Our goal for War Chest 6 is to make War Chest Team League a success. To that end, we’re committing the first USD $150,000 of the proceeds (less taxes) to prizing and tournament operations for the event. We’ll have full details about the tournament in another upcoming post, but in short, we’re selecting 9 prominent StarCraft II commentators to draft teams of four players each, who will then duke it out in an action-packed clan wars-style format, with tons of opportunities for everyone to shine.
Organizing a team event without involving any of the established teams still active in StarCraft 2 has, however, proven to be a point of contention in what they see as long-term negligence and lack of support for them by Blizzard. Since the announcement, several team owners have come out and released an open letter together, denouncing their exclusion from the event and proposing changes to the league, which would give established teams more spotlight, amongst many other suggestions to support the teams in the scene.
On June 11th, Blizzard, in collaboration with WardiTV, announced a brand new War Chest Team League, which would be the first StarCraft II team league directly supported by the main publisher since GSTL (ANZ Proleague and GTC have been sponsored by other Blizzard branches).
There is no denying that bringing back a team-based tournament is great news overall, as the scene could really benefit from having more highly funded team events. That being said, on behalf of existing SC2 teams, we would like to raise our concerns with how this is being implemented.
Seeing a team league with $150,000 behind it (operations + prize pooling) that excludes current professional teams is disappointing from the perspective of us team owners. While we do understand that this is supposed to be a fun community event, this format disregards current teams that would really benefit from this sort of event. Blizzard could do more to support the SC2 teams, and unfortunately the War Chest Team League is a big missed opportunity for them to do so.
Teams play an integral role in the development of SC2 players, and we would like Blizzard to provide more support for the teams that help the very players who make up the professional scene.
The role of professional teams in StarCraft II
For more than 20 years of its esports history, StarCraft has mainly been an individual discipline. Given the lack of regular major team events, the contribution of professional teams to the development of the SC2 competitive scene seems less obvious and noticeable to the general public, but is no less important. A regular SC2 viewer might not pay any attention to a particular player’s clan tag, but every viewer is interested in seeing fresh blood compete at the highest levels of the SC2 scene.
Professional teams play a great role in that process: they scout young talent, provide them with financial support, and give them opportunities to travel to and participate in major tournaments. Without this support, up-and-coming players find it much more difficult to develop into players who are able to challenge the professional scene’s elite players. Teams provided younger players like Astrea, Clem, Future, Reynor, SKillous, and Vanya support in order to help them succeed.
While Blizzard has already done a great job of growing the competitive scene with the WCS system and passing the torch onto ESL with the ESL Pro Tour, the majority of players only get a chance to travel to and participate in these major tournaments because of their teams’ financial support. That support provided by teams is often not a profitable business, so support from the developer is necessary to offset these costs and help keep the scene in a healthy place.
War Chest Team League format: its pros and cons
According to the official announcement, the format of this team league event will include 9 casters drafting teams with 4 players each, for a total of 36 players. As you can see, this format excludes existing professional teams. This team league format reduces our motivation to keep our teams running, as representation from players is a major part of running our teams in the first place. Moreover, it may make actual teams less appealing to existing and prospective sponsors.
There are certainly positive sides of such a format for this tournament: a deeper involvement of casters in the team format makes it easier to raise $150k from the sale of War Chests. It also allows to introduce a very likeable format of team competitions to the wider audience. Still, we are wondering if there is another way to get casters involved along with providing more support for existing professional teams.
Proposed changes to War Chest Team League format
We urge Blizzard to review the current format of the War Chest Team League and allow professional teams to participate in it. To do so, we would like to propose the following changes:
Run an open qualification process with any team allowed to participate as long as they meet a certain criteria (ex: teams must have full GM rosters).
Divide the teams into several divisions (based on overall EPT points) and run several seasons throughout the entire year. This will provide stable team competition throughout the year and give teams stronger reason to continue operating and to bolster their rosters. Between seasons, run new qualifiers to give new teams opportunities to participate and prevent existing teams from remaining complacent.
Another way of getting casters involved: after the qualifications are over, casters can choose a team they want to work with, then they can work together to produce content. Otherwise, Blizzard can host another “all-star” event with the caster/player teams.
We are very happy that Blizzard has once again turned their attention to team competitions and are ready to make every effort to produce a great show out of it. Anyway, in order to achieve that, #LetTeamsPlay in StarCraft II. Please, #LetTeamsPlay in your league!
