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miNi
Korea (South)2010 Posts
or this: (11:21 - 11:40 Reach's Dragoons vs Rock's Speedlots on RoV) or this: (00:27 - 1:00, Free's Goon vs Mines dance on Longinus) Starcraft will lose a lot of it's magic. It has to be FAST and CRISP and CONCISE. That's why we've grown to love Starcraft and not Warcraft or C&C. Sorry i can't make a better thread, but I think i explained my point. EDIT: Yes it's Free not Much. ty | ||
alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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KwarK
United States43810 Posts
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HolyToss1911
354 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25996 Posts
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miNi
Korea (South)2010 Posts
but it's hard to imagine that kind of micro being done with what I've seen. I like the adjustments so far, so props to you Blizzard. | ||
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Sudyn
United States744 Posts
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nullss
United States7 Posts
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
 But yeah... shouldn't SC2's micro system be a little bit different compared to BW's | ||
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miNi
Korea (South)2010 Posts
Starcraft = awesome ability to have control over your units. I don't think the micro system should be TOO different. | ||
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Sudyn
United States744 Posts
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
I'm sure SC2 will have good micro, even WC3 has good micro. The problem with WC3 is that it has a low supply limit and focuses too much on hero abilities. Blizzard already said they'll keep SC2 at 200 supply, so no problem there. | ||
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T-P-S
United States204 Posts
But don't assume that it won't. You can't know this for sure. You've never played it, and you don't even know the majority of what will be in the game. We've only seen a little bit of the game, and virtually no real gameplay. We haven't even seen how units will interact in a micro-intensive situation. | ||
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ggfobster
United States298 Posts
On July 20 2007 22:30 Dionyseus wrote: 12:43 - 12:26 I laughed my ass off at the recall insta death. I'm sure SC2 will have good micro, even WC3 has good micro. The problem with WC3 is that it has a low supply limit and focuses too much on hero abilities. Blizzard already said they'll keep SC2 at 200 supply, so no problem there. No, the problem with WC3 is that everything on the screen feels like it's trudging through a swamp. Everything moves so sluggishly all the time. Nothing seems to respond quickly, imo. Watching pro WC3 matches is great, but playing WC3 just sucks. | ||
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Sudyn
United States744 Posts
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.kaz
1963 Posts
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
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miNi
Korea (South)2010 Posts
On July 20 2007 23:27 .kaz wrote: Do you read before you post? No one said anything about Sc2 having no micro.Honestly, anyone in this forum that thinks starcraft 2 has no micro, really needs to go die. If anything, it will require more micro than in SC:BW because of all the new spells / units / terrain type / transforming terran units etc. | ||
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MetalMarine
United States1559 Posts
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TLFE/SportsFun_by_Etter1.JPG) | ||
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caution.slip
United States775 Posts
they said it themselves that they're trying to make a fast and responsive game | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
And believe it or not: no one in this thread has said anything about how sc2 will be. just expressed hopes. Which is what we can do in this subforum. | ||
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dronefromhell
Canada199 Posts
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pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
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minus_human
4784 Posts
On July 20 2007 21:08 Kwark wrote: I empathize with the expressed sentiments above. | ||
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
so it will seem slower  | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On July 21 2007 06:21 alffla wrote: i think in 3d games the units actually have to take more time to turn and look more realistic and shit so it will seem slower I think in 3d games units can't attack more than once per 3 hours and they can't make a 360 degree turn in less than an day so they look realistic and shit so it will seem slower I can make up some retarded non-sense shit, that has nothing to do with anything, too! Seriously, stop with the crap, there are enough low post newbs posting crap, no need to have even more. | ||
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On July 21 2007 07:18 lololol wrote: I think in 3d games units can't attack more than once per 3 hours and they can't make a 360 degree turn in less than an day so they look realistic and shit so it will seem slower I can make up some retarded non-sense shit, that has nothing to do with anything, too! Seriously, stop with the crap, there are enough low post newbs posting crap, no need to have even more. no seriously like although i know goliaths and most of the mech units really take a bit more time to turn every other unit sorta spazzes in half a second to whatever direction u tell them to go to dunno either its just me or in 3d games units rotate more nicely and slowly and smoothly -.- | ||
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ocoini
648 Posts
