Avilo banned from ESL and DreamHack
Forum Index > SC2 General |
This thread is related to the harassment/abuse thread that was posted earlier last month. https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/560609-harassment-abuse-in-starcraft-2 Spreading misinformation will absolutely not be tolerated. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite victim blaming. Be very wary of what you post. | ||
KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
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Z3nith
485 Posts
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mikedupp
233 Posts
was really annoying seeing avilo hold half of a bracket hostage by staying in lost games so long. good job ESL. | ||
Rubicant1
115 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8162 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
He won't be missed, in any case. | ||
vult
United States9386 Posts
On July 21 2020 01:53 geokilla wrote: What happened this time? More and more drama reaching a tipping point it seems. Given the sensitivity of times lately, especially with the sexual harassment allegations coming to light in the esports scene, including incidents involving Avilo, it is safe to say that ESL is cutting ties before anything worse happens. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
On July 21 2020 01:53 pvsnp wrote: Wasn't he already banned? I remember reading about a ban recently. He won't be missed, in any case. I believe he was suspended for 2 weeks which ended yesterday maybe? I guess ESL suspended him for 2 weeks while going over everything and then decided to permanently ban him. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
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Jacenoob
299 Posts
www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/hf56yn/sexual_harassment_emotional_abuse_bdsm_abuse_and/ | ||
Blargh
United States2073 Posts
How could she do that to him....?? Just FYI, this ban probably had nothing to do with his behavior in-game and all to do with his behavior out-of-game. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
On July 21 2020 02:34 Blargh wrote: "He would become angry when I would use other streamers emotes in our dm's." How could she do that to him....?? Just FYI, this ban probably had nothing to do with his behavior in-game and all to do with his behavior out-of-game. he brought the harassment in game and in the designated channel for ESL weekly cups. | ||
RPR_Tempest
Australia7788 Posts
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SlyZ1
39 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23567 Posts
No way I will read this, but I guess he has the right to tell his story and maybe someone is interesed. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Scs0t06_FQhf63JJDgiifXjc6EBGhlWAMaXzycPj-bc/edit | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
On July 21 2020 03:59 Musicus wrote: Avilo just posted a 41 page google doc eplaining his side and "clearing his name". No way I will read this, but I guess he has the right to tell his story and maybe someone is interesed. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Scs0t06_FQhf63JJDgiifXjc6EBGhlWAMaXzycPj-bc/edit I read two pages and hes arguing this woman who he says was married divorced for him and then proceeded to cheat on him. Not much more to read after that. | ||
TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 21 2020 04:17 TelecoM wrote: I may grab a bag of popcorn for this 41 page Avilo explanation, this has got to be good. I wish someone would read it / summarize it in a video in a humorous way instead. =P If anyone can make it through all 41 pages (with additional hyperlink sources) they deserve a fucking medal. I’m only on page 1 and my brain is already hurting. | ||
TT1
Canada9926 Posts
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Falling
Canada10904 Posts
On July 21 2020 03:59 Musicus wrote: Avilo just posted a 41 page google doc eplaining his side and "clearing his name". No way I will read this, but I guess he has the right to tell his story and maybe someone is interesed. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Scs0t06_FQhf63JJDgiifXjc6EBGhlWAMaXzycPj-bc/edit A couple years ago, when we were figuring out what to do with Avilo based on other accusations, I bothered to listen to hours and hours of him 'telling his side of the story'- Destiny was trying to talk him down for some reason. Anyways, from that I concluded there is a tendency to imagine relationship where there is none, and when told no he is seemingly incapable of letting go in any sort of healthy manner with constant attempts to circumvent blocked communications, extreme accusations, cyclical patterns of thinking himself as the victim and that there is conspiracy against him. Looked like a very negative, unhealthy paranoid cycle of thinking back then. Doesn't look like things improved. I'm just glad TL was ahead of the curve in cutting him loose. I just hope he can find a path out. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
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AlgeriaT
Sweden2195 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On July 21 2020 04:17 TelecoM wrote: I may grab a bag of popcorn for this 41 page Avilo explanation, this has got to be good. I wish someone would read it / summarize it in a video in a humorous way instead. =P I wait for the movie. Avilo should have been banned from streaming platforms for some time already. Same applies for SC2 professional. | ||
aringadingding
468 Posts
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outscar
2788 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 21 2020 04:25 Falling wrote: A couple years ago, when we were figuring out what to do with Avilo based on other accusations, I bothered to listen to hours and hours of him 'telling his side of the story'- Destiny was trying to talk him down for some reason. Anyways, from that I concluded there is a tendency to imagine relationship where there is none, and when told no he is seemingly incapable of letting go in any sort of healthy manner with constant attempts to circumvent blocked communications, extreme accusations, cyclical patterns of thinking himself as the victim and that there is conspiracy against him. Looked like a very negative, unhealthy paranoid cycle of thinking back then. Doesn't look like things improved. I'm just glad TL was ahead of the curve in cutting him loose. I just hope he can find a path out. That must have been exhausting. I concur, hope he can. Not sure how that happens given how warped his view on reality but I think most people would rather not see a train wreck continue in perpetuity. As an aside would be nice if ESL had given an actual reason for the ban. I’m assuming quite a lot of people who follow SC2 aren’t particularly au fait with what Avilo’s been up to, seems that way from some of the responses to the Tweet anyway. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
Because I cared about her I looked up the SSRI medicine online that she told me she was prescribed called escitalopram or lexapro. I looked up the side effects https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/escitalopram-oral-tablet#important-warnings A lot of the side effects seemed worse than what the medicine would be trying to help her with, and I told her I was worried about her taking it and that it would turn her into a zombie, or increase her thoughts of suicide since she mentioned to me about suicidal thoughts previously...so yes, I did tell her I was worried and to not take it and I had her best interests at heart when I told her this." This just makes Avilo look so much worse. Jesus christ he is a monster. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42201 Posts
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whiterabbit
2675 Posts
Ohh noooo competitive scene lost 5k mech terran player, we will need time to recover from this I am sure. Did he ever advance higher than 2nd round in those open cups? | ||
followZeRoX
Serbia1419 Posts
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zalem95
Peru183 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 21 2020 06:18 zalem95 wrote: I've seen this guy Avilo play since 2011 and I quickly realize that he got serious mental problems is a shock that no one in his family or close friends have told him to seek guidance or mental help... its sad though. For the record, over the past 10+ years Avilo has on occasion flamed me on both GR.Org and on TL.Net. On July 21 2020 02:02 Wombat_NI wrote: Took a while, rather bloody overdue Avilo is a borderline case. I strongly prefer how TL dealt with him on here and I'm glad it took a while for him to get banned on here. I prefer to live in a tolerant community that gives people who misbehave in minor ways several additional chances. Avilo was given several chances.. he ran out of them... now he is gone. Fair treatment for behaviour misconduct is never perfect ... at best it can be approximately correct. I think Dreamhack, TL , and ESL dealt with Avilo as close to correct as one can hope. | ||
Warcloud
United States97 Posts
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3302 Posts
On July 21 2020 03:59 Musicus wrote: Avilo just posted a 41 page google doc explaining his side and "clearing his name". No way I will read this, but I guess he has the right to tell his story and maybe someone is interested. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Scs0t06_FQhf63JJDgiifXjc6EBGhlWAMaXzycPj-bc/edit After reading the first 11 pages I am done. He posted so much of his kinky conversations on Discord with Atira, it's honestly unsettling. Apparently Avilo claims that he never forced Atira to do anything that was non-consensual, and judging by the discord provided, it seems he is believable. but 11 pages is quite enough, I have a headache now | ||
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
Does ESL need to give any explanation for the ban? (actual reasons are obvious just wondering if there's any potential consequences of them not giving an official reason. I know in the US with sports leagues there's all sorts of anti trust and agreements with the players that cause issues see Ray Rice for example). | ||
jimminy_kriket
Canada5466 Posts
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KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
On July 21 2020 08:06 jimminy_kriket wrote: Theres currently someone named atira signed up for the ESL NA cup. Who wants to bet that it is avilo? That's actually her: twitch.tv/atira | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 21 2020 06:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote: For the record, over the past 10+ years Avilo has on occasion flamed me on both GR.Org and on TL.Net. Avilo is a borderline case. I strongly prefer how TL dealt with him on here and I'm glad it took a while for him to get banned on here. I prefer to live in a tolerant community that gives people who misbehave in minor ways several additional chances. Avilo was given several chances.. he ran out of them... now he is gone. Fair treatment for behaviour misconduct is never perfect ... at best it can be approximately correct. I think Dreamhack, TL , and ESL dealt with Avilo as close to correct as one can hope. I do like TL’s general approach to redemption for sure. I wouldn’t consider Avilo as remotely borderline at this point though. Every time he gets a ban from one platform or another he gets actively worse. | ||
jimminy_kriket
Canada5466 Posts
oh I didn't know she actively played. Good to know, seemed like a total avilo thing to do though. | ||
ProtossTears
3 Posts
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MinixTheNerd
200 Posts
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col_jung
139 Posts
On July 21 2020 03:59 Musicus wrote: Avilo just posted a 41 page google doc eplaining his side and "clearing his name". No way I will read this, but I guess he has the right to tell his story and maybe someone is interesed. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Scs0t06_FQhf63JJDgiifXjc6EBGhlWAMaXzycPj-bc/edit Thanks for posting this. I just read Atira's post and was immediately curious if Avilo had made a reply. I believe it's important to have both sides of the story before commenting. | ||
jimminy_kriket
Canada5466 Posts
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ProTech
United States427 Posts
I don't quite know how you would confirm the validity of the screenshots but either way, I don't really think Avilo has much to lose at this point, and as far as I know all the criminal charges were dropped in his case. I think it's about time people start looking at the other side of the story, rather than incriminating him because you simply don't like him. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 21 2020 11:54 ProTech wrote: While I don't think Avilo is all there psychologically, that 41 page thesis about what happened does look rather compelling and makes you wonder if this was just a stunt from atira to gain followers/subs/donators. I don't quite know how you would confirm the validity of the screenshots but either way, I don't really think Avilo has much to lose at this point, and as far as I know all the criminal charges were dropped in his case. I think it's about time people start looking at the other side of the story, rather than incriminating him because you simply don't like him. Compelling how? The way he frames things, not to mention the whole 41 pages of rambling and dumping private stuff out there isn’t a defence so much as a validation of the charges. If I was some arbiter, who knew nothing of either party and Atira came in alleging harassment, I asked Avilo for his counter and he presented that document I’d just grant her the restraining order immediately. Your bar for believing accusations of harassment seems to be orders of magnitude beyond your bar for believing someone is maphacking. | ||
KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
On July 21 2020 04:17 TelecoM wrote: I may grab a bag of popcorn for this 41 page Avilo explanation, this has got to be good. I wish someone would read it / summarize it in a video in a humorous way instead. =P | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
