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With 2020 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 , Stats is now the only player with 15 Premier finals, becoming the indisputable 3rd in that regard, four finals behind Serral and one away from MC.
Trap has now 8 final appearances and 2 Gold medals hanging around his neck. GGs to him!
He is now tied with fellow Protosses MaNa and Creator. In my opinion, it shows, considering his level, how much of an anomaly this low number of wins in Premier tournaments is.
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On December 12 2020 20:41 Serimek wrote: With 2020 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 , Stats is now the only player with 15 Premier finals, becoming the indisputable 3rd in that regard, four finals behind Serral and one away from MC.
Trap has now 8 final appearances and 2 Gold medals hanging around his neck. GGs to him!
He is now tied with fellow Protosses MaNa and Creator. In my opinion, it shows, considering his level, how much of an anomaly this low number of wins in Premier tournaments is. Also Stats now has 10 2nd place finishes, 1 more than soO with 9.
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just imagine how many life wouldve won by now. hed be the undisputed GOAT.
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On December 13 2020 00:40 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2020 20:41 Serimek wrote: With 2020 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 , Stats is now the only player with 15 Premier finals, becoming the indisputable 3rd in that regard, four finals behind Serral and one away from MC.
Trap has now 8 final appearances and 2 Gold medals hanging around his neck. GGs to him!
He is now tied with fellow Protosses MaNa and Creator. In my opinion, it shows, considering his level, how much of an anomaly this low number of wins in Premier tournaments is. Also Stats now has 10 2nd place finishes, 1 more than soO with 9.
Stats and MC achievements are amazingly similar actually: 5 Gold and 10 Silver vs. 6 Gold and 10 silver.
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Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On December 13 2020 01:12 freelifeffs wrote: just imagine how many life wouldve won by now. hed be the undisputed GOAT. Assumes a lot.
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Serral doesn't count cause he's zerg in LOTV. Zerg in WoL or HoTS, fine. Zerg in LOTV? Not fine.
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On December 13 2020 13:21 NinjaNight wrote: Serral doesn't count cause he's zerg in LOTV. Zerg in WoL or HoTS, fine. Zerg in LOTV? Not fine.
Zerg won 42 out of 90 Premier in LOTV (46,7%). It is far from the ideal 33,3% one could expect, it's true.
But Serral won by himself 13 out of those 42 victories. It's 30,9 %. Almost a third of all Zerg victories (and 14,4% of all titles). That's huge man. You can not disregard Serral because of his race that easily.
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I added some race and nationality stats!
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Great to see. Not surprising to see Serral on top of course. 13 golds is insanity!
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On December 13 2020 17:14 Serimek wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2020 13:21 NinjaNight wrote: Serral doesn't count cause he's zerg in LOTV. Zerg in WoL or HoTS, fine. Zerg in LOTV? Not fine. Zerg won 42 out of 90 Premier in LOTV (46,7%). It is far from the ideal 33,3% one could expect, it's true. But Serral won by himself 13 out of those 42 victories. It's 30,9 %. Almost a third of all Zerg victories (and 14,4% of all titles). That's huge man. You can not disregard Serral because of his race that easily. Even if we subtract those 13 victories of Serral zerg still has more gold medals than the other races. Factor in that four of the finals Serral won was ZvZ, even if Serral lost those it would still be a zerg champion.
If you factor that in it is clear that looking at championship results zerg does look overpowered. Not saying they are, just saying its not all Serral. Obviously Serral is still a god and should be considered the fifth race.
Very interesting stats presented here, I don't care much from drawing conclusions only from championships but it is interesting.
