|
What differs toss from terran and zerg is the fact that it uses fewer, more powerful units.
Since unit power is directly effected by unit cost... toss units are significantly more expensive than other races. (especially first tier units).
This creates the problem of "loss of time". Meaning zerg $$ equal of 1 zealot is 4 lings, terran's is 2 marines. Yet both zerg an terran can build their forces in small groups as money flows in, but toss has to wait for the whole amount to collect to start making thing.
This little thing, if exploited with no mercy, becomes a serious problem, especially in PvZ.
So what are you thoughts of some kind of continuous building system (i.e. can start building at any time but it will only continue if there is enough funds), sort of like terran repair.
Possible implementations:
-- Race specific/unit specific (esp. for vital units like zealots, say can build half the zealot as soon as you get $50).
-- Some kind of upgrade system (perhaps unit/building specific upgrades).
|
they already fixed the problem with no buildtime but cooldown for gates
|
Do you think that PvZ is IMBA?
Watch Bisu vs Savior
have fun
|
I think that the fact that first tier Protoss units are that much more powerful than zerg or terran first tier units makes up "loss of time" factor.
Also, balanced maps help to even these factors out. By the time a small group of zerg or terran moves out across the map to their opponent's base, the Protoss will already have units to match.
The only drawback would be that it would take longer to launch an early attack with Protoss than the other races.
|
well, balancing issues can be fixed by creating maps that make a better gameplay, zerg does not do so well on islands and toss has problems with close bases maps.
you can take all zerg air units out and then be saying "you think zerg is weak? watch etc." yet the maps will be all only ground...
If you point is that map balance can even out race imbalance, your right. I think more propper way measuring balance is: balanced gameplay's on more variety of maps.
|
Protoss 'cheese' power is more compact than other races. They can deal tons of damage with very little units with Reavers, Dark Templar, or High Templars.
Even fighting against high damage, high HP units like early mass zealots are quite annoying when attacked unprepared. It feels like they live forever when you're using workers + few lings or marines to defend.
|
I think being able to drop and then warp in right after is a good start :D It will be alot harder to contain protoss. Also opens up the door for some serious counterattacks and some pretty nifty cheese builds.
Also, the phase cannons will help alot as well. No more throwing cannons in the front and the back of the base because u dont know what build the opponent is going for. You'll be able to save time and money because with phase cannons you can just throw a few in the front and if u find out air is coming move them to the back. Less money on cannons means more money for units. Toss openings can be alot more aggressive because of the flexibility they'll have in their defense.
|
Also in PvT, the roles are reverse where Terran uses fewer, more powerful units.
|
Yeah, I'm really excited to play Toss in SC2. So many cool units and abilities!
|
|
|
50 minerals difference is an advantage? That's like 2 seconds of mining and gates build in 60 seconds, while Barrax/Pool take 80, if anything toss has the advantage, not the opposite, and 90% of the units take more than 50 minerals, so they should all be built in parts? What a bunch of nonsense...
|
Its fine IMO but yea in sc2 they changed the way training units works. The building has a timer on specific unit types no matter if you plan to build one or not. you click it and the unit pops out and takes the money and resets all the timers in that building.
Thats pretty cool when you think about it, its backwards but seems like it would be more effective and sorta solves the problem (that doesn't really exist) that you are suggesting.
|
|
|
But once protoss gets like 10+ carriers its a bit hard to kill them.
|
On July 21 2007 13:16 [X]Ken~D wrote:
Also in PvT, the roles are reverse where Terran uses fewer, more powerful units.
But vultures build 25 % faster than goons or zealots... which brings us to the quote from that old terran v p guide that said it didnt matter how many expos the Protoss has, as long as you take out his army he'll die.
The first post has a valid point. I think in BW it was usually balanced in other ways. SC2 has a new way to balance at least late game, as mentioned, in the warp gate. Probably, the gateways will build faster than other race equivalents again so as to help Protoss early game.
The biggest problem I see with building a zealot at 50 minerals is just the inconsistency with the rest of the game... it would throw off your quick math stuff when seeing how many units to build.
|
yeah I love the new production method! >_<
|
are you saying that you build have a zealot, like half the life and half attack or what? because thered the no point to having half a zealot in a gateway, they would have to have a new function to resume the build.
|
On July 21 2007 19:36 il0seonpurpose wrote:
are you saying that you build have a zealot, like half the life and half attack or what? because thered the no point to having half a zealot in a gateway, they would have to have a new function to resume the build.
Maybe he meant like in C&C Red Alert 2 style I think, where you build something and it eats up resources as its building and if you dont have enough resources for it to complete it just sit there until you do.
|
On July 21 2007 16:39 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Its fine IMO but yea in sc2 they changed the way training units works. The building has a timer on specific unit types no matter if you plan to build one or not. you click it and the unit pops out and takes the money and resets all the timers in that building.
Thats pretty cool when you think about it, its backwards but seems like it would be more effective and sorta solves the problem (that doesn't really exist) that you are suggesting.
I thought there was just a cool down for the building itself, so it's the same cool down for every unit, and then, when you warp in a unit, the warping time differs depending on the unit?
|
On July 21 2007 19:44 fuglyfrog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2007 16:39 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Its fine IMO but yea in sc2 they changed the way training units works. The building has a timer on specific unit types no matter if you plan to build one or not. you click it and the unit pops out and takes the money and resets all the timers in that building.