On July 21 2007 06:10 pyrogenetix wrote: i believe I don't.. sc2 feels weird and the more i learn about it the less i like it. And faith in Blizzard was lost sometime ago after wc3.. they had 3 hits, and died out, liveing on past achivements is all thats left + bloody brilliant single player. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
All those are really good games. I think wc3 is fun too, just not as great competitively as SC:BW. | ||
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quasi -QS-
United States109 Posts
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Wizard
Poland5055 Posts
Sorry, had to get that out of the way. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On July 21 2007 07:42 alffla wrote: no seriously like although i know goliaths and most of the mech units really take a bit more time to turn every other unit sorta spazzes in half a second to whatever direction u tell them to go to dunno either its just me or in 3d games units rotate more nicely and slowly and smoothly -.- They can set it as whatever they wish it should be, even in wc3, which is a lot slower than bw, units turn pretty fast and even in BW ALL units have turn speed, they don't turn instantly. | ||
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
On July 21 2007 07:42 alffla wrote: no seriously like although i know goliaths and most of the mech units really take a bit more time to turn every other unit sorta spazzes in half a second to whatever direction u tell them to go to dunno either its just me or in 3d games units rotate more nicely and slowly and smoothly -.- What has that got to do with 3d? Even if it was that way in all other 3d games that doesnt mean it has to be like that in starcraft. The graphic representation of the game in no way affects the game mechanics they are on a level below the graphics. | ||
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HypersonicEspo
United States74 Posts
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IIICodeIIIIIII
China1101 Posts
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IIICodeIIIIIII
China1101 Posts
bw has hard counters, but some of the hard counters can be microed against. for example, hydra vs storm. marines vs reavers. i want sc2's hard counters to be like this too. thought there will be counter units, i think the counter needs to require micro. so progamers can specialize in micro games. it'll be nice to see combos like: micro progamer vs macro progamer macro progamer vs macro progamer micro progamer vs micro progamer micro progamer vs balanced progamer in bw, everyone is pretty much in the "balanced progamer" territory. you have people like rainbow or boxer... but in the big picture, their gaming style is still too similar to normal. in addition to the normal: zvt, zvp, zvz, tvp, tvt, pvp omgz @___@ | ||
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ToT)OjKa(
Korea (South)2437 Posts
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ocoini
648 Posts
On July 21 2007 08:10 Slayer91 wrote: Yeah you're right ocoini. Diablo 1 wasn't a really really popular/great game, nor its expansion, nor D2+exp, nor WC2+exp, nor SC+BW, and there isn't millions of people playing WoW+EXP to date. All those are really good games. I think wc3 is fun too, just not as great competitively as SC:BW. It's all personal opinions.. most forum posts are. | ||
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starcraftII
474 Posts
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
On July 22 2007 00:24 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote: i want it so that there can be more leeway between micro players and macro players. right now in bw, everything's about macro games. micro hardly plays a part anymore. i wanna see sc2 designed so that progamers can either specialize in macro or specialize in micro. programers who specialize in micro should have just as much of a chance with any game than macro specializing progamers. micro should be able to determine more. bw has hard counters, but some of the hard counters can be microed against. for example, hydra vs storm. marines vs reavers. i want sc2's hard counters to be like this too. thought there will be counter units, i think the counter needs to require micro. so progamers can specialize in micro games. it'll be nice to see combos like: micro progamer vs macro progamer macro progamer vs macro progamer micro progamer vs micro progamer micro progamer vs balanced progamer in bw, everyone is pretty much in the "balanced progamer" territory. you have people like rainbow or boxer... but in the big picture, their gaming style is still too similar to normal. in addition to the normal: zvt, zvp, zvz, tvp, tvt, pvp omgz @___@ I dont think pro BW right now is only about macro. Its more like the level of the play is so high so you have to have great macro and great micro to reach the top and hence players who are only good at one of the two, no matter how good, can never reach the top. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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Titanidis
Greece132 Posts
On July 22 2007 18:05 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Micro hardly plays a part in bw anymore? Yep, thats on the list of one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Tons of games have countless examples of continuous intense micro WHILE macroing. ggplays' swarms,plagues and scourges micro in game 5 of the ogn's final for instance  | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
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anch
United States5457 Posts
SC2 = so so speed, with auto cast. | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
On July 20 2007 23:07 ggfobster wrote: No, the problem with WC3 is that everything on the screen feels like it's trudging through a swamp. Everything moves so sluggishly all the time. Nothing seems to respond quickly, imo. Watching pro WC3 matches is great, but playing WC3 just sucks. Unless you get your Voodoo Lounge at Tier 1 and stock up on 1000 Scrolls of Speed and then just RUN RUN RUN -_- | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