Further Suggestions to acknowledge and support teams
Along with our proposed changes to the War Chest Team League above, we would also like to bring your attention to Blizzard’s lack of support for teams in general. To address this concern, we would like to propose the following changes.
Provide professional teams with monetization options as long as they meet certain criteria. These monetization options being in the form of selling in-game items. For example, allowing teams to upload graphics such as logo designs, player pictures or other assets to function as in-game portraits or sprays that would be sold. Perhaps also team themed consoles. There is a precedent for this, with Blizzard commissioning player portraits for players who have qualified for BlizzCon as well as flag portraits for Nation Wars.
Create an official teams’ standing based on player performances and results so that teams would have more visibility and relevance. Perhaps also reward top performing teams at the end of year with a competition or modest prize money. OSC has run this before in the past - OSC Team Championship 2018 .
Establish a direct line of communication between teams and Blizzard (i.e. a private Discord server with Blizzard and team owners/managers).
Thank you very much.
PSISTORM Gaming Alpha X Raise Your Edge Gaming Cascade 3D Clan Black Night Archangel Team eXoN b100 esports Reason Gaming Starcom Kosmos Esports
Team Liquid notably didnt sign it. I kind of selfishly just want to see the 36 best players and I think the draft format is pretty cool. That's me though.
Personally, I'd prefer a 'real' team league, with real teams, not some lame draft where random players end up with each other. Just doesn't have the same vibe and character to it. If the field isn't as competitive then, so be it. CTC/GTC turned out to be a blast even with this issue.
That said, the main issue the teams want to advertise is the lack of opportunities for them compared to what they do for the scene, independently of this event specifically, and I really can't blame them for it. This just feels like a big missed chance (150k more in the scene is definitely a positive, ofc).
On June 17 2020 04:27 ssg wrote: Team Liquid notably didnt sign it. I kind of selfishly just want to see the 36 best players and I think the draft format is pretty cool. That's me though.
Obviously, having any new War Chest money entering competitive SC2 is a good thing. And I don't expect the average fan to have some deep interest in the health of the SC2 team ecosystem.
Still, when you're handing out $150,000 in prize money and are representing the super-official Blizzard name, you have an obligation and responsibility to try and use the money in the most beneficial way possible. To make an extreme example, a $150,000 showmatch between Maru and Serral would be hype as fuck, but people would rightfully complain about whether or not it was money well spent.
I'm of the opinion that incorporating 'real' teams into a Team League effort would be much more beneficial than what is being proposed now. Perhaps none of these teams (except a handful of Chinese teams) are paying players at the old KeSPA level, but they're still providing stability by giving players some non-zero amount of support. I imagine teams would be fine having a tournament where the player prize cut is 100%, just because it would be nice to have a competition that justifies the existence of the team.
On June 17 2020 04:34 TheOneAboveU wrote: Personally, I'd prefer a 'real' team league, with real teams, not some lame draft where random players end up with each other. Just doesn't have the same vibe and character to it. If the field isn't as competitive then, so be it. CTC/GTC turned out to be a blast even with this issue.
That said, the main issue the teams want to advertise is the lack of opportunities for them compared to what they do for the scene, independently of this event specifically, and I really can't blame them for it.
This is certainly much more similar to BJ Destruction Match as opposed to GTC.
The obvious upside of building fake teams for this event is that you end up with much more even teams and avoid notable omissions like Serral not being there. Which would make a large different in viewership.
There's a certain catch-22 to all this where teams don't get the opportunities they need, which likewise makes providing opportunities for teams harder. Traditional team leagues have frequently had problem with no-shows and scheduling and just overall lower viewership than individual events. So a one-off 'team-like' event like this feels safer in a way.
Well I'll just assume SCBoy is right and this is actually a show event for the 10 year anniversary of SC2. Beyond that, the only thing I'm judging from Blizzard for now is the fact we got an announcement of an announcement instead of an actual announcement.
If it is a just showmatch, I would like to support it. But of course, I would rather love to see a "real" team league like old Kespa and current CTC/GTC.
It would be great to let the actual teams to take a part, SC2 scene needs a team league and there is a chance to make it right!
Make a league for 10-12-14 teams
Get porportionally small amount of invites (2-3-4)
The rest spots are decided via x amount of qualis (1 to 4)
Make round robin format so each team plays each
Matches are BO4 or BO6, this way you can avoid Serral factor
In BO4 there are 3 1v1 and single 2v2, in BO6 there are 5 1v1 and single 2v2
Victory matters first, amoint of points scored follows, so a victory with 4:0 score is much better than 3:1. For a win you get 3 points, for a draw 1 point.
