156 days ago, soO joined IefNaij, NonY, ThorZaIN, and Creator on the list of TeamLiquid Starleague champions. For us, the team behind TSL, it was also a big day because it was the first time we could really say “we made it”. We’d brought TSL back and crowned a champion for the first time in eight years.
On top of that, we managed to create something that stood out. It was important to us to do things differently from other tournaments, and our artistic style and musical choices evoked strong responses from StarCraft II fans. We chose to do things that made us happy and hoped that you’d like those things too. As it turns out, you did. Enough that we felt that just one TSL tournament in 2020 wasn’t going to cut it.
What better way to continue our unique take on StarCraft II tournaments than to host another one during the wonderful winter season? The broadcast will feature presents, competitions, surprise guests, and plenty of holiday spirit. And of course we’ll have prize money and EPT points for the players.
TSL5 was a learning experience for us. We made plenty of mistakes. Most were fixed before you, the fans, could notice, but some slipped through the cracks. We made some decisions that weren’t bad, per se, but we should have been striving for great. So we’re going to change things. Some of these changes will jump off the screen and some you might not notice at all—just trust us when we say we’ve taken a long, hard look in the mirror, and we hope we can take TSL6 to another level.
So what are the major changes? We’ll start off with the length of the tournament. TSL5 was played out over four weekends. This, combined with the amount of matches being played, meant that the last two days of play were much shorter than the previous weekends. We saw a number of viewers coming into the Twitch chat just as the tournament ended, surprised that it was over. That’s why we’ve decided to condense the schedule and make the final two days a bit longer.
Main Event
Weekend 1
Dec 5th
Dec 6th
Weekend 2
Dec 12th
Dec 13th
Weekend 3
Dec 19th
Dec 20th
The qualifiers were also given a slight overhaul. Our biggest mistake during the qualifying phase of TSL5 was allowing NA and EU qualifiers to be played out on the same day. We made a post apologizing for that but it was, at that point, too late to fix. We also had a problem with Korean players not liking the double elimination format of the qualifiers and we will therefore change that to a single elimination bracket. We’ll release a post early next week with more detailed information.
The qualifiers will start at an earlier, regional, time than TSL5 and will be played out in a single day. The StarCraft II tournament schedule is very tight at this time of year, which is why we will be running all qualifiers in a single week.
In general, the rules will stay the same. Players wishing to compete in the Korean qualifiers must either be a) a Korean citizen, or b) living in Korea. Korean citizens are generally not allowed to play in the NA/EU qualifiers and anyone living in Korea gets to choose: KR or NA/EU, exclusively. The one major change is that all qualifiers will have a default server and the only way to change servers is if both players agree. Tournament admins will have no say in server decisions.
Qualifiers
KR #1
EU #1
NA #1
Dec 1st
Dec 1st
Dec 2nd
KR #2
NA #2
KR #3
Dec 3rd
Dec 3rd
Dec 4th
Next up is daily start time. For TSL5 we started each day at 2PM CET. That was great for European viewers, but not so great for fans in North America—especially if you’re on the west coast. For TSL6 every play day will start at 5PM CET / 11AM EST / 8 AM PST. We understand that will make the tournament run very late for our Korean players but we have not been given any indications that that is an issue, and we’ll try to schedule their matches as early in the day as possible.
Now, about the format. We’re expanding the amount of players we’ll have in TSL6, from 24 to 32. They will be placed in a 32-player “double elimination” bracket, seeded according to EPT points at the start of the tournament. However, there’s a reason we placed “double elimination” in quotation marks. All games in the round of 32 will be elimination games. That’s right, players losing their series on day 1 or day 2 of the tournament are eliminated. If you make it through these “play-in” games, you get that extra life a normal double elimination style tournament awards you. If you want a visual representation of the bracket, Liquipedia has prepared an example bracket for you.
TSL5 had an issue where the first round matches weren’t particularly meaningful, with wins not conferring much of an advantage. We felt that this new, modified, double elimination format was the best way to make sure every match felt meaningful and exciting, maintain the competitive integrity of the tournament, and also address some practical concerns of the tournament (scheduling, broadcast hours, etc).
We are also happy to announce that we'll have the same title sponsor for TSL6. The love for StarCraft runs deep in the halls of Shopify and they've become so much more than a partner for us. We'll introduce them better in a separate post, closer to the start of the tournament, but here's what Shopify had to say about partnering with us for another TSL.
One of our missions in esports is to enable creators and creatives to think freely and focus on creating engaging innovative content; with TSL we can do this while supporting the competitive scene we have so much passion for. As esports fans, it was an absolute joy to see TSL5 come together. It's unique character bridged the gap in quality between online and live event in a way few events have accomplished. We can't wait to see the stories coming out of TSL6.
— Dario Esports Program Manager at Shopify
After working with TL to revive TSL earlier this year, I think we knew pretty quickly we'd be getting back to work on a 6th edition pretty soon. It really is a tournament that's made with a lot of love from the designers, organizers and everyone else that helps put it on, and I'm really happy we've been able to stay involved as a partner.
— Jeremy Gaming and Esports Lead at Shopify
That’s it for now. Over the next couple of weeks we’ll have plenty of more announcements for you such as casters, guests, broadcast partners (this one will take you back), partners, competitions, and more. Thanks for making TSL5 great and we look forward to seeing you in chat for TSL6!
156일 전, 어윤수 선수가 팀리퀴드 스타리그의 5대 우승자 자리에 올라섰습니다. 8년 만에 돌아온 TSL의 운영진 입장에서 정말 뜻 깊은 순간이었습니다.
다른 대회와 차별화되고 개성있는 대회를 치루자는 목표로 TSL5를 개최했는데, 팬들이 배경 음악, 방송 그래픽 등 대회의 특이한 요소들을 즐겨서 또한 기뻤습니다. 그리고 팬들 여러분의 뜨거운 반응 때문에 2020년에 대회를 한 번 더 치뤄야겠다고 결심했습니다.
올해 연말은 TSL6과 함께해주시길 바랍니다!
(상금, EPT 포인트 배정, 예선 신청 정보는 추후에 공지)
TSL6 주요 정보 및 변경점:
예선전 방식 조정
TSL5때 한국 선수들의 불편한 점을 고려해서 한국 서버 예선 방식을 2일에 거친 더블 엘리미네이션에서 하루에 치루는 싱글 엘리미네이션 방식으로 변경했습니다. 예선전은 TSL5와 동일하게 한국 서버, 북미-유럽 서버 두 지역으로 나눠서 진행하고, 한국 서버 예선은 대한민국 시민권자 또는 거주자만 참가 가능합니다.
또, 지난 대회의 북미-유럽 예선 일정 중복 문제 고려해서 같은 날에 진행하지 않습니다.