On July 22 2007 19:04 anch wrote: best examples = KM highlight and Boxer highlight. SC2 = so so speed, with auto cast. I think that's what people are worried about. I still think Blizzard won't let us down. | ||
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Hippopotamus
1914 Posts
1. Nada's Amazing Maze | H.O.T-Forever's Divine Wind 2. Boxer's Base Move 3. Giyom's Maelstroms 4. Liquid'Drone's Pylon Prison 5. ForU Web Slinging 6. Oddysay's Manner Rax 7. Frosting 8. Yellow Swarm 9. Ghosts and the Shells 10. Boxer's SCV Rush 3 Honorable Mentions All the honorable mentions are there more for the idea rather than for the micro. In any case, an average player shouldn't have had much problem (in terms of micro) pulling off any of the honorable mentions. 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 2 were all included primarily on their tacitcal merits. Granted two did require great micro competency, but it's obvious they were selected for the novel approach rather than the micro. So most of the pimpest plays was composed of things that were enjoyable for some reason other than because said players were good at micro. I picked 2003 because that was my favorite year but you can check them all, up until 2004 most of the pimpest plays are not micro-based. Only in 2005 are most of the pimpest plays micro-based, and guess what? That's also the first time they publicly questioned whether there'll be pimpest plays in the future. Think back to all the threads about Nal_rA's recall against GoodFriend. Many were saying that they do it themselves, that even noobs could do it. But people loved it, I loved it too. It's not about the micro, it's about a cool tactic being used when so many things are on the line. It's not about the fucking micro, ok? | ||
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vicml21
Canada165 Posts
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oshibori_probe
United States2934 Posts
-_____-;; FA is enuf *pulls out* | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
War 3: 4 years old. Yeah, let's call BW stagnant because there's not a lot of new strategies (I think there's been a ton but w-ever) anymore, and point at Warcraft 3 - a game not even half as old - as an example of how it SHOULD be. Give me a fucking break. Also, stop calling BW a 'mouse speed macro war' cause it just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes there is less room for innovation now than 7 years ago, but there's also less room for innovation in chess now than 70 years ago (I dunno how much chess has changed, I'm just throwing out a random number), and this will be the case with ANY game. | ||
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Brutalisk
794 Posts
There are several units specifically designed for nice microing, e.g. the Terran Cobra (can fire its railguns while moving), the Protoss Stalker, the Reapers, the Colossus (move up to cliffs)... there are so many possibilities. Also, some units are very weak against certain types of attack (e.g. Tempest) or are weak after they activated their special ability (e.g. Phoenix). Thor can be out-microed by fast units because it is slow when turning around. And there's much more. In BW, there are many all-round units that are basically good versus everything if in big numbers (like the Dragoon, Archon, Carrier, Goliath, Hydralisk, M(&M) or the Lurker, Zealot, and the Tank (for ground)). And these units are used very often, that's why BW has turned into a macro game. Notice that none of these units has a special ability (except stim + burrowing, which is nothing fancy), it's all regular attack stuff. SC2 looks like it's going to change that so you have to scout better, better adjust your build, get a more diverse unit combination and simply use special abilities much more. | ||
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
On July 23 2007 04:03 Carnac wrote: never seen before strat? what are you talking about? bisu's strat wasnt new at all Ofc corsair+DT wasnt new and fast exp wasnt new but I atleast havnt seen it preformed the way he did it vs Savior before that. If its an old strat ive just missed while being inactive please fill me in. My point is for being a 9 year old game starcraft has a lot of room for strategical inovation. I think I remember Boxer saying it took a lot of training for him to get used to how the game had changed during his short absense. | ||
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
For the Protoss we have: Stalker - blink (thank you) High Templar - spells Reaver - emm scarabs (although not as much now that scarabs are auto build, yeah?) Phoenix - death blossom (specialized for anti-air only, no disrupt web, sob) Phase Prism - convert to pylon (it barely counts) 50% chance t.archon - maybe, nothing yet though star relic (late game) mothership (late late game?) For Terran we know we have: 50% chance Marines - stim (but without medics this will be less) 50% chance Medics - spells (if in game) Reaper - mines (limited application?) Ghosts - spells, snipe Siege tank - siege mode BC- yamato or plasmatorpedoes Sci vessel or it's replacment - (there's gotta be something) So, aside from the Stalker and ghost boost, it seems like we are getting slightly less special abilties. Dark archons , disruption web, vultures, medics(?) are gone. This bothers me. Just like how Vultures were some of the coolest units due to mines (diverse uses- scouting, offense, trapping gateway production, etc.), I'd like to see new specials that you have to use correctly in many situations to win. The stalker seems to have the most potential right now. Give us more! Anyway, we really need this stuff in the game to make it stay interesting over long periods of time IMO. | ||
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