TL.net interviewed IEM Katowice 2020 champion Rogue shortly after his 4-1 grand finals victory against Zest.
Wax: How does it feel to win IEM Katowice twice?
Rogue: It feels good to win it twice, but I'm more happy just to win the championship at all.
It seems like it will be quite hard for any other player to win it three times, so I want to aim at becoming the first three-time champion as well.
The finals were very one-sided. Did it feel that way to you, or was there something more tense going on beneath the surface?
I was able to play it out a bit easily because I knew a lot about Zest's style. I thought that if I played it safe, I might have a hard time like Serral. So I really thought I would have to go for some all-ins.
How did you break down Zest's style? Was it because of the many PvZ games he played this tournament, or because you're familiar with him through ladder play?
I haven't run into him much on the ladder, but he played a lot of vs Zerg matches this tournament and only used a limited range of builds, so it was a bit easy to break down his style.
You said you had originally planned to take it easy this year in your on-stage interview. Could you elaborate on that?
The game wasn't that fun for me so I was thinking I'd take it a bit easy, but I got a bit lucky and won the tournament, and I think that puts some fun back in the game.
How did you get lucky?
I made a lot of plays that aim at luck, and most of them ended up hitting. I cut out safe play completely, playing a lot of all-ins or baejae strategies [Baejae: doing risky builds assuming an opponent will NOT go for certain counter-options, thus gaining an advantage if one guesses right.], and they just worked out so well.
Do you play more macro-oriented when you're confident in your skills, and go for more risky strategies when you're not confident?
No, I just thought if I played safe, it would make things too comfortable for my opponents. They're all good players, and if I felt it would be too tough to play against them if I started off by giving them an advantage. So I just picked all-ins and baejae strategies.
I think the other players also thought that I had a safe style, so they only prepared for me playing safe.
In the foreign community, you became famous as the only-honest-Zerg after your interview last year admitting that Zerg was OP. How is Zerg now?
Honestly, I admit what needs to be admitted. But now, honestly, even though I won the championship, I think Protoss is really good right now.
So you beat Zest because he revealed all his strategies, not because Protoss is weak.
I think if Zest went for some different things, if he went for more mind-games, I would have lost.
In your quarterfinal interview, you wanted to see Maru vs Serral in the finals. Maru then said that wasn't how you really felt. Who's right?
Me, I just felt if I had that mind set, it would put me at ease even if I lost, so I said it because I wanted to go into the game with a calm mind. I do want to see Maru-Serral, but when I saw Zest advancing to the finals, I really wanted to advance as well.
What did you think when Jin Air teammate sOs typed "you will be a champ" to Maru as he GG'd out of their game, considering you were also in the bracket?
I didn't understand what that word meant, so I didn't think anything of it.
Any last comments to the foreign community?
I'm honestly really sorry to the foreign fans because I couldn't show them that many fun games.
The thing is, the way balance is now, it's tough if you play safe. I think the game needs to be patched in a way that players want to play macro games.
The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
What did you think when Jin Air teammate sOs typed "you will be a champ" to Maru as he GG'd out of their game, considering you were also in the bracket?
I didn't understand what that word meant, so I didn't think anything of it.
Good to know we can keep ruthlessly make fun of Rogue without feeling bad about him finding out about it
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Those games are pretty notable because Serral generally is so so solid in those aspects of the game.
The game wasn't that fun for me so I was thinking I'd take it a bit easy, but I got a bit lucky and won the tournament, and I think that puts some fun back in the game.
Imagine. "Yes, I was lacking some form and motivation but I ended up winning the only non-invitational global tournament."
sOs took quite a long time to figure out how yo spell champ and rogue doesn't know what does champ mean, guess that's how much starcraft they practice.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
You say that as if scouting effectively is so easy to do and doesn't really require skill or knowledge. Serral can play in the dark. But playing in the dark, plus playing with an economic deficit is a very painful double wammy. It was totally on Serral to let his hatch get blocked 3 times, though. Zero excuse for that.
On March 02 2020 07:56 Howard_Kao wrote: sOs took quite a long time to figure out how yo spell champ and rogue doesn't know what does champ mean, guess that's how much starcraft they practice.