한국 서버 예선 3회: 12월 1일, 3일, 4일 진행 (각자 별도의 예선). 북미 서버 예선 2회: 12월 2일, 3일 유럽 서버 예선 1회: 12월 1일
본선 일정 및 시간대
대회 기간을 4주에서 3주로 단축했으며, 최종 경기일이 너무 빠르게 끝났다는 팬들의 피드백을 반영해서 대회 마지막 주의 경기 수를 늘렸습니다.
1주차: 12월 5-6일 2주차: 12월 12-13일 3주차: 12월 19-20일
한국 팬들에게 안타까운 소식이지만, 지난 대회의 방송 시간이 북미 시청자들에게 굉장히 불편했다는 점을 고려해서 TSL6의 방송 시간을 밤 01:00시(한국 시간) 시작으로 조정했습니다. TSL5처럼 한국 선수들의 경기를 최대한 앞서서 치룰 수 있도록 경기 시간을 정하도록 하겠습니다.
본선 방식
전 대회의 24강 더블 엘리미네이션에서 32강 복합 방식으로 대진표를 변경했습니다. 전 대회의 방식이 1라운드 경기가 무의미하다는 지적을 .
Amazing. Can't wait for this. Also I like all the changes, seems you guys took all the valid criticism and improved a lot based on it, that's super cool. TSL HYPE!
Love it - can't wait tot tune in! The previous one was great, despite all the talk in this post of 'things could have been better', no complaints here.
Oh yeaa! I just paid my shopify bill, so I hope it funded the tournament. I've also bought a Honda this year, while basically eating Jersey Mike's non stop... I'm a full on TL fan boy :D
On November 11 2020 04:04 Incanus wrote: Go Shopify and TL! Just curious, why the hate for double elimination?
I'm gonna be honest with you and say that I don't know. We just noticed a large number of KR players dropping out of the qualifiers after their UB loss. That's why we chose to change the KR qualifiers to single-elim.
On November 11 2020 04:04 Incanus wrote: Go Shopify and TL! Just curious, why the hate for double elimination?
I'm gonna be honest with you and say that I don't know. We just noticed a large number of KR players dropping out of the qualifiers after their UB loss. That's why we chose to change the KR qualifiers to single-elim.
Fair enough, and appreciate the honest response! Love the approach to improvement.
On November 11 2020 04:44 NonY wrote: Nice. I will try to play a qualifier for old time's sake. So the qualifiers are at 8am PST too? That's tough for a weekday.
The start time for the qualifiers will be tailored to the region. We'll have a thread out next week with more details.
On November 11 2020 04:44 NonY wrote: Nice. I will try to play a qualifier for old time's sake. So the qualifiers are at 8am PST too? That's tough for a weekday.
Yes, love hearing this! So nostalgic, I remember watching your stream during the beta ^^ Ty TL for doing this!
Why is there only one qualifier for EU with only 4 people qualifying, when there is 8 people qualifying from the NA qualifiers and 12 people qualifying from the KR qualifiers?
On November 11 2020 06:50 BaneRiders wrote: Why is there only one qualifier for EU with only 4 people qualifying, when there is 8 people qualifying from the NA qualifiers and 12 people qualifying from the KR qualifiers?
EU players can still play in the NA qualifiers (and vice versa). We decided to do two NA qualifiers as they act as sort of a "world qualifier". Players from east asia (not KR) will have better ping to NA than EU.
On November 11 2020 06:50 BaneRiders wrote: Why is there only one qualifier for EU with only 4 people qualifying, when there is 8 people qualifying from the NA qualifiers and 12 people qualifying from the KR qualifiers?
On November 11 2020 08:56 Xain0n wrote: I find extremely interesting that they point out they haven't received negative feedback from the koreans about playing late.
Also, isn't Super Tournament II scheduled to end the day TSL starts?
Because the Koreans always play late anyway. It was only bad when they had to play late after having GSL same/next day or so. It was mostly a community reaction claiming the late games affected the Koreans
If you are basing it off Liquipedia it’s probably because Liquipedia has the wrong dates for super tournament afaik
On November 11 2020 08:56 Xain0n wrote: I find extremely interesting that they point out they haven't received negative feedback from the koreans about playing late.
Also, isn't Super Tournament II scheduled to end the day TSL starts?
Because the Koreans always play late anyway. It was only bad when they had to play late after having GSL same/next day or so. It was mostly a community reaction claiming the late games affected the Koreans
If you are basing it off Liquipedia it’s probably because Liquipedia has the wrong dates for super tournament afaik
Suuuuuuuuuuuure, every human being is perfectly fine being awake late at night, that's why all the top sporting events start at 1 AM local time. C'mon...
Edit> i am a nightly person, I love being awake late at night and thanks to COVID I am(home office benefits). I am awake up to 3 AM local and I wouldn't touch the code(work as a programmer) after 10 PM because I know it's not a good idea. Sure, you may be awake, you may be streaming, you may respond like everything is fine. But hey, I'm not a Korean pro. (laddering != pro match IMO)
On November 12 2020 02:41 deacon.frost wrote: At least i wasn't watchign this day, gonna skip the rest and TSL for sure too(just read the time rules and ... well.. nto gonna support that)
What rules?
For TSL6 every play day will start at 5PM CET / 11AM EST / 8 AM PST. We understand that will make the tournament run very late for our Korean players but we have not been given any indications that that is an issue, and we’ll try to schedule their matches as early in the day as possible.
Nobody ever said it's an issue, as we expect every progamer is a nolifer who is perfectly fine playing a pro match at 1 AM earliest(if my adjustment is correct)
In korea yes its normal, they often ladder at 2 am/3am hence they are used to playing at those times, hence they have no issue with it. So what is the reason again you are not gonna watch tsl?
It's not normal unless you wake up at 11 PM. I am awake up to 3 AM local time and I wouldn't touch the code(programmer) after 10 pm. BEcause I know my brains limits. Laddering isn't exactly a pro match, right?
Edit> and yes, that's the reason.
Edit 2> but hey, maybe it is normal. What do i know? All I know is that I hate that reasoning and that's why I'm not watching it
11PM? Pretty sure people can still think more than 4 hours after waking up.
And lots of devs like to work at night--it's all about how you manage your sleep schedule. You're just projecting your standards onto other people.
Also I would assume they go to bed at like 4 AM-5AM after their ladder sessions/tournament and then wake up in the early afternoon..
On November 12 2020 02:41 deacon.frost wrote: At least i wasn't watchign this day, gonna skip the rest and TSL for sure too(just read the time rules and ... well.. nto gonna support that)
What rules?
For TSL6 every play day will start at 5PM CET / 11AM EST / 8 AM PST. We understand that will make the tournament run very late for our Korean players but we have not been given any indications that that is an issue, and we’ll try to schedule their matches as early in the day as possible.
Nobody ever said it's an issue, as we expect every progamer is a nolifer who is perfectly fine playing a pro match at 1 AM earliest(if my adjustment is correct)
In korea yes its normal, they often ladder at 2 am/3am hence they are used to playing at those times, hence they have no issue with it. So what is the reason again you are not gonna watch tsl?
