyond the playable bounds is for decorations only so that camera doesn't show just darkness outside of the map.
Size of the map is big by today's standards.
This thread isn't probably the best place for getting further feedback. You should try the discord linked by Kantuva or Work In Progress Melee Maps thread in Custom Maps forum.
My submissions for now. I may replace Karelides if it isn't unorthodox enough for the category. All maps should be uploaded to EUs, NAs and KRs servers.
Description: Big macro focused map with middle that allows early direct movement cross the map but forces players to top or bottom part when attacking bases on the edge of the map.
Description: Natural being in the corner allows main to have long defensive cliff that over looks natural's choke and linear third is locate where natural usually is. After the third layout follows rake layout. After 4-5th bases further expansions are much further away.
Description: Bigger standard map with bit longer rush path, but more direct attack paths between thirds when player chose different expansion patterns. Map also has two more forward bases 7th and 8th that make controlling central high ground more important.
Description: Smaller aggressive map, where the rush path has small ramp that creates good defensive point as games goes on. To avoid the ramp armies can go along the horizontal edge or destroy rocks to double size of another ramp closer the small ramp.
Description: The map is divided horizontally by high ground. From the high ground towards sides there is two lower grounds that make map have / like cut through.The layout generally creates situation where players have to go over the middle high ground to access other side of the map.
Also made this small (124x124) 4 player map using guidelines of rush category but it is most likely too small and imbalanced. So I dropped it out of submissions. + Show Spoiler [I.M.B.A Station (Rush)] +
On May 28 2021 07:47 IIEclipseII wrote: could someone in charge specifiy which "custom" data is not allowed? Because I already saw maps with imported ground textures.
for example would be a similar mechanic to the Xel'Naga Watcher Tower be allowed but with different properties?
According to the post custom textures aren't allowed and a new type of Xel'naga tower is definitely not allowed.
On May 23 2021 09:52 MiloOnFire wrote: Here's my list of submissions. I might change them in a couple of days to make them more diverse, but I personally really like those picks.
Alright so after a massive setback with losing my data and what not, I finally regained motivation to finish working on my maps and submit them. so here they are!
note: Due to how I design maps, I design in the idea of standard. Rush distance tends to be a meme among my maps. In the case for some of them, the rush distance is that of a rush map. But the map has a dense base-density and solid defensibility. I.E Timeless Wild. In the case of Promanus Grounds I'm trying todo a dreamcatcher styled rush map, where its relatively standard with a quick rush distance. hence debris towers you can destroy to make it temporarily more peaceful. Hope this clears up the scratching of heads with how strange the map placing are in terms of size. because boy did it confuse and mildly annoy me, but these are the best maps I have to offer.
Does opening the map pool up to 3-4-+ player maps mean we could see 2 linear thirds becoming a thing again? Seems to be a staple of BW with Fighting Spirit, La Mancha, etc. but not sure if there's a need in LotV specifically to have a third be in front of your main
Either way more start positions + more weird shit allowed in the requirements = 10/10 map contest
On May 31 2021 09:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Does opening the map pool up to 3-4-+ player maps mean we could see 2 linear thirds becoming a thing again? Seems to be a staple of BW with Fighting Spirit, La Mancha, etc. but not sure if there's a need in LotV specifically to have a third be in front of your main
Either way more start positions + more weird shit allowed in the requirements = 10/10 map contest
Agree, I don't mind the increase in start positions at all. I think it was limited to 2 at an era in SC2 that is way bygone so it's pretty much outlived it's usefulness.
On May 31 2021 09:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Does opening the map pool up to 3-4-+ player maps mean we could see 2 linear thirds becoming a thing again? Seems to be a staple of BW with Fighting Spirit, La Mancha, etc. but not sure if there's a need in LotV specifically to have a third be in front of your main
Either way more start positions + more weird shit allowed in the requirements = 10/10 map contest
Agree, I don't mind the increase in start positions at all. I think it was limited to 2 at an era in SC2 that is way bygone so it's pretty much outlived it's usefulness.
I don't think the reasons behind 2p maps becoming the standard have changed (12 worker start worsening scouting RNG, rotational asymmetries and so on); what's changed is who's making the decisions. Most pros absolutely despise multi-spawn maps (though some of them like two-in-one maps like Foxtrot) which is why they mostly kept them out the game. However tournament organizers like GSL and now ESL are more fond of them it seems which is why they're coming back.
Personally I'm not generally a big multi-spawn map fan, but I do think that having ESL have more sway on the map pool means overall more exciting map pools. The biggest reason why BW map pools are so crazy is that the tournament organizers do whatever they want, and they have an incentive to make things exciting (whereas players have an incentive to keep things stable).
On May 31 2021 09:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Does opening the map pool up to 3-4-+ player maps mean we could see 2 linear thirds becoming a thing again? Seems to be a staple of BW with Fighting Spirit, La Mancha, etc. but not sure if there's a need in LotV specifically to have a third be in front of your main
Either way more start positions + more weird shit allowed in the requirements = 10/10 map contest
Agree, I don't mind the increase in start positions at all. I think it was limited to 2 at an era in SC2 that is way bygone so it's pretty much outlived it's usefulness.