On July 21 2020 11:54 ProTech wrote: While I don't think Avilo is all there psychologically, that 41 page thesis about what happened does look rather compelling and makes you wonder if this was just a stunt from atira to gain followers/subs/donators. I don't quite know how you would confirm the validity of the screenshots but either way, I don't really think Avilo has much to lose at this point, and as far as I know all the criminal charges were dropped in his case. I think it's about time people start looking at the other side of the story, rather than incriminating him because you simply don't like him. she gets like 80-150 viewers before and after this madness. why don't you look up her viewer statistics before making this incredibly ignorant post. the only part of the story I care about is atira saying "no" and "stop". | ||
DeepElemBlues
United States5075 Posts
Doctor avilo telling people to stop taking their medication because Doctor avilo's deviant needs are supreme. Those kinds of medicines can have seriously bad effects when not taken the way a doctor instructs you to take them, which includes just stopping out of nowhere because deeply troubled e-guy tells you to. (I don't know if atira did stop taking her PRESCRIPTION MEDICINE PRESCRIBED BY A REAL DOCTOR, I hope she didn't unless at a real doctor's direction.) | ||
I wasbanned fromthis
113 Posts
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Falling
Canada10904 Posts
On July 21 2020 12:13 Wombat_NI wrote: Compelling how? The way he frames things, not to mention the whole 41 pages of rambling and dumping private stuff out there isn’t a defence so much as a validation of the charges. If I was some arbiter, who knew nothing of either party and Atira came in alleging harassment, I asked Avilo for his counter and he presented that document I’d just grant her the restraining order immediately. Your bar for believing accusations of harassment seems to be orders of magnitude beyond your bar for believing someone is maphacking. Not to mention, the guy's got a track record. Like ilikeredheads was saying before Atira was Maria (though not in exactly the same way). I watched 3 hours and 40 minutes as Destiny tried to talk him down. Three hours and forty minutes that I will never get back on his 'proofs' (mostly claims that he had them, but wouldn't show) and cyclical argumentation back then. In that case, he was utilizing as evidence some reddit account that was supposed to be Maria's... she didn't even use reddit. He also had made up screenshots (or at least screenshots of things she never said- at best he was trolled by someone pretending to be Maria. At worst he faked them himself.) Point is- he's had very bad 'evidence' in the past. In that case, Maria asked many times for him to stop- the guy can't take no for an answer. Kept claiming she was being manipulated by others (that paranoid, conspiratorial mindset). As far as I can tell, incapable of admitting fault for any length of time (at best a temporary admittance, loop back into more accusations of conspiracy and his own victim hood.) He's not in a good state and writing a 40 pages is pretty good evidence that he's not in a good state. | ||
MockHamill
Sweden1793 Posts
But he cleary has mental problems. I hope he gets professional help. In a way he reminds me of Trump. An entertainer unable to see his own mental problems, instead always blaiming someone else. | ||
RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
This girl saying her mental health was deteriorating?? I call BS on that. Blocking someone takes literally 1 second on any platform. The fact she couldnt find a way to get this parasite out of her life is on her 100%. | ||
sharkie
Austria17988 Posts
On July 21 2020 14:15 RandomPlayer416 wrote: Okay I'm not sticking up for Avilo, he clearly has issues and his idea of a relationship between 2 people is pretty wacked out. But this girl is to blame as well. If you look at the screen shots Avilo posted, clearly she was playing with him or leading him on. Maybe not to a regular person but to someone as weird as Avilo, he would cling to the things she says and cherish the thought of fooling around with a woman. This girl saying her mental health was deteriorating?? I call BS on that. Blocking someone takes literally 1 second on any platform. The fact she couldnt find a way to get this parasite out of her life is on her 100%. These kinds of drama you usually find the truth in between both. Pretty sure Atira lied about things (I only looked at a few screenshots but this is far from being a total victim) but this doesn't excuse Avilo's behaviour. | ||
h20Fanatic
22 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
On July 21 2020 14:02 MockHamill wrote: In a way he reminds me of Trump. /thread | ||
ProTech
United States427 Posts
On July 21 2020 14:15 RandomPlayer416 wrote: Okay I'm not sticking up for Avilo, he clearly has issues and his idea of a relationship between 2 people is pretty wacked out. But this girl is to blame as well. If you look at the screen shots Avilo posted, clearly she was playing with him or leading him on. Maybe not to a regular person but to someone as weird as Avilo, he would cling to the things she says and cherish the thought of fooling around with a woman. This girl saying her mental health was deteriorating?? I call BS on that. Blocking someone takes literally 1 second on any platform. The fact she couldnt find a way to get this parasite out of her life is on her 100%. Correct, but you're going to have a really hard time getting reasonable people to validate that point. It's just kinda how it works with unlikeable streamers. | ||
shadow4723
87 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On July 21 2020 15:44 ProTech wrote: Correct, but you're going to have a really hard time getting reasonable people to validate that point. It's just kinda how it works with unlikeable streamers. If I understand the case correctly Avilo can't take "NO" for an aswer. I can understand trying to change her mind about the first one, but 50th? C'mon. | ||
ProTech
United States427 Posts
On July 21 2020 16:20 deacon.frost wrote: If I understand the case correctly Avilo can't take "NO" for an aswer. I can understand trying to change her mind about the first one, but 50th? C'mon. Bottom line is, if you look at the timeline and the imgurs you can clearly see that at some point in time Atira was obviously either 1) playing along, or 2) using avilo as a means to gain followers/viewers. She clearly was interested at some point. It's mere speculation on my part, simply because I have no way to validate if the accounts shown in the imgur are actually her accounts or not. Regardless, I don't think Avilo has anything to lie about, and I know for a fact that people will often times try to be in cahoots with a streamer in one way or another to use them for exposure. What I don't like, is seeing forums like reddit and others who clearly don't read or look at the evidence presented and just dismiss it because they tuned into his stream for 5 minutes and instantly didn't like the person. There is good evidence here that shows atira was either playing a long OR was actually trying to have a relationship with Avilo. I think any reasonable person would simply block the user on social media if they truly wanted the "harassment" to stop. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
DomeGetta
480 Posts
On July 21 2020 16:55 ProTech wrote: Bottom line is, if you look at the timeline and the imgurs you can clearly see that at some point in time Atira was obviously either 1) playing along, or 2) using avilo as a means to gain followers/viewers. She clearly was interested at some point. It's mere speculation on my part, simply because I have no way to validate if the accounts shown in the imgur are actually her accounts or not. Regardless, I don't think Avilo has anything to lie about, and I know for a fact that people will often times try to be in cahoots with a streamer in one way or another to use them for exposure. What I don't like, is seeing forums like reddit and others who clearly don't read or look at the evidence presented and just dismiss it because they tuned into his stream for 5 minutes and instantly didn't like the person. There is good evidence here that shows atira was either playing a long OR was actually trying to have a relationship with Avilo. I think any reasonable person would simply block the user on social media if they truly wanted the "harassment" to stop. Yah - people can say what they want about Avilo (I personally have never been able to stand anything about him) - but if you read any of what he posted that girl should receive equal treatment from the esports industry and court of public opinion. This is exactly why people don't take "me too" issues as seriously as they should - because you have psychos like this girl using it as a platform to fuck over somebody she had a change of heart about. It's probably moot though since such a large majority of the community is made up of sexually frustrated nerds who see an attractive girl and have a seizure. Twitch won't do shit - and everyone will continue on flaming avilo (which he deserves - but not for this). User was temp banned for this post. | ||
ProTech
United States427 Posts
On July 21 2020 18:13 DomeGetta wrote: Yah - people can say what they want about Avilo (I personally have never been able to stand anything about him) - but if you read any of what he posted that girl should receive equal treatment from the esports industry and court of public opinion. This is exactly why people don't take "me too" issues as seriously as they should - because you have psychos like this girl using it as a platform to fuck over somebody she had a change of heart about. It's probably moot though since such a large majority of the community is made up of sexually frustrated nerds who see an attractive girl and have a seizure. Twitch won't do shit - and everyone will continue on flaming avilo (which he deserves - but not for this). That kinda the problem IMO though. Twtich ended up banning his account, and gave him absolutely no way to tell the other side of the story aside from platforms where he's hated like TL or Reddit. However, to say with conviction that she should be treated the same way is kind of a hard thing to do, because for all I know Avilo could be photo shopping and cropping images, I don't know how to validate the usernames in those imgurs. In my mind its pretty likely that he isn't lying because he's probably already come to terms with the fact that even if the truth does get out, he'll probably not get unbanned from twitch. I just don't see what he has to lose. | ||
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom8712 Posts
Anyway one thing I definitely agree with Atira about is avilo getting a job. The guy needs to get a job that doesn't involve him having 'fans' (incredibly toxic fans). He needs a boss and a fucking routine and all that other stuff that crushes ego. | ||
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
The imgur chats are easy to fake (though that tweeting guy 2 posts up is obviously full of shit since why would you go out and say that when you've actually gone through of faking them, doesn't make sense.) but what other proof would he have to show unless he was recording things on audio that time? Chat logs are usually saved, so he could go back and find them (unlikely he saved all of these back then) but sadly for him they don't prove that much. | ||
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
I had previously contacted the police about Avilo and they said they were aware that he harassed another girl a few years ago but nothing really came of it. The cops had told Avilo to leave me alone back in the winter time but nothing really came of that either. I called the cops again in March because Avilo wouldn't stop emailing me and kept demanding I talk to him and he said he will never ever stop. I told the police about the recorded audio and handed it over to them. This is very strange to me. There's lots of screenshotted conversations (which would be easily faked as i said in my previous post) but there was no effort to prove this interaction with the police. Not that a police report proves any guilt on his part, but it'd make this part make more sense. Isn't it weird that the police would talk about a prior case casually like that? I have a hard time imagining that they'd go like "oh that guy, some years ago he did just that but we weren't arsed to do anything about it". Unless both of them are from a state of a handful of people, it'd be unlikely that would be something they'd recall, and I find it even more unlikely they'd go into some database, find that out and share it with her. Maybe US police work like that? Avilo was brought into the police station for an interview and was told to bring with him any evidence that he wasn't harassing me Also very weird. He was brought in to prove a negative? | ||
-NegativeZero-
United States2136 Posts
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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On July 21 2020 19:52 -NegativeZero- wrote: the police thing is legit - i remember someone posting a link to the official public record of the court case when it happened, although i don't feel like looking for it Some guy remembers some other guy posting the evidence, somewhere, so it's legit. Can't be bothered to find it though. That summarizes the tone of this discussion that I have a problem with. | ||
WaesumNinja
210 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6114 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
Pretty easy to block his main. Good luck with the 1000s of alts he is creating to harass you now. He is a monster but in his head he thinks he is right. | ||
ProTech
United States427 Posts
On July 21 2020 20:56 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: Ofc this Atira girl pushed his buttons. But he didn't have any control over his actions? Stalking and harassing her for months after she said leave me alone? Pretty easy to block his main. Good luck with the 1000s of alts he is creating to harass you now. He is a monster but in his head he thinks he is right. I think it goes a little deeper than just pushing buttons. I have yet to see any evidence that he's creating alts to harass her, rather she's just letting him contact her under HER alts. | ||
WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On July 21 2020 21:48 ProTech wrote: I have yet to see any evidence that he's creating alts to harass her, rather she's just letting him contact her under HER alts. And seeing the hard-on the community has for this controversy, there's yet to be evidence showing that the alts are not made up by trolls fueling the fires. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8759 Posts
On July 21 2020 18:38 Jockmcplop wrote: Avilo faking evidence? https://twitter.com/avidiscorderino/status/1285308761993871360 Anyway one thing I definitely agree with Atira about is avilo getting a job. The guy needs to get a job that doesn't involve him having 'fans' (incredibly toxic fans). He needs a boss and a fucking routine and all that other stuff that crushes ego. I'm confuse, there's a guy out there who photoshoped discord post of a fake conversation between two persons, including sexual talk, and is now somehow surprise when it's used | ||
sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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mikedupp
233 Posts
On July 21 2020 16:55 ProTech wrote: Bottom line is, if you look at the timeline and the imgurs you can clearly see that at some point in time Atira was obviously either 1) playing along, or 2) using avilo as a means to gain followers/viewers. She clearly was interested at some point. It's mere speculation on my part, simply because I have no way to validate if the accounts shown in the imgur are actually her accounts or not. Regardless, I don't think Avilo has anything to lie about, and I know for a fact that people will often times try to be in cahoots with a streamer in one way or another to use them for exposure. What I don't like, is seeing forums like reddit and others who clearly don't read or look at the evidence presented and just dismiss it because they tuned into his stream for 5 minutes and instantly didn't like the person. There is good evidence here that shows atira was either playing a long OR was actually trying to have a relationship with Avilo. I think any reasonable person would simply block the user on social media if they truly wanted the "harassment" to stop. Yes its very clear Atira was in a relationship and or going along with Avilo at one point. It is also very clear that Atira said no more and stop. The block button does nothing when someone makes hundreds of alt accounts. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
On July 21 2020 18:38 Jockmcplop wrote: Avilo faking evidence? https://twitter.com/avidiscorderino/status/1285308761993871360 Anyway one thing I definitely agree with Atira about is avilo getting a job. The guy needs to get a job that doesn't involve him having 'fans' (incredibly toxic fans). He needs a boss and a fucking routine and all that other stuff that crushes ego. Would not be the first time. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
On July 21 2020 19:54 WaesumNinja wrote: Some guy remembers some other guy posting the evidence, somewhere, so it's legit. Can't be bothered to find it though. That summarizes the tone of this discussion that I have a problem with. Look up avilo's name in Maryland court records. I'm not going to post it here. On July 21 2020 21:48 ProTech wrote: I think it goes a little deeper than just pushing buttons. I have yet to see any evidence that he's creating alts to harass her, rather she's just letting him contact her under HER alts. You're going to take Avilo's word that all those alts are Atira's ? | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42201 Posts
Comments like these: On July 21 2020 11:54 ProTech wrote: While I don't think Avilo is all there psychologically, that 41 page thesis about what happened does look rather compelling and makes you wonder if this was just a stunt from atira to gain followers/subs/donators. I don't quite know how you would confirm the validity of the screenshots but either way, I don't really think Avilo has much to lose at this point, and as far as I know all the criminal charges were dropped in his case. I think it's about time people start looking at the other side of the story, rather than incriminating him because you simply don't like him. are particularly fucked up. Everything is well-documented and corroborated by many people (at tournaments, on streams, in private conversations, etc.), not merely fabricated by Atira. It's also absurd to assume that anyone who concludes that Avilo is a trash person based on all this abuse fallout merely has a biased agenda because they already hate him. That's not necessarily true at all; it's certainly not true for me, for example, who never really followed Avilo drama before this. | ||
AlgeriaT
Sweden2195 Posts
Ew. I don't mind anyone wanting to go over this in a serious and factual manner but this guy looks like a legit creeper who's just getting off on the whole thing and trying to use the opportunity to make himself look cool. When he replays the vid showing Atira's first reaction to that horrific painting commissioned by Avilo and goes "God, getting like a little second hand over here. I feel like she loves me", he looks like he's watching porn: https://youtu.be/xmnWMW8AAeI?t=5872 | ||
lechatnoir
361 Posts
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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On July 21 2020 22:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: We need to be done with the ridiculous victim blaming. Comments like these: are particularly fucked up. Everything is well-documented and corroborated by many people (at tournaments, on streams, in private conversations, etc.), not merely fabricated by Atira. It's also absurd to assume that anyone who concludes that Avilo is a trash person based on all this abuse fallout merely has a biased agenda because they already hate him. That's not necessarily true at all; it's certainly not true for me, for example, who never really followed Avilo drama before this. Feel free to share what is well documented. Private conversations do not prove anything. There is nothing wrong about ProTechs comments. This is not victim blaming because word of mouth does not decide who is the victim. Hearsay about someone who is already not popular is not evidence. If you have any evidence, bring it to court and nail him down. If you don't, then admit that all you have is conjecture and dont make yourself guilty of libel. I can't say for sure which side is right because I have yet to see convincing evidence. But I do hate witchhunts. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On July 21 2020 22:48 WaesumNinja wrote: Feel free to share what is well documented. Private conversations do not prove anything. There is nothing wrong about ProTechs comments. This is not victim blaming because word of mouth does not decide who is the victim. Hearsay about someone who is already not popular is not evidence. If you have any evidence, bring it to court and nail him down. If you don't, then admit that all you have is conjecture and dont make yourself guilty of libel. I can't say for sure which side is right because I have yet to see convincing evidence. But I do hate witchhunts. Fortunately this is not a court of law and private companies/internet companies are free to ostracize whomever they want according to behavior they have OBSERVED, without reaching the judicial bar of 'beyond reasonable doubt'. avilo has not been able to demonstrate that Atira is lying about the substance of what he has said or done to her. If such evidence existed, he is free to present it. If you are never going to take the victim's word for anything that happened to them in a private relationship, I'm not sure how you expect to ever be convinced of anything. What the hell does "private conversations do not prove anything" even mean? What kind of evidence do you want? Why is your default position that someone who has subjected themselves to avilo's visibly toxic and aggressive fanbase is lying? | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42201 Posts
On July 21 2020 22:48 WaesumNinja wrote: Feel free to share what is well documented. Private conversations do not prove anything. There is nothing wrong about ProTechs comments. This is not victim blaming because word of mouth does not decide who is the victim. Hearsay about someone who is already not popular is not evidence. If you have any evidence, bring it to court and nail him down. If you don't, then admit that all you have is conjecture and dont make yourself guilty of libel. I can't say for sure which side is right because I have yet to see convincing evidence. But I do hate witchhunts. This isn't a court of law, and everything's been talked about in depth across multiple threads, including the sexual harassment thread. If you or ProTech came late to the party and want to catch up on the reading, I think that's a great idea. But accusing an abuse survivor of making it up - even if you haven't spent the time to educate yourself yet - is extremely inappropriate. Edit: I just realized ProTech got tempbanned, so he won't be able to respond. Hopefully, he learns his lesson. | ||
HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
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Timebon3s
538 Posts
For all we know, he really is very ill and/or psychotic. This thread might make him even worse. If we are dealing with mental illness here and everything has been talked about already then perhaps its a good idea to end it here? | ||
WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On July 21 2020 23:03 Zealously wrote: Fortunately this is not a court of law and private companies/internet companies are free to ostracize whomever they want according to behavior they have OBSERVED, Sure, but what's going on in here and on twitter is beyond "ostracizing". On July 21 2020 23:03 Zealously wrote: avilo has not been able to demonstrate that Atira is lying about the substance of what he has said or done to her. If such evidence existed, he is free to present it. He has presented his side of the story, which was about 41 pages. I'm not going to take it all at face value since it's mostly "he said she said" material. On July 21 2020 23:03 Zealously wrote: If you are never going to take the victim's word for anything that happened to them in a private relationship, I'm not sure how you expect to ever be convinced of anything. What the hell does "private conversations do not prove anything" even mean? What kind of evidence do you want? Video evidence of wrongdoing is convincing, long enough to provide context. Victims of abuse can have their injuries examined and documented by professionals, which is also convincing. Just as I'm not convinced by the "he said she said" material he presented, I'm not convinced by it presented by anyone else either. Stuff that hold up in court, hold up for a reason, and that would be enough to convince me. On July 21 2020 23:03 Zealously wrote: Why is your default position that someone who has subjected themselves to avilo's visibly toxic and aggressive fanbase is lying? This questions implies bias against him. My default position is not that she is lying. My default position is that until convincing evidence has been provided to prove the guilt I'm not going to talk shit about either side. Avilo took a lot of shit already before all of this, and some people are gleefully taking it too far. On July 21 2020 23:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: This isn't a court of law, and everything's been talked about in depth across multiple threads, including the sexual harassment thread. If you or ProTech came late to the party and want to catch up on the reading, I think that's a great idea. But accusing an abuse survivor of making it up - even if you haven't spent the time to educate yourself yet - is extremely inappropriate. I never claimed it's a court of law, but dogpiling on a person without any credible evidence to back it up is... questionable. I'm not going out there to accuse her of lying, but I am presenting the possibility that Avilo is not guilty of everything he is being accused of. Using some abstract thinking you can see the difference. While Protech did not word it exactly that way, it may be what he meant. I'd love to catch up on reading. Someone said to look through the Maryland court records, but I could not find anything. On July 21 2020 23:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Edit: I just realized ProTech got tempbanned, so he won't be able to respond. Hopefully, he learns his lesson. What was he banned for? I remember there being a thread somewhere on TL detailing this, but when i checked the automated ban list I only saw ban discussions, so it might not be the thread I remember. | ||
Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
Who cares if the girl flirted with him? At some point she asked him to stop and he didn't. TBH if a girl cheated on me 10+ times I wouldn't brag about it and I would even pack her shit to send her off. | ||
WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On July 21 2020 23:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I can't believe people are trying to defend avilo's behavior. No one is doing that. Just because some people don't join in on the dogpiling does not mean they are defending him. Please, read carefully. Nobody said that what he has been accused of is acceptable behaviour, nobody said that it's all a ploy of the girl to get publicity, etc. Go back a few pages and read again. | ||
sharkie
Austria17988 Posts
On July 21 2020 23:32 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I can't believe people are trying to defend avilo's behavior. He has been doing it in public for years but nobody cared enough to do something about it. Now the girl says avilo won't leave her alone despite calling the cops on him and it's her fault. Who cares if the girl flirted with him? At some point she asked him to stop and he didn't. TBH if a girl cheated on me 10+ times I wouldn't brag about it and I would even pack her shit to send her off. I dont think anyone is really defending Avilo here. What he did, no matter what she did, was wrong because as you said he didnt accept the "No" which did happen at some point. Some people including me just have a problem with her side of the story. | ||
HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 21 2020 18:19 ProTech wrote: That kinda the problem IMO though. Twtich ended up banning his account, and gave him absolutely no way to tell the other side of the story aside from platforms where he's hated like TL or Reddit. However, to say with conviction that she should be treated the same way is kind of a hard thing to do, because for all I know Avilo could be photo shopping and cropping images, I don't know how to validate the usernames in those imgurs. In my mind its pretty likely that he isn't lying because he's probably already come to terms with the fact that even if the truth does get out, he'll probably not get unbanned from twitch. I just don't see what he has to lose. I don’t see why he should get to on these platforms at this point. Let’s concede even if hypothetically Atira did behave pretty shoddily, in the timeframe she was friendly with Avilo. Interpersonal relationships especially with any romantic component can go sour pretty quickly. Her only consistent request for rather quite some time now is for him to leave her alone and to say he hasn’t respected that is rather an understatement. Scenario A - Avilo recognised that their relationship is toxic, she’s crazy and manipulative as he claims and steps back from it. Gets back to his life and perhaps explains the situation in a less lurid and more vague way. Stays out of her way. Scenario B - Avilo does what he has done. Which is continue to try to interact with her in various ways even as she’s trying to get a restraining order, disparaging her in various ways, compiles huge dossiers of messages etc etc until he gets bans all over the place. Any interaction from the SC community advising him to leave well alone is met with either hostility or the same warped narrative about Atira and her army of fans who fabricate all sorts of evidence in their quest to bring down the mighty Avilo. If he’d just left it alone and gone with some variant of scenario A the community, tournaments and Twitch would have been fine with him doing his thing. Doesn’t mean many of us would like him but he’d merely be a balance whiner with an inflated sense of his skill. It’s this continued poor behaviour around Atira that has been going on for absolutely ages now that is the problem. Even a cursory glance at his Twitter appearances around it show he’s still not getting it. I’m not particularly active but I saw for example a respected guy in the community like Catz say even if Atira did do you wrong, she’s told you to leave her alone, Avilo’s response was his standard ‘her bots have turned the community against me’ and complete lack of self-awareness. Perhaps Atira does donate 150 dollars to herself via a smurf purporting to be Avilo and break down crying and end a day’s streaming. I’d hazard a guess with a high degree of certainty that she does not. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22775 Posts
On July 21 2020 04:22 TT1 wrote: whos gonna fight for last place now? Ouch, it is the truth that cuts the deepest! Glad he's gone, hopefully everyone will recognize why and why this behavior is not to be tolerated. Everyone is probably not happening, but more is possible. | ||
RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
Atira said she "had heard about Avilo and what he is known for but didn't pass judgement on it because she never saw that behaviour on stream." Now this I have a really hard time believing. I used to watch Avilo's stream because at times he was the only terran player and he was almost always being toxic in some way. Nothing he ever said was funny or interesting. He is not an attractive person, he was not and is not liked by the community at any point during his "Sc2 career". All of this leads me to believe she saw him as an easy target and used him to get her name out in circulation. Lets be real, she is a gold/plat level player. Why would any fan of starcraft want to tune in and watch that? Oh because shes kind of cute?? So she is attracting weak minded, desperate people who latch on to things and will do anything to try and maintain it. Thats who Avilo is and she knew it. TL DR: -Avilo is socially awkward -Atira was unknown, became involved with avilo one way or another -Atira realizes she can use avilo's popularity to gain attention for herself. -Avilo can't handle rejection from real relationship, loses his mind -community involvement causes avilo to become paranoid and increases his outlandish behaviour -Atira exposes him, ruins his "SC2 Career" -Atira gains viewership, avilo gets banned. I really dont think its fair what happened to him, eventhough the way he reacted to everything was his own fault. He probably saw Atira as the best he would ever do in a relationship and had a meltdown when he watched it slip away. Its kind of sad really. Trolls in the community probably played a part in this as well one way or another. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42201 Posts
My comment was a response to you saying "If you have any evidence, bring it to court and nail him down." We're not talking about that; we're talking about massive corroboration of the extremely abusive behavior and dangerous actions that Avilo has been doing, from harassing people online to literally, physically stalking them (to the point where law enforcement needed to get involved). We don't need an actual legal case to decide it's in the community's best interest to take a stand against abusers like him. What was he banned for? I remember there being a thread somewhere on TL detailing this, but when i checked the automated ban list I only saw ban discussions, so it might not be the thread I remember. ProTech's most recent ban is for doing exactly what everyone (including the moderators) warned him to be careful of... victim blaming and not doing his due diligence before defending Avilo. Here's the thread for all bans; this page includes ProTech's: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/32696-automated-ban-list-latest-moltkewarding3?page=2396 Here is the explanation... "Reason: Since we know that Atira did in fact block avilo and that harassment continued, it seems you should think long and hard about how YOU assess evidence and public statements in the future. In case you haven't been involved on TL recently, I want to make it extremely clear that we do not condone shifting blame onto victims in these situations. Please do not do it again." Anyways, this isn't the time or place to talk about ProTech, as there are real injustices pertaining to actual harassment and abuse that we should be focusing on. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 21 2020 23:56 Wombat_NI wrote: Perhaps Atira does donate 150 dollars to herself via a smurf purporting to be Avilo and break down crying and end a day’s streaming. I’d hazard a guess with a high degree of certainty that she does not. Aren't people on both "sides" in this dispute monetizing their content? if that's the case its hard to believe anything from either side with any degree of certainty because both sides are chasing clicks, views, and subscriber donations rather than the truth. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 21 2020 23:09 HomeWorld wrote: After reading this thread, I'm under the impression that we are back in the darkest human age. Too much hate for a person that can't even (isn't allowed anymore to) defend himself. Jesus Christ he has no platforms because he’s behaved abominably over years. And I mean literally years. Well I mean he still has Twitter and YouTube going, and he does continue to try, most of us just don’t believe him. If we’re going to do the ‘two sides of the story’ thing. Atira - Avilo is harassing me over a continued period. Avilo - Atira is a snake who lied about it and smeared my name. What is observable in the public domain is Avilo continues to try and interact with this person that he says is manipulative and horrible. Evading blocks and bans. Showing up at the same events she is at etc. I don’t think one needs the deduction skills of Sherlock Holmes here. | ||
HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22775 Posts
On July 22 2020 00:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Aren't people on both "sides" in this dispute monetizing their content? if that's the case its hard to believe anything from either side with any degree of certainty because both sides are chasing clicks, views, and subscriber donations rather than the truth. No they are not, both "sides" are not equal and it is not close. Everyone needs to stop with the blaming Atira. Avilo had umpteen chances to stop and never did. In fact he bragged about it. The guy needs actual mental help and being on a streaming service, or the message board or anywhere is clearly not helping him out. He needs to be off of them because he is hurting others and getting worse. It is up to him now to first stop! And second to get help. If he can't do the first then it is likely that the police will have to do it for him. On July 22 2020 00:19 HomeWorld wrote: I've been watching,and interacting, for so many years. I'm quite ashamed about what TL community has become. Then maybe you need to find a better place for yourself. I'm proud of how we have, for the most part, grown as a community. Not supporting someone like Avilo is part of that growth. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 22 2020 00:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Aren't people on both "sides" in this dispute monetizing their content? if that's the case its hard to believe anything from either side with any degree of certainty because both sides are chasing clicks, views, and subscriber donations rather than the truth. It wouldn’t necessarily preclude being honest. Maybe there’s a niche, I don’t know. Avilo yes people clearly tuned in to watch a train wreck, I’m not sure what appeal there is to have another streamer (who btw has tried to put distance continually) dealing with it second hand. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 22 2020 00:22 JimmiC wrote: No they are not, both "sides" are not equal and it is not close. so you know for certain there are zero anti-Avilo discord channels taking in donation money? how do you know this? On July 22 2020 00:23 Wombat_NI wrote: It wouldn’t necessarily preclude being honest. Maybe there’s a niche, I don’t know. Avilo yes people clearly tuned in to watch a train wreck, I’m not sure what appeal there is to have another streamer (who btw has tried to put distance continually) dealing with it second hand. true, however, money being a factor clouds things enough that it requires deeper investigation. | ||
sharkie
Austria17988 Posts
Isnt it a simple two people really liked each other - one of them decided to quit the relationship (apparently in a bad way?) and the other not accepting it and then starting really bad behaviour | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 22 2020 00:34 sharkie wrote: Whats with all the money suspicions now? Avilo accepts donations and has paid subscriptions. As far as I know this is his prime source of income. Therefore, if he has a rage fit on screen he can turn that into money. In fact, both sides can. if this guy has a Discord channel he can request donations to make more stuff like this... I'm sure some # of anti-Avilo people would like more content like this and find it hilarious. So its hard to know what is genuine and what is for entertainment purposes. | ||
NewSunshine
United States5651 Posts
This "I just think we need more investigation" is nonsense. Money is not a sufficient motivator for someone to subject themselves to psychological abuse. Especially not the kind of money the average person gets off of YouTube these days, lol. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22775 Posts
On July 22 2020 00:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote: so you know for certain there are zero anti-Avilo discord channels taking in donation money? how do you know this? true, however, money being a factor clouds things enough that it requires deeper investigation. Can you bring up the exact earnings of both sides to make them comparable? Of course you can't, and when you make an argument that makes your own position look worse that should tell you how incomparable the sides are. Not to mention the whole one person is clearly the aggressor and one person is clearly the victim. And no matter what the victim does , the other does not stop. This "both sides" argument is pathetic victim blaming and it needs to stop. And the anti Avilo people do not want any content from him. We want him off line getting help. You are confusing us with his fans. | ||
Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
On July 21 2020 04:17 TelecoM wrote: I may grab a bag of popcorn for this 41 page Avilo explanation, this has got to be good. I wish someone would read it / summarize it in a video in a humorous way instead. =P you are in luck https://youtu.be/xmnWMW8AAeI | ||
RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
On July 22 2020 00:22 JimmiC wrote: No they are not, both "sides" are not equal and it is not close. Everyone needs to stop with the blaming Atira. Avilo had umpteen chances to stop and never did. In fact he bragged about it. The guy needs actual mental help and being on a streaming service, or the message board or anywhere is clearly not helping him out. He needs to be off of them because he is hurting others and getting worse. It is up to him now to first stop! And second to get help. If he can't do the first then it is likely that the police will have to do it for him. Then maybe you need to find a better place for yourself. I'm proud of how we have, for the most part, grown as a community. Not supporting someone like Avilo is part of that growth. You're not wrong when you say the guy needs actual mental help. He basically streamed his life which was SC2, somehow a personal relationship got mixed up with it because of the nature of his lifestyle. I'm willing to bet people in the community used this in a way to attack him which is kind of shitty when you think about it. If the guy needs mental help like youre saying, maybe you should also be advocating that people just leave the guy alone?? The way he reacted to rejection shows that he has no real idea about how relationships work. Normally this wouldnt effect a persons job but in this case it has which isn't completely fair, even if he is an unlikeable prick. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22775 Posts