It's not normal unless you wake up at 11 PM. I am awake up to 3 AM local time and I wouldn't touch the code(programmer) after 10 pm. BEcause I know my brains limits. Laddering isn't exactly a pro match, right?
Edit> and yes, that's the reason.
Edit 2> but hey, maybe it is normal. What do i know? All I know is that I hate that reasoning and that's why I'm not watching it
11PM? Pretty sure people can still think more than 4 hours after waking up.
And lots of devs like to work at night--it's all about how you manage your sleep schedule. You're just projecting your standards onto other people.
Also I would assume they go to bed at like 4 AM-5AM after their ladder sessions/tournament and then wake up in the early afternoon..
On November 12 2020 02:41 deacon.frost wrote: At least i wasn't watchign this day, gonna skip the rest and TSL for sure too(just read the time rules and ... well.. nto gonna support that)
What rules?
For TSL6 every play day will start at 5PM CET / 11AM EST / 8 AM PST. We understand that will make the tournament run very late for our Korean players but we have not been given any indications that that is an issue, and we’ll try to schedule their matches as early in the day as possible.
Nobody ever said it's an issue, as we expect every progamer is a nolifer who is perfectly fine playing a pro match at 1 AM earliest(if my adjustment is correct)
In korea yes its normal, they often ladder at 2 am/3am hence they are used to playing at those times, hence they have no issue with it. So what is the reason again you are not gonna watch tsl?
It's not normal unless you wake up at 11 PM. I am awake up to 3 AM local time and I wouldn't touch the code(programmer) after 10 pm. BEcause I know my brains limits. Laddering isn't exactly a pro match, right?
Edit> and yes, that's the reason.
Edit 2> but hey, maybe it is normal. What do i know? All I know is that I hate that reasoning and that's why I'm not watching it
11PM? Pretty sure people can still think more than 4 hours after waking up.
And lots of devs like to work at night--it's all about how you manage your sleep schedule. You're just projecting your standards onto other people.
Also I would assume they go to bed at like 4 AM-5AM after their ladder sessions/tournament and then wake up in the early afternoon..
Almost no pros play ladder past 1 AM in Korea
Hey, Wardi, Scarlett doesn't agree.
What do you want me to say? The Korean players have not complained about playing through the night during events such as SAHSC, previous TSL, etc. Koreans frequently reply to me about events at 4-5am.
Tournaments have to think about viewership etc. I personally don't agree with pushing the start time back so much, but if thats what the sponsors want / request then you either have no tournament or you make those adjustments. We're living in a weird time where travelling isn't possible. Online events are always going to be bad for some time zone.
I just stand by the fact that if the Korean players see this as a problem, they will speak up. TSL is clearly happy to listen to players and their ideas to improve the event.
On November 12 2020 06:29 WardiTV wrote: I just stand by the fact that if the Korean players see this as a problem, they will speak up. TSL is clearly happy to listen to players and their ideas to improve the event.
Then I don't think you understand Asian culture very much. Unless there is someone that they trust very much or are close to, in Asian culture it's very unusual for someone to "speak their mind", particularly if the other person is a foreigner.
I can totally understand why they schedule it the way that they do. Viewership matters. But it's bonkers to think that for the Koreans to be playing at 1++am that it doesn't impact their performance. It absolutely does, particularly at the top levels of play.
The only recent online tournament that I could think of that started at a reasonable time for the Koreans is King of Battles. They started at 8pm local time. That seems to have a big difference. Look at how many of them were in the playoffs and how much the foreigners performed subpar (including both Reynor/Serral).
During SAHSC Inno and other koreans started saying that it is starting to get late around 11pm CET. So they speak up (at least some of them) and apparently are fine with playing until at least 11pm CET (aka 6h after the TSL days start). Combining this with trying to let matches with koreans play first where possible it should be okayish. (I personally would have let the days start 1 or 2 hours earlier but it should be okay either way.)
You also have to consider that NA players could qualify too and for them 5pm CET means early morning so pushing it earlier has negative impact on those players and probably also on viewership. It is a tradeoff.
On November 12 2020 02:41 deacon.frost wrote: At least i wasn't watchign this day, gonna skip the rest and TSL for sure too(just read the time rules and ... well.. nto gonna support that)
What rules?
For TSL6 every play day will start at 5PM CET / 11AM EST / 8 AM PST. We understand that will make the tournament run very late for our Korean players but we have not been given any indications that that is an issue, and we’ll try to schedule their matches as early in the day as possible.
Nobody ever said it's an issue, as we expect every progamer is a nolifer who is perfectly fine playing a pro match at 1 AM earliest(if my adjustment is correct)
In korea yes its normal, they often ladder at 2 am/3am hence they are used to playing at those times, hence they have no issue with it. So what is the reason again you are not gonna watch tsl?
It's not normal unless you wake up at 11 PM. I am awake up to 3 AM local time and I wouldn't touch the code(programmer) after 10 pm. BEcause I know my brains limits. Laddering isn't exactly a pro match, right?
Edit> and yes, that's the reason.
Edit 2> but hey, maybe it is normal. What do i know? All I know is that I hate that reasoning and that's why I'm not watching it
11PM? Pretty sure people can still think more than 4 hours after waking up.
And lots of devs like to work at night--it's all about how you manage your sleep schedule. You're just projecting your standards onto other people.
Also I would assume they go to bed at like 4 AM-5AM after their ladder sessions/tournament and then wake up in the early afternoon..
Almost no pros play ladder past 1 AM in Korea
Hey, Wardi, Scarlett doesn't agree.
What do you want me to say? The Korean players have not complained about playing through the night during events such as SAHSC, previous TSL, etc. Koreans frequently reply to me about events at 4-5am.
Tournaments have to think about viewership etc. I personally don't agree with pushing the start time back so much, but if thats what the sponsors want / request then you either have no tournament or you make those adjustments. We're living in a weird time where travelling isn't possible. Online events are always going to be bad for some time zone.
I just stand by the fact that if the Korean players see this as a problem, they will speak up. TSL is clearly happy to listen to players and their ideas to improve the event.
The last DH we had in the RO8 1 fully Korean match, it was played as the last. Would it be so hard to play it as the first match of the day? IMO no, but the organizers put it as the last match of the day.
And yes, I agree, Koreans need to say something themselves.
But as it appears it's not as normal and OKish as it is claimed to be
On November 12 2020 02:43 TentativePanda wrote: [quote]
What rules?
For TSL6 every play day will start at 5PM CET / 11AM EST / 8 AM PST. We understand that will make the tournament run very late for our Korean players but we have not been given any indications that that is an issue, and we’ll try to schedule their matches as early in the day as possible.
Nobody ever said it's an issue, as we expect every progamer is a nolifer who is perfectly fine playing a pro match at 1 AM earliest(if my adjustment is correct)
In korea yes its normal, they often ladder at 2 am/3am hence they are used to playing at those times, hence they have no issue with it. So what is the reason again you are not gonna watch tsl?