Top 4 of the season goes to final stage, which has all-kill format (Serral factor wokrs again), with season winner getting spot in a grand-finale, second place of the season is seeded to semi-finale, and 3 vs 4 place clashing in quaters.
I dont think SC2 should have teams. To little money from sponsors to be divided between the different teams and the money should go as directly as possible to players, similar to tennis. If you get real good, you get money from sponsors "directly" plus prize money.
I agree with the criticisms of the teams. The 150k prizepool could be leveraged to be idk, say, $450k if you allow it to be driven by well-established teams that can draw in sponsorship money.
Consistent income through established teams' advertising money is so much more valuable than a one and done tourney prizepool for the following reasons:
1) Money is distributed more evenly. 2) Money is used to build the foundations of a team: e.g. 'Oh cool big team league, let's ensure we have more sophisticated PR and reach out to sponsors;. 3) Money can be used to support up and coming players.
Team leagues are pro teams' dream. They create genuine affinity for a particular team by building up storylines (think about how much less sentiment there would be with teams like Prime and StarTale without GSTL).
This affinity leads to a fanbase for the team. Which makes sponsoring this team more valuable. I mean let's be real for a second, who is a fan of Raise Your Edge or 3D Clan? Very few people. Sure, people appreciate them supporting the scene and players they like but who wants Raise Your Edge merch? However, high profile team leagues give these teams the opportunity to create storylines and characters.They give meaning to team names that currently are 'just another team'.
This is a massive missed opportunity if things continue as they do. I just hope Blizzard have the humility to listen to the community and readjust their thinking (or at least consider it).
Definitely would be excited to see a Caster team league as originally outlined. I don't understand Teams' entitlement to running a tournament the way they dictate. This new one would be an awesome change of pace. Really hoping Blizzard doesn't give in to the pressure.
On June 17 2020 07:17 BlackPride wrote: Definitely would be excited to see a Caster team league as originally outlined. I don't understand Teams' entitlement to running a tournament the way they dictate. This new one would be an awesome change of pace. Really hoping Blizzard doesn't give in to the pressure.
It wouldn't be a change of pace at all, Blizzard has been doing invitationals with the top pros for years some even with team matches.
Teams in other esports get tons of support, without teams the pro scene would be nowhere near its current existence. There's plenty of justification for supporting teams. Not supporting them is one thing, organizing a team league without them is insulting.
On June 17 2020 07:17 BlackPride wrote: Definitely would be excited to see a Caster team league as originally outlined. I don't understand Teams' entitlement to running a tournament the way they dictate. This new one would be an awesome change of pace. Really hoping Blizzard doesn't give in to the pressure.
Blizzards proposal is fun, but over the years they show no supports to teams and now they're doing a team league without those actual teams, must feel very bad if you're the owner of teams. Also,at least half of the players in the European scene would just not been see by the public if there aren't any teams.
On June 17 2020 09:01 elluel wrote: who are those teams? basically no name teams trying to start something lol. Good on TL for not signing this garbage.
Yeah shit on Alpha X and the other teams that pay for trips of players which will be playing GSL next season and helping the scene in general. They also provice content in terms of showmatches and some teams organise tournaments themselves in which anyone can play. There are loads of teams in sc2 with great rosters as well. They make some valid points
On June 17 2020 06:44 ivancype wrote: I dont think SC2 should have teams. To little money from sponsors to be divided between the different teams and the money should go as directly as possible to players, similar to tennis. If you get real good, you get money from sponsors "directly" plus prize money.
You know pretty much every single top sc2 player is on a team right?
The guy has been trying to teach and judge AfreecaTV for putting her own money in SC. I think that's pretty sad. And looks like he is missing something very important. Money from Warchest - is our money, right? He doesn't do anything as like as Rotti or ZG.
They don't want to see the better scene. They want only money from it.
Dunno if I'd call a Sc2 community caster "rich", but I would have love to have seen a team tournament too. I do feel having real team that are frequently a bit imbalance can create some amazing moments and players are usualy more willing to prepare special builds and surprising upset given a good format. (BJ destruction league is kind of a good exemple of the downside of those event)
But in any case, it should be a great event and I'm gonna tune in for sure!
