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Vision_
861 Posts
On October 15 2020 20:42 MarianoSC2 wrote: Dont listen to them, your ideas are all amazing. You should contact Blizz and become their main designer !  I can t call them until Monday, my operator telecom is off for now..  | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 15 2020 20:36 Vision_ wrote: You re right, i would be pleased by an entire another game. But Air units like Carrier or interceptor has to be thought with cautious cause actually it could be really game breaking in a new game mod (cause there s no obstacle and movement unit stacking ??!!!! what s the hell, guy you can t enjoy a "tactical" game when you re hit by a parasitic bomb which ask you to act like if you re resolving a design choice by Blizzard). I doesn t care about zerglings cause they have "idiot skill" so they move together like a cluster (as many of zerg units in fact excepted of hydralisk maybe) and regarding of tanks, your opinion doesn t matter cause the splash damage will really be weaker (so it s a matter of caracteristic, armor, damage and so...) I will define Basic units and Advanced units which one can only be created when a special supply count allow it (can be increased with upgrades - Of course a cap level will always exists). Casters, Air units, Colossus, Ultralisks will belong to this category. If you work like that, the balance is really simplier to acheive. Cannot tell if you\'re serious, or trolling. Anyway, you have the map editor, feel free to implement these changes and release a map/mod. It shouldn't be that hard to edit marine and increase their clumping range(so they spread naturally), increase their hp, add them some fancy ability and remove stimpack. And then we can try these awesome changes to see they're bad. | ||
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Vision_
861 Posts
On October 15 2020 20:54 deacon.frost wrote: Cannot tell if you\'re serious, or trolling. Anyway, you have the map editor, feel free to implement these changes and release a map/mod. It shouldn't be that hard to edit marine and increase their clumping range(so they spread naturally), increase their hp, add them some fancy ability and remove stimpack. And then we can try these awesome changes to see they're bad. If players are enought blind to play end game with always the same composition it s because a real time strategy (RTS game) can t only be tactical. If you don t implemented serious and restrictive rules you wil always play carriers in end game for 10 more years. It s just a way among many others to acheive to a new entire game. | ||
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La1
United Kingdom659 Posts
On October 15 2020 04:55 Shuffleblade wrote: So what you are saying terran had 8 medivacs over, they effectively won the fight with. 800 minerals and 800 gas worth of units plus marauders and marines. Imagine that would have been three tanks/immortals instead, no one would be surprised or "amused" the players survived the fight with that much army value and won the game. Medivacs might not be considered army by spectators but they are, they like all others units need production fascilities, time and resources to be made. In big fights medivacs bring low value besides unlocking the option to stim, against banelings, tanks, colossi, disruptor, storm medivacs adds little. It is when its scrappy they give the most value or when dropping obviously. What i was actually thinking was... Considering how much HP a medviac heals over a long drawn out fight where the medviacs are healing 12.6hp a second and rarely do i see them run out of energy then something should be in place to make force terrans to consider how often they stim / drop so they have to conserve some of that energy. You say that the money would be better spent in other units but the medivac is probably the best value unit in the game (apart from free yolo swarm hosts) so a medivac is worth far more in army compared to that resource being used elsewhere when compared with terrans other options. Heres the math as people are saying they see them run out all the time (i never see all medivacs run out of energy which implies the fully heal an army before running out). it may be as people have said depleted ones are used for drops etc and full ones come in to replace them Math: Medivac starts with 50 energy - as per wiki it does 4 hp healing per energy used and can heal up to 12.6 hp per second. A medivac recharge rate is 0.56 per second which equates to 34 energy per min. You get 4 HP per unit of energy and you can use 3 units a second. This means the following When your medivac is built it can heal for 16 seconds straight (50 energy / 3 units a second) with 200 HP to give to units you can build 2 medivacs every 30 seconds so you can get 400HP of healing every 30 seconds. 