It's not normal unless you wake up at 11 PM. I am awake up to 3 AM local time and I wouldn't touch the code(programmer) after 10 pm. BEcause I know my brains limits. Laddering isn't exactly a pro match, right?
Edit> and yes, that's the reason.
Edit 2> but hey, maybe it is normal. What do i know? All I know is that I hate that reasoning and that's why I'm not watching it
11PM? Pretty sure people can still think more than 4 hours after waking up.
And lots of devs like to work at night--it's all about how you manage your sleep schedule. You're just projecting your standards onto other people.
Also I would assume they go to bed at like 4 AM-5AM after their ladder sessions/tournament and then wake up in the early afternoon..
Almost no pros play ladder past 1 AM in Korea
Hey, Wardi, Scarlett doesn't agree.
What do you want me to say? The Korean players have not complained about playing through the night during events such as SAHSC, previous TSL, etc. Koreans frequently reply to me about events at 4-5am.
Tournaments have to think about viewership etc. I personally don't agree with pushing the start time back so much, but if thats what the sponsors want / request then you either have no tournament or you make those adjustments. We're living in a weird time where travelling isn't possible. Online events are always going to be bad for some time zone.
I just stand by the fact that if the Korean players see this as a problem, they will speak up. TSL is clearly happy to listen to players and their ideas to improve the event.
The last DH we had in the RO8 1 fully Korean match, it was played as the last. Would it be so hard to play it as the first match of the day? IMO no, but the organizers put it as the last match of the day.
Well if every other match has 1 Korean then surely that was correct though. KR vs KR is an even playing field (in all things but skill generally), both are affected by the fact it's late. Why start with that match then and instead have a KR vs EU/NA match as the last match of the day if it being so late would disadvantage the Korean?
On November 12 2020 02:49 deacon.frost wrote: [quote]
[quote]
Nobody ever said it's an issue, as we expect every progamer is a nolifer who is perfectly fine playing a pro match at 1 AM earliest(if my adjustment is correct)
In korea yes its normal, they often ladder at 2 am/3am hence they are used to playing at those times, hence they have no issue with it. So what is the reason again you are not gonna watch tsl?
It's not normal unless you wake up at 11 PM. I am awake up to 3 AM local time and I wouldn't touch the code(programmer) after 10 pm. BEcause I know my brains limits. Laddering isn't exactly a pro match, right?
Edit> and yes, that's the reason.
Edit 2> but hey, maybe it is normal. What do i know? All I know is that I hate that reasoning and that's why I'm not watching it
11PM? Pretty sure people can still think more than 4 hours after waking up.
And lots of devs like to work at night--it's all about how you manage your sleep schedule. You're just projecting your standards onto other people.
Also I would assume they go to bed at like 4 AM-5AM after their ladder sessions/tournament and then wake up in the early afternoon..
Almost no pros play ladder past 1 AM in Korea
Hey, Wardi, Scarlett doesn't agree.
What do you want me to say? The Korean players have not complained about playing through the night during events such as SAHSC, previous TSL, etc. Koreans frequently reply to me about events at 4-5am.
Tournaments have to think about viewership etc. I personally don't agree with pushing the start time back so much, but if thats what the sponsors want / request then you either have no tournament or you make those adjustments. We're living in a weird time where travelling isn't possible. Online events are always going to be bad for some time zone.
I just stand by the fact that if the Korean players see this as a problem, they will speak up. TSL is clearly happy to listen to players and their ideas to improve the event.
The last DH we had in the RO8 1 fully Korean match, it was played as the last. Would it be so hard to play it as the first match of the day? IMO no, but the organizers put it as the last match of the day.
Well if every other match has 1 Korean then surely that was correct though. KR vs KR is an even playing field (in all things but skill generally), both are affected by the fact it's late. Why start with that match then and instead have a KR vs EU/NA match as the last match of the day if it being so late would disadvantage the Korean?
For some reason I thought it was after a foreigner v foreigner, my bad then.
Just wanted to chime in on the conversation here. First of all, I think it's healthy to discuss starting times. Here's what we saw on our end when we reached out the the invited players. We specifically informed them of the start time each day. We promised them that we'd do our very best to schedule their games as early as possible (just like we did with TSL5) but we also said that might not always be possible. Especially as we get deeper into the tournament.
None of the invited players voiced any concerns about it. It might be that we're lacking a cultural understanding of Korea but, to us, them accepting an invite equals them also giving their stamp of approval.
One thing I'll admit we did not consider is if we schedule KR vs. KR first or if we schedule KR vs. foreigners first. So that's something we'll discuss internally.
On November 12 2020 20:01 Julmust wrote: Just wanted to chime in on the conversation here. First of all, I think it's healthy to discuss starting times. Here's what we saw on our end when we reached out the the invited players. We specifically informed them of the start time each day. We promised them that we'd do our very best to schedule their games as early as possible (just like we did with TSL5) but we also said that might not always be possible. Especially as we get deeper into the tournament.
None of the invited players voiced any concerns about it. It might be that we're lacking a cultural understanding of Korea but, to us, them accepting an invite equals them also giving their stamp of approval.
One thing I'll admit we did not consider is if we schedule KR vs. KR first or if we schedule KR vs. foreigners first. So that's something we'll discuss internally.
Appreciate the feedback, everyone.
I agree with you on that point. If they don't speak up who else is supposed to speak up then? Their prime minister?
On November 12 2020 20:01 Julmust wrote: None of the invited players voiced any concerns about it. It might be that we're lacking a cultural understanding of Korea but, to us, them accepting an invite equals them also giving their stamp of approval.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I think you guys are doing a great job! The more SC2, the better, and I'll be sure to watch it!! We're just giving these feedback out to make sure that we have the best tournament possible.
In terms of the starting times and the lack of feedback, I'm sure the Koreans are generally okay with it. It's not the biggest tournament, and I'm sure they understand the issue of viewership/sponsors as well. It's just that they are not that much invested in it, and therefore they are much more forgiving on the scheduling. You can bet that if it's IEM Katowice, and there are suboptimal conditions, I'm sure they will say something, albeit perhaps not with the same urgency or forcefulness that foreigners who can speak English will do.
However, as I have mentioned, playing late into the night definitely affects their performance, despite what some might say. Even if they accepted it, it also just means that they accept that they will be playing not at their peak performance.
I must admit, I'm also not buying the "they did not complain" argument. As has been pointed out, there are some cultural things here. Further, it could just be that the Koreans have accepted that late playing times are necessary from business point of view and thus accept playing late because they think there is no alternative.
If you really want to know then ask them directly. Ask them "when would you prefer to play" and "at what hour do you feel you are no longer playing your best" etc.