I don't think the reasons behind 2p maps becoming the standard have changed (12 worker start worsening scouting RNG, rotational asymmetries and so on); what's changed is who's making the decisions. Most pros absolutely despise multi-spawn maps (though some of them like two-in-one maps like Foxtrot) which is why they mostly kept them out the game. However tournament organizers like GSL and now ESL are more fond of them it seems which is why they're coming back.
Personally I'm not generally a big multi-spawn map fan, but I do think that having ESL have more sway on the map pool means overall more exciting map pools. The biggest reason why BW map pools are so crazy is that the tournament organizers do whatever they want, and they have an incentive to make things exciting (whereas players have an incentive to keep things stable).
I wait with bated breath for the SC2 version of Inner Coven
I hope one day we see the lava raising maps. I know they aren't allowed in this contest, but I hope one day we see a contest where you can include those types of maps, or with other weather effects.
On June 01 2021 06:01 [Phantom] wrote: I hope one day we see the lava raising maps. I know they aren't allowed in this contest, but I hope one day we see a contest where you can include those types of maps, or with other weather effects.
You should check out Mappers Delight. It has alll kind of weird maps.
On May 31 2021 09:47 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Does opening the map pool up to 3-4-+ player maps mean we could see 2 linear thirds becoming a thing again? Seems to be a staple of BW with Fighting Spirit, La Mancha, etc. but not sure if there's a need in LotV specifically to have a third be in front of your main
Either way more start positions + more weird shit allowed in the requirements = 10/10 map contest
The only reason sc2 maps tend to have one of the thirds in front of the main instead of along the edge of the map is so that it's close enough to the nat for players to comfortably take. Occasionally there are maps where that third is close to the edge, but in order to make it close enough, the whole natural area has to be rotated so that the other third is now the forward positioned one, like on Nightshade, or the alternate 3rd is removed entirely, like on Ephemeron.
I really thought about both of them. Only having 5 maps kinda stunk when I spent the last year making a bunch of new maps. I guess I still have time to reconsider if I wanted. I'll have to sit on it. I really liked both.
I just want to voice my appreciation for all the mapmakers. I come to this thread everyday to see new submissions and the discussion. I am very very happy about this new wave of remade and completely new maps for sc2. Thank you so much for making these and to Shopify and ESL for providing funding and the framework for this new and stronger TLMC <3
Out of all the maps, I like black heart most. While the size and shape of the main seems unusual, it is probably ok considering a freestyle map. Although might need to check if there is problem with blink stalker strat. One of the gas in the starting position look a bit off, but that may be just because my bad eyesight.
The lower ground natural seems reasonably easy to take as well as in base natural. The open area seems to have a lot of paths and choke point, that might be the feature you are going for.
However, for all the other maps, it seems that you have a different understanding about standard and macro with the rest of the community. For a few of the maps, there is no reasonable way to wall off the natural, or the main ramp will be outside of the wall off if we are talking about "standard" wall off.
Also, the freestyle maps look more like macro map than your macro maps, even though the freestyle map have non-standard features. I think most people would consider taking third in your macro maps would be very difficult.
For the map pain remain, it looks like you put a overlord pillar on the edge of the main. I hope I have mistaken, if that is indeed a overlord pillar, it will be very unusual for any map, and probably not ideal for non- freestyle map.
For the map Clavius Station, the image seems strange, may be some problem with image upload?
On June 07 2021 12:42 Edin wrote: Newbie here. Trying to make a relatively standard map, namely Buried Sanctuary. Hope it will be good enough (Still in progress)
new map maker, yay...
It look nice. Just 1 question, is the top right main have 2 ramps out? The bottom one does not seems to have another ramp at the far side, but the top right main certain do seems to have another opening to the lower ground in front of the base.
Standard map that features thousand years old Protoss aqueducts. The first few bases are easy to take but taking additional bases during the lategame will require good army presence in the middle. Rock towers are present nearthe linear third base. There are four bases in the center of the map that point towards the middle. This kind of bases create dynamic lategame scenarios whereplayers peck each other but cannot directly engage with their entire armies.
Main to Main distance: 41s Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance: 35s Natural to Natural distance: 30s
The Silver Wall divides the map into two halves. Initially there is only a single path between the two halves but holes can be made in the Silver Wall in multiple places. There is initially only one path that goes through the Silver Wall. More paths can be opened in 4 places by destroying debris. When all debris are destroyed, the map becomes completely standard.
Main to Main distance: 44s Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance: 38s Natural to Natural distance: 34s
Four player macro map with all spawn locations enabled. Longer paths give better attack angles for the attacker’s army. Initially there is only one path between the two halves of the map. It is a limitation caused by the close by ground spawn locations that require a higher initial rush distance.
Vertical Spawns: Main to Main distance: 41s Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance: 35s Natural to Natural distance: 30s
Horizontal Spawns: Main to Main distance: 45s Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance: 39s Natural to Natural distance: 34s
Cross Spawns Main to Main distance: 48s Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance: 42s Natural to Natural distance: 37s
This tall map allows players to choose their playstyle depending on how they expand. Taking bases at the front turns the map into a rush map and taking bases at the back turns the map into a heavy macro map. Like Golden Wall, players can choose to play the map in a totally standard way and ignore the bases at the back.