On June 17 2020 10:33 Nakajin wrote: Dunno if I'd call a Sc2 community caster "rich", but I would have love to have seen a team tournament too. I do feel having real team that are frequently a bit imbalance can create some amazing moments and players are usualy more willing to prepare special builds and surprising upset given a good format. (BJ destruction league is kind of a good exemple of the downside of those event)
But in any case, it should be a great event and I'm gonna tune in for sure!
Not only casters but the same number of players (including TL players). And GST Championship is the best example what we need.
On June 17 2020 04:40 Waxangel wrote: I'm of the opinion that incorporating 'real' teams into a Team League effort would be much more beneficial than what is being proposed now. Perhaps none of these teams (except a handful of Chinese teams) are paying players at the old KeSPA level, but they're still providing stability by giving players some non-zero amount of support. I imagine teams would be fine having a tournament where the player prize cut is 100%, just because it would be nice to have a competition that justifies the existence of the team.
Seems a bit elitist to say 'real' teams should be involved.
Any team that achieves the qualification standard for an online team league should be allowed to participate. Regardless of whether or not they pay their players a salary.
A community is built from the bottom up, not the top down.
As for your comment on teams allowing players have a 100% prize cut. I genuinely can't imagine any professional organization that would allow this. Look at how often Dota and CSGO players jump between teams, with one of the primary reasons being that 'real' teams are eating into their tournament winnings. Liquid used to have a TI contender team that shed the TL banner to make their own player org. You don't need a manager who takes X% of your winnings to buy plane tickets.
I would be much more convinced that amateur orgs allow their players to have a 100% prize cut. Amateur orgs don't have to pay for managers, advertisers, and company CEOs. Last year even I was part of Alpha X. I didn't sign any contract I just asked to join and happened to have the minimum MMR cutoff. If I was good enough to compete in something like this there is no way they would be taking a cut from me.
You would know better than me here, but I would be surprised if any team in Starcraft is paying at the old KeSPA level. Regardless of if they're a 'real' team or not.
Uh I didn't even catch this and all the drama behind it till yesterday and I fail to see why is this a big problem? It's clearly a one off and doesn't replace anything team wise in the current system, and it's not even something entirely new, Koreans have been doing this for years, all the way back to when Proleague stopped.
Crazy Idea: Vote with your dollar/euro/yuan War Chest
Blizzard creates, say, three War Chests with similar content, but one supports Caster-driven draft team league (current proposal), another supports an ESL style qualifier-based team tourney (that would be agreeable to existing teams), and the third option would be to support the existing 1v1 structure (ESL, GSL, IEM, ROG, etc).
Then users can fund the event-style they want and creates a few cash streams that would give each type of event a reasonable support base. Since the interests of various groups are in different formats, rather than put it all in one place, you can put on three pretty good tourneys with ~50K each and then pull in all of the extra interest from each of those different support groups.
Why isn't Blizzard spending the 150K towards real professional teams? The professional teams help to provide funding for the pro players.
Without professional teams, the pro players have one less source of revenue. It's a no brainer to spend the 150K towards real pro teams. Putting 150K into SC2 is great, but this is a poorly thought out decision by Blizzard's esports division.
I can see where the open letter is coming from - I do think that having a "real" team league will probably be more beneficial for the teams. However, from a spectator point of view, I would definitely prefer the current proposed format - we live in a real world where terms like ROI is important.
A real shame, real Teams Don t take Part in this. I d shoose the propsed changes over this format every day of the week Even if that means, we don t see Showtime, Gabe, Serral, Neeb, ...
On June 17 2020 12:58 xelnaga_empire wrote: Why isn't Blizzard spending the 150K towards real professional teams? The professional teams help to provide funding for the pro players.
Without professional teams, the pro players have one less source of revenue. It's a no brainer to spend the 150K towards real pro teams. Putting 150K into SC2 is great, but this is a poorly thought out decision by Blizzard's esports division.
why would they prop up random teams with warchest money? blizzard has never even sponsored a team. now you want them to decide which team gets how much, which teams are eligible etc?
I think its cool they are doing a one off event for 10th anniversary. the players will represent their teams like they always do, the event just has a twist a bit like gsl vs the world team match. Never read anyone complain about that match. Seems to me like the team owners are just frustrated with the general situation, but I dont see why you would drag this tourney into this instead of complaining at ie the community summit etc.