Personally I find it a bit off-putting if organisers (or others) say that scheduling doesn't matter to players, or that cross-server environment doesn't affect regional and racial balance. If broadcast hours are chosen for business reasons - fine, but let's be honest about it. Then we can watch the games for what they are, and yes then we will have to be honest that Koreans probably aren't playing their best at 7 am after being up all night. It can still be a great tournament, the games can still be great.
The denial is the problem imo. And it reverberates through the LR/chat and feeds the flamewars (am not saying it's the only thing feeding them though).
What would these players do if they had to fly to NA for Blizzcon? They'd get there, adjust their sleep schedule, and then play the tournament. Why is that too much to ask for professionals to do now that they don't even have to get on a plane and fly anywhere? It's like most people have never had a job that changed hours.
On November 12 2020 23:16 sneakyfox wrote: I must admit, I'm also not buying the "they did not complain" argument. As has been pointed out, there are some cultural things here. Further, it could just be that the Koreans have accepted that late playing times are necessary from business point of view and thus accept playing late because they think there is no alternative.
If you really want to know then ask them directly. Ask them "when would you prefer to play" and "at what hour do you feel you are no longer playing your best" etc.
Personally I find it a bit off-putting if organisers (or others) say that scheduling doesn't matter to players, or that cross-server environment doesn't affect regional and racial balance. If broadcast hours are chosen for business reasons - fine, but let's be honest about it. Then we can watch the games for what they are, and yes then we will have to be honest that Koreans probably aren't playing their best at 7 am after being up all night. It can still be a great tournament, the games can still be great.
The denial is the problem imo. And it reverberates through the LR/chat and feeds the flamewars (am not saying it's the only thing feeding them though).
Exactly, I agree with this. That's the reason why I brought it up. The organisers or casters do not even acknowledge it or talk about it. It just feels like sometimes there is no one who is prominent in the scene in the English world that is speaking up on behalf of the Koreans, and that grinds my gears.
On November 12 2020 23:21 mierin wrote: What would these players do if they had to fly to NA for Blizzcon? They'd get there, adjust their sleep schedule, and then play the tournament. Why is that too much to ask for professionals to do now that they don't even have to get on a plane and fly anywhere? It's like most people have never had a job that changed hours.
That's not the point though. The point is that it is *always* the Koreans who are being asked to do that, and almost never the foreigners. Just go through all the previous online events over this past year and see which event has been favourable scheduling wise for the Koreans. Which, to be fair, I can totally understand that! The issue is that people coming and saying that it doesn't affect them or their plays, or as sneakyfox says, no one acknowledges that they are playing from a disadvantage.
On November 12 2020 23:16 sneakyfox wrote: I must admit, I'm also not buying the "they did not complain" argument. As has been pointed out, there are some cultural things here. Further, it could just be that the Koreans have accepted that late playing times are necessary from business point of view and thus accept playing late because they think there is no alternative.
If you really want to know then ask them directly. Ask them "when would you prefer to play" and "at what hour do you feel you are no longer playing your best" etc.
Personally I find it a bit off-putting if organisers (or others) say that scheduling doesn't matter to players, or that cross-server environment doesn't affect regional and racial balance. If broadcast hours are chosen for business reasons - fine, but let's be honest about it. Then we can watch the games for what they are, and yes then we will have to be honest that Koreans probably aren't playing their best at 7 am after being up all night. It can still be a great tournament, the games can still be great.
The denial is the problem imo. And it reverberates through the LR/chat and feeds the flamewars (am not saying it's the only thing feeding them though).
I can only speak from my personal experience and the accounts of other pros living in Korea. It's almost impossible to find any practice in Korea before 13:00 or 14:00 local time, because most Korean pros are nightowls regularly playing deep into the night, almost to the morning of the next day. This isn't a new phenomena from this year due to cross continental online play forcing them into this lifestyle, but has been the case already even when I lived in Korea in 2010 and 2011.
Tournaments running late into the night still isn't ideal, but when servicing 3 different continents there is unfortunately some concessions you have to make.
On November 12 2020 23:16 sneakyfox wrote: I must admit, I'm also not buying the "they did not complain" argument. As has been pointed out, there are some cultural things here. Further, it could just be that the Koreans have accepted that late playing times are necessary from business point of view and thus accept playing late because they think there is no alternative.
If you really want to know then ask them directly. Ask them "when would you prefer to play" and "at what hour do you feel you are no longer playing your best" etc.
Personally I find it a bit off-putting if organisers (or others) say that scheduling doesn't matter to players, or that cross-server environment doesn't affect regional and racial balance. If broadcast hours are chosen for business reasons - fine, but let's be honest about it. Then we can watch the games for what they are, and yes then we will have to be honest that Koreans probably aren't playing their best at 7 am after being up all night. It can still be a great tournament, the games can still be great.
The denial is the problem imo. And it reverberates through the LR/chat and feeds the flamewars (am not saying it's the only thing feeding them though).
I can only speak from my personal experience and the accounts of other pros living in Korea. It's almost impossible to find any practice in Korea before 13:00 or 14:00 local time, because most Korean pros are nightowls regularly playing deep into the night, almost to the morning of the next day. This isn't a new phenomena from this year due to cross continental online play forcing them into this lifestyle, but has been the case already even when I lived in Korea in 2010 and 2011.
Maybe it has changed since then? Scarlett was just telling us that hardly anyone plays after 1 am.
Tournaments running late into the night still isn't ideal, but when servicing 3 different continents there is unfortunately some concessions you have to make.
Well it's fair enough if concessions have to be made, I'd just like that organisers are clear about why they do it that way, while acknowledging the consequences it has for certain players
And can we please get back to offline tournaments already! (f u corona)
On November 12 2020 23:16 sneakyfox wrote: I must admit, I'm also not buying the "they did not complain" argument. As has been pointed out, there are some cultural things here. Further, it could just be that the Koreans have accepted that late playing times are necessary from business point of view and thus accept playing late because they think there is no alternative.
If you really want to know then ask them directly. Ask them "when would you prefer to play" and "at what hour do you feel you are no longer playing your best" etc.
Personally I find it a bit off-putting if organisers (or others) say that scheduling doesn't matter to players, or that cross-server environment doesn't affect regional and racial balance. If broadcast hours are chosen for business reasons - fine, but let's be honest about it. Then we can watch the games for what they are, and yes then we will have to be honest that Koreans probably aren't playing their best at 7 am after being up all night. It can still be a great tournament, the games can still be great.
The denial is the problem imo. And it reverberates through the LR/chat and feeds the flamewars (am not saying it's the only thing feeding them though).
I can only speak from my personal experience and the accounts of other pros living in Korea. It's almost impossible to find any practice in Korea before 13:00 or 14:00 local time, because most Korean pros are nightowls regularly playing deep into the night, almost to the morning of the next day. This isn't a new phenomena from this year due to cross continental online play forcing them into this lifestyle, but has been the case already even when I lived in Korea in 2010 and 2011.
Maybe it has changed since then? Scarlett was just telling us that hardly anyone plays after 1 am.