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On December 14 2020 20:28 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2020 17:14 Serimek wrote:On December 13 2020 13:21 NinjaNight wrote: Serral doesn't count cause he's zerg in LOTV. Zerg in WoL or HoTS, fine. Zerg in LOTV? Not fine. Zerg won 42 out of 90 Premier in LOTV (46,7%). It is far from the ideal 33,3% one could expect, it's true. But Serral won by himself 13 out of those 42 victories. It's 30,9 %. Almost a third of all Zerg victories (and 14,4% of all titles). That's huge man. You can not disregard Serral because of his race that easily. Even if we subtract those 13 victories of Serral zerg still has more gold medals than the other races. Factor in that four of the finals Serral won was ZvZ, even if Serral lost those it would still be a zerg champion. If you factor that in it is clear that looking at championship results zerg does look overpowered. Not saying they are, just saying its not all Serral. Obviously Serral is still a god and should be considered the fifth race. Very interesting stats presented here, I don't care much from drawing conclusions only from championships but it is interesting. I mean in 2019 Zerg was blatantly overpowered, there's no discussion about it. In 2018 and 2020 it looks very different and I don't think Zerg was too strong there. keep in mind that the 4 WCS victories in 2018 were always going to be won by Serral because he had zero competition back then. Pointless to make a stat about premier winners from 2018 to now when the balance changed so much in this period.
so Serral won 4 out of his "premier" championships according to Liquipedia (which I think is a terribly inaccurate and arbitrary metric but I will just go with it because that's what you're talking about) during a period where Zerg was blatantly imbalanced.
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On December 14 2020 22:17 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2020 20:28 Shuffleblade wrote:On December 13 2020 17:14 Serimek wrote:On December 13 2020 13:21 NinjaNight wrote: Serral doesn't count cause he's zerg in LOTV. Zerg in WoL or HoTS, fine. Zerg in LOTV? Not fine. Zerg won 42 out of 90 Premier in LOTV (46,7%). It is far from the ideal 33,3% one could expect, it's true. But Serral won by himself 13 out of those 42 victories. It's 30,9 %. Almost a third of all Zerg victories (and 14,4% of all titles). That's huge man. You can not disregard Serral because of his race that easily. Even if we subtract those 13 victories of Serral zerg still has more gold medals than the other races. Factor in that four of the finals Serral won was ZvZ, even if Serral lost those it would still be a zerg champion. If you factor that in it is clear that looking at championship results zerg does look overpowered. Not saying they are, just saying its not all Serral. Obviously Serral is still a god and should be considered the fifth race. Very interesting stats presented here, I don't care much from drawing conclusions only from championships but it is interesting. I mean in 2019 Zerg was blatantly overpowered, there's no discussion about it. In 2018 and 2020 it looks very different and I don't think Zerg was too strong there. keep in mind that the 4 WCS victories in 2018 were always going to be won by Serral because he had zero competition back then. Pointless to make a stat about premier winners from 2018 to now when the balance changed so much in this period. so Serral won 4 out of his "premier" championships according to Liquipedia (which I think is a terribly inaccurate and arbitrary metric but I will just go with it because that's what you're talking about) during a period where Zerg was blatantly imbalanced. What is your point, do you have a point?
You are entering a thread listing statistics from a broad range of perspectives, including all time championsships by race throughout all of SC2 history.
You are replying to a discussion about wether Serral deserves being the players with the most premier championships in starcraft 2 or if his race makes him undeserving of inclusion in the statistics.
Your answer is that statistics are useless, that Serral won four tournaments in a period when zerg was strong and that Serrals win the following years shouldn't count because he was too good(?). So you are saying you agree with the original poster that Serral shouldn't count?
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This Serral guy, is pretty good.
Do any players have 3x triple crowns? Serral needs another GSL vs the World for that.