On June 17 2020 12:58 xelnaga_empire wrote: Why isn't Blizzard spending the 150K towards real professional teams? The professional teams help to provide funding for the pro players.
Without professional teams, the pro players have one less source of revenue. It's a no brainer to spend the 150K towards real pro teams. Putting 150K into SC2 is great, but this is a poorly thought out decision by Blizzard's esports division.
Can't those teams still send their players? The players can still go, with their team names and jerseys (if on camera at all). They can still give shoutouts to sponsors if they win. What's the difference between a team sending their players to this, versus sending their players to any regular solo tourney? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong here...
I know that AS teams, they'd like a proper team league where they can get more of the spot light, but... come on. This isn't 2011. I don't even know more than 1-2 of those teams. Admittedly, I've become a filthy casual, but I USED to be pretty big on SC2, and I have to imagine that a lot of people are in my shoes as well. How many people are going to tune in to watch a team league with teams they don't even know? On the other hand, most people do remember their favorite casters, and I'd DEFINITELY tune in to see a caster coached team pick tournament.
Idk, seems like the people complaining here are a little too close to the action to have much perspective on this. Kudos to Blizzard and Wardi for organizing something interesting and fun.
On June 17 2020 06:44 ivancype wrote: I dont think SC2 should have teams. To little money from sponsors to be divided between the different teams and the money should go as directly as possible to players, similar to tennis. If you get real good, you get money from sponsors "directly" plus prize money.
You know pretty much every single top sc2 player is on a team right?
So? players should get the money teams get. I dont think SC2 is so small that individuals cant negotiate with sponsors themselves, but maybe it is. I dont know how Neeb got his deal with Ting, or Reynor with Red Bull. So instead of all these clans complaining they could get together with players and form a big organization that would help players find sponsors, instead of these responsibility be divided with many teams.
But I actually like team leagues, i enjoyed watch Proleague and TeamStory Cup. Team leagues add entertainment to SC2, We can watch a tournament because we like the game, a player and also a team. I thought about WCS being a team league, similar to Formula 1, with GSL, DH and ESLs as the circuit stops. BlizzCon could be a tournament with the players with most wins in the circuit.
Are you real? SC casters are rich? Wardi doesn't do anything? People who have been in this scene for years, putting hours and hours into it don't want to better their scene? Attacking Rotterdam, a person who just oozes good intentions and passion for the scene, and Wardi, who literally pours thousands of dollars into the scene and deals with bullshit behind-the-scenes stuff all the time?
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to attack people directly on TL but lord almighty.
Are you real? SC casters are rich? Wardi doesn't do anything? People who have been in this scene for years, putting hours and hours into it don't want to better their scene? Attacking Rotterdam, a person who just oozes good intentions and passion for the scene, and Wardi, who literally pours thousands of dollars into the scene and deals with bullshit behind-the-scenes stuff all the time?
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to attack people directly on TL but lord almighty.
Just ???
100% agree. I don't know why people can't debate this without attacking people.
I think it's healthy to debate things like this. It shows that people genuinely care about the scene. So whilst it's not helpful to act entitled about SC2 pro teams, I also think it's not helpful to shut down a debate by labelling it as 'drama' or people not being grateful for what they get.
Mostly it's people that care a lot about the scene putting forward their opinion on what is best for the scene. So I really don't understand what Wardi is moaning about tbh.
On June 17 2020 17:27 loft wrote: If it was called the War Chest All-Star Tournament or something, then I don't think anyone would be complaining...
These guys are only upset because the title "Team League" is misleading and they prob thought they were going to be involved since they are "teams".
Seeing all of this is quite sad, people debating over things that are fact and attacking the hard-working casters. Maybe like said, it's just the matter of title, but seeing how big a response it is from those team owners, blizzard need to do something.
Are you real? SC casters are rich? Wardi doesn't do anything? People who have been in this scene for years, putting hours and hours into it don't want to better their scene? Attacking Rotterdam, a person who just oozes good intentions and passion for the scene, and Wardi, who literally pours thousands of dollars into the scene and deals with bullshit behind-the-scenes stuff all the time?
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to attack people directly on TL but lord almighty.
Just ???
"The rich get richer and the poor get poorer" is an aphorism. If you don't know. I said it because i want to point out that we have the same people in everywhere. It would be nice to give a money to teams and young players. Not you. You have your cut. And i'm not attacking my precious man Rotterdam. Wardi pours money from subs and donations. He doesn't have a job. He is not working as an engineer/doctor/astronaut/teacher etc. The real passion is when a person does something for free. He has a job and supports the scene. Gives money just like that. Making content for free. And don't even asking you about anything. You should get out of the room. Get education. That how world is works. Passion will not save you. Peace.