Tournaments running late into the night still isn't ideal, but when servicing 3 different continents there is unfortunately some concessions you have to make.
Well it's fair enough if concessions have to be made, I'd just like that organisers are clear about why they do it that way, while acknowledging the consequences it has for certain players
And can we please get back to offline tournaments already! (f u corona)
Did you notice Solar playing all the ESL Cups in one day, winning two? Maybe it's not that big of a problem to play till 4 AM for them. I am sure that's not ideal for them but it appears pretty clear they had the opportunity to give negative feedback since they were asked about it.
It's like you guys know better than koreans themselves what's better for them, why they aren't overtly speaking against playing during the night and when they would be comfortable to play.
As for the ping, it might be that it favors certain races or certain strategies but it has no clear direction, there is no anti korean scheme behind cross server play; the games are played on the fairest possible server or maps are split on the two most fair ones. Astrea mentioned he had 170 ping on Australian server when playing against Trap(who I imagine would have a similar ping), that sucks but it's either no Sc2 at all, regional competitions only or cross server play, as flawed as it is.
On November 11 2020 04:44 NonY wrote: Nice. I will try to play a qualifier for old time's sake. So the qualifiers are at 8am PST too? That's tough for a weekday.
On November 16 2020 18:04 thickertom wrote: What about Mainland China/Taiwan/Hong Kong/Macao/Japan and other East Asians? Do they have to play EU/AM qualifiers?
PS: TIME participated in TSL5 through KR Qualifier 3.
In the rules it s stated, that for playing on Korean Qualifier, you have to be either living in Korea right now or have Korean citicenship. So Koreans can play Krean qualifiers and everyone else has to Play NA + EU. Only one, who can choose wich one he plays on is Special, as he s the only foreigner in Korea right now:
In general, the rules will stay the same. Players wishing to compete in the Korean qualifiers must either be a) a Korean citizen, or b) living in Korea. Korean citizens are generally not allowed to play in the NA/EU qualifiers and anyone living in Korea gets to choose: KR or NA/EU, exclusively.
On November 12 2020 23:16 sneakyfox wrote: I must admit, I'm also not buying the "they did not complain" argument. As has been pointed out, there are some cultural things here. Further, it could just be that the Koreans have accepted that late playing times are necessary from business point of view and thus accept playing late because they think there is no alternative.
If you really want to know then ask them directly. Ask them "when would you prefer to play" and "at what hour do you feel you are no longer playing your best" etc.
Personally I find it a bit off-putting if organisers (or others) say that scheduling doesn't matter to players, or that cross-server environment doesn't affect regional and racial balance. If broadcast hours are chosen for business reasons - fine, but let's be honest about it. Then we can watch the games for what they are, and yes then we will have to be honest that Koreans probably aren't playing their best at 7 am after being up all night. It can still be a great tournament, the games can still be great.
The denial is the problem imo. And it reverberates through the LR/chat and feeds the flamewars (am not saying it's the only thing feeding them though).
I can only speak from my personal experience and the accounts of other pros living in Korea. It's almost impossible to find any practice in Korea before 13:00 or 14:00 local time, because most Korean pros are nightowls regularly playing deep into the night, almost to the morning of the next day. This isn't a new phenomena from this year due to cross continental online play forcing them into this lifestyle, but has been the case already even when I lived in Korea in 2010 and 2011.
Tournaments running late into the night still isn't ideal, but when servicing 3 different continents there is unfortunately some concessions you have to make.
And tournament organizers always pick Koreans because as it appears nobody even mention this except few people on the TL.net. eDIT> Like look, I get why are Koreans being ignored. They don't bitch about it and they are in the worst time zone considering the viewers, but the silence around this and the fact that many are saying Koreans are fine with it and playing late at night is so fine for them without affecting the quality is ridiculous. At least mention it during the casting, damn it. The last person I heard talking about this during an event was Serral IIRC.
I have to admit that for once there is a good point on this Koreans vs. World discussion. It is seldom or never mentioned that they have worse conditions for playing than others. Like deacon said, Serral mentioned that in some interview not long ago. It would be nice if that would be mentioned at times and give some credit to them as well.
That brings up another idea; Would there be a willing Organizer to set up an event with more Korea-friendly timeline, have qualifiers and all and grande finale ? Im pretty ignorant about this and Wardi, Olimo, Basetrade etc. have propably done numerous of them already. But in any case, have a big sponsor (Shopify ?), some fancy name (Korean Masters Cup), variety of channels and casters, and maybe even set up the final event brackets so that every group has for example 2 Koreans + 2 foreigners to make more fascinating storyline. Would be interesting to see how that would affect the results.
On November 16 2020 20:37 Starcloud wrote: I have to admit that for once there is a good point on this Koreans vs. World discussion. It is seldom or never mentioned that they have worse conditions for playing than others. Like deacon said, Serral mentioned that in some interview not long ago. It would be nice if that would be mentioned at times and give some credit to them as well.
Exactly, it's always the Koreans who are getting shafted in terms of scheduling. Now, in events like TSL, I can understand, but with ESL - the premier and official SC2 tournament globally - that is just not fair for the Koreans. No one brings it up as well. It's bizarre. Having watched SC2 tournaments over the past few years, there is a strong foreigner bias in the casters unfortunately. They may not realize it or are aware of it, I sense it in the interviews, pre-match discussions, banter etc. I can understand why that happens, since these casters know the players and can talk to the players, whereas they personally don't know the Korean players.
On November 16 2020 20:37 Starcloud wrote: That brings up another idea; Would there be a willing Organizer to set up an event with more Korea-friendly timeline, have qualifiers and all and grande finale ? Im pretty ignorant about this and Wardi, Olimo, Basetrade etc. have propably done numerous of them already. But in any case, have a big sponsor (Shopify ?), some fancy name (Korean Masters Cup), variety of channels and casters, and maybe even set up the final event brackets so that every group has for example 2 Koreans + 2 foreigners to make more fascinating storyline. Would be interesting to see how that would affect the results.
The only event organizer that I have been doing this consistently is AlphaX. They are doing amazing things for the Korean scene. For example, King of Battles began at decent timeslots for the Koreans. I think Wardii has done some stuff in the same timeslots, but I honestly can't remember since he runs so many things.
Tasteless and Artosis literally had to leave their country of origin and set up a whole new life in a different time zone to pursue their careers. Having Korean pros play tournaments at sub optimal hours doesn't even come close to that.
On November 16 2020 23:08 mierin wrote: Tasteless and Artosis literally had to leave their country of origin and set up a whole new life in a different time zone to pursue their careers. Having Korean pros play tournaments at sub optimal hours doesn't even come close to that.
That is besides the point. The discussion we're having comes from a competitive point of view: when having a tournament, ideally every player should play under the same conditions. That is possible offline, but not entirely possible online (for cross-server in particular).