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On November 30 2020 05:46 Serimek wrote:Some time ago, I spent time counting final appearances and gold medals in Premier Tournaments according to this page (Premier in Liquipedia) (not including Team League tournaments). The post was in a topic, but I post it here again so it's easier to find for someone wanting the stats. So here we go! Starting with all the players above 10 final appearances :19 = Serral16 = MC15 = Stats14 = Dark, INnoVation, Life13 = TaeJa, Maru, Polt, MMA12 = soO, PartinG11 = Mvp, Reynor, Solar, sOs10 = Zest, herO (not LiquidHerO) And here are ALL the gold medals in Premier :13 = Serral11 = TaeJa10 = INnoVation, Life9 = MMA, Mvp, Maru8 = Polt7 = Rogue6 = Reynor, Neeb, MC, Zest5 = herO, LiquidHerO, Classic, Dark, Stats, Rain, Bomber, sOs, Solar4 = TY, Leenock, PartinG, Stephano3 = NesTea, PuMa, HuK, DongRaeGu, ByuN, Nerchio, soO2 = Scarlett, Hydra, Harstem, Jaedong, Snute, StarDust, Soulkey, Dear, HyuN, MaNa, Creator, viOLet, ThorZaIN, IdrA, Trap1 = MorroW, FruitDealer, Fenix (Peruvian), Genius, Jinro, Naama, SjoW, Ret, NaNiwa, White-Ra, DIMAGA, jjakji, MarineKing, aLive, Seed, Sniper, Sting, First, YoDa, RorO, Revival, duckdeok, San, Pigbaby, TRUE, Sacsri, Sen, Flash, GuMiho, Elazer ForGG, Lilbow, Curious, PtitDrogo, ShoWTimE, Clem, Astrea, uThermalA recap of Gold medals sorted by race :ALL TIME:ZERG: 93 V (35.77%) TERRAN: 88 V (33.85%) PROTOSS: 79 V (30.38%) Legacy of the Void:ZERG : 42 V (46.67%) TERRAN : 25 V (27.78%) PROTOSS : 23 V (25.56%) Heart of the Swarm:ZERG : 22 V (26.83%) TERRAN : 29 V (35.36%) PROTOSS : 31 V (37.80%) Wings of Liberty:ZERG : 29 V (32.95%) TERRAN : 34 V (38.64%) PROTOSS : 25 V (28.41%) Finally, a recap of Gold medals sorted by countries :ALL TIME:Korea : 208 V (80%) Finland : 14 V (5.38%) USA : 9 V (3.46%) France : 7 V (2.69%) Poland, Sweden and Italy : 6 V (2.31%) Canada : 5 V (1.92%) Ukraine and Netherlands : 3 V (1.15%) Norway : 2 V (0.78%) Germany, Taiwan and Peru : 1 V (0.38%) Legacy of the Void:Korea : 64 V (72.73%) Finland : 13 V (14.44%) USA : 7 V (7.78%) Italy : 6 V (6.67%) Netherlands : 3 V (3.33%) Canada, Poland and France : 2 V (2.22%) Germany and Norway : 1 V (1.11%) Heart of the Swarm:Korea : 80 V (97.56%) Taiwan and France : 1 V (1.22%) Wings of Liberty:Korea : 64 V (72.73%) Sweden : 6 V (6.82%) Poland and France : 4 V (4.55%) Canada : 3 V (3.41%) USA and Ukraine : 2 V (2.27%) Norway, Finland and Peru : 1 V (1.14%) Note 1: MorroW was playing Terran when he won a Premier and switched to Protoss way later. Note 2: Up-to-date since 2020 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 (12/12/20)
Just a couple of things: Korea in LoTV is at 71.11%(64/90), MarineKing won two MLG which means that he has two Premier titles, MorroW played Zerg after Terran(and before Protoss).
Scarlett and Mana are the first generation pros who reached a Premier final in LoTV as well and are still active. Nerchio and Snute reached finals in LoTV but recently retired while Stephano and Dimaga are still playing but they haven't been able to reach finals again(with Stephano actually playing at a good level and going as far as ro8 in WCS Fall 2019 whereas Dimaga's best result in seven years has been a first round exit at HSC's groupstage).
Ah, and under "statistics" on Liquipedia sc2, at the bottom of the page, there is a link to the list of the players who have won the most Majors: as expected, Neeb and Special dominate with 20 each.