On July 22 2020 01:04 RandomPlayer416 wrote: You're not wrong when you say the guy needs actual mental help. He basically streamed his life which was SC2, somehow a personal relationship got mixed up with it because of the nature of his lifestyle. I'm willing to bet people in the community used this in a way to attack him which is kind of shitty when you think about it. If the guy needs mental help like youre saying, maybe you should also be advocating that people just leave the guy alone?? The way he reacted to rejection shows that he has no real idea about how relationships work. Normally this wouldnt effect a persons job but in this case it has which isn't completely fair, even if he is an unlikeable prick. Depends on the job, any job that involves public life he would most certainly lose it. Anything in T.V., radio, public face of any business, municipality and so on. While you are right he would probably not lose his job as say a programmer, he didn't go that route. Lucky he still can as a job like he could still get, or labour job or whatever. When you bank on making your living off peoples personal dollars and companies willing to use you to promote their brand it is absolutely fair for them to stop supporting him when his brand becomes something they don't watn to support or associate with theirs. If Avilo ends up posting something like "I take full responsibility for my actions and I am taking some time away to get the help I need". I would most definitely say that people should leave him alone and let him get that help. But when he writes a 41 page manifesto about how it is all her vault and he is the victim, I have a hard time taking pity on someone who continues to do vile acts. | ||
DeepElemBlues
United States5075 Posts
1. atira used avilo to get viewers/subs. 2. Completely ignore the abusive call me Sir I am your master you better tell me you love me every morning hey I'm masturbating while we're talking manipulative and vile stuff. The first is irrelevant and the second torpedoes anything else they have to say. Also just lol that guy saying avilo had him photoshop screenshots. Avilo's discord members were never his friends, they loved ragging on him, egging him on in his delusions, provoking him for the lulz. And I have no doubt he did ask people there to help him in his delusional crusade to defend himself against reality and they happily did so, while at the same time they were laughing at him behind his back. Definitely T A C T I C A L G E N I U S behavior. He's developmentally stunted socially and sexually and what he needs is intensive therapy, starting with inpatient. Yes, he should be committed. At least long enough to do a real, full evaluation. He needs help or his life is going to continue be a spiral of petty crime and waste, possibly ending in something worse. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
On July 22 2020 00:12 RandomPlayer416 wrote: I was thinking about this a bit more. Atira said she "had heard about Avilo and what he is known for but didn't pass judgement on it because she never saw that behaviour on stream." Now this I have a really hard time believing. I used to watch Avilo's stream because at times he was the only terran player and he was almost always being toxic in some way. Nothing he ever said was funny or interesting. He is not an attractive person, he was not and is not liked by the community at any point during his "Sc2 career". All of this leads me to believe she saw him as an easy target and used him to get her name out in circulation. Lets be real, she is a gold/plat level player. Why would any fan of starcraft want to tune in and watch that? Oh because shes kind of cute?? So she is attracting weak minded, desperate people who latch on to things and will do anything to try and maintain it. Thats who Avilo is and she knew it. TL DR: -Avilo is socially awkward -Atira was unknown, became involved with avilo one way or another -Atira realizes she can use avilo's popularity to gain attention for herself. -Avilo can't handle rejection from real relationship, loses his mind -community involvement causes avilo to become paranoid and increases his outlandish behaviour -Atira exposes him, ruins his "SC2 Career" -Atira gains viewership, avilo gets banned. I really dont think its fair what happened to him, eventhough the way he reacted to everything was his own fault. He probably saw Atira as the best he would ever do in a relationship and had a meltdown when he watched it slip away. Its kind of sad really. Trolls in the community probably played a part in this as well one way or another. Avilo's career (twitch) was ruined without atira saying anything. He harassed another streamer on Twitch and got "indefinitely" banned. On what way is this not fair? He even got a 1 week ban in February 2019 before the indefinite suspension in April of 2019. The 1 week ban should have told him that he needs to stop. Twitch gave him multiple chances and went easy on him IMO until they were forced to ban him for good. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 22 2020 00:54 JimmiC wrote: This "both sides" argument is pathetic victim blaming and it needs to stop. And the anti Avilo people do not want any content from him. We want him off line getting help. You are confusing us with his fans. how can you speak for what all Anti-Avilo people want? I'd say some # of the Anti-Avilo people want to watch rage videos like the one I posted. This explains why it has 5,700+ views. I am not victim blaming. i'd say the two individuals both have groups trying to screw them over. I'd say both individuals are victims. That said, it is hard to discern all the facts. This is why TL , DreamHack, and ESL taking so long to ban Avilo is a good thing. These orgs acknowledge they don't have all the facts every minute of the day. So people get lots of chances. | ||
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom8712 Posts
On July 22 2020 01:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: how can you speak for what all Anti-Avilo people want? I'd say some # of the Anti-Avilo people want to watch rage videos like the one I posted. This explains why it has 5,700+ views. I am not victim blaming. i'd say the two individuals both have groups trying to screw them over. I'd say both individuals are victims. That said, it is hard to discern all the facts. The problem is that she is a victim of Avilo, whereas Avilo is a victim of Avilo. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 22 2020 01:27 Jockmcplop wrote: The problem is that she is a victim of Avilo, whereas Avilo is a victim of Avilo. mmmm some seek out people with checkered histories and go after them knowing they can use their bad rep against them. That is what Avilo is a victim of. He is gonna have to cowboy the fuck up sooner or later. IMO, Avilo deserves his ban. ESL, Dreamhack, TL taking their a long time to issue a final ban was the right way to go about things. I'd say Avilo's best move is a change of scenery where no one knows who he is and he can start fresh. Kinda like when high school kids get a shot at a "new image" when they go off to university. Kinda like that. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22775 Posts
On July 22 2020 01:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: how can you speak for what all Anti-Avilo people want? I'd say some # of the Anti-Avilo people want to watch rage videos like the one I posted. This explains why it has 5,700+ views. I am not victim blaming. i'd say the two individuals both have groups trying to screw them over. I'd say both individuals are victims. That said, it is hard to discern all the facts. This is why TL , DreamHack, and ESL taking so long to ban Avilo is a good thing. These orgs acknowledge they don't have all the facts every minute of the day. So people get lots of chances. No it really is not. The facts are that Avilo has done some terrible things and needs to make some big life changes before it gets worse. On July 22 2020 01:22 DeepElemBlues wrote: I'm seeing two commonalities in all these defenses of the mech g0d: 1. atira used avilo to get viewers/subs. 2. Completely ignore the abusive call me Sir I am your master you better tell me you love me every morning hey I'm masturbating while we're talking manipulative and vile stuff. The first is irrelevant and the second torpedoes anything else they have to say. Also just lol that guy saying avilo had him photoshop screenshots. Avilo's discord members were never his friends, they loved ragging on him, egging him on in his delusions, provoking him for the lulz. And I have no doubt he did ask people there to help him in his delusional crusade to defend himself against reality and they happily did so, while at the same time they were laughing at him behind his back. Definitely T A C T I C A L G E N I U S behavior. He's developmentally stunted socially and sexually and what he needs is intensive therapy, starting with inpatient. Yes, he should be committed. At least long enough to do a real, full evaluation. He needs help or his life is going to continue be a spiral of petty crime and waste, possibly ending in something worse. Yikes, hopefully these people get better hobbies. Not cool. On July 22 2020 01:27 Jockmcplop wrote: The problem is that she is a victim of Avilo, whereas Avilo is a victim of Avilo. Exactly, one person in this scenario needs help and punishment if he won't seek it. | ||
Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On July 22 2020 01:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote: mmmm some seek out people with checkered histories and go after them knowing they can use their bad rep against them. That is what Avilo is a victim of. He is gonna have to cowboy the fuck up sooner or later. IMO, Avilo deserves his ban. ESL, Dreamhack, TL taking their a long time to issue a final ban was the right way to go about things. I'd say Avilo's best move is a change of scenery where no one knows who he is and he can start fresh. Kinda like when high school kids get a shot at a "new image" when they go off to university. Kinda like that. Hard to get a fresh start when googling your name brings up a kiwifarms thread... | ||
sharkie
Austria17988 Posts
On July 22 2020 01:36 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: Hard to get a fresh start when googling your name brings up a kiwifarms thread... Pretty sure you can get your real life name removed from sites | ||
h20Fanatic
22 Posts
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followZeRoX
Serbia1419 Posts
On July 22 2020 02:30 h20Fanatic wrote: They are both attention seekers, at any cost. You just haven't seen enough yet. Mark my words. Maybe, but his behaviour is unacceptable anyways. Point isn't in "atira played along", or "seeked attention/viewers", but his dellusionality to drag her in relationship she dont want. She havent done anything illegal. This might not be "fair" but he is madman, played by Atira but instead of accepting it he started to harras her irl. That isnt normal nor acceptible. | ||
h20Fanatic
22 Posts
But the entire thing wreaks like the aziz ansari situation. Dragged into a relationship? I mean, she willingly participated in a bdsm relationship(if that's your thing, whatever, who am i to kink shame), the evidence is there. It was only after he leaked the bdsm crap, she cries sexual abuse publicly? I have one really important question to ask. Why isn't she going for a criminal conviction? All the #metoo victims pursued prosecution and criminal charges. What does atira do? She goes online airing out dirty laundry instead. Why? because it's all about attention. Actions speak louder than words. The judge and prosecutor would laugh her right out of the courtroom. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 22 2020 01:04 RandomPlayer416 wrote: You're not wrong when you say the guy needs actual mental help. He basically streamed his life which was SC2, somehow a personal relationship got mixed up with it because of the nature of his lifestyle. I'm willing to bet people in the community used this in a way to attack him which is kind of shitty when you think about it. If the guy needs mental help like youre saying, maybe you should also be advocating that people just leave the guy alone?? The way he reacted to rejection shows that he has no real idea about how relationships work. Normally this wouldnt effect a persons job but in this case it has which isn't completely fair, even if he is an unlikeable prick. People in this particular community at large haven’t really attacked him. Plenty have attacked his behaviour, plenty think he needs to step away and get some proper help, etc. Not exclusively, but by and large. I don’t see the real regular TL users talking about Avilo at all outside of when he comes up in a context like this. On the other hand his ‘fan base’ who have egged him on and excused his terrible behaviour for years and got entertainment from it, sure they have a part of the blame. His job basically became behaving toxically every day he streamed for a combination of fascinated voyeurs and people who are actually like Avilo. Is it really any surprise he has got considerably worse over time? I’m not even sure if he could hold down a regular job right now, he might need a period of self reflection. Not because he’s some irredeemable person or anything hyperbolic like that, I do wonder if being a performing rage seal for years has had the Avilo stream personality bleed through to his regular life. I wish both him and Atira the best outcome moving on from this particular episode, but I don’t think we should tolerate terrible behaviour in this community. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22775 Posts
I think it is clear that Avilo is troubled. I also think there is no reason to assume the worst of the other party, so lets not. | ||
fishjie
United States1519 Posts
