|
|
On July 22 2020 06:53 lolfail9001 wrote:
Well, i am personally not going to miss him.
Matter of fact, this is probably one of rare cases i actually could not care less about, it's just a shame they had to use harassment allegation/case as an excuse instead of being straightforward and just banning him for being PoS he is a long time ago, though.
To be honest they probably had enough dirt on him for misconduct before any sexual harassment allegations, it's surprising the ESL ban didn't come much sooner. For all we know it could be the result of an unrelated process that had been going on for a very long time.
|
I believe ESL has a point system for behavior, hacking, etc in the rulebook.
|
On July 21 2020 06:34 Warcloud wrote:
This post is proof that being toxic makes you more popular than being a good starcraft player.
being popular is mostly toxic anyway, you're not missing out
|
How would you know fayth? 
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Did US law and processes caught with the e-harassment? Years ago it was pretty hard to get anything done about this stuff.
|
I wrote a huge post but decided not to post it, so here is a shorter version. I've been following the abuse allegations in the video game industry and I feel like reading people's experience has helped me understand it better. Obviously I know abuse is wrong, but as I've never experienced it, reading what the victim's endured gave me context and I feel I understand better.
I tried watching Avilo stream once years and years ago at the suggestion of a friend but after maybe 10 minutes I couldn't get into it and never watched again. Outside of that, all I know about Avilo and Atira are what I've read in these threads and in their allegation + response.
Avilo's document didn't help him much in my opinion. It could have been structured better and been more concise. Many of the images and text are repeated throughout the document - maybe the images are understandable since one image might help him with multiple points, but the constant reiteration of his case made it seem delusional in a way - if I keep repeating the same thing over and over, maybe people will believe me.
Many of the images don't help, either. Oftentimes he links an image and gives context in his text, but the image itself does not show that it is indeed about what he claims. Anyone can take parts of a discussion and change its context to prove a point, so he should have made it a point to always include the parts of the text conversation that show the topic indeed matches what he says. Sometimes the pictures do this, but in some cases it is him adding the subject in his text after the text she writes that he is pointing out. Something like her saying yes and him saying something related to one of his points after - conversations change rapidly online so I'm not confident her texts are on that same subject.
Most of the pictures have a date of "Today" (presumably because of when the screenshot was taken) but that makes it harder for me to confirm the timeline, and honestly I don't feel like I understand the timeline very well from his perspective. It seemed all over the place.
I didn't watch the ~2.5 hour Youtube video linked in his document but it seemed like it was just a slideshow of pictures to help his case.
Overall, I feel bad for both of them. I'm inclined to believe Atira because many people are being very brave and coming forward. There are of course rare cases of false allegations, and I know it would stink to lose things because of false allegations, but think of the victims who have lost things because of the true experiences they have had. I don't think these cases are "innocent until proven guilty" and it seems like BS that people expect it to be that way. Honestly, I don't even know how most of these people even have screenshots to show. I'd be hard pressed to find texts or messages I sent years ago. In many of these cases it is he-said/she-said because there just isn't any evidence available that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is guilty. It wouldn't be feasible to bring all of these cases to court (financial reasons, time, bandwidth of the court system, who knows what else).
I don't envy people in a position that have to make a decision related to these cases, like ESL with banning Avilo. Maybe in this case it is easy because apparently he has been toxic for years, but I'm talking generally speaking. I think the best most of us can do is just at least listen and try to understand what people are going through, from both perspectives. I know some people are pro-Avilo and think Atira is lying and ruining Avilo's life, while there are anti-Avilo people who want to watch his world crumble. If everyone not personally affected (friends/family of the involved?) could just take a step back and try listening, actually hearing, and acknowledging how each party feels, the world would already be a better place. Acknowledging other people's emotions and feelings doesn't cost anything.
I empathize with both people. I personally feel that both parties made mistakes and both parties should have completely cut ties much sooner for their own well being. I look at it kind of like my first relationship. My gf at the time and I both made mistakes, it didn't end amicably, and I thank god that I learned so much throughout my various relationships. My wife wouldn't put up with the dumbass and relationship-noob I was all those years ago. Obviously I didn't experience anything as crappy as these two people, but I do know how depression, anxiety, loneliness, desire for attention - all of that - can impact your state of mind and I just feel like it didn't do either of these people any favors. I hope they can grow and become better people and that they have the support they need to try and "move on" from here.
Edited to fix some wording... sorry this is so long. I put so much time into reading all these allegations and I guess I word vomited
|
thats a very nice post SaTiN!
|
Looks like this entire thread and many other places are suppressing the information for people to make a valid opinion. avilo released a statement that for some reason is not being discussed here, and a few users were banned for.
User was banned for this post.
|
On July 22 2020 19:43 supressionofinfo wrote:Looks like this entire thread and many other places are suppressing the information for people to make a valid opinion. avilo released a statement that for some reason is not being discussed here, and a few users were banned for. https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/1285283192782675971
Avilo's response is posted on the first page of this thread, what are you talking about?
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 22 2020 19:58 Sr18 wrote:Avilo's response is posted on the first page of this thread, what are you talking about?