I think the War Chest Team event is nice, but I also understand "real" teams point of view.
Maybe we can enjoy this War Chest Team league event for now and hope for Blizzard to use future War Chests money in some kind of proleague with real teams?
Are you real? SC casters are rich? Wardi doesn't do anything? People who have been in this scene for years, putting hours and hours into it don't want to better their scene? Attacking Rotterdam, a person who just oozes good intentions and passion for the scene, and Wardi, who literally pours thousands of dollars into the scene and deals with bullshit behind-the-scenes stuff all the time?
I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to attack people directly on TL but lord almighty.
Just ???
"The rich get richer and the poor get poorer" is an aphorism. If you don't know. I said it because i want to point out that we have the same people in everywhere. It would be nice to give a money to teams and young players. Not you. You have your cut. And i'm not attacking my precious man Rotterdam. Wardi pours money from subs and donations. He doesn't have a job. He is not working as an engineer/doctor/astronaut/teacher etc. The real passion is when a person does something for free. He has a job and supports the scene. Gives money just like that. Making content for free. And don't even asking you about anything. You should get out of the room. Get education. That how world is works. Passion will not save you. Peace.
Agreed. Wardi doesn't do enough. He should sell his organs and donate the proceeds to the teams to show his passion.
On June 17 2020 12:58 xelnaga_empire wrote: Why isn't Blizzard spending the 150K towards real professional teams? The professional teams help to provide funding for the pro players.
Without professional teams, the pro players have one less source of revenue. It's a no brainer to spend the 150K towards real pro teams. Putting 150K into SC2 is great, but this is a poorly thought out decision by Blizzard's esports division.
Do we know who the casters would be that choose the teams? I also assume that the coaches will be casting their own teams games. That should make for some amazing casts.
On June 17 2020 21:03 Mverdo wrote: Do we know who the casters would be that choose the teams? I also assume that the coaches will be casting their own teams games. That should make for some amazing casts.
We can let the coaches of the two teams cast together, that'll be epic, but blizzard really need to get all this mess sorted first
On June 17 2020 12:58 xelnaga_empire wrote: Why isn't Blizzard spending the 150K towards real professional teams? The professional teams help to provide funding for the pro players.
Without professional teams, the pro players have one less source of revenue. It's a no brainer to spend the 150K towards real pro teams. Putting 150K into SC2 is great, but this is a poorly thought out decision by Blizzard's esports division.
Well the GTC is directly funded by Blizzard.
Oh, it is? I thought it was autonomous.
It used to be funded by scboy and all the sponsers scboy found, starting this year it is sponsered by netease blizzard, that's why it's now GTC not CTC, don't know how big a portion blizzard take part in that.
On June 17 2020 20:42 Serimek wrote: I think the War Chest Team event is nice, but I also understand "real" teams point of view.
Maybe we can enjoy this War Chest Team league event for now and hope for Blizzard to use future War Chests money in some kind of proleague with real teams?
I can get behind this. This event is a great idea. Viewers will enjoy it for sure but the teams really do need more support as well. They are essential to the SC 2 pro scene.
Blizzard has a small attempt at getting back in tournament organizing and immediately all hell breaks lose. I'll see this as confirmation that leaving tournament organizing to ESL, Afreeca, and NetEase is a brilliant idea
I think let the first iteration of this event happen first and see how it goes. This event may be to just put out feelers - at this point we don't know if it's a one off or if it's a longer term repeat event.
Maybe it was just a case of making logistics easier for this run through. Getting your team included requires you register, which teams qualify, how many players on a roster etc.
There's going to be 36 players (9 commentators x 4 players each) and i'm not sure I will recognize all the names as it is.
I'm very much against the idea of the warchest teamleague, but I'm also very uncomfortable with voicing my opinion, since there is a small group of very vocal trolls which use it as an opportunity to attack individuals in a very disgusting way.
I'll try to keep is short and sober. I'm very concerned about three things: 1. That it is a team league which ignores the existing teams in Starcraft 2 (see op). 2. That casters will lead the teams, not players. 3. How the casters leading the teams will be chosen.
Normally, those three points wouldn't bother me too much. But since the warchest is exclusively funding this event, I consider it a successor of the past Blizzcons and IEM Katowices, so I am a bit more critical with it.