so i read the first few pages of his manifesto and then started skimming because it made brain hurting. later on in the manifesto he claims that they had actual sex. lol. somehow i doubt that. most of the manifesto is about jealous stalkers made atira lie about their relationship and break it off, but she still secretly loves him and thinks about him. assuming the screenshots are real, atira was leading him on/seeking attention and feeding into his delusions by saying she was turned on by him (ew) or falling in love with him (ew). he then rants about how she "cheated" on him with other streamers. dude needs help and needs to realize some woman messaging how turned on she is by you online is not an actual relationship. girls seek validation and attention from boys online. doesn't mean shit. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 22 2020 02:45 h20Fanatic wrote: O i totally support the avilo ban, let me make that clear. The dude is extremely repulsive and did no favors in representing the starcraft scene. It puzzles me how someone with such an annoying voice was able to get people to watch him. But the entire thing wreaks like the aziz ansari situation. Dragged into a relationship? I mean, she willingly participated in a bdsm relationship(if that's your thing, whatever, who am i to kink shame), the evidence is there. It was only after he leaked the bdsm crap, she cries sexual abuse publicly? I have one really important question to ask. Why isn't she going for a criminal conviction? All the #metoo victims pursued prosecution and criminal charges. What does atira do? She goes online airing out dirty laundry instead. Why? because it's all about attention. Actions speak louder than words. Because it costs money? Because she tried going the official route already did she not? Not every crime or potential crime needs prosecuted, it’s up to the people hurt by said actions to make that decision. Having been assaulted myself in a different circumstance, I chose not to press charges. A few punches in the face in a bar, no lasting damage. Wasn’t really worth the hassle, me having to take time out of my schedule potentially, nor indeed did I want my assailant to have a criminal record hanging over him for an incident I was partially at fault for and had shrugged off within a few days. There are innumerable reasons there really, potentially to explain that away. What are the reasons for Avilo not leaving this person alone when that was clearly what was desired? A good bit narrower and probably the more pertinent question here. | ||
AuroraSCII
3 Posts
On July 22 2020 02:45 h20Fanatic wrote: I have one really important question to ask. Why isn't she going for a criminal conviction? All the #metoo victims pursued prosecution and criminal charges. What does atira do? She goes online airing out dirty laundry instead. Why? because it's all about attention. Actions speak louder than words. The judge and prosecutor would laugh her right out of the courtroom. User was temp banned for this post. Atira ~took avilo to court~ informed the police about the harassment, and the state's attourney took him to court. The court records are publicly available, but I don't want to doxx him. Unfortunately the state's attourney didn't consider Avilo enough a threat so if she wanted to press further charges she would have had to reveal her personal info to Avilo - The Accused has the right to know the name of their accuser. She didn't press further charges to protect herself and her family's privacy / safety. I just want to make it very clear that he is still harassing her to this very day, almost 2 years in. Source: Atira told me. | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
On July 22 2020 03:14 AuroraSCII wrote: Atira took avilo to court over the harassment, the court records are publicly available, but I don't want to doxx him. Unfortunately the state's attourney didn't consider Avilo enough a threat so if she wanted to press further charges she would have had to reveal her personal info to Avilo - The Accused has the right to know the name of their accuser. She didn't press further charges to protect herself and her family's privacy / safety. I just want to make it very clear that he is still harassing her to this very day, almost 2 years in. Source: Atira told me. Nice first post, seems very heart wrenching, also amazing source. How long will this ranting and raving go on for? lol User was temp banned for this post. | ||
AuroraSCII
3 Posts
Further I have no reason to believe Atira is lying about Avilo spamming her, since I have seen multiple examples of his harassment in the past. I used to unironically watch him years ago, I liked his style of playing terran. If you read his entire manifesto, there's even a screenshot of me in there, warning Atira about what happened to Maria. | ||
serendipitous
Canada193 Posts
On July 22 2020 03:20 TelecoM wrote: Nice first post, seems very heart wrenching, also amazing source. How long will this ranting and raving go on for? lol There was literally a tl post months ago about Avilo going to court. It's common knowledge in the community. And statistically speaking a tiny amount of abusers actually get convicted even if the victim goes to the police. The law is incompetent at helping the vast majority of victims. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
The relationship between Avilo and Atira is completely irrelevant truly. In no way did Atira make Avilo get his Twitch banned or make Avilo spam ESL chat on SC2 about Atira. Atira didn't do anything to make Avilo lash out against his opponents in ESL matches. Avilo did that before Atira and you can easily search it or find the videos on YouTube. | ||
Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On July 22 2020 03:31 serendipitous wrote: There was literally a tl post months ago about Avilo going to court. It's common knowledge in the community. And statistically speaking a tiny amount of abusers actually get convicted even if the victim goes to the police. The law is incompetent at helping the vast majority of victims. The problem is enforcement. You can't get a restraining order without telling a person where he or she can't go near. I would agree that the police will only show up after you're dead or maimed in this situation and it isn't worth telling your stalker where you live. | ||
Falling
Canada10904 Posts
I don't know about alts, but when he was blocked by Maria, he couldn't take the hint and kept trying to circumvent the blocks because he believed she was duped- the block wasn't really a block. . . if he only he could convince her otherwise. So he wouldn't leave her alone. He was warned back then that that sort of stalker/ harassment behaviour would wind him up with ban. Didn't sink in. Same pattern of behaviour now. He's been warned and warned but he repeats the behaviour. So it's not some rando accusation that brings the great man down. He's been consistent: consistently bad. And it's finally catching up to him. | ||
NewSunshine
United States5651 Posts
On July 22 2020 03:54 mikedupp wrote: It's truly fascinating that people don't understand what's going on here. The relationship between Avilo and Atira is completely irrelevant truly. In no way did Atira make Avilo get his Twitch banned or make Avilo spam ESL chat on SC2 about Atira. Atira didn't do anything to make Avilo lash out against his opponents in ESL matches. Avilo did that before Atira and you can easily search it or find the videos on YouTube. Quite. However that doesn't stop folks from turning the conversation about how the woman being harassed might have deserved it, or the fact that he was harassing a woman who wasn't perfect means she deserves some of the blame too. It's very similar to what happens when any Youtuber who is equal parts popular and toxic finally gets called out. They can be one of the shittiest humans on Earth, and people will come out in droves to defend them by attacking other people. It's just surprising to me that it still happens with someone universally known for being an unstable, toxic, mediocre "pro" player. | ||
stilt
France2632 Posts
That said, requiring jail for him is like wishing a murder, he should be sent for a long therapy in a asylum tho Hm I feel like a armchair psychologue here. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19027 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40169 Posts
Matter of fact, this is probably one of rare cases i actually could not care less about, it's just a shame they had to use harassment allegation/case as an excuse instead of being straightforward and just banning him for being PoS he is a long time ago, though. | ||
WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On July 22 2020 06:53 lolfail9001 wrote: Well, i am personally not going to miss him. Matter of fact, this is probably one of rare cases i actually could not care less about, it's just a shame they had to use harassment allegation/case as an excuse instead of being straightforward and just banning him for being PoS he is a long time ago, though. To be honest they probably had enough dirt on him for misconduct before any sexual harassment allegations, it's surprising the ESL ban didn't come much sooner. For all we know it could be the result of an unrelated process that had been going on for a very long time. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On July 21 2020 06:34 Warcloud wrote: This post is proof that being toxic makes you more popular than being a good starcraft player. being popular is mostly toxic anyway, you're not missing out | ||
jimminy_kriket
Canada5466 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
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SaTiN
United States54 Posts
I tried watching Avilo stream once years and years ago at the suggestion of a friend but after maybe 10 minutes I couldn't get into it and never watched again. Outside of that, all I know about Avilo and Atira are what I've read in these threads and in their allegation + response. Avilo's document didn't help him much in my opinion. It could have been structured better and been more concise. Many of the images and text are repeated throughout the document - maybe the images are understandable since one image might help him with multiple points, but the constant reiteration of his case made it seem delusional in a way - if I keep repeating the same thing over and over, maybe people will believe me. Many of the images don't help, either. Oftentimes he links an image and gives context in his text, but the image itself does not show that it is indeed about what he claims. Anyone can take parts of a discussion and change its context to prove a point, so he should have made it a point to always include the parts of the text conversation that show the topic indeed matches what he says. Sometimes the pictures do this, but in some cases it is him adding the subject in his text after the text she writes that he is pointing out. Something like her saying yes and him saying something related to one of his points after - conversations change rapidly online so I'm not confident her texts are on that same subject. Most of the pictures have a date of "Today" (presumably because of when the screenshot was taken) but that makes it harder for me to confirm the timeline, and honestly I don't feel like I understand the timeline very well from his perspective. It seemed all over the place. I didn't watch the ~2.5 hour Youtube video linked in his document but it seemed like it was just a slideshow of pictures to help his case. Overall, I feel bad for both of them. I'm inclined to believe Atira because many people are being very brave and coming forward. There are of course rare cases of false allegations, and I know it would stink to lose things because of false allegations, but think of the victims who have lost things because of the true experiences they have had. I don't think these cases are "innocent until proven guilty" and it seems like BS that people expect it to be that way. Honestly, I don't even know how most of these people even have screenshots to show. I'd be hard pressed to find texts or messages I sent years ago. In many of these cases it is he-said/she-said because there just isn't any evidence available that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is guilty. It wouldn't be feasible to bring all of these cases to court (financial reasons, time, bandwidth of the court system, who knows what else). I don't envy people in a position that have to make a decision related to these cases, like ESL with banning Avilo. Maybe in this case it is easy because apparently he has been toxic for years, but I'm talking generally speaking. I think the best most of us can do is just at least listen and try to understand what people are going through, from both perspectives. I know some people are pro-Avilo and think Atira is lying and ruining Avilo's life, while there are anti-Avilo people who want to watch his world crumble. If everyone not personally affected (friends/family of the involved?) could just take a step back and try listening, actually hearing, and acknowledging how each party feels, the world would already be a better place. Acknowledging other people's emotions and feelings doesn't cost anything. I empathize with both people. I personally feel that both parties made mistakes and both parties should have completely cut ties much sooner for their own well being. I look at it kind of like my first relationship. My gf at the time and I both made mistakes, it didn't end amicably, and I thank god that I learned so much throughout my various relationships. My wife wouldn't put up with the dumbass and relationship-noob I was all those years ago. Obviously I didn't experience anything as crappy as these two people, but I do know how depression, anxiety, loneliness, desire for attention - all of that - can impact your state of mind and I just feel like it didn't do either of these people any favors. I hope they can grow and become better people and that they have the support they need to try and "move on" from here. Edited to fix some wording... sorry this is so long. I put so much time into reading all these allegations and I guess I word vomited | ||
sharkie
Austria17988 Posts
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supressionofinfo
2 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
Sr18
Netherlands1141 Posts