The question then is how to make it as fair as possible (also considering the business side), and finally figure out who gets the short end of the stick.
And, as I argued above, I think it's important to acknowledge the facts of the outcome.
On November 16 2020 23:08 mierin wrote: Tasteless and Artosis literally had to leave their country of origin and set up a whole new life in a different time zone to pursue their careers. Having Korean pros play tournaments at sub optimal hours doesn't even come close to that.
I actually think that, this time, the tournament could really start too late for korean viewers(and maybe progamers); trying to find a balance between NA and KR is hard but probably something like 3/3.30 PM would have been a better compromise, more like DH Seasons finals. It also seems very reasonable to schedule all matches with koreans as early as possible and all matches with NA players as late as possible.
On the other hand, you guys don't know better than korean themselves, who were directly asked and, knowing in advance, can adjust their schedule accordingly. In general, you can't assume koreans will play worse at night because you would find uncomfortable playing under such conditions; this sounds like an excuse.
On November 12 2020 23:16 sneakyfox wrote: I must admit, I'm also not buying the "they did not complain" argument. As has been pointed out, there are some cultural things here. Further, it could just be that the Koreans have accepted that late playing times are necessary from business point of view and thus accept playing late because they think there is no alternative.
If you really want to know then ask them directly. Ask them "when would you prefer to play" and "at what hour do you feel you are no longer playing your best" etc.
Personally I find it a bit off-putting if organisers (or others) say that scheduling doesn't matter to players, or that cross-server environment doesn't affect regional and racial balance. If broadcast hours are chosen for business reasons - fine, but let's be honest about it. Then we can watch the games for what they are, and yes then we will have to be honest that Koreans probably aren't playing their best at 7 am after being up all night. It can still be a great tournament, the games can still be great.
The denial is the problem imo. And it reverberates through the LR/chat and feeds the flamewars (am not saying it's the only thing feeding them though).
I can only speak from my personal experience and the accounts of other pros living in Korea. It's almost impossible to find any practice in Korea before 13:00 or 14:00 local time, because most Korean pros are nightowls regularly playing deep into the night, almost to the morning of the next day. This isn't a new phenomena from this year due to cross continental online play forcing them into this lifestyle, but has been the case already even when I lived in Korea in 2010 and 2011.
Tournaments running late into the night still isn't ideal, but when servicing 3 different continents there is unfortunately some concessions you have to make.
And tournament organizers always pick Koreans because as it appears nobody even mention this except few people on the TL.net. eDIT> Like look, I get why are Koreans being ignored. They don't bitch about it and they are in the worst time zone considering the viewers, but the silence around this and the fact that many are saying Koreans are fine with it and playing late at night is so fine for them without affecting the quality is ridiculous. At least mention it during the casting, damn it. The last person I heard talking about this during an event was Serral IIRC.
Not surprising considering Serral is honest and has no agenda of sugar coating things. And yeah Scarlett talked about almost no ladder past 1am so maybe playing deep into the night has changed? Looking forward to the tournament either way, hopefully the cross server matches are over as quickly as possible and we have some EU to EU matches remaining
On November 17 2020 02:12 Xain0n wrote: I actually think that, this time, the tournament could really start too late for korean viewers(and maybe progamers); trying to find a balance between NA and KR is hard but probably something like 3/3.30 PM would have been a better compromise, more like DH Seasons finals. It also seems very reasonable to schedule all matches with koreans as early as possible and all matches with NA players as late as possible.
On the other hand, you guys don't know better than korean themselves, who were directly asked and, knowing in advance, can adjust their schedule accordingly. In general, you can't assume koreans will play worse at night because you would find uncomfortable playing under such conditions; this sounds like an excuse.
do you prefer a world where Korean players tweet every minor grievance they have like the foreign scene?
On November 17 2020 02:12 Xain0n wrote: I actually think that, this time, the tournament could really start too late for korean viewers(and maybe progamers); trying to find a balance between NA and KR is hard but probably something like 3/3.30 PM would have been a better compromise, more like DH Seasons finals. It also seems very reasonable to schedule all matches with koreans as early as possible and all matches with NA players as late as possible.
On the other hand, you guys don't know better than korean themselves, who were directly asked and, knowing in advance, can adjust their schedule accordingly. In general, you can't assume koreans will play worse at night because you would find uncomfortable playing under such conditions; this sounds like an excuse.
do you prefer a world where Korean players tweet every minor grievance they have like the foreign scene?
I would prefer a world in which players voice their concerns when they have serious ones.
Korean also probably did in private seeing how many games were played in advance and cast from replays.
On November 17 2020 02:12 Xain0n wrote: I actually think that, this time, the tournament could really start too late for korean viewers(and maybe progamers); trying to find a balance between NA and KR is hard but probably something like 3/3.30 PM would have been a better compromise, more like DH Seasons finals. It also seems very reasonable to schedule all matches with koreans as early as possible and all matches with NA players as late as possible.
On the other hand, you guys don't know better than korean themselves, who were directly asked and, knowing in advance, can adjust their schedule accordingly. In general, you can't assume koreans will play worse at night because you would find uncomfortable playing under such conditions; this sounds like an excuse.
do you prefer a world where Korean players tweet every minor grievance they have like the foreign scene?
I would prefer a world in which players voice their concerns when they have serious ones.
Korean also probably did in private seeing how many games were played in advance and cast from replays.
Agreed! Glad we're getting replay games when they're necessary.
So was anyone else shocked by Day9's knowledge of the current state of the game and recent history of major tournaments? It is as if he still actively pays attention to the game but simply does not play or make any content for the game. Totally his right but it just seems interesting to me.
On December 20 2020 20:20 Syn Harvest wrote: So was anyone else shocked by Day9's knowledge of the current state of the game and recent history of major tournaments? It is as if he still actively pays attention to the game but simply does not play or make any content for the game. Totally his right but it just seems interesting to me.
he most likely just did a bit of research before his cast...
On December 20 2020 20:20 Syn Harvest wrote: So was anyone else shocked by Day9's knowledge of the current state of the game and recent history of major tournaments? It is as if he still actively pays attention to the game but simply does not play or make any content for the game. Totally his right but it just seems interesting to me.
I saw these comments last time he casted as well. But can you give examples? Cause just like last time he was making very broad statements which have been true for quite some time while Rotti was really talking about details which were happening in the game.
And thats to be expected ofc, it was just fun to have day9 cast, but i really cant remember anything he said which really showed he watched a lot of sc2 recently..
All the more props to Day9. Who else could pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in and still be entertaining and enjoyable as hell? The man is sick.
On December 21 2020 09:28 EvilTeletubby wrote: All the more props to Day9. Who else could pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in and still be entertaining and enjoyable as hell? The man is sick.
I'm kind of on the same thought train. Nothing that Sean said had me thinking he was super up to date with the current meta or anything but seriously, the guy is a Starcraft genius lol only he and a few others could just pick it up and make people like me and you happy haha
I also got to give big props to Day9. I may be the only person in history to generally dislike his casting, but I thought he did a bang up job here. He was knowledgeable, entertaining, and really vibed well with Rotti.