On June 18 2020 00:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Normally, those three points wouldn't bother me too much. But since the warchest is exclusively funding this event, I consider it a successor of the past Blizzcons and IEM Katowices, so I am a bit more critical with it.
I think just because it's funded by Warchest money you shouldn't compare it to Blizzcon or Katowice. Those are the world championships (well Blizzcon used to be). This is more like GSL vs The World - fun extra content largely based on popularity. And probably a one-of for the 10 year anniversary.
On June 18 2020 00:57 mikedupp wrote: Anyone know the player pool the casters will be picking from? I heard Rotti say on his stream he doesn't know if Korean players will be included.
Wardi said they were looking at the top 40-ish players in the world, that's the only thing I heard.
Why does everyone keep saying its a one off event / possibility? As far as i know Warchest is coming back every year. This means having a continuous team league could be provided constantly by warchest money.
An other thing is Blizzard gonna use the warchest money for the 10th anniversary event? In this case this wouldnt be an "extra" for the anniversary, just warchest money spent differently which would be a disappointment.
On June 17 2020 12:58 xelnaga_empire wrote: Why isn't Blizzard spending the 150K towards real professional teams? The professional teams help to provide funding for the pro players.
Without professional teams, the pro players have one less source of revenue. It's a no brainer to spend the 150K towards real pro teams. Putting 150K into SC2 is great, but this is a poorly thought out decision by Blizzard's esports division.
Well the GTC is directly funded by Blizzard.
Oh, it is? I thought it was autonomous.
It's basically the reason Twitch coverage was stopped on week 7 abruptly.
Teams are useful for players, but there haven't been any team leagues that attracted a lot of viewers (maybe except proleague, but even proleague stopped being fun at the end when JinAir was way better than everyone else). GSTL or Acer Teamstory Cup weren't a huge success, even at the time SC2 was stronger.
Except for a few teams like team liquid. It's hard nowadays to identify with a team in SC2. There is too much roster rotation and it's often more like a personal sponsorship than a "real" team.
This kind of event will be fun and the idea of a draft is cool. How many people complaining about this event not being a team league actually care about a team league like GTC? I would rather watch a fun one-shot event where we see the best players drafted in teams than a regular team league that lasts for months without much interest.
On June 17 2020 15:31 Fighter wrote: Can't those teams still send their players? The players can still go, with their team names and jerseys (if on camera at all). They can still give shoutouts to sponsors if they win. What's the difference between a team sending their players to this, versus sending their players to any regular solo tourney? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong here...
I know that AS teams, they'd like a proper team league where they can get more of the spot light, but... come on. This isn't 2011. I don't even know more than 1-2 of those teams. Admittedly, I've become a filthy casual, but I USED to be pretty big on SC2, and I have to imagine that a lot of people are in my shoes as well. How many people are going to tune in to watch a team league with teams they don't even know? On the other hand, most people do remember their favorite casters, and I'd DEFINITELY tune in to see a caster coached team pick tournament.
Idk, seems like the people complaining here are a little too close to the action to have much perspective on this. Kudos to Blizzard and Wardi for organizing something interesting and fun.
I used to follow SC2 religiously, even at the beginning of LotV, and I have no idea who any of these teams are LOL so yeah you're definitely not the only one.
Hard to be interested in team leagues w/ real teams these with how much churn there has been in the scene with teams coming and going. Are there any actual rival teams these days? EG Masters Cup was fun back in the day because we got to see the plucky foreign teams try to knock of some Koreans and we got the EG vs TL rivalry matches.
On June 18 2020 03:11 Shathe wrote: Why does everyone keep saying its a one off event / possibility?
Well Wardi is one of the main organizers and he said it's a one-off.
If this is an one-off event just for the ten year anniversary I'll support it with both my hands up, if they're going to make it a long term repetitive event, then no. Good to know it's a one-off event.
I understand the teams' perspective. but tbh, i've long lost track of what teams there are and who is on what team. outside of TL and JinAir, the team names have just become random clutter before a player's name to me. judging by the comments in here I'm not the only one.
I suppose if the casters agree with the teams on this, they could agree on each caster picking the roster of one team.