The main base has a backdoor with 2 rows of reduced mineral fields that have a value of 15. Players can choose to expand to the front or to the back. Depending on how players expand, the map is either a rush map or a macro map
Main to Main distance: 41s Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance: 34s Natural to Natural distance: 27s Backdoor natural to backdoor natural distance: 47s
This map features a base at the back of the starting bases. It contains two additional mineral fields that slightly boost the income but it opens a new path. Like Golden Wall, players can choose to play the map in a totally standard way up to 7 bases. Close by ground spawns are disabled.
There is a backdoor base that blocks a path which is safe from ground attacks early game. Attacking that base from behind requires air support because the minerals are placed on the ramp in a way ground units cannot get highground vision by themselves. A gold base is placed on the map split axis. It also blocks the path towards the backdoor expos
The backdoor base has 2 additional reduced mineral fields that have a value of 300. It gives a slight income boost for a short period of time. It can be used early in the game for map specific builds or to open additional paths during the lategame
Horizontal Spawns: Main to Main distance: 42s Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance: 36s Natural to Natural distance: 32s
Cross Spawns Main to Main distance: 46s Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance: 39s Natural to Natural distance: 36s
On June 07 2021 12:42 Edin wrote: Newbie here. Trying to make a relatively standard map, namely Buried Sanctuary. Hope it will be good enough (Still in progress)
new map maker, yay...
It look nice. Just 1 question, is the top right main have 2 ramps out? The bottom one does not seems to have another ramp at the far side, but the top right main certain do seems to have another opening to the lower ground in front of the base.
Hello! There’s only one ramp to the natural for sure. I did use a broken bridge as decoration in the main Lol, I wonder if that’s the ramp you were referring to.
On June 09 2021 04:00 ZigguratOfUr wrote: By close spawns disabled on hexmaster, you mean vertical spawns are disabled and horizontal spawns are still enabled right?
On June 07 2021 12:42 Edin wrote: Newbie here. Trying to make a relatively standard map, namely Buried Sanctuary. Hope it will be good enough (Still in progress)
new map maker, yay...
It look nice. Just 1 question, is the top right main have 2 ramps out? The bottom one does not seems to have another ramp at the far side, but the top right main certain do seems to have another opening to the lower ground in front of the base.
Hello! There’s only one ramp to the natural for sure. I did use a broken bridge as decoration in the main Lol, I wonder if that’s the ramp you were referring to haha
On June 07 2021 12:42 Edin wrote: Newbie here. Trying to make a relatively standard map, namely Buried Sanctuary. Hope it will be good enough (Still in progress)
new map maker, yay...
It look nice. Just 1 question, is the top right main have 2 ramps out? The bottom one does not seems to have another ramp at the far side, but the top right main certain do seems to have another opening to the lower ground in front of the base.
Hello! There’s only one ramp to the natural for sure. I did use a broken bridge as decoration in the main Lol, I wonder if that’s the ramp you were referring to haha
Just a little tip, I'd remove the arch over the naturals for clarity sake. Looks good to me though, very nice art style.
Just asking guys if there’s anyone submitted the maps recently and got no response? I didn’t receive any confirmation for over 24h now. I also asked Waxangel for help and still no response.
On June 13 2021 10:09 Edin wrote: Just asking guys if there’s anyone submitted the maps recently and got no response? I didn’t receive any confirmation for over 24h now. I also asked Waxangel for help and still no response.
I sent some updates yesterday and haven't gotten a response yet. But I wouldn't worry too much about it--in the past responses have sometimes taken a couple days to happen.
On June 13 2021 10:09 Edin wrote: Just asking guys if there’s anyone submitted the maps recently and got no response? I didn’t receive any confirmation for over 24h now. I also asked Waxangel for help and still no response.
I sent some updates yesterday and haven't gotten a response yet. But I wouldn't worry too much about it--in the past responses have sometimes taken a couple days to happen.
All right. I was thinking that my submission format was wrong or something. Thanks
On June 13 2021 10:09 Edin wrote: Just asking guys if there’s anyone submitted the maps recently and got no response? I didn’t receive any confirmation for over 24h now. I also asked Waxangel for help and still no response.
I sent some updates yesterday and haven't gotten a response yet. But I wouldn't worry too much about it--in the past responses have sometimes taken a couple days to happen.
All right. I was thinking that my submission format was wrong or something. Thanks
We'll let you know if you're missing something in your submission, so don't worry about that.
Description: Bigger standard map with bit longer rush path, but more direct attack paths between thirds when player chose different expansion patterns. Map also has two more forward bases 7th and 8th that make controlling central high ground more important.
Description: Map with standard 5 base layout, but with more limited attack paths. Outside of first four bases map is mostly low ground but has many line of sight blockers to play around.
Description: Big macro focused map with middle that allows early direct movement cross the map but forces players to top or bottom part when attacking bases on the edge of the map.
Description: Natural being in the corner allows main to have long defensive cliff that over looks natural's choke and linear third is locate where natural usually is. After the third layout follows rake layout. After 4-5th bases further expansions are much further away.
Description: The map is divided horizontally by high ground. From the high ground towards sides there is two lower grounds that make map have / like cut through.The layout generally creates situation where players have to go over the middle high ground to access other side of the map.
On May 23 2021 09:52 MiloOnFire wrote: Here's my list of submissions. I might change them in a couple of days to make them more diverse, but I personally really like those picks.
All my maps are uploaded. I wish all map makers good luck.