Good point, I wonder if he was trying to spell champion but couldn't figure it out, and remembered there is a shorter version. I'm sure most of them learn "champion" before "champ" right? Idk, total speculation, but kinda fun to do
Rogue is a smart player. I disliked him after watching him win GSL last year from just abusing SH/nydus, but with the nerfs now, it doesn't feel completely broken. The one game where he used SH/nydus was extremely close. The main reason he won was watching the holes from Zest's glaives adept timing attack; he found two very good counter builds.
It's also amazing that no one predicted he would win this. It felt like I didn't see any games from Rogue in the main stream during group stage.
[B]On March 02 2020 05:25 TL.net ESPORTS wrote: The thing is, the way balance is now, it's tough if you play safe. I think the game needs to be patched in a way that players want to play macro games.
But isn't this what RTS is all about? Various strategies and openings that converge that converge to the mid and late game where we can have a few different strategies at that point of the game as well? Isn't this why TvX is generally regarded as the most fun to watch and arguably play matchup? Because of the high skill ceiling and the amount of micro? Watching Maru vs Rogue and the Banelings coming in to destroy the Planetary, my mouth dropped when I watched Maru load up 5 SCVs, unload them on the other side, and instantly start repairing to keep his Planetary alive.
Also isn't this why we want mapmakers to create different maps where variety of strategies are viable? Otherwise every map would be your standard macro map.
[B]On March 02 2020 05:25 TL.net ESPORTS wrote: The thing is, the way balance is now, it's tough if you play safe. I think the game needs to be patched in a way that players want to play macro games.
But isn't this what RTS is all about? Various strategies and openings that converge that converge to the mid and late game where we can have a few different strategies at that point of the game as well? Isn't this why TvX is generally regarded as the most fun to watch and arguably play matchup? Because of the high skill ceiling and the amount of micro? Watching Maru vs Rogue and the Banelings coming in to destroy the Planetary, my mouth dropped when I watched Maru load up 5 SCVs, unload them on the other side, and instantly start repairing to keep his Planetary alive.
Also isn't this why we want mapmakers to create different maps where variety of strategies are viable? Otherwise every map would be your standard macro map.
It's a balancing act. Players going no rush 20 and heading straight to the lategame every game is obviously undesirable, just as all-ins every game is undesirable. And Rogue feels that the things are tilted too far towards aggression currently.
[B]On March 02 2020 05:25 TL.net ESPORTS wrote: The thing is, the way balance is now, it's tough if you play safe. I think the game needs to be patched in a way that players want to play macro games.
But isn't this what RTS is all about? Various strategies and openings that converge that converge to the mid and late game where we can have a few different strategies at that point of the game as well? Isn't this why TvX is generally regarded as the most fun to watch and arguably play matchup? Because of the high skill ceiling and the amount of micro? Watching Maru vs Rogue and the Banelings coming in to destroy the Planetary, my mouth dropped when I watched Maru load up 5 SCVs, unload them on the other side, and instantly start repairing to keep his Planetary alive.
Also isn't this why we want mapmakers to create different maps where variety of strategies are viable? Otherwise every map would be your standard macro map.
Yes there should be various strategies but some types (like cheese and mid game all-ins) become so much less interesting when repeated too often. That's why the game needs to be based on a solid amount of macro games, probably like more than 50% of them. Because this is where we can (or at least should) see the widest variety in use of units plus the widest variety in the skillset needed from a player to succed (macro, micro, multitasking, map awareness, army positioning, changing strategies base on game reads, etc).
And a macro game doesn't have to be 30 min air battles ofc.
I don't necessarily think a tournament winner's opinion on balance needs to be treated as gospel (we should all be familiar with the own-race bias present in most interviews)—but I did think it was generally insightful to learn about the mindset of a StarCraft player who's had success with a huge variety of styles and strategies, who has won championships with everything between all-ins and toxic macro stalemates.
On March 02 2020 17:30 Waxangel wrote: I don't necessarily think a tournament winner's opinion on balance needs to be treated as gospel (we should all be familiar with the own-race bias present in most interviews)—but I did think it was generally insightful to learn about the mindset of a StarCraft player who's had success with a huge variety of styles and strategies, who has won championships with everything between all-ins and toxic macro stalemates (and some straight-up games in between).