I think it's pretty clear that we're all glad for whatever $150k size event comes along. But it can also be a perfectly valid (if roundabout) impetus to discuss the state of the pro-team ecosystem and what kind of appetite there is for more high-stakes team competition. In general, I think any discussion about what the best use of War Chest funds is is important and shouldn't be trivialized or brushed off as "toxicity" or "drama." In fact, I think all the points from the teams have been made respectfully and constructively, and I think it's in quite bad faith to frame their criticisms otherwise.
When the regular events start moving offline it's going to be difficult to sustain a team league with teams and players from around the world. Either you stay online and it's not as prestigious (and cross-server), or you go offline and spend what kind of money for regular fllying around?.. That may be it about the Chinese team league, it works well with Korea-based teams/rosters but I don't see foreign teams joining in.
On June 18 2020 16:34 Gina wrote: When the regular events start moving offline it's going to be difficult to sustain a team league with teams and players from around the world. Either you stay online and it's not as prestigious (and cross-server), or you go offline and spend what kind of money for regular fllying around?.. That may be it about the Chinese team league, it works well with Korea-based teams/rosters but I don't see foreign teams joining in.
So I don't think it likely to be a regular thing.
ign used to run an online teamleague that most people seemed content with
On June 18 2020 00:21 JustPassingBy wrote: Normally, those three points wouldn't bother me too much. But since the warchest is exclusively funding this event, I consider it a successor of the past Blizzcons and IEM Katowices, so I am a bit more critical with it.
I think just because it's funded by Warchest money you shouldn't compare it to Blizzcon or Katowice. Those are the world championships (well Blizzcon used to be). This is more like GSL vs The World - fun extra content largely based on popularity. And probably a one-of for the 10 year anniversary.
It's hard not to compare it to Blizzcon or Katowice, if I am paying the same money for it. (Disclaimer: I've bought the previous warchests primarily to fund tournaments. I don't really care about the skins since I don't ladder anymore and you cannot use them in coop)
Anyways, I do agree with the sentiment that a strict team league does not make a lot of sense since there are very few high profile team left. But I do hope that it is possible to involve the current teams in some nontrivial capacity. With all due respect to Wardi, whom this community owes so much more than he gets credit for, I generally find the idea of running a team league, but expanding the role of casters instead of actually engaging the existing teams, quite irritating.
On June 18 2020 16:34 Gina wrote: When the regular events start moving offline it's going to be difficult to sustain a team league with teams and players from around the world. Either you stay online and it's not as prestigious (and cross-server), or you go offline and spend what kind of money for regular fllying around?.. That may be it about the Chinese team league, it works well with Korea-based teams/rosters but I don't see foreign teams joining in.
So I don't think it likely to be a regular thing.
ign used to run an online teamleague that most people seemed content with
Not sure we can compare anything with the golden era of SC2. Gina's correct to say it's not as prestigious imo. The last team league I remember being popular for both KR and non-KR teams and viewers was the Acer TeamStory League? And that got too difficult to organize and was slowly declining in hype/viewership afair.
On June 19 2020 22:45 kubaPS wrote: It's time for caster teams: + Show Spoiler +
A teamleague is definitely the best model for sustaining meaningful teams and team identity over time. I still have very fond memories of Proleague in BW, and it seems like it's a model that sponsors really like as well (which is why KESPA was so hard-core into it). It was also good for players who weren't at the top of the scene but could reliably play and compete in a less pressured and individual environment.
Even in KESPA-days, though, there was significant tension between the teams' interests and those of the top players, who were more interested in individual leagues and titles and often resented the pressure to prioritize Proleague, and that would loom larger in a smaller and more top-heavy scene. It's also unclear to me whether the current crop of teams is actually capable of sustaining that kind of model as they are now. Proleague depended on the KESPA system with its very winnowed-down and regulated list of acknowledged teams with deep rosters and B-teams. It seems like the team ecosystem now is much more ad hoc, with very different sizes and levels of organization and player depth, not to mention scattered throughout the world, all of which would make it much harder to run something like Proleague.
I do think that having something like Proleague again would be great and contribute to the long-term sustainability of the scene, and arguably that's a goal that Blizzard should be working towards, as they're probably the only ppl in the scene with the resources and pull to actually build up the necessary infrastructure and make it happen.
It seems unlikely to me, though, that anything could be pulled together right away. The $150,000 showmatch league seems like kind of a red herring for that, but if it gets future Warchest funds earmarked in that direction maybe it'll be for the best. Certainly there's no reason to ascribe malice or lack of passion to the casters and players and organizers involved.
EPT
PSISTORM Gaming, 