After pre-judging feedback and checking rush distances, I reworked completely Dark Side of Shakuras and fixed issues with Throne of Fire and these are the last change before the judging : )
On JuNe 07 2021 12:42 Edin wrote: Newbie Here. Trying to make a relatively standard map, namely Buried Sanctuary. Hope it will be good enough (Still in progress)+ Show Spoiler +
Adjust a Lots of details and Here’s the final version :D Buried Sanctuary Macro Playable 138x148 M2M distance: 45s MR2MR: 38s N2N: 33s
Why are the dimensions odd numbers? Given that terrain and cliffs only have even resolution, that usually means that the map isn't quite symmetrical somewhere.
On June 16 2021 12:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Why are the dimensions odd numbers? Given that terrain and cliffs only have even resolution, that usually means that the map isn't quite symmetrical somewhere.
Yeah you are right. Should have been more careful with these numbers. It should be 138x148. Thanks
Hello, I'm kinda new at mapmaking, hope there will be more TLMC's in the future, because I got only 3 maps for this one. I have one more layout, but no time to do deco, so maybe another time.
On June 19 2021 05:33 volumin wrote: Hello, I'm kinda new at mapmaking, hope there will be more TLMC's in the future, because I got only 3 maps for this one. I have one more layout, but no time to do deco, so maybe another time.
I say submit the 4th layout anyway as long as all the stuff necessary for gameplay is there. Rudimentary decoration and textures will do and if it reaches finalist you have extra reason to finish it up.
On June 19 2021 05:33 volumin wrote: Hello, I'm kinda new at mapmaking, hope there will be more TLMC's in the future, because I got only 3 maps for this one. I have one more layout, but no time to do deco, so maybe another time.
On June 19 2021 05:33 volumin wrote: Hello, I'm kinda new at mapmaking, hope there will be more TLMC's in the future, because I got only 3 maps for this one. I have one more layout, but no time to do deco, so maybe another time.
-Rework of the bottom of the map, removing superfluous expansions, simultaneously giving the remaining pathway room to breathe and allowing the playable map bounds to be reduced. Various small changes were made to terrain and sight-blocker locations to accompany this change. -Playable bounds reduced from [142x144] to [142x126] -Unplayable skirt expanded to preclude any spectator issues. -General texture and doodad updates.
-Leading edge of main base extended such that the creep generated by a starting hatchery is no longer cut off by the short distance. -Debris leading into low-ground center expansion was moved and now blocks the opposite ramp. -Platform added between lowground 3rd and main base allowing for reaper scouting of main. -Xel'Naga Tower removed, with a hole in its place and sight blockers around the center. -Large line of sight blockers on the flanks split in half, with a high-ground pod added to break up the large space. -pathways immediately surrounding the center have received a rework, replacing the previously split-up pathways with a gold expansion now leading to the cooling tower. -Reconfigured corner expansion, reducing the size of the ramp, and getting rid of the semi-island expansion that was previously connected to it. Now a small low-ground path is hidden behind sight blockers which is connected to its side. -Unplayable skirt expanded to preclude any spectator issues. -General texture and doodad updates.
Chaos Frontier: 136x136, Standard I made a pretty sick nightmarish/celestial decoration at the edges of the map with creeping darkness, doesn't show up in my map image but it looks great.
Nice to see so many submissions. There are some beautiful maps. Also nice to see a few newcomers to contribute content to a "daed gaem" Many thanks to everyone involved.
As much as it is fun to see so many 4p Maps, its a bit sad that it takes away the spotlight from potentially awesome 5 Level Maps
...and Superouman: Silver Wall is not as good as Golden Wall. So please don't bother doing a Bronze Wall. Platinum Wall however is a map I'm really looking forward to see next TLMC.
Playable size: 148x148 wall with 20 minerals per node
Lots of really strong maps shown in this thread already, not just by the usual suspects, but newcomers as well!
Not a lot of groundbreaking 4 or 5-level entries. Restricting the use of extra levels to a category where it is not exactly conducive to making a layout that is more "out of the box" and freestyle should probably be reconsidered for the next time around(if there is a next time). Including extra terrain levels on multispawn maps is not exactly easy either.
Either way I'm very happy to be participating this time around and really grateful to TL and Shopify for spearheading the future of the competitive scene.
I'm a first time mapmaker so I only finished two maps but here they are! I'm excited already for the next contest where hopefully I'll be able to max out my submissions. They are both published to the NA server under their names. Let me know what you think!
Only 6 and a half hours left... I'll probably compile the unofficial list of entries (https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/572750-team-liquid-map-contest-15#3) into an imgur album (or possibly several split per categories) a day or so after the deadline. Note also that this time the unofficial list does contain quite a few maps that weren't posted in this thread and were instead posted on Reddit or sent to me directly.
The unofficial list also contains 109 entries already which is quite impressive given the fact that there's only 5 submissions per mapmaker now.
A winding central path through the middles offers a direct path to the enemy base. Rocks on the center ramps impose risk for army movement and punish lack of map awareness.
A central gold base divides the lower section of the map with a small mineral patch that can be mined out for a sneaky attack or defense route. Only smaller units can pass through this mineral hole. Gain control of the center vision tower to hold strategic positioning.
A pocket natural is blocked off by a mineral wall. Open the ramp for easier access to the alternate side of the map. A large-ramped highground in the middle plays a key role in map control.