OTOH they have the biggest understanding of the game so even if they are biased we need to have moar of this.
The question I find most interesting is how big part of these cheese metas are balance issues and how big parts are the fundemental way the game is designed. Rogue says protoss is good right now but the most protoss strategies we see are aggresive builds or straight up cheeses, so are protoss strong because they are the race with the most array of BS early game shenanigans?
In general I feel a rts game like starcraft 2 should revolve a lot around safe macro play were it is okay to get behind if your opponent gets some harass in or if your opponent goes macro cheese, you can still come back. But somehow it feels like if a player gets behind that player in generally smoked, I feel this also from the way the pros play, very few actually play truely safe because if they do they fall behind and lose. This means they need to cut corners not to lose in a macro game but if they are cutting corners cheese strategies are strong....
At the same time the defenders advantage is very weak and if you attack your opponent you are open to counterattacks. This means if you are going to move out and attack it feels like it is oftentimes better to make a strong timing attack since if you get counterattacked doesn't matter if your army is so strong you can stright up kill your opponent with your standing army. But if you attack fails to kill him and your base/economy gets gutted you are out.
Generally I feel zerg gets the positives from this, they are the race that expands their mapcontrol automatically and has the easiest time to defend harass. So somehow the race with the best defense is also the race that gets to play passively while building an advantage, strong counterattacks to top it off makes them hard to beat. Therefore cheese vs zerg, making zerg play safe to not die to cheese but if they play too safe they fall behind and lose….. And so the it spins around and around
On March 02 2020 18:02 Shuffleblade wrote: The question I find most interesting is how big part of these cheese metas are balance issues and how big parts are the fundemental way the game is designed. Rogue says protoss is good right now but the most protoss strategies we see are aggresive builds or straight up cheeses, so are protoss strong because they are the race with the most array of BS early game shenanigans?
In general I feel a rts game like starcraft 2 should revolve a lot around safe macro play were it is okay to get behind if your opponent gets some harass in or if your opponent goes macro cheese, you can still come back. But somehow it feels like if a player gets behind that player in generally smoked, I feel this also from the way the pros play, very few actually play truely safe because if they do they fall behind and lose. This means they need to cut corners not to lose in a macro game but if they are cutting corners cheese strategies are strong....
At the same time the defenders advantage is very weak and if you attack your opponent you are open to counterattacks. This means if you are going to move out and attack it feels like it is oftentimes better to make a strong timing attack since if you get counterattacked doesn't matter if your army is so strong you can stright up kill your opponent with your standing army. But if you attack fails to kill him and your base/economy gets gutted you are out.
Generally I feel zerg gets the positives from this, they are the race that expands their mapcontrol automatically and has the easiest time to defend harass. So somehow the race with the best defense is also the race that gets to play passively while building an advantage, strong counterattacks to top it off makes them hard to beat. Therefore cheese vs zerg, making zerg play safe to not die to cheese but if they play too safe they fall behind and lose….. And so the it spins around and around
Doesn't help that zerglings are really strong and all it takes is 1 depo down or 1 unit not on the hold position.
In your quarterfinal interview, you wanted to see Maru vs Serral in the finals. Maru then said that wasn't how you really felt. Who's right?
Me, I just felt if I had that mind set, it would put me at ease even if I lost, so I said it because I wanted to go into the game with a calm mind. I do want to see Maru-Serral, but when I saw Zest advancing to the finals, I really wanted to advance as well.
Rogue really is such an intelligent player. He started to gain all his big success once he refined his play to a point he became one of the best if not the absolute best macro late game player. He openly admits the strength of his race also played a part in this. Then he started to lose to Protoss here and there in some key matches by getting cheesed out. The game got to a point where Protoss just could not hope to win a macro game against a top Zerg like Rogue. It took him a couple of months and he again adjusted his play to be much more solid against wonky play and added more tricks and aggression to his games as well.
And he knows that this kind of play is not very interesting for the fans, but these are professionals who make a living out of this, so they need to do everything they can do win. A nice call out to Blizz to finally try to have a much deeper look at the state of the game and try to work some magic so the players are not forced to do only a specific set of things to win...