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On December 14 2020 23:28 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2020 22:17 Charoisaur wrote:On December 14 2020 20:28 Shuffleblade wrote:On December 13 2020 17:14 Serimek wrote:On December 13 2020 13:21 NinjaNight wrote: Serral doesn't count cause he's zerg in LOTV. Zerg in WoL or HoTS, fine. Zerg in LOTV? Not fine. Zerg won 42 out of 90 Premier in LOTV (46,7%). It is far from the ideal 33,3% one could expect, it's true. But Serral won by himself 13 out of those 42 victories. It's 30,9 %. Almost a third of all Zerg victories (and 14,4% of all titles). That's huge man. You can not disregard Serral because of his race that easily. Even if we subtract those 13 victories of Serral zerg still has more gold medals than the other races. Factor in that four of the finals Serral won was ZvZ, even if Serral lost those it would still be a zerg champion. If you factor that in it is clear that looking at championship results zerg does look overpowered. Not saying they are, just saying its not all Serral. Obviously Serral is still a god and should be considered the fifth race. Very interesting stats presented here, I don't care much from drawing conclusions only from championships but it is interesting. I mean in 2019 Zerg was blatantly overpowered, there's no discussion about it. In 2018 and 2020 it looks very different and I don't think Zerg was too strong there. keep in mind that the 4 WCS victories in 2018 were always going to be won by Serral because he had zero competition back then. Pointless to make a stat about premier winners from 2018 to now when the balance changed so much in this period. so Serral won 4 out of his "premier" championships according to Liquipedia (which I think is a terribly inaccurate and arbitrary metric but I will just go with it because that's what you're talking about) during a period where Zerg was blatantly imbalanced. What is your point, do you have a point? You are entering a thread listing statistics from a broad range of perspectives, including all time championsships by race throughout all of SC2 history. You are replying to a discussion about wether Serral deserves being the players with the most premier championships in starcraft 2 or if his race makes him undeserving of inclusion in the statistics. Your answer is that statistics are useless, that Serral won four tournaments in a period when zerg was strong and that Serrals win the following years shouldn't count because he was too good(?). So you are saying you agree with the original poster that Serral shouldn't count? The debate was about how much Serral benefitted from playing Zerg which has been according to statistics posted the strongest race for the last 3 years. I disagree that Zerg was the strongest race (at least not by much) in 2018 and 2020 and think the statistics from 2019 shouldn't be mixed with those from 2018 and 2020 because the state of balance was vastly different between those 3 years.
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The list is a bit misleading, as some premier tournaments really shouldn't be considered as such (Cross Finals, Inno's Gold Professional Championship), while some majors probably should be (some HSCs, recent ASUS ROG, recent Netease, etc).