800HP per minute which is the same as 16 marines just from build times. Then you have regen: You gain 34 energy per min which equates to 136HP (or 11 seconds of constant healing). across 4 medivacs this is 544 HP which is around 11 full marines. In terms of stim this means for every 1 minute a medivac is out you can stim 13 marines once and 20 marines once from when each medivac is built. If you have 4 medivacs out for 1 min after they are built you can stim 134 marines once over the course of that 1 min 30 seconds (providing you have 2 starports with reactors) and fully regen their hp. or 77 marines twice etc.. 30 second build time and 1 min of energy regen (800 initial and 544 regen). to me that just sounds like a lot of healing which is only amplified over the course of say a 4-5 min fight. those 4 medivacs over a 5 min back and forth can heal 3520 hp which to me seems a lot. basically for every minute a medivac is alive (excluding base stats) you can stim 13 marines once which actually doesn't sound that bad (until you add the 20 marine base) and how quickly you can build medivacs. I'm starting to think the base energy might be the reason i never see empty ones  | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19240 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 15 2020 21:15 BisuDagger wrote: When you stim like I do you would be calling for a medivac buff. I don't play bio as much as mech because my medicacs rarely have energy and I hate building them all game lol. I agree, we need 2 healing beams like in the campaign! I like your style!  Also auto-stim FTW | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 15 2020 21:02 La1 wrote: + Show Spoiler + What i was actually thinking was... Considering how much HP a medviac heals over a long drawn out fight where the medviacs are healing 12.6hp a second and rarely do i see them run out of energy then something should be in place to make force terrans to consider how often they stim / drop so they have to conserve some of that energy. You say that the money would be better spent in other units but the medivac is probably the best value unit in the game (apart from free yolo swarm hosts) so a medivac is worth far more in army compared to that resource being used elsewhere when compared with terrans other options. Heres the math as people are saying they see them run out all the time ). it may be as people have said depleted ones are used for drops etc and full ones come in to replace them Math: Medivac starts with 50 energy - as per wiki it does 4 hp healing per energy used and can heal up to 12.6 hp per second. A medivac recharge rate is 0.56 per second which equates to 34 energy per min. You get 4 HP per unit of energy and you can use 3 units a second. This means the following When your medivac is built it can heal for 16 seconds straight (50 energy / 3 units a second) with 200 HP to give to units you can build 2 medivacs every 30 seconds so you can get 400HP of healing every 30 seconds. 800HP per minute which is the same as 16 marines just from build times. Then you have regen: You gain 34 energy per min which equates to 136HP (or 11 seconds of constant healing). across 4 medivacs this is 544 HP which is around 11 full marines. In terms of stim this means for every 1 minute a medivac is out you can stim 13 marines once and 20 marines once from when each medivac is built. If you have 4 medivacs out for 1 min after they are built you can stim 134 marines once over the course of that 1 min 30 seconds (providing you have 2 starports with reactors) and fully regen their hp. or 77 marines twice etc.. 30 second build time and 1 min of energy regen (800 initial and 544 regen). to me that just sounds like a lot of healing which is only amplified over the course of say a 4-5 min fight. those 4 medivacs over a 5 min back and forth can heal 3520 hp which to me seems a lot. basically for every minute a medivac is alive (excluding base stats) you can stim 13 marines once which actually doesn't sound that bad (until you add the 20 marine base) and how quickly you can build medivacs. I'm starting to think the base energy might be the reason i never see empty ones I posted a video with time marks of a pro game where medevacs had depleated energy. The fact you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Actually in many better pro games they will run out of energy because there's constantly something happening. Edit> it more implies that you have to reinforce medevacs and not be fine with the old ones unless you cut the bio production | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
On October 15 2020 19:51 Vision_ wrote: I could be interesting to speak about the "disuse" (abort) of "one upgrade BO" than talking about medivacs. I see in every game 2 upgrades simultaneously BO.. Is it a standart now ? It's much more likely that you'll win the game due to the fact that you're one upgrade ahead than that you'll lose the game because your opponent has a slight army supply advantage due to the fact that they saved money by only researching one of the two upgrades. So the choice between researching 2 upgrades or going for a 1 upgrade build order is an easy one. | ||
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Vision_
861 Posts
On October 15 2020 21:26 algue wrote: It's much more likely that you'll win the game due to the fact that you're one upgrade ahead than that you'll lose the game because your opponent has a slight army supply advantage due to the fact that they saved money by only researching one of the two upgrades. So the choice between researching 2 upgrades or going for a 1 upgrade build order is an easy one. I remember some BO in HoTS with only one upgrade researched, isn t again a loss of tactics in SC2 over time ? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25372 Posts