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
Byun couldn't split, being good with one unit doesn't make your micro top 1.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Yes absolutely the game was really nice in 2018. They made it worse and worse afterwards.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
Well he didn;t ask for micro nerf, just for the nerfs. These are the things are remember, there will be probably more but considering other races gets nerfs after a while(BL/infestor, SH, blink, BL/Infestor again to name few notable "let's wait and see" approaches) it's sometimes hard to blame a certain player as others have more time to adjust and copy it.
Edit> To the ByuN - I still remember his last Code S where he was constantly praised for his micro while he was dying to his mmm being showered by storms and he was standing in them. That was one of the examples of bad hype casting IMO.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
Byun was always the fastest player with ultra quick hands and pacey play-style, but that does not mean he had the best micro. He was certainly not best at splitting and positioning his units, which also falls under the micro category.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about....
I watched IEM, Marus splits didnt look as good as Times at Asus, yet he didnt even make the cut here....
Is Byun the last Terran champion? Besides the other micro god Maru at Wesg over Serral? Can you even COUNT the foreign Terrans at this point? I love Special, but hes never wowed me with micro like Byun, or herO, or Parting, ...
So who had the best micro, for Terran, if NOT Byun? Especially when the next 2 up, Maru and TY were plainly envious? ( Even if overall better players)
On March 02 2020 23:18 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about....
I watched IEM, Marus splits didnt look as good as Times at Asus, yet he didnt even make the cut here....
Is Byun the last Terran champion? Besides the other micro god Maru at Wesg over Serral? Can you even COUNT the foreign Terrans at this point? I love Special, but hes never wowed me with micro like Byun, or herO, or Parting, ...
So who had the best micro, for Terran, if NOT Byun? Especially when the next 2 up, Maru and TY were plainly envious? ( Even if overall better players)
Maru has better micro and it's not close. Byun being slightly better at microing one specific unit doesn't change that
So you are saying, you don't know how to google and need help? O_O
On March 02 2020 23:18 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about....
I watched IEM, Marus splits didnt look as good as Times at Asus, yet he didnt even make the cut here....
Is Byun the last Terran champion? Besides the other micro god Maru at Wesg over Serral? Can you even COUNT the foreign Terrans at this point? I love Special, but hes never wowed me with micro like Byun, or herO, or Parting, ...
So who had the best micro, for Terran, if NOT Byun? Especially when the next 2 up, Maru and TY were plainly envious? ( Even if overall better players)
Maru has the best micro in the World, he has had the best micro for years and it is not even close.
I have seen Maru do things with complex armies in a second while I still don't even have the time to register everything he was doing. Siege tank siege, bio stim, ghost emp (on protoss army) and liberator siege in a mere second. Maru is the micro god but it gets especially obvious when you see him controlling complex armies.
I also question if you have seen many of Specials games because at times he also micros really really well. At this Point I'm starting to wonder if you just have trouble understanding what the players are doing. ByuN while being great lacked Marus precise micro when it was more than one unit and his macro behind it was always a bit lacking compared to Maru and Inno. I love ByuN but he was never a Maru.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
I am dead serious... WHO the fuck is Morrow?
Swedish terran, he was particularly good in 2010-2011 and he was playing mass reaper a lot.
Although I'd say in the early day of SC2 players focused more on micro than macro, so it was easier to notice it, as things get more and more figured out player focus less on micro. Overall outside of all in, early game stuff or low economy scenario you want to have to micro the least amount of possible.
It's especially true in lotv with the super fast economy, outside of the early game, you don't really have time to do to much fancy micro and it become more about army positionning, spell casting and focus firing. Blink stalkers are a good exemple, I don't think anyone has forgot to do 2 minute fight where you save every stalker with blink, but pretty much no one does right now because in a standard game if you take the time to do it mean you are already dead since the other guy macro will be good enough to overpower you. It's the same with helions micro against speed ling or the MKP marine split back in the day where he would micro every marine individually but never macro for shit.
Maru and TY can control complex armies very well while Inno and ByuN can micro one group of specific units very well. The thing that makes difference is that both Inno and Maru have godlike macro on their back while TY and ByuN do not.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
I am dead serious... WHO the fuck is Morrow?
