|
I have been lurking forever and a thought came across my mind today so i wanted to get your thoughts 
I find that medivacs almost always have energy (expect for really long extended fights) meaning terrans stim for everything. even if the stim costs their army 1000 hp in health they will still stim to catch an observer or a roach that they probably would have not got anyway. They even stim to kill single scouting marines in TvT.
I think they spam the stim button for every engagement because they always have medivac energy (i assume due to the recharge rate) and there is no repercussions for constantly stimming.
I wouldn't want to affect current engagements so i was wondering would a reduction to the energy recharge rate of medivacs force terrans to think a little more about stimming for everything?
In TvT this strategic use of stimming could be a game decider.
I feel it would add a little more skill to the game.. Thoughts?
edit: i also feel this would bring the energy use aspect in line with other energy using units that players have to actively manage during the game
Vipers - go recharge on buildings
HT's - Turn used HT's into archons, manage energy and conservative storms on army's
Ghosts - Need conservative use of EMP.
please note i don't play sc2 now and have never played terran so i have NO idea if it feels like this in games but i watch a lot of games and seeing medviacs constantly healing and constant stiming just seems like something that is taken for granted but i am happy to accept if i am wrong and stupid :D
|
I think that reducing medivac energy regen would lead to less fighting in general rather than specifically less stimming which I think just makes the game strictly worse.
|
I agree. I always felt like Medivac Boost should be costing energy, it would've been a really good way to make the energy feel more valuable.
|
My gues would be that T would just response with more medivacs to such a nerf, just like Z responded with even more banelings to the baneling nerf.
Also this would be a pretty big one, as it would affect the overall strength of the entire Bio - playstile, so it could also shift the meta way more towards mech instead.
I m not convinced, that it would be a good change and it would 100% be a pretty risky thing for Blizz to do.
All that combined with the fact, that number tweaking is usually not realy a big deal for 95% of the playerbase, I don t belive such a change is ever even going to be considered.
|
On October 14 2020 21:32 ejozl wrote:
I agree. I always felt like Medivac Boost should be costing energy, it would've been a really good way to make the energy feel more valuable.
Or at least they DON'T regen energy while boosting would be nice.
There are alot of fights in TvZ where both have their army decimated and suddenly every marine has his own healbot and is basically invincible. This pisses me of both as a player and as a spectator.
The only semi reliable way for zerg to get rid of medivacs is viper and/or corruptor. Mutas and Hydras are not an option vs marine + mine / tanks
|
I'm not sure I agree with the premise--overstimming does have consequences currently--but even if that were the case this seems like a very dangerous thing to nerf for not much benefit. Terran tempo being slowed or the number of medivacs being increased doesn't make for better viewing.
|
France12886 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:46 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 21:32 ejozl wrote:
I agree. I always felt like Medivac Boost should be costing energy, it would've been a really good way to make the energy feel more valuable. There are alot of fights in TvZ where both have their army decimated and suddenly every marine has his own healbot and is basically invincible. This pisses me of both as a player and as a spectator. The only semi reliable way for zerg to get rid of medivacs is viper and/or corruptor. Mutas and Hydras are not an option vs marine + mine / tanks
? well you have units that cost mineral and gas so thankfully they have a purpose?
And you can catch medivacs with mutas a lot of the time actually, that is why it is hard to drop vs mutas for example.
|
Back when feedback was actually good it would be common to keep your medevac energy below the current / max HP of the unit, because otherwise it would be an easy one-shot for very little energy. Using EMP on medevacs isn't unheard of, either, plus they can be disabled by ravens or simply zoned out with high range AA units (vikings, thors, tempests, carriers).
Zerg don't have a way to target or hurt a unit's energy directly, so the indirect methods would be to inflict splash damage onto units or bait spells.That's just a quirk of the race; luckily they have many sources of splash damage and fast movers to force survival stims (for bonus speed on retreat).
|
I guess as a spectator you can probably argue that in games of TY, Maru and Inno, where they make really strong pushes and micro effectively. They also tend to keep building Medivacs since they loose one or two in every other engagement, hence, they will always have medivacs with energy.