4 player map without any spawn restrictions on a symmetrical digital landscape. Rush distances are a bit shorter but naturals are able to be blocked with one structure. Remove the mineral patches for quicker access to your chosen third.
Hello, here are my submissions for this TLMC. It was lots of fun (and effort) making maps again. Special thanks for ATTx and superouman for valuable feedback, since I finished my maps late and couldn't get official feedback.
I made four 4p maps, using combination of mirror/rotational symmetry and 20/16 bases.
This is a mirror 4p map with all spawns enabled, reminiscent of Frost, updated for LotV with additional bases. Each spawn provides a different geography to explore. Narrow bridges are placed in the shortest paths, whilst the center path is longer but more wide open. Aesthetics are inspired by Brood War's Badlands tileset.
Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance (horizontal/vertical/cross): 33/33/40 sec
This is a 4p map with mirror symmetry, with wildly different gameplay depending on the spawns. In cross spawns, the map is a fortress-styled macro map, whilst in horizontal spawns, the map has close air-to-air distance, and an additional path through the mineral rocks. In vertical spawns, it becomes a rush map. It incorporates a semi-island base, which acts as a third for vertical or cross-spawns. Aesthetics are inspired by Brood War's Desert World tileset.
Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance (horizontal/vertical/cross): 36/34/39 sec
In LotV, rotational 4p maps suffer from the so-called 'quadrant syndrome', where players end up being stuck in their quadrants. In this map, there is an additional base between the quadrants which allows a smooth transition out of the quadrants. Additionally, the map has three paths: first, the wide open center path, connected to the rest of the map by ridges, second, the rush path for close spawns which contains choke points to mitigate the closer rush distance, and lastly, the outer path which provides which also becomes an avenue for for players defend bases after the Third. Aesthetics are inspired by Brood War's Twilight World tileset.
Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance (cross/close): 40/33 sec
This is a rotational 4p map with the traditional 16 base setup, as used in WoL or HotS. In LotV, this usually results in additional bases that are too hard to defend. However, the map features 5 terrain levels, which are used to provide defender's advantage at many points in the attackers's route. Additionally, the slightly high distance to the thirds are compensated by the fact that they are initially safe from attacks via destructible rocks. Aesthetics are inspired by Brood War's Ice world tileset.
Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance (cross/close): 40/33 sec
A map revolving around its centre structured area with multiple paths for manouvering to the enemy base. Whilst vision may be key, there are a number of longer paths that may avoid Xel'naga tower vision as well as overlord pillars. Be weary of attacks from behind whilst taking a greedy rich base..
A somewhat defensive macro map offering some handy Xel'naga towers, with a generous variety of well positioned rocks, they will keep you safe early on, or break them down to unlock more advanteous paths to the enemy base.
A standard map supporting a range of playstyles, especially those involving aggression due to the large amount of nice places to place your favourite proxy. Look both ways when entering the centre of the map; your opponent might jump out any moment!
So many good looking maps. Total of 127 known maps seems quite a lot if we reach the usual ~150 maps total. Judges will have hard time finding the best. Now the waiting begins.
Missed you Semmo, been a long time indeed. Great to see some new maps again. ^_^ Love that you went all-in on 4p maps, you always had cool ideas for them. GL
On June 22 2021 19:05 Legan wrote: So many good looking maps. Total of 127 known maps seems quite a lot if we reach the usual ~150 maps total. Judges will have hard time finding the best. Now the waiting begins.
It does seem like the submission count is quite high this time (even if we assume that the unofficial list is getting a higher percentage of all the maps due to more publicity and so on). Despite the number of submissions per person reduced to 5 it feels like the total submission count might be close to the record (TLMC11 where there were 170-something submissions).
Blizzard was pretty prompt in adding the news of the contest to the launcher this time (whereas previously they often did that belatedly or not at all).
3 Rush Metalcore - Apom (I'm only here for the meme) Deliverance - Timmay Tikal - ZugguratOfUr
3 Freestyle Spectrum - NegativeZero Monument of the Makers - NegativeZero Treadmill - Zweck
4 Multispawn Heart of the Void - Apom Gwanaksan - Semmo Canis Majoris - Timmay Volcanic Bastion - Zuratu
I'm a little sad to see the surprisingly low amount of freestyle maps that aren't multispawn or just standard maps with additional terrain height for Main and/or Natural
Gwanaksan - Semmo is my favorite. It has all the fancy stuff but still looks somehow playable
I chose maps that I personally liked or thought would perform well. After I wound up incidentally picking 7 from 2 of the categories, I just decided just randomly do 7 for all of them. Narrowing down to 35 maps, then cutting it by more than half down to the ever so classic top16 predictions. Can't wait to see how wrong/right I am. Also, multi-spawn is separate here because even though they can go into any category they kinda are a category of their own because of the judges' picks.
Honestly, I feel like this category was a bit underwhelming in terms most of the submissions that came in (mine included tbh), and I avoided putting maps that were just 1 extra terrain level in this list. Which of course is no fault of the mappers just the restriction of having 4+ levels to this category. So I don't hate people for doing it, but goddamn I will be sad if the finalists are just 4+ levels yet otherwise standard maps because I feel like it's a lot of wasted potential for creative maps in this category, anyway, enough of my rant, here are the picks.