Homeland security conspiracy level!
|
On July 22 2020 20:06 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2020 19:58 Sr18 wrote:On July 22 2020 19:43 supressionofinfo wrote:Looks like this entire thread and many other places are suppressing the information for people to make a valid opinion. avilo released a statement that for some reason is not being discussed here, and a few users were banned for. https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/1285283192782675971 Avilo's response is posted on the first page of this thread, what are you talking about? Homeland security conspiracy level!
It's a new/fake user, whose tone is clearly biased.
|
On July 22 2020 17:20 deacon.frost wrote:
Did US law and processes caught with the e-harassment? Years ago it was pretty hard to get anything done about this stuff.
I think it's pretty easy to process this stuff. If anything, american law has been more at the forefront of things like this/other internet crimes such as revenge porn and so on. There are just separate problems on the side of what the accuser/person who is going to take legal action wishes to do, if it's worth it, or how it may affect their immediate social circle... there is a lot there for them to think about
I am still rather amazed at how this story continues to play out in our community. I'm almost starting to wonder if it will just continue on with random updates over time. As others have mentioned, it seems like any further legal action is unlikely without some huge spark. Hopefully it stays at this level and such an escalation never occurs... but... well... we've already gone up a few levels from where this all was a while ago... so who knows... @_@;;
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 22 2020 20:31 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2020 17:20 deacon.frost wrote:
Did US law and processes caught with the e-harassment? Years ago it was pretty hard to get anything done about this stuff. I think it's pretty easy to process this stuff. If anything, american law has been more at the forefront of things like this/other internet crimes such as revenge porn and so on. There are just separate problems on the side of what the accuser/person who is going to take legal action wishes to do, if it's worth it, or how it may affect their immediate social circle... there is a lot there for them to think about I am still rather amazed at how this story continues to play out in our community. I'm almost starting to wonder if it will just continue on with random updates over time. As others have mentioned, it seems like any further legal action is unlikely without some huge spark. Hopefully it stays at this level and such an escalation never occurs... but... well... we've already gone up a few levels from where this all was a while ago... so who knows... @_@;;
Coolio, thanks for the update!
|
On July 22 2020 04:33 BisuDagger wrote:
Regardless of being guilty, platforms and organizers have a right to deny anyone who doesn't adhere to their policies and ethics as a player. It's clear that the drama he brings is negative and they are right to distance themselves. I think they have done a great job in being patient and seeing if he could move past this drama, but clearly he was incapable doing that. It's unfortunate anyone has to be banned and in this case it's a tough decision that good people are forced to make based on a mess of good and bad information.
Well said sir. Beyond that even, it would be a potentially questionable ToS violation to platform and promote a permabanned streamer on another twitch channel
|
I find Avilo's response being OMG. In the sense that he has seemingly no self-awareness.
He paints himself as the victim of others. I did not read through the entire thing as it is just too long, but every part I read is to show alleged misbehavior of others. With the many chat screenshots, he plays a bad power game "exposing" Atira. She posted a few chat excerpts as evidence, now he overdoes it by several magnitudes.
There is video on Youtube where Avilo stalked Atira. There is audio where he shouts at his "love". And yet, in his mind, he seems to view himself as victim because Atira also kept contact to other men. He puts a lot of effort into describing the purportedly bad character of others.
He accuses Atira of damaging his reputation. Not noting his own contribution. He continues to name others who in his mind worked against him. While there is a lot of evidence even before Atira's posting, about countless uncomfortable situations created by an unhinged, angry, stalking Avilo.
I could see that a couple of those might be a biiig misunderstanding. But there is too much where Avilo damages himself that I cannot even begin to align his view with the evidence available.
|
Hello amigos, just posting cause one thing bothered me about this sc2 jerry springer saga.
Imagine you're Atira. Getting harassed by Avilo constantly to the point where you have to call the cops, make him hire a lawyer, etc. He brings up your kids, he stalks you from alt accounts constantly. He generally is acting like a crazy ass weirdo.
Why then, in the name of Zeus' BUTTHOLE, would you meet him IRL? This is the timeline Atira presented, I didn't read avilo's 41 page doc. Just, why meet him, after all that? These are the deep questions of the universe that keep me up at night. Thank you for any insight.
User was banned for this post.
|
On July 22 2020 19:43 supressionofinfo wrote:Looks like this entire thread and many other places are suppressing the information for people to make a valid opinion. avilo released a statement that for some reason is not being discussed here, and a few users were banned for. https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/1285283192782675971User was banned for this post.
User banned for this post? What the actual fuck is happening here?
Avilo obviously is in the wrong here but this goes too far...
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 22 2020 23:01 Rainmansc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2020 19:43 supressionofinfo wrote:Looks like this entire thread and many other places are suppressing the information for people to make a valid opinion. avilo released a statement that for some reason is not being discussed here, and a few users were banned for. https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/1285283192782675971User was banned for this post. User banned for this post? What the actual fuck is happening here? Avilo obviously is in the wrong here but this goes too far...
Yes, because the link is in the first post and those 2 posts this user posted are just about linking the tweet.
|
It's not in the first post anymore. If it ever was.
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