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On December 15 2020 01:24 arcane1129 wrote: The list is a bit misleading, as some premier tournaments really shouldn't be considered as such (Cross Finals, Inno's Gold Professional Championship), while some majors probably should be (some HSCs, recent ASUS ROG, recent Netease, etc). the entire metric of "liquipedia premier tournaments" is incredibly misleading, inaccurate and arbitrary but for some reason people continue to use it when talking about player achievements. I mean - it classes Blizzcon and DH NA in the same tier of tournaments.............. I wish we could move away from using this classification as reference
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On December 15 2020 01:01 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2020 05:46 Serimek wrote:Some time ago, I spent time counting final appearances and gold medals in Premier Tournaments according to this page (Premier in Liquipedia) (not including Team League tournaments). The post was in a topic, but I post it here again so it's easier to find for someone wanting the stats. So here we go! Starting with all the players above 10 final appearances :19 = Serral16 = MC15 = Stats14 = Dark, INnoVation, Life13 = TaeJa, Maru, Polt, MMA12 = soO, PartinG11 = Mvp, Reynor, Solar, sOs10 = Zest, herO (not LiquidHerO) And here are ALL the gold medals in Premier :13 = Serral11 = TaeJa10 = INnoVation, Life9 = MMA, Mvp, Maru8 = Polt7 = Rogue6 = Reynor, Neeb, MC, Zest5 = herO, LiquidHerO, Classic, Dark, Stats, Rain, Bomber, sOs, Solar4 = TY, Leenock, PartinG, Stephano3 = NesTea, PuMa, HuK, DongRaeGu, ByuN, Nerchio, soO2 = Scarlett, Hydra, Harstem, Jaedong, Snute, StarDust, Soulkey, Dear, HyuN, MaNa, Creator, viOLet, ThorZaIN, IdrA, Trap1 = MorroW, FruitDealer, Fenix (Peruvian), Genius, Jinro, Naama, SjoW, Ret, NaNiwa, White-Ra, DIMAGA, jjakji, MarineKing, aLive, Seed, Sniper, Sting, First, YoDa, RorO, Revival, duckdeok, San, Pigbaby, TRUE, Sacsri, Sen, Flash, GuMiho, Elazer ForGG, Lilbow, Curious, PtitDrogo, ShoWTimE, Clem, Astrea, uThermalA recap of Gold medals sorted by race :ALL TIME:ZERG: 93 V (35.77%) TERRAN: 88 V (33.85%) PROTOSS: 79 V (30.38%) Legacy of the Void:ZERG : 42 V (46.67%) TERRAN : 25 V (27.78%) PROTOSS : 23 V (25.56%) Heart of the Swarm:ZERG : 22 V (26.83%) TERRAN : 29 V (35.36%) PROTOSS : 31 V (37.80%) Wings of Liberty:ZERG : 29 V (32.95%) TERRAN : 34 V (38.64%) PROTOSS : 25 V (28.41%) Finally, a recap of Gold medals sorted by countries :ALL TIME:Korea : 208 V (80%) Finland : 14 V (5.38%) USA : 9 V (3.46%) France : 7 V (2.69%) Poland, Sweden and Italy : 6 V (2.31%) Canada : 5 V (1.92%) Ukraine and Netherlands : 3 V (1.15%) Norway : 2 V (0.78%) Germany, Taiwan and Peru : 1 V (0.38%) Legacy of the Void:Korea : 64 V (72.73%) Finland : 13 V (14.44%) USA : 7 V (7.78%) Italy : 6 V (6.67%) Netherlands : 3 V (3.33%) Canada, Poland and France : 2 V (2.22%) Germany and Norway : 1 V (1.11%) Heart of the Swarm:Korea : 80 V (97.56%) Taiwan and France : 1 V (1.22%) Wings of Liberty:Korea : 64 V (72.73%) Sweden : 6 V (6.82%) Poland and France : 4 V (4.55%) Canada : 3 V (3.41%) USA and Ukraine : 2 V (2.27%) Norway, Finland and Peru : 1 V (1.14%) Note 1: MorroW was playing Terran when he won a Premier and switched to Protoss way later. Note 2: Up-to-date since 2020 AfreecaTV GSL Super Tournament 2 (12/12/20) Just a couple of things: Korea in LoTV is at 71.11%(64/90), MarineKing won two MLG which means that he has two Premier titles, MorroW played Zerg after Terran(and before Protoss). Scarlett and Mana are the first generation pros who reached a Premier final in LoTV as well and are still active. Nerchio and Snute reached finals in LoTV but recently retired while Stephano and Dimaga are still playing but they haven't been able to reach finals again(with Stephano actually playing at a good level and going as far as ro8 in WCS Fall 2019 whereas Dimaga's best result in seven years has been a first round exit at HSC's groupstage). Ah, and under "statistics" on Liquipedia sc2, at the bottom of the page, there is a link to the list of the players who have won the most Majors: as expected, Neeb and Special dominate with 20 each.
10 years and i only see this now. Cheers!
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