Xibalba by ZigguratofUr Crashing gatesby Zweck Sealed Fateby Superouman
My picks. I tried to pick a nice range of maps. These are not predictions. I do think the judges will pick some completely standard maps that have multiple levels of the freestyle category for instance.
3 Standard Containment by KillerSmile Transcendence by St0nedas Armada by CharactR
3 Macro Armistice by themusic246 Ground Frost by volumin Gresvan by Legan
An awkward category since on half of the maps (especially Armistice) I worry about skytoss being too strong due to queen walks being weak.
3 Rush Misophist by IeZaeL Promanus Grounds by Pklixian Iliad by Marras
3 Freestyle Sealed Fate by Superouman Crystal Whispers by Patches Crashing Walls by Zweck
And I do agree that freestyle didn't have much.
4 Multi-spawn Biosphere IV by -NegativeZero- Last Fantasy by Timmay Tidehunter by KillerSmile Rise and Fall by IeZaeL
Tbh I do think the submissions overall might be somewhat weaker than in TLMC14--but maybe that's just because I don't like 4p maps much and they diluted everything.
Just wondering when will the list of 16 finalists be released. The judging phase should have ended on June 27th as previously announced. Can't wait to see the tally.
I feel bad for the judges on this one, there is alot of submissions and man they are looking absolutely killer. Can't wait to see some of these in the map pool!
While we're still waiting for the results, here are my predictions: (based on the maps I like, not strictly going by TLMC restrictions, and also not judging my own maps, although I think Curious Mind might have a chance)
Call of the Abyss <- best looking as well Autumn Fields Chromaticity Cybros Archives Algor Mortis Skyfall Karelides Gresvan Starchild HEXMASTER III Last Fantasy Rubaiyat Fate's Valley Nemesis The Scavenger
And for the 16th spot... I have a lot of contestants I couldn't pick from (and fortunately I don't have to!) :D Titan Cosmic Underworld (Sha) Aqueducts Grand Canal Clavius Station Rift Fort Chairman Asthenia Oblivion Ground Frost
Oblivion was actually the new map used by the GSL in the round of 16 this week. Not sure what that means for the map contest or if it will show up as a ladder map, since the GSL has put its name in the map name.
The fact that GSL also picked up the map shouldn't mean anything for the map contest as far as I'm aware (Oblivion might garner some extra votes from being in GSL if it's a finalist). It was only revealed that GSL had picked it up after the judging was done. It's not like it was already being used by GSL prior to being submitted (which might or might not have made the map ineligible depending on if they still have rules about that).
And the fact that they call it GSL_Oblivion also shouldn't mean anything. Plenty of maps have had different versions (or even almost identical versions) used in ladder, different tournament circuits and so on.
Am curious as well for anyone who submitted maps....which map of yours do you think is most likely to be in the top 16 and/or be a potential ladder map? Also what four maps would you like to see the most in the next season or so on the ladder?
Great submissions overall, really looking forward to seeing which ones have been chosen. I especially like all of yours Ziggurat, and hope at least one of them ends up on the ladder.
On June 30 2021 17:49 NeuralNet88 wrote: Oh nice! Thanks for the info.
Am curious as well for anyone who submitted maps....which map of yours do you think is most likely to be in the top 16 and/or be a potential ladder map? Also what four maps would you like to see the most in the next season or so on the ladder?
Great submissions overall, really looking forward to seeing which ones have been chosen. I especially like all of yours Ziggurat, and hope at least one of them ends up on the ladder.
From all of the maps, my favourite one is Hardwire, and I think Agaton's maps are getting better with each iteration. I don't know what's gonna happen to Oblivion, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets the 1st place, although I'm not a big fan of the corridor paths and forward expansion that may lead to slow pushing the enemy to death or just straight up basetrades as rotating army to defend is hard, especially in lower leagues.
I'm happy with my submissions, but they still could be a tad better. Considering the fact, that the weren't many submissions in the rush category, I might be able to slip in with Curious Minds, but otherwise I don't see my other maps making it to top 16 as there are way better macro/standard maps out there (look at Marras and Pkxlian, Themusic! ).
On June 30 2021 17:49 NeuralNet88 wrote: Oh nice! Thanks for the info.
Am curious as well for anyone who submitted maps....which map of yours do you think is most likely to be in the top 16 and/or be a potential ladder map? Also what four maps would you like to see the most in the next season or so on the ladder?
Great submissions overall, really looking forward to seeing which ones have been chosen. I especially like all of yours Ziggurat, and hope at least one of them ends up on the ladder.
I feel like Mayfly is my most standard, and would feel the most comfortable right off the bat, but I think Titan Cosmic would have the bigger number of interesting little bits to learn and play with, and I'd probably want to see that on ladder the most of my submissions. I've wanted 4p maps to make a bit of a comeback for a while. I think if the game can't be balanced around having them anymore then you lose a lot of what can be exciting in this game.
On June 30 2021 17:49 NeuralNet88 wrote: Oh nice! Thanks for the info.
Am curious as well for anyone who submitted maps....which map of yours do you think is most likely to be in the top 16 and/or be a potential ladder map? Also what four maps would you like to see the most in the next season or so on the ladder?
Great submissions overall, really looking forward to seeing which ones have been chosen. I especially like all of yours Ziggurat, and hope at least one of them ends up on the ladder.