On October 15 2020 19:37 Vision_ wrote: I would like to see a "standing ground" upgrade for Marines instead of stimpack and test it with the new movement implemented by Blizzard (..keeping space between marines bio ball..). The overall speed units and size of the game will be reduced, marauders will perform with concusive shell in a small area, medivacs will heal lesser due to the remove of stimpack but marines would get a little more hit points. Mines will shot one time and will be placed and linked to a mechwarrior unit (function as broodwar) Then i ll give Frenzy to the ultralisk, give the nydus network to infestator (with the restoration of infested marines).. I would create a building for VCS, Drones and Probes to keep them protected by harrassement and their placement could look like Total Annihilation,.. then the command center (hatchery...) could be reduced to 3x3 and depending his distance from mineral, allow you to build this kind of extractor on mineral fields. And much more for casuals You’re basically cutting out a ton of the flashy bio micro that a lot of players even at a casual level are impressed by and try to emulate. I would agree the game is slightly too fast, especially as engagements scale and all the crazy micro becomes too difficult or inefficient to execute. But hey we all have different tastes! | ||
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Vision_
861 Posts
On October 15 2020 21:39 WombaT wrote: You’re basically cutting out a ton of the flashy bio micro that a lot of players even at a casual level are impressed by and try to emulate. I would agree the game is slightly too fast, especially as engagements scale and all the crazy micro becomes too difficult or inefficient to execute. But hey we all have different tastes! I m thinking the game is turning around and around and i m getting a bit silly as a viewer to wait until they created 16 harvester units by extension plus gas. i remember with nostalgy when you haven t to build 90 vcs and even if i like some features of the economy in LoTV (cause it deserves to be adaptable to the speed of the game), i feel the "return trip" of an harvester unit until his mineral field as an outdated part of the game (..not enought modern..) | ||
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RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:32 ejozl wrote: I agree. I always felt like Medivac Boost should be costing energy, it would've been a really good way to make the energy feel more valuable. Sure. And make warp prism warp ins cost energy too. That would make the warp ins more valuable and wouldnt be used to spam 12 zealots in the main. See what I did there? | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On October 15 2020 22:03 Vision_ wrote: If you can't even spell the "harvester" units, you shouldn't be asserting some sort of view. Anyways 90 scvs is not, and was never a thing, as Terran have Orbital Command. I m thinking the game is turning around and around and i m getting a bit silly as a viewer to wait until they created 16 harvester units by extension plus gas. i remember with nostalgy when you haven t to build 90 vcs and even if i like some features of the economy in LoTV (cause it deserves to be adaptable to the speed of the game), i feel the "return trip" of an harvester unit until his mineral field as an outdated part of the game (..not enought modern..) Workers exist to provide naunce to harassing and attacking econ. To remove the all or nothing part of damaging a base. Workers add depth to the economic system by slowly ramping up a base with investment and with the transferring workers to new bases. An RTS without micro is a game of unit compositions. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
On October 16 2020 01:18 Dangermousecatdog wrote: If you can't even spell the "harvester" units, you shouldn't be asserting some sort of view. Anyways 90 scvs is not, and was never a thing, as Terran have Orbital Command. Workers exist to provide naunce to harassing and attacking econ. To remove the all or nothing part of damaging a base. Workers add depth to the economic system by slowly ramping up a base with investment and with the transferring workers to new bases. An RTS without micro is a game of unit compositions. There was a period where TY was making 100 scvs | ||
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
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Vision_
861 Posts
On October 16 2020 02:07 Argonauta wrote: There was a period where TY was making 100 scvs Yes but people here do like if they have never understood | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
As an alternative the maximum energy could be reduced. | ||
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Joneleth
Denmark90 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
On October 16 2020 02:43 Freeborn wrote: +1 for boost costs energy. As an alternative the maximum energy could be reduced. Sure, if that means the medivacs will now heal 2 units at a time while moving and healing costing less energy, I would be fine with it. Only sounds fair no? | ||
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