On December 21 2020 09:28 EvilTeletubby wrote: All the more props to Day9. Who else could pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in and still be entertaining and enjoyable as hell? The man is sick.
On December 21 2020 09:28 EvilTeletubby wrote: All the more props to Day9. Who else could pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in and still be entertaining and enjoyable as hell? The man is sick.
On December 21 2020 09:28 EvilTeletubby wrote: All the more props to Day9. Who else could pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in and still be entertaining and enjoyable as hell? The man is sick.
Wait..., what? is involved, is involved, no idea, hmmm maybe, ehhh you mad, was actually casting lol
Can you not read, this was not about sc2 but wether there are other people that can " pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in..." smh.
On December 21 2020 09:28 EvilTeletubby wrote: All the more props to Day9. Who else could pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in and still be entertaining and enjoyable as hell? The man is sick.
Wait..., what? is involved, is involved, no idea, hmmm maybe, ehhh you mad, was actually casting lol
Can you not read, this was not about sc2 but wether there are other people that can " pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in..." smh.
Im not sure I'd trust Tasteless, or Artosis to cast a game they have no idea in and not have it become more or less their general comedy-routine-y stuff.
Thats not necessarily bad, thats probably my favorite part of their casting, but I dont think they'd be Day9 level at just jumping in whatsoever, Lil Plott just has that raw kind of energy and fast paced well directed humor, I was rewatching his old Chill vs Combatex cast and that was the good stuff.
Like I can imagine him casting some MOBA he has no experience with and just trying to basically learn the game via watching while casting and making jokes, and my imagination tells me it'd be a fun time
On December 23 2020 22:06 iMECH_KolosS wrote: So if a replay packs gonna be released will it be in a new thread or in a few days I have to comeback to this one to find it in edited OP ?
On December 23 2020 23:41 Zambrah wrote: Like I can imagine him casting some MOBA he has no experience with and just trying to basically learn the game via watching while casting and making jokes, and my imagination tells me it'd be a fun time
Oh boy. He literally did this a couple years back with Dota. Some Dota fans were sadly put off by his lack of knowledge but most people appreciated him for being entertaining.
On December 21 2020 09:28 EvilTeletubby wrote: All the more props to Day9. Who else could pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in and still be entertaining and enjoyable as hell? The man is sick.
I don't think any of them, minus maybe Geoff (RIP), would come anywhere close to Sean though. They're all great casters but they also feed off their game knowledge. I swear Sean just has an ability to take the most trivial things and make them entertaining. Obviously personal preference but I think he is a level above in that particular department.
On December 23 2020 22:06 iMECH_KolosS wrote: So if a replay packs gonna be released will it be in a new thread or in a few days I have to comeback to this one to find it in edited OP ?
I'm just F5ing every 2 seconds here.
No joke checking everyday since I saw the post it was being worked on hahah
On December 23 2020 22:06 iMECH_KolosS wrote: So if a replay packs gonna be released will it be in a new thread or in a few days I have to comeback to this one to find it in edited OP ?
I'm just F5ing every 2 seconds here.
No joke checking everyday since I saw the post it was being worked on hahah
We're still waiting for the full package to be sent to us from the production-side. Was supposed to be wrapped up before the holidays, but you know how things can get before christmas. Hope it can be released next week.
On December 23 2020 22:06 iMECH_KolosS wrote: So if a replay packs gonna be released will it be in a new thread or in a few days I have to comeback to this one to find it in edited OP ?
I'm just F5ing every 2 seconds here.
No joke checking everyday since I saw the post it was being worked on hahah
We're still waiting for the full package to be sent to us from the production-side. Was supposed to be wrapped up before the holidays, but you know how things can get before christmas. Hope it can be released next week.
On December 23 2020 23:41 Zambrah wrote: Like I can imagine him casting some MOBA he has no experience with and just trying to basically learn the game via watching while casting and making jokes, and my imagination tells me it'd be a fun time
Oh boy. He literally did this a couple years back with Dota. Some Dota fans were sadly put off by his lack of knowledge but most people appreciated him for being entertaining.
I will never understand this obsession with "lack of knowledge" for casters. I understand if casters are making completely false statements due said lack of knowledge, but SC2 community (especially the elitist TLers) has shunned many casters whose strength lay in their ability to entertain.
In fact, I hate it when casters try and predict what the players are gonna do. Its often just an educated guess and adds nothing to the entertainment value. Who the hell ever goes, "Whoa, this caster got it right!" in the middle of a game. Mid-cast predictions are just nerd-flex from casters who are either a) bowing to the pressure from the community to prove their knowledge, or b) couldn't make it as pros.
I do not mind high-level analysis during lulls in action. But man, it's a freaking battle-zone between humans and aliens and bugs. Hype it up!
And if I really wanted an in-depth analysis, that's what TL writers are for! I'd just read guides (used to, don't see those anymore).
On December 23 2020 23:41 Zambrah wrote: Like I can imagine him casting some MOBA he has no experience with and just trying to basically learn the game via watching while casting and making jokes, and my imagination tells me it'd be a fun time
Oh boy. He literally did this a couple years back with Dota. Some Dota fans were sadly put off by his lack of knowledge but most people appreciated him for being entertaining.
I will never understand this obsession with "lack of knowledge" for casters. I understand if casters are making completely false statements due said lack of knowledge, but SC2 community (especially the elitist TLers) has shunned many casters whose strength lay in their ability to entertain.
In fact, I hate it when casters try and predict what the players are gonna do. Its often just an educated guess and adds nothing to the entertainment value. Who the hell ever goes, "Whoa, this caster got it right!" in the middle of a game. Mid-cast predictions are just nerd-flex from casters who are either a) bowing to the pressure from the community to prove their knowledge, or b) couldn't make it as pros.
I do not mind high-level analysis during lulls in action. But man, it's a freaking battle-zone between humans and aliens and bugs. Hype it up!
And if I really wanted an in-depth analysis, that's what TL writers are for! I'd just read guides (used to, don't see those anymore).
One of the things I miss most from Day9's SC2 casting days was how he didn't do much predicting how the game was going to unfold. He instead chose to discuss the pros & cons of strategies and discussed what may have led the players to make the decisions they did. It simplified, but didn't dumb-down the games and gave me an educational experience high in entertainment value.
On January 06 2021 05:35 dswarm wrote: Ok I guess I'll stop checking here for it. Hopefully if it ever is released somewhere, they make a new post on the front page.
Hey! got an update from the orgs on reddit to a comment:
“Happy new year to you as well! To my information the replay pack has been fully assembled and sent over to us yesterday, so we'll do some checks and release it after that.”
I’ll post the link in this thread regardless of where else its posted just to cover all bases!
EPT
TeamLiquid StarLeague/6
thanks Shopify