On July 22 2020 19:43 supressionofinfo wrote: Looks like this entire thread and many other places are suppressing the information for people to make a valid opinion. avilo released a statement that for some reason is not being discussed here, and a few users were banned for. https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/1285283192782675971 Avilo's response is posted on the first page of this thread, what are you talking about? | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On July 22 2020 19:58 Sr18 wrote: Avilo's response is posted on the first page of this thread, what are you talking about? Homeland security conspiracy level! | ||
DarkPlasmaBall
United States42201 Posts
It's a new/fake user, whose tone is clearly biased. | ||
-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On July 22 2020 17:20 deacon.frost wrote: Did US law and processes caught with the e-harassment? Years ago it was pretty hard to get anything done about this stuff. I think it's pretty easy to process this stuff. If anything, american law has been more at the forefront of things like this/other internet crimes such as revenge porn and so on. There are just separate problems on the side of what the accuser/person who is going to take legal action wishes to do, if it's worth it, or how it may affect their immediate social circle... there is a lot there for them to think about I am still rather amazed at how this story continues to play out in our community. I'm almost starting to wonder if it will just continue on with random updates over time. As others have mentioned, it seems like any further legal action is unlikely without some huge spark. Hopefully it stays at this level and such an escalation never occurs... but... well... we've already gone up a few levels from where this all was a while ago... so who knows... @_@;; | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On July 22 2020 20:31 -Kyo- wrote: I think it's pretty easy to process this stuff. If anything, american law has been more at the forefront of things like this/other internet crimes such as revenge porn and so on. There are just separate problems on the side of what the accuser/person who is going to take legal action wishes to do, if it's worth it, or how it may affect their immediate social circle... there is a lot there for them to think about I am still rather amazed at how this story continues to play out in our community. I'm almost starting to wonder if it will just continue on with random updates over time. As others have mentioned, it seems like any further legal action is unlikely without some huge spark. Hopefully it stays at this level and such an escalation never occurs... but... well... we've already gone up a few levels from where this all was a while ago... so who knows... @_@;; Coolio, thanks for the update! | ||
Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
On July 22 2020 04:33 BisuDagger wrote: Regardless of being guilty, platforms and organizers have a right to deny anyone who doesn't adhere to their policies and ethics as a player. It's clear that the drama he brings is negative and they are right to distance themselves. I think they have done a great job in being patient and seeing if he could move past this drama, but clearly he was incapable doing that. It's unfortunate anyone has to be banned and in this case it's a tough decision that good people are forced to make based on a mess of good and bad information. Well said sir. Beyond that even, it would be a potentially questionable ToS violation to platform and promote a permabanned streamer on another twitch channel | ||
[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
He paints himself as the victim of others. I did not read through the entire thing as it is just too long, but every part I read is to show alleged misbehavior of others. With the many chat screenshots, he plays a bad power game "exposing" Atira. She posted a few chat excerpts as evidence, now he overdoes it by several magnitudes. There is video on Youtube where Avilo stalked Atira. There is audio where he shouts at his "love". And yet, in his mind, he seems to view himself as victim because Atira also kept contact to other men. He puts a lot of effort into describing the purportedly bad character of others. He accuses Atira of damaging his reputation. Not noting his own contribution. He continues to name others who in his mind worked against him. While there is a lot of evidence even before Atira's posting, about countless uncomfortable situations created by an unhinged, angry, stalking Avilo. I could see that a couple of those might be a biiig misunderstanding. But there is too much where Avilo damages himself that I cannot even begin to align his view with the evidence available. | ||
Protimewasterguy
1 Post
Imagine you're Atira. Getting harassed by Avilo constantly to the point where you have to call the cops, make him hire a lawyer, etc. He brings up your kids, he stalks you from alt accounts constantly. He generally is acting like a crazy ass weirdo. Why then, in the name of Zeus' BUTTHOLE, would you meet him IRL? This is the timeline Atira presented, I didn't read avilo's 41 page doc. Just, why meet him, after all that? These are the deep questions of the universe that keep me up at night. Thank you for any insight. User was banned for this post. | ||
Rainmansc
Netherlands216 Posts
On July 22 2020 19:43 supressionofinfo wrote: Looks like this entire thread and many other places are suppressing the information for people to make a valid opinion. avilo released a statement that for some reason is not being discussed here, and a few users were banned for. https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/1285283192782675971 User was banned for this post. User banned for this post? What the actual fuck is happening here? Avilo obviously is in the wrong here but this goes too far... | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On July 22 2020 23:01 Rainmansc wrote: User banned for this post? What the actual fuck is happening here? Avilo obviously is in the wrong here but this goes too far... Yes, because the link is in the first post and those 2 posts this user posted are just about linking the tweet. | ||
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On July 22 2020 23:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It's not in the first post anymore. If it ever was. Ah, my bad. But it's on the 1st page as the 18th post from Musicus, so it's already here and it's not like anyone is against posting this and there's some conspiracy against Avilo. https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/561479-avilo-banned-from-esl-and-dreamhack#18 | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On July 22 2020 23:01 Rainmansc wrote: User banned for this post? What the actual fuck is happening here? Avilo obviously is in the wrong here but this goes too far... This was not a legitimate user. | ||
AlgeriaT
Sweden2195 Posts
On July 22 2020 23:01 Rainmansc wrote: User banned for this post? What the actual fuck is happening here? Avilo obviously is in the wrong here but this goes too far... If you want to get technical, he was probably banned firstly for ban evasion. As he's been perma'd for years. And regarding what he said, it's simply untrue that his statement isn't being discussed. It is posted on the first page https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27640280 and the discussion around it isn't being suppressed at all. Those who got banned were simply turning the accusations around to blame the victim without sufficient explanation. Avilo has proven his own guilt himself over and over, even in public. Just look up all the Youtube rants and tweets he's directed at Atira AFTER she had asked him to stop contacting her. You don't need a court conviction to make the call that this is unacceptable behaviour. And as someone said earlier, Atira did take this to the police, and Avilo did answer in court. The only reason the charges were dropped is that Atira would have had to give out her personal information to pursue it further. When a dude blindly ignores your pleas to stop contacting you, and keeps jumping at you in tweets, emails, BNet messages and whatnot, constantly making new alts to do it, and shows violent rage towards you in public youtube rants, is it any wonder she didn't feel like letting him know where she lives? Oh and let's not forget that he even travelled to Canada to literally stalk her in person. Which is repeated behaviour as he once flew all the way to freaking Italy hoping to meet Maria, even after she'd told him to please stay away. | ||
MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On July 22 2020 23:01 Rainmansc wrote: User banned for this post? What the actual fuck is happening here? Avilo obviously is in the wrong here but this goes too far... It was obviously a fake Account created by Avilo or one of his zealots. Good ban | ||
Adnapsc2
45 Posts
On July 22 2020 19:43 supressionofinfo wrote: Looks like this entire thread and many other places are suppressing the information for people to make a valid opinion. avilo released a statement that for some reason is not being discussed here, and a few users were banned for. https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/1285283192782675971 User was banned for this post. User was warned for this post | ||
Falling
Canada10904 Posts
On July 22 2020 22:38 [F_]aths wrote: + Show Spoiler + I find Avilo's response being OMG. In the sense that he has seemingly no self-awareness. He paints himself as the victim of others. I did not read through the entire thing as it is just too long, but every part I read is to show alleged misbehavior of others. With the many chat screenshots, he plays a bad power game "exposing" Atira. She posted a few chat excerpts as evidence, now he overdoes it by several magnitudes. There is video on Youtube where Avilo stalked Atira. There is audio where he shouts at his "love". And yet, in his mind, he seems to view himself as victim because Atira also kept contact to other men. He puts a lot of effort into describing the purportedly bad character of others. He accuses Atira of damaging his reputation. Not noting his own contribution. He continues to name others who in his mind worked against him. While there is a lot of evidence even before Atira's posting, about countless uncomfortable situations created by an unhinged, angry, stalking Avilo. I could see that a couple of those might be a biiig misunderstanding. But there is too much where Avilo damages himself that I cannot even begin to align his view with the evidence available. All this has happened before. Sounds like he writes like he rants- hours and hours for days on the same loop. A reasonable summation of what led up to his banning from Twitch back in May regarding his treatment of Atira: Even if you ignore all the summations that don't provide receipts AND assume every Avilo tweet/ twitch message is a screen shot fake by 'those out to get him', the video and audio of Avilo from his own stream is sufficiently damning. And when it says 'this is a sampling of hours of streaming', it's like, yeah. I believe it. That's exactly how his streams go. | ||
DieuCure
France3713 Posts
He got punished on the web, Justice is/was after him, what are you trying to accomplish now ? | ||
AuroraSCII
3 Posts
On July 23 2020 02:37 DieuCure wrote: Everything went wrong after he got rid of his bunkbed. But seriously, the inquisitors who are going after Avilo by omitting a good part of the story arent much better. He got punished on the web, Justice is/was after him, what are you trying to accomplish now ? He is still harassing Atira, and she prbly just wants it to stop? I'd assume that was the main reason why she posted the metoo post. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
long story short he can try but It seems fruitless and more of an intimidation tactic. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 22 2020 19:43 supressionofinfo wrote: Looks like this entire thread and many other places are suppressing the information for people to make a valid opinion. avilo released a statement that for some reason is not being discussed here, and a few users were banned for. https://twitter.com/avilosc2/status/1285283192782675971 User was banned for this post. TL is not nuking stuff that clearly sides with Avilo. They are leaving it visible. If people want to sink all kinds of time into this issue.. this TL thread is a solid resource. i do not know if the TL thread provides an exhaustive, comprehensive resource though. I'm too lazy to spend the 100+ hours it would take to determine if this thread "covers everything". On GR.Org Avilo used lots of Alts. What ended up happening was people created Alts of their own to make it look like it was an Avilo Alt. This makes it very difficult to determine exactly what is going on with Avilo during his time playing C&C. Avilo attracts people who like to take advantage of those with checkered track records. | ||
itsdaniel
Austria326 Posts
good move ESL! | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
On July 22 2020 06:53 lolfail9001 wrote: it's just a shame they had to use harassment allegation/case as an excuse instead of being straightforward and just banning him for being PoS he is a long time ago, though. I hope it didn't surprise anyone who made the decision that people who aren't upstanding citizens in public are often worse in private. Agreed, he should have been banned long ago. | ||
jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On July 22 2020 23:25 AlgeriaT wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvFJkz9zQ4 So for some clarity and speculation. I see this video posted all the time, but... why? He isn't doing anything in the video, I don't see what purpose it serves. He's even being calmer than when he's behind his keyboard. What "shitty thing you did" is he referring to? Something that happened at the event? Is it really that outlandish to assume that someone devoting themselves to gaming that much would be present at a gaming tournament? He has participated in qualifiers at this specific tournament before, and supposedly his fans donated to him so he could go there. According to liquipedia, he did not participate in the qualifiers for the year this video is supposedly recorded, which is weird. And he would do better for himself if he did not try to confront her about anything there. But I can't tell what this video is supposed to show. | ||
