EPTIf you can't do this... - Page 3
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starcraftII
474 Posts
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
On July 22 2007 00:24 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote: i want it so that there can be more leeway between micro players and macro players. right now in bw, everything's about macro games. micro hardly plays a part anymore. i wanna see sc2 designed so that progamers can either specialize in macro or specialize in micro. programers who specialize in micro should have just as much of a chance with any game than macro specializing progamers. micro should be able to determine more. bw has hard counters, but some of the hard counters can be microed against. for example, hydra vs storm. marines vs reavers. i want sc2's hard counters to be like this too. thought there will be counter units, i think the counter needs to require micro. so progamers can specialize in micro games. it'll be nice to see combos like: micro progamer vs macro progamer macro progamer vs macro progamer micro progamer vs micro progamer micro progamer vs balanced progamer in bw, everyone is pretty much in the "balanced progamer" territory. you have people like rainbow or boxer... but in the big picture, their gaming style is still too similar to normal. in addition to the normal: zvt, zvp, zvz, tvp, tvt, pvp omgz @___@ I dont think pro BW right now is only about macro. Its more like the level of the play is so high so you have to have great macro and great micro to reach the top and hence players who are only good at one of the two, no matter how good, can never reach the top. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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Titanidis
Greece132 Posts
On July 22 2007 18:05 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Micro hardly plays a part in bw anymore? Yep, thats on the list of one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Tons of games have countless examples of continuous intense micro WHILE macroing. ggplays' swarms,plagues and scourges micro in game 5 of the ogn's final for instance  | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
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anch
United States5457 Posts
SC2 = so so speed, with auto cast. | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
On July 20 2007 23:07 ggfobster wrote: No, the problem with WC3 is that everything on the screen feels like it's trudging through a swamp. Everything moves so sluggishly all the time. Nothing seems to respond quickly, imo. Watching pro WC3 matches is great, but playing WC3 just sucks. Unless you get your Voodoo Lounge at Tier 1 and stock up on 1000 Scrolls of Speed and then just RUN RUN RUN -_- | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
On July 22 2007 19:04 anch wrote: best examples = KM highlight and Boxer highlight. SC2 = so so speed, with auto cast. I think that's what people are worried about. I still think Blizzard won't let us down. | ||
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Hippopotamus
1914 Posts
1. Nada's Amazing Maze | H.O.T-Forever's Divine Wind 2. Boxer's Base Move 3. Giyom's Maelstroms 4. Liquid'Drone's Pylon Prison 5. ForU Web Slinging 6. Oddysay's Manner Rax 7. Frosting 8. Yellow Swarm 9. Ghosts and the Shells 10. Boxer's SCV Rush 3 Honorable Mentions All the honorable mentions are there more for the idea rather than for the micro. In any case, an average player shouldn't have had much problem (in terms of micro) pulling off any of the honorable mentions. 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 2 were all included primarily on their tacitcal merits. Granted two did require great micro competency, but it's obvious they were selected for the novel approach rather than the micro. So most of the pimpest plays was composed of things that were enjoyable for some reason other than because said players were good at micro. I picked 2003 because that was my favorite year but you can check them all, up until 2004 most of the pimpest plays are not micro-based. Only in 2005 are most of the pimpest plays micro-based, and guess what? That's also the first time they publicly questioned whether there'll be pimpest plays in the future. Think back to all the threads about Nal_rA's recall against GoodFriend. Many were saying that they do it themselves, that even noobs could do it. But people loved it, I loved it too. It's not about the micro, it's about a cool tactic being used when so many things are on the line. It's not about the fucking micro, ok? | ||
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vicml21
Canada165 Posts
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oshibori_probe
United States2934 Posts
-_____-;; FA is enuf *pulls out* | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
War 3: 4 years old. Yeah, let's call BW stagnant because there's not a lot of new strategies (I think there's been a ton but w-ever) anymore, and point at Warcraft 3 - a game not even half as old - as an example of how it SHOULD be. Give me a fucking break. Also, stop calling BW a 'mouse speed macro war' cause it just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes there is less room for innovation now than 7 years ago, but there's also less room for innovation in chess now than 70 years ago (I dunno how much chess has changed, I'm just throwing out a random number), and this will be the case with ANY game. | ||
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Brutalisk
794 Posts
There are several units specifically designed for nice microing, e.g. the Terran Cobra (can fire its railguns while moving), the Protoss Stalker, the Reapers, the Colossus (move up to cliffs)... there are so many possibilities. Also, some units are very weak against certain types of attack (e.g. Tempest) or are weak after they activated their special ability (e.g. Phoenix). Thor can be out-microed by fast units because it is slow when turning around. And there's much more. In BW, there are many all-round units that are basically good versus everything if in big numbers (like the Dragoon, Archon, Carrier, Goliath, Hydralisk, M(&M) or the Lurker, Zealot, and the Tank (for ground)). And these units are used very often, that's why BW has turned into a macro game. Notice that none of these units has a special ability (except stim + burrowing, which is nothing fancy), it's all regular attack stuff. SC2 looks like it's going to change that so you have to scout better, better adjust your build, get a more diverse unit combination and simply use special abilities much more. | ||
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
On July 23 2007 04:03 Carnac wrote: never seen before strat? what are you talking about? bisu's strat wasnt new at all Ofc corsair+DT wasnt new and fast exp wasnt new but I atleast havnt seen it preformed the way he did it vs Savior before that. If its an old strat ive just missed while being inactive please fill me in. My point is for being a 9 year old game starcraft has a lot of room for strategical inovation. I think I remember Boxer saying it took a lot of training for him to get used to how the game had changed during his short absense. | ||
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
For the Protoss we have: Stalker - blink (thank you) High Templar - spells Reaver - emm scarabs (although not as much now that scarabs are auto build, yeah?) Phoenix - death blossom (specialized for anti-air only, no disrupt web, sob) Phase Prism - convert to pylon (it barely counts) 50% chance t.archon - maybe, nothing yet though star relic (late game) mothership (late late game?) For Terran we know we have: 50% chance Marines - stim (but without medics this will be less) 50% chance Medics - spells (if in game) Reaper - mines (limited application?) Ghosts - spells, snipe Siege tank - siege mode BC- yamato or plasmatorpedoes Sci vessel or it's replacment - (there's gotta be something) So, aside from the Stalker and ghost boost, it seems like we are getting slightly less special abilties. Dark archons , disruption web, vultures, medics(?) are gone. This bothers me. Just like how Vultures were some of the coolest units due to mines (diverse uses- scouting, offense, trapping gateway production, etc.), I'd like to see new specials that you have to use correctly in many situations to win. The stalker seems to have the most potential right now. Give us more! Anyway, we really need this stuff in the game to make it stay interesting over long periods of time IMO. | ||
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