I honestly couldn't say which map of mine I think is most likely to succeed. It depends so much on choices that the judges make (stuff like what they're looking for in the freestyle category--do they want standard maps with multi-levels or actual freestyle maps).
I'd say that Grand Canal is least likely to succeed since it's a not very standard map in the standard category, but I don't really know how much of a chance the rest of my maps have.
On June 30 2021 17:49 NeuralNet88 wrote: Oh nice! Thanks for the info.
Am curious as well for anyone who submitted maps....which map of yours do you think is most likely to be in the top 16 and/or be a potential ladder map? Also what four maps would you like to see the most in the next season or so on the ladder?
Great submissions overall, really looking forward to seeing which ones have been chosen. I especially like all of yours Ziggurat, and hope at least one of them ends up on the ladder.
I feel like Mayfly is my most standard, and would feel the most comfortable right off the bat, but I think Titan Cosmic would have the bigger number of interesting little bits to learn and play with, and I'd probably want to see that on ladder the most of my submissions. I've wanted 4p maps to make a bit of a comeback for a while. I think if the game can't be balanced around having them anymore then you lose a lot of what can be exciting in this game.
Something that Scarlett pointed out commenting on Nautilus, the latest GSL 4p map here on TL.net is that getting a 5 base setup is relatively hard. That's something that I feel holds back Mayfly the most, just because of how LotV economy works.
You need 3 mining bases for full production and actionpacked fighting, so when your main and nat mine out as fast as they do now, you need another 2 bases to replace them, which makes the easy 5 base setup actually critical if you don't want the matches to slowly peter out.
On 4p maps you typically have your 16 blue bases, 4 in each quadrant, so if you want to get a 5th you have to be able reach into a neighboring quadrant. Sounds easy enough, but it turns out that the distances work out so that rush times in close spawns become too short really fast. Also you want to grab a 5th from a neighbor quadrant in both clockwise and counterclockwise direction with the same dregree of difficulty to not have too strong of asymmetry in close spawns. In other words it's a problem that is incredibly hard to solve.
There are ways around it though. Disabling certain close spawns and making them the predominant expansion direction works. Making the map massive and giving each quadrant 5 bases works. Superouman did both with his 2 submissions, so I wouldn't be surprised to see those maps do well. I have to believe though that we can come up with a more creative solution that is more freestyle.
Rush: In Absentia by -NegativeZero- Iliad by Marras Underworld by Sha
Freestyle: Backwoods Compound by CharactR Rubaiyat by ZigguratOfUr Crashing Walls by Zweck
Multi-spawn: Biosphere IV by -NegativeZero- Tidehunter by KillerSmile HEXMASTER III by Superouman Canis Majoris by Timmay
Standard: Containment by KillerSmile Starchild by Marras Algor Mortis by samsim
Macro: Enchanted Isle by CharactR Armistice by themusic246 Nemesis by themusic246
I agree on freestyle being bit boring this time and probably having more standard maps with 4-5 levels winning the category.
Multi-spawn feels really hard to say. As said before many of the maps have fine 4 base setup but beyond that it gets really awkward.
Rush seems to have mostly resubmissions and clearly least interest, that makes hard to say what are the best.
For Macro my picks are quite conservative. Maps that look like old maps like Catalyst. Standard follows nearly same idea.
Regarding my own maps I feel that my standard maps may be too macro focused and thus not going to do well in standard. My rush distances R2R are 35-38s that is currently on upper end while people want smaller maps. In macro Purple Mire's setup probably is bit too defensive as the balance of the third base can easily brake it. Either too defensive or ramp is too big. Gresvan seem to have solid chances for macro. For freestyle a lot depends how standard judges want to go. Thus Karelides may have a chance, but it may be too narrow in way that makes the rush distances short while movement to counter-clockwise bases is too awkward.
Standard: Aqueducts - Superouman Underword - themusic Pristine Ice - dashy note: I liked actually so many of the standard maps on the unoffical post, but these are the 3 I liked the most. Standard this time around was relatively around where I expected.
Macro: Electron - Agaton Hardware - Agaton Data-C - Killersmile Gates of the Gods - St0nedas note: All of these are relatively standard like standard maps, but honestly I liked these much more. There was quite a number of macro maps I want to put here, some I had very distinct opinions about because I prefer the traditional standardized method, but that is probably why 90% of my maps turn out boring :l
Rush: In Absentia - NegativeZero Hellfire - Charactr Stigma - Freeze_be (also multispawn) Ravensburg - Skypirinha note: I normally hate the rush category, but the majority of maps made in the unoffical post for rush maps are super good actually. It's nice to see that we are finally figuring out design for ghetto standard maps! Just wish I didn't have to slam my head through steel for the next bit.
Freestyle & extra Multispawns: HEXMASTER III - Superouman (multispawn but is in here under freestyle) Crashing Walls -Zweck Mainframe - themusic (multispawn) Jacaranda - Agaton (multispawn) Tidehunter - Killersmile (multispawn) Note: for the multispawns this is less than the judges pick, by 1 map. Hexmaster would be the last judges pick if it somehow doesnt win freestyle in the case of my predictions. Freestyle is just... depressing to see. mutli-level design was already intrigrated into standardized design styles because it doesn't change layouts enough to deserve its own category, I've given shit in the past for the contest going "new feature make map with" as a challenge. Because it wasn't a challenge, just a inconvenience if you wanted to experiment with it outside of a offshoot category. for multilvls the time between this tlmc and when they were released was so long that there was no good reason for it to be limited to that one category for this tlmc only beyond making the judges times easier. judging something that doesnt impact map design enough at all. Now for multispawns, for them getting basically reserved for judges pick put an insanely sour taste in my mouth, its shitty. because multispawn maps now get multiple chances to succeed if theyre good enough.