Swedish terran, he was particularly good in 2010-2011 and he was playing mass reaper a lot.
Although I'd say in the early day of SC2 players focused more on micro than macro, so it was easier to notice it, as things get more and more figured out player focus less on micro. Overall outside of all in, early game stuff or low economy scenario you want to have to micro the least amount of possible.
It's especially true in lotv with the super fast economy, outside of the early game, you don't really have time to do to much fancy micro and it become more about army positionning, spell casting and focus firing. Blink stalkers are a good exemple, I don't think anyone has forgot to do 2 minute fight where you save every stalker with blink, but pretty much no one does right now because in a standard game if you take the time to do it mean you are already dead since the other guy macro will be good enough to overpower you. It's the same with helions micro against speed ling or the MKP marine split back in the day where he would micro every marine individually but never macro for shit.
Also everyone has basically automated all sorts of tricks that had to be figured out and ingrained.
Zerg players have all gotten so good at defending the initial reaper that losing a ling or even god forbid a drone is something you basically never see anymore
I do miss the real elongated blink battles, or blink v blink in PvP but it’s just less common today by far than it used to be. As you say though you really can’t do anything else while you’re doing it, Terrans can fit in at least partial macro cycles between micro actions, you can’t really do that in a pure blink stalker battle
Rogue is such a gentleman on his personality and after every interview I gain more respect to him. As a pro he is not my favorite player and zerg, but this is how should be done in real life - be a monster while you do your job and be a gentleman out of the games with the people. GG
On March 02 2020 23:18 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about....
I watched IEM, Marus splits didnt look as good as Times at Asus, yet he didnt even make the cut here....
Is Byun the last Terran champion? Besides the other micro god Maru at Wesg over Serral? Can you even COUNT the foreign Terrans at this point? I love Special, but hes never wowed me with micro like Byun, or herO, or Parting, ...
So who had the best micro, for Terran, if NOT Byun? Especially when the next 2 up, Maru and TY were plainly envious? ( Even if overall better players)
Maru has the best micro in the World, he has had the best micro for years and it is not even close.
I have seen Maru do things with complex armies in a second while I still don't even have the time to register everything he was doing. Siege tank siege, bio stim, ghost emp (on protoss army) and liberator siege in a mere second. Maru is the micro god but it gets especially obvious when you see him controlling complex armies.
I also question if you have seen many of Specials games because at times he also micros really really well. At this Point I'm starting to wonder if you just have trouble understanding what the players are doing. ByuN while being great lacked Marus precise micro when it was more than one unit and his macro behind it was always a bit lacking compared to Maru and Inno. I love ByuN but he was never a Maru.
First off, naming Morrow is like naming Idra as a top Zerg, 2010 play doesn't really cut it in 2020. Jesus, are you talking about the 5 rax reapers, like the reapers that had the grenades bonus on buildings? Come on man...
Special? For micro? Hes not even Uthermal, like ....what? He has great builds and macro, always has since he was sixjax Major and number 1 GM NA. But a micro god, no....
And come on, we all watch the SAME games. Until Maru beat Serral in those late game raven fest, TY was considered to have the best Terran late game and army control, Ghumiho the best builds, Maru was the most decisive, great micro combined with great tempo play, when Banshees were still viable.... Inno was the Macro beast..... Maru was like 9s in all categories, Byun was definitely a 10 on micro...
Byun was the first player I saw that actually made banelings look like they wernt even a viable unit prelair....
Also the speed up LOTV had a terrible effect on the Terran early game in general, which is where advanced micro shines the most and created tempo advantages...
Like it baffles me people dont get why Maru proxied so much....
Or why he was such a master with Banshees, and now they arnt as viable.... widow mines no longer cloaking, the changed cyclone....
There arnt as many opportunities to micro like that anymore..
Also, if you watch enough of Marus battles, one of his keys to success is he was GREAT at focus firing individual units... like he just smashes battles....
First off, naming Morrow is like naming Idra as a top Zerg, 2010 play doesn't really cut it in 2020. Jesus, are you talking about the 5 rax reapers, like the reapers that had the grenades bonus on buildings? Come on man...