If you over stim your units you will always drain medivac energy, that is why they always select a small chunk of their army to catch something (observer, roach, etc.) even to scout ahead of their army. The games that end in medivacs depleting their energy always goes south for the terran playing bio.
|
Northern Ireland25353 Posts
More importantly why are we not seeing more players make use of that sweet, sweet medivac speed upgrade?
|
Well, it is locked behind the fusion core, so if you never intended to make BCs or get Liberators it's an afterthought. Since it doesn't increase your speed during afterburners, there's not much of a benefit to investing in the upgrade when your plan is to crush face with a 2-2 bio 200 supply timing. Maybe we'll see more of it as the other races get better at actually killing the medivacs, who knows?
|
Obviously overpowered for a casual player.. not imbalanced for a pro
|
Medivacs run out of energy all the time. In TvT and TvP especially you can't really afford to sit there and constantly produce medivacs, you need libs/vikings. So it's basically inevitable that if you're taking a lot of fights with 4-6 medivacs then they will run out. If you nerf that, you're forcing terran to play more defensively which given the construction of this game is doom.
|
On October 14 2020 21:46 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2020 21:32 ejozl wrote:
I agree. I always felt like Medivac Boost should be costing energy, it would've been a really good way to make the energy feel more valuable. Or at least they DON'T regen energy while boosting would be nice. There are alot of fights in TvZ where both have their army decimated and suddenly every marine has his own healbot and is basically invincible. This pisses me of both as a player and as a spectator. The only semi reliable way for zerg to get rid of medivacs is viper and/or corruptor. Mutas and Hydras are not an option vs marine + mine / tanks
See i didn't even know boost was free! That would at least put more play into dropping.
As a spectator i also find it funny when the fight has just finished outside a players base and the terran is left with like 3 maurders and 5 marines but the game is over because each has it's own medivac and any units made can't out dammage the amount of healing so it's gg!
|
Speaking just for PvT, picking off medivacs is an important aspect of the matchup to prevent the horrible situation when theres 8 marauders and a smattering of marines under 8 medivacs while I only have 14 or so units left over myself. I think it's good to keep open that kind of extra priority.
|
I see medivac energie running out quite often. I dont think this is a good idea.
|
Destiny yesterday went on a mini rant about this exact subject
|
Has the Medivac energy regen ever been looked at?
It kinda has been. Not exactly the energy regen rate, which is the same for all units and buildings, but the amount of HP regenerated per 1 energy. During the HotS to LotV transition Blizzard made some undocumented changes to previously existed units, such as buffing lings adrenal from 20% to 40% without giving any reasons. One of those ninja buffs was medivac healing rate. There is no patch note for this change but according to Liquipedia LotV medivac heals 33% more HP for the same amount of energy than its WoL/HotS version. So I guess this state of affairs is exactly what balance team wants, otherwise they wouldn't make that change.
|
I think if your goal is to create games that look different or have more skill or "strategic use of stimming" then this won't really do much. In my opinion, at best, it would produce similar-looking games in which terran was just incrementally weaker, and at worst it would discourage active play (and lead to some really rough to watch TvTs).
|
On October 15 2020 02:15 La1 wrote:
See i didn't even know boost was free! That would at least put more play into dropping.
As a spectator i also find it funny when the fight has just finished outside a players base and the terran is left with like 3 maurders and 5 marines but the game is over because each has it's own medivac and any units made can't out dammage the amount of healing so it's gg!
So what you are saying terran had 8 medivacs over, they effectively won the fight with. 800 minerals and 800 gas worth of units plus marauders and marines. Imagine that would have been three tanks/immortals instead, no one would be surprised or "amused" the players survived the fight with that much army value and won the game. Medivacs might not be considered army by spectators but they are, they like all others units need production fascilities, time and resources to be made.
In big fights medivacs bring low value besides unlocking the option to stim, against banelings, tanks, colossi, disruptor, storm medivacs adds little. It is when its scrappy they give the most value or when dropping obviously.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