I can understand wanting non 2p maps into the finalist to make games more interesting, but honestly eh. If multilvls wasnt limited to freestyle you'd end up with wacky 2p maps that are probably playable, but they will and are drowned out by a tide of 2p standard/macro maps that made use of a 4th/5th lvl. and for such the category missed its mark hard. judges pick being this way as I said leaves a sour taste in my mouth, I kinda understand why its like that. but honestly it feels like a bandaid fix to counter the fact that freestyle will be flooded with standard maps, because multilvls was locked under freestyle only for this tlmc. not the best course of action at all, but eh. it happened.
These are my predictions with notes based on my general thoughts, I liked the majority of the maps. some could've used some more work, some are so outlandous that I hate em (but thats me having the stick up my butt called "preferring hyper-standardized layouts and struggles to accept anything other than such.")
Any idea when the results will be announced? Already been five days since the end of judging phase. Has there been some delay that people should know about?
Standard: Aqueducts - Superouman Underword - themusic Pristine Ice - dashy note: I liked actually so many of the standard maps on the unoffical post, but these are the 3 I liked the most. Standard this time around was relatively around where I expected.
Macro: Electron - Agaton Hardware - Agaton Data-C - Killersmile Gates of the Gods - St0nedas note: All of these are relatively standard like standard maps, but honestly I liked these much more. There was quite a number of macro maps I want to put here, some I had very distinct opinions about because I prefer the traditional standardized method, but that is probably why 90% of my maps turn out boring :l
Rush: In Absentia - NegativeZero Hellfire - Charactr Stigma - Freeze_be (also multispawn) Ravensburg - Skypirinha note: I normally hate the rush category, but the majority of maps made in the unoffical post for rush maps are super good actually. It's nice to see that we are finally figuring out design for ghetto standard maps! Just wish I didn't have to slam my head through steel for the next bit.
Freestyle & extra Multispawns: HEXMASTER III - Superouman (multispawn but is in here under freestyle) Crashing Walls -Zweck Mainframe - themusic (multispawn) Jacaranda - Agaton (multispawn) Tidehunter - Killersmile (multispawn) Note: for the multispawns this is less than the judges pick, by 1 map. Hexmaster would be the last judges pick if it somehow doesnt win freestyle in the case of my predictions. Freestyle is just... depressing to see. mutli-level design was already intrigrated into standardized design styles because it doesn't change layouts enough to deserve its own category, I've given shit in the past for the contest going "new feature make map with" as a challenge. Because it wasn't a challenge, just a inconvenience if you wanted to experiment with it outside of a offshoot category. for multilvls the time between this tlmc and when they were released was so long that there was no good reason for it to be limited to that one category for this tlmc only beyond making the judges times easier. judging something that doesnt impact map design enough at all. Now for multispawns, for them getting basically reserved for judges pick put an insanely sour taste in my mouth, its shitty. because multispawn maps now get multiple chances to succeed if theyre good enough.
I can understand wanting non 2p maps into the finalist to make games more interesting, but honestly eh. If multilvls wasnt limited to freestyle you'd end up with wacky 2p maps that are probably playable, but they will and are drowned out by a tide of 2p standard/macro maps that made use of a 4th/5th lvl. and for such the category missed its mark hard. judges pick being this way as I said leaves a sour taste in my mouth, I kinda understand why its like that. but honestly it feels like a bandaid fix to counter the fact that freestyle will be flooded with standard maps, because multilvls was locked under freestyle only for this tlmc. not the best course of action at all, but eh. it happened.
These are my predictions with notes based on my general thoughts, I liked the majority of the maps. some could've used some more work, some are so outlandous that I hate em (but thats me having the stick up my butt called "preferring hyper-standardized layouts and struggles to accept anything other than such.")
Wow those thoughts are bitter. You don't like multispawn, don't like rush, don't like multi-level, and also don't like that multi-level is only allowed so late. We would still be stuck with maps from day 1 of LotV if everyone was that conservative.
On July 03 2021 00:39 Legan wrote: Any idea when the results will be announced? Already been five days since the end of judging phase. Has there been some delay that people should know about?
We'll probably find out on the 5th, thats when the next phase starts.
3 Freestyle Crystal Whispers - Patches Underworld - themusic246 (this is more freestyle than most other freestyle submissions, so I put it here) Backwoods Compound - CharactR
4 Multispawn HEXMASTER III - Superouman Red Clay - semmo Last Fantasy - Timmay White Sands - ZigguratOfUr
Maps that I also liked a lot: Iliad - Marras Curious Minds - MiloOnFire Transcendence - St0nedas Azure Circle - Zweck Ground Frost - volumin Atlantean Rift - Marras Jacaranda - Agaton Axes Facility - Pklixian
As far as my own maps go maybe my macro maps have a chance? No idea.
EPT
Kairos Junction (playable area: 120x140=16,800)
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