Timebon3s
538 Posts
He wont leave her alone and I guess thats what the video shows. | ||
WombaT
Northern Ireland20680 Posts
On July 23 2020 18:22 WaesumNinja wrote: So for some clarity and speculation. I see this video posted all the time, but... why? He isn't doing anything in the video, I don't see what purpose it serves. He's even being calmer than when he's behind his keyboard. What "shitty thing you did" is he referring to? Something that happened at the event? Is it really that outlandish to assume that someone devoting themselves to gaming that much would be present at a gaming tournament? He has participated in qualifiers at this specific tournament before, and supposedly his fans donated to him so he could go there. According to liquipedia, he did not participate in the qualifiers for the year this video is supposedly recorded, which is weird. And he would do better for himself if he did not try to confront her about anything there. But I can't tell what this video is supposed to show. Is it that outlandish to assume that being at a gaming event where you don’t sign up to play in the tournament, that the person who’s accused you of stalking/harassment is at and having an encounter with said person isn’t exactly ideal? | ||
Xamo
Spain861 Posts
Initially I thought Avilo was just playing a character, but after many years it is clear that he is just the type of person he seems to be. I hope he looks into the mirror and realizes he needs help, but the probability is unfortunately low. I wish no more people are negatively affected by his behavior. I am sure this community won't be. | ||
WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On July 23 2020 21:05 Wombat_NI wrote: Is it that outlandish to assume that being at a gaming event where you don’t sign up to play in the tournament, that the person who’s accused you of stalking/harassment is at and having an encounter with said person isn’t exactly ideal? Did you read my whole post or were you just eyeballing it for a witty response? I did say he did not participate in playing, and that he shouldn't have confronted her. Nobody said anything about their encounter being "exactly" ideal. | ||
Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5207 Posts
On July 22 2020 04:33 BisuDagger wrote: Regardless of being guilty, platforms and organizers have a right to deny anyone who doesn't adhere to their policies and ethics as a player. It's clear that the drama he brings is negative and they are right to distance themselves. I think they have done a great job in being patient and seeing if he could move past this drama, but clearly he was incapable doing that. It's unfortunate anyone has to be banned and in this case it's a tough decision that good people are forced to make based on a mess of good and bad information. And that is what this is all about. Cancel culture is no more than people expressing their freedom to not interact with certain people. The organizations can do whatever they want, and you can choose to respond by not watching or support them further, whatever. Those on the other side simply want the freedom to do what they want without consequences, while denying others the same right, which is hypocritical to the extreme. | ||
ThunderJunk
United States576 Posts
Boy goes after girl. Girl rejects. Boy goes after girl. Girl rejects. ... Boy goes after girl. Girl rejects. Eventually, boy needs to re-evaluate and just find someone else already. | ||
Argonauta
Spain4724 Posts
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On July 23 2020 06:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote: TL is not nuking stuff that clearly sides with Avilo. They are leaving it visible. If people want to sink all kinds of time into this issue.. this TL thread is a solid resource. i do not know if the TL thread provides an exhaustive, comprehensive resource though. I'm too lazy to spend the 100+ hours it would take to determine if this thread "covers everything". On GR.Org Avilo used lots of Alts. What ended up happening was people created Alts of their own to make it look like it was an Avilo Alt. This makes it very difficult to determine exactly what is going on with Avilo during his time playing C&C. Avilo attracts people who like to take advantage of those with checkered track records. sorry if this is a bit random, but what is GR.org? | ||
phodacbiet
United States1734 Posts
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AlgeriaT
Sweden2195 Posts
On July 24 2020 03:07 phodacbiet wrote: After reading Avilo's manifesto, it corroborates Atira's side of the story to me. His consensual "proofs" are nothing more than him being creepy while she's either giving him a one-word response or trying to change the subject. Most of the images are just avilo spamming about his horniness while she responded "yes" to all his question and sending an emoji in others. The text send to receive ratio is heavily skewed towards avilo's side. Take this image for example, imgur.com. This to me isn't proof, this reads like someone who is over it and is just agreeing with Avilo so that he would drop the topic because they are so mentally done. Atira to me reads like someone who got stuck in a situation and doesn't know how to get out so she just went along with it. I agree. He also proves that he's been recording and screenshotting seemingly every single conversation with both Atira and Maria, even back when there were no problems yet. | ||
WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On July 24 2020 03:29 AlgeriaT wrote: I agree. He also proves that he's been recording and screenshotting seemingly every single conversation with both Atira and Maria, even back when there were no problems yet. Or maybe he scrolled up in the logs. I don't know where they chat, but I can go back for years in all instant messaging services I use. The biggest problem with his logs are how easily they are edited, and that they could even be outright fabrications. It's not enough for him to prove she's been in on it all along or from the start, because they also don't provide context. If they're real, there's a possibility he nagged her to write those things all day and she just caved in and did so to get rid of him. | ||
GreenHorizons
United States21778 Posts
On July 24 2020 03:52 WaesumNinja wrote: Or maybe he scrolled up in the logs. I don't know where they chat, but I can go back for years in all instant messaging services I use. Most of the screenshots say "today" or "yesterday" indicating they were taken shortly after they were sent/received. | ||
Timebon3s
538 Posts
I can understand some of the logs are being kept, but not snapchats. | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
On July 24 2020 03:59 Timebon3s wrote: Wasn't some of them snapchats photos photographed by another phone? I can understand some of the logs are being kept, but not snapchats. Yeah he held up his cellphone to the computer and another cell phone screen to record. He held it up to his stream camera on one of his final twitch streams before he was banned. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On July 24 2020 01:20 renaissanceMAN wrote: sorry if this is a bit random, but what is GR.org? GameReplays.org loosely speaking ... its sorta the TL.net of the C&C franchise. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36645 Posts
On July 24 2020 07:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote: GameReplays.org loosely speaking ... its sorta the TL.net of the C&C franchise. C&C? | ||
JimmiC
Canada22775 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
" ...while sitting on my yacht surrounded by beautiful women.. sometimes i think about what it might be like to actually play video games... " | ||
mikedupp
233 Posts
i wonder if his family is oblivious to his behavior | ||
Urth
United States1244 Posts
On July 24 2020 07:31 JimmiC wrote: I'm guessing Command and Conquer. The TS (Tiberian Sun) online is where I met Ret long long ago and we played on the top two competitive clans. Way way back in the day. After that he went onto Broodwar and I went onto restaurant work and too much booze! Off topic, but what were the top two competitive clans back in the day? | ||
JimmiC
Canada22775 Posts
On July 24 2020 09:05 Urth wrote: Off topic, but what were the top two competitive clans back in the day? There was always two, most of the players stayed the same Botess was one, mirage was another. Those were the main two if I think of the others that came and went I'll edit the post. | ||
Timebon3s
538 Posts
On July 24 2020 08:02 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Gina Carano is prolly half the reason i bought Red Alert 3. " ...while sitting on my yacht surrounded by beautiful women.. sometimes i think about what it might be like to actually play video games... " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIoTBi9ydkw Hahaha that is the best trailer I have ever seen :D Based on a true story lol | ||
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 24 2020 07:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote: GameReplays.org loosely speaking ... its sorta the TL.net of the C&C franchise. Also for the much less popular yet much more fun LOTR Battle for Middle Earth franchise. A lot of good times on that game and GR.org. | ||
sypsyp
6 Posts
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Stetkaer
Denmark23 Posts
There are far worth things going on in the world. | ||
Z3nith
485 Posts
On July 27 2020 21:45 Stetkaer wrote: Please bear with and understand Avilo. There are far worth things going on in the world. Is this another avilo account? | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12115 Posts
On July 27 2020 21:45 Stetkaer wrote: Please bear with and understand Avilo. There are far worth things going on in the world. I think people actually waited for far too long. | ||
Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On July 27 2020 21:45 Stetkaer wrote: Please bear with and understand Avilo. There are far worth things going on in the world. i think we all have a pretty good understanding of avilo's pattern of behavior. the community has put up for him for way longer than he deserved. there being other bad things in the world doesn't make his actions less despicable. | ||
11144332
10 Posts
On July 21 2020 03:59 Musicus wrote: Avilo just posted a 41 page google doc eplaining his side and "clearing his name". No way I will read this, but I guess he has the right to tell his story and maybe someone is interesed. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Scs0t06_FQhf63JJDgiifXjc6EBGhlWAMaXzycPj-bc/edit I am just a lurker (from Reddit) and wanted to know if someone saved a 41-page copy? | ||
Arslan
2 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
dbRic1203
Germany2644 Posts
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simachahar
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
11144332
10 Posts
On August 03 2022 18:25 dbRic1203 wrote: What an unpleasant bump I just wanted to know because everyone was asking about it in his twitch chat with Artosis 3 nights ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/broodwar/comments/wftqfi/artosis_and_avilo_have_just_played_a_20836_long/ (in the vod link replay) | ||
Falling
Canada10904 Posts
I actually bothered to dig into this when we were deciding what to do with him on TL- listened to hours of Avilo going off, of Destiny trying to talk Avilo down, etc. I probably skimmed that document but never saved it. Probably best to let the past be the past, rather than indulging in a sort of curiosity that borders on schadenfreude. | ||
Lambertus
South Africa948 Posts
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r00ty
Germany967 Posts
On August 08 2022 14:15 Lambertus wrote: Im pretty sure the 2 Post Accounts are him again. Very unpleasant, this bump Narcissits gonna narcissist. What a little creep. Did he ever get the needed therapy after terrorizing those girls? Doesn't seem like it. | ||
11144332
10 Posts
On August 08 2022 14:15 Lambertus wrote: Im pretty sure the 2 Post Accounts are him again. Very unpleasant, this bump If you have discord or telegram or whatsapp, we can video call. I'm a bald white guy with glasses and (until 2 days ago) had a nice handlebar mustache. But since you will probably say something like "oh, I forgot my discord password" then I extend the offer to anyone on TL -- not just the liar whose belief system lacks the wisdom gained by a bookshelf of epistemology books. | ||
11144332
10 Posts
On August 08 2022 18:48 11144332 wrote: If you have discord or telegram or whatsapp, we can video call. I'm a bald white guy with glasses and (until 2 days ago) had a nice handlebar mustache. But since you will probably say something like "oh, I forgot my discord password" then I extend the offer to anyone on TL -- not just the liar whose belief system lacks the wisdom gained by a bookshelf of epistemology books. It's been 3 hours and 45 minutes -- no takers? I have GAD and am prescribed Klonopin/Clonazepam for it. 1:05 PM Monday, August 8, 2022 Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) Offer expires at 4pm UTC -- if no one challenges me, then I never want to be accused of being Avilo ever again. | ||
Lambertus
South Africa948 Posts
as you put your ask so nicely and as a adult challenge, it is obviously impossible to come out of this somehow without you having the chance to accuse everybody of something and you being the "winner". I am not interested in haven to proof anything to you or to me or the the forum. I just regret with a little pang in my heart, that I even responded to this bump at all... | ||
11144332
10 Posts
On August 09 2022 01:52 Lambertus wrote: Hello Numbers Guy, as you put your ask so nicely and as a adult challenge, it is obviously impossible to come out of this somehow without you having the chance to accuse everybody of something and you being the "winner". I am not interested in haven to proof anything to you or to me or the the forum. I just regret with a little pang in my heart, that I even responded to this bump at all... • politeness (definition) behavior that is respectful and considerate of other people Your "politeness" has been duly noted, good sir. 😉 | ||
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