Thats pretty cool when you think about it, its backwards but seems like it would be more effective and sorta solves the problem (that doesn't really exist) that you are suggesting. I thought there was just a cool down for the building itself, so it's the same cool down for every unit, and then, when you warp in a unit, the warping time differs depending on the unit?
fugly is correct, 30 seconds for a unit regardless of immortal, zealot, or stalker according to german mag
|
On July 21 2007 22:53 caution.slip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2007 19:44 fuglyfrog wrote:On July 21 2007 16:39 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Its fine IMO but yea in sc2 they changed the way training units works. The building has a timer on specific unit types no matter if you plan to build one or not. you click it and the unit pops out and takes the money and resets all the timers in that building.
Thats pretty cool when you think about it, its backwards but seems like it would be more effective and sorta solves the problem (that doesn't really exist) that you are suggesting. I thought there was just a cool down for the building itself, so it's the same cool down for every unit, and then, when you warp in a unit, the warping time differs depending on the unit? fugly is correct, 30 seconds for a unit regardless of immortal, zealot, or stalker
That's not what we saw in the demo videos. You have a link?
|
30 second cooldown....not production time.....at least as far protoss warp ins...
|
On July 21 2007 22:55 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2007 22:53 caution.slip wrote:On July 21 2007 19:44 fuglyfrog wrote:On July 21 2007 16:39 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Its fine IMO but yea in sc2 they changed the way training units works. The building has a timer on specific unit types no matter if you plan to build one or not. you click it and the unit pops out and takes the money and resets all the timers in that building.
Thats pretty cool when you think about it, its backwards but seems like it would be more effective and sorta solves the problem (that doesn't really exist) that you are suggesting. I thought there was just a cool down for the building itself, so it's the same cool down for every unit, and then, when you warp in a unit, the warping time differs depending on the unit? fugly is correct, 30 seconds for a unit regardless of immortal, zealot, or stalker That's not what we saw in the demo videos. You have a link?
that is what we saw in the demos, if you look at the large game preview video (where he warps in a lot of stalkers and zealots) if you look at the right hand side when a warpgate is selected, you see a zealot, an immortal, and a stalker. They all have the cooldown animation (if you've played WoW or WC3) and they are all have the same duration
theres a screenshot of it in the "New Method of Protoss Production" thread, somone put it against a "move attack hold position" background so it was more visible
|
On July 22 2007 00:27 caution.slip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2007 22:55 mahnini wrote:On July 21 2007 22:53 caution.slip wrote:On July 21 2007 19:44 fuglyfrog wrote:On July 21 2007 16:39 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Its fine IMO but yea in sc2 they changed the way training units works. The building has a timer on specific unit types no matter if you plan to build one or not. you click it and the unit pops out and takes the money and resets all the timers in that building.
Thats pretty cool when you think about it, its backwards but seems like it would be more effective and sorta solves the problem (that doesn't really exist) that you are suggesting. I thought there was just a cool down for the building itself, so it's the same cool down for every unit, and then, when you warp in a unit, the warping time differs depending on the unit? fugly is correct, 30 seconds for a unit regardless of immortal, zealot, or stalker That's not what we saw in the demo videos. You have a link? that is what we saw in the demos, if you look at the large game preview video (where he warps in a lot of stalkers and zealots) if you look at the right hand side when a warpgate is selected, you see a zealot, an immortal, and a stalker. They all have the cooldown animation (if you've played WoW or WC3) and they are all have the same duration theres a screenshot of it in the "New Method of Protoss Production" thread, somone put it against a "move attack hold position" background so it was more visible
Well, it's not a uniform 30 seconds like you were implying. Each unit has a seperate "cooldown" rate before it can be built again.
|
"-If the Gateway is upgradet to the Warpgate. you can teleport every 30 seconds a unit in pylon range"
im quoting Xythos, who is translating from the german magazine, who i'm pretty sure got that statistic from blizzard
of course things could change by release, but thats what we know now
|
4 zerglings attack power diminshes after every 35 (?) pts of damage. This is not the case with zealots, wich remain at fullstrength untill they die.
|
Yeah but 4 zerglings have more damage per second then one Zealot.
|
to the OP, starcraft is the most balanced RTS ever created. There is no imbalance ok? Nothing is wrong with how things are, if you think there is anything wrong then you are a noob who should play war3. Seriously, we don't want sc2 to become war3- elf in space, ok? So STFU there isn't anything wrong and get that sand out of your vagina. Because Pvz is perfectly balanced in broodwar, and will probably be in SC2, we don't need any extra implementations to noobify the game.
|
Say the Colossus costs 400/200, but there is an upgrade for the unit which costs 100/100.
If you get the upgrade you can start building anytime with any funds, say it eats 10/5 (minerals/gas) every 3 seconds, so as long as you got 10/5, there will be building progress.
Or you can wait for money to flow in (400/200!!) to begin building.
Which would you do?
|
I was under the impression that in the gameplay demo they're using some kind of "cheat" to make the units build quickly, and that they actualy have a warp in animation akin to a Protoss building arriving. I think I read that somewhere, anyway.
That's probably my wonderful mind making up more BS though, so don't quote me on it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