First off I wasn't the one mentioning Morrow, why are arguing with me, hell can't you read what you are answering to before being rude.
Frst you ask who Morrow even is and then after googling you go on to try and educate ME on the subject when just a day earlier knew nothing about him. Seriously if you are are ignorant about that era of starcraft 2 that is fine, do you seriously believe you know more than everyone else after reading a liquiepdia page.
Special? For micro? Hes not even Uthermal, like ....what? He has great builds and macro, always has since he was sixjax Major and number 1 GM NA. But a micro god, no.... .
So for someone to wow you with micro they need to be a micro god, yeah I'm not surprised there aren't many that wow you with micro if that is definition of impressing you. Being the best in the world.
And come on, we all watch the SAME games. Until Maru beat Serral in those late game raven fest, TY was considered to have the best Terran late game and army control, Ghumiho the best builds, Maru was the most decisive, great micro combined with great tempo play, when Banshees were still viable.... Inno was the Macro beast..... Maru was like 9s in all categories, Byun was definitely a 10 on micro...
Byun was the first player I saw that actually made banelings look like they wernt even a viable unit prelair....
You are simplifying things way too much, each terran doesn't have their own "gimmick" and that is okay. I disagree with you that Maru had worse late game army control than TY and that is fine, we can have different opinions without anyone of use being wrong. Chill man
I think it's very interesting how Rogue approaches the game compared to Serral. During IEM Kato 2018 / WESG 2017 (that took place on the same raven patch iirc), Serral tried to beat Maru's raven play in straight macro games but couldn't find the answer and got bopped 3-0. On the other hand, Rogue had troubles against Maru's play but went for the kill with some high base count hail mary allins and beat him 3-2 at IEM.
History repeats itself, Serral tried to counter Zest passively, trying to defend properly and stuff, "play it safe" as Rogue said, whereas Rogue didn't try any of that and killed Zest earlier. Granted Rogue had a bit of time to prepare for Zest, but I don't doubt he could have done that on the fly during the series if he was facing Zest in the ro4 instead of Serral.
Serral could be even scarier if he managed to play like that, and he would fare better if the meta happened not to favor zerg.
As for Rogue, I can't even count now the number of times he has come back from being on the verge of losing a bo5 against top terrans :x. Truly impressive yet saddening for us terrans fans
First off, naming Morrow is like naming Idra as a top Zerg, 2010 play doesn't really cut it in 2020. Jesus, are you talking about the 5 rax reapers, like the reapers that had the grenades bonus on buildings? Come on man...
First off I wasn't the one mentioning Morrow, why are arguing with me, hell can't you read what you are answering to before being rude.
Frst you ask who Morrow even is and then after googling you go on to try and educate ME on the subject when just a day earlier knew nothing about him. Seriously if you are are ignorant about that era of starcraft 2 that is fine, do you seriously believe you know more than everyone else after reading a liquiepdia page.
Special? For micro? Hes not even Uthermal, like ....what? He has great builds and macro, always has since he was sixjax Major and number 1 GM NA. But a micro god, no.... .
So for someone to wow you with micro they need to be a micro god, yeah I'm not surprised there aren't many that wow you with micro if that is definition of impressing you. Being the best in the world.
And come on, we all watch the SAME games. Until Maru beat Serral in those late game raven fest, TY was considered to have the best Terran late game and army control, Ghumiho the best builds, Maru was the most decisive, great micro combined with great tempo play, when Banshees were still viable.... Inno was the Macro beast..... Maru was like 9s in all categories, Byun was definitely a 10 on micro...
Byun was the first player I saw that actually made banelings look like they wernt even a viable unit prelair....
You are simplifying things way too much, each terran doesn't have their own "gimmick" and that is okay. I disagree with you that Maru had worse late game army control than TY and that is fine, we can have different opinions without anyone of use being wrong. Chill man
To be honest, I didnt google shit.... I've been a Starcraft fan since it came out in the 90s. I mean, Morrow? That's like me naming STC as a Top Terran, and no I didnt need to google that....
Everyone should remember sixjax Major, ( didnt need to google that either..) one of my favorites to watch, will never forget him owning Spanishiwa on stream and calling him bad. But known for Terran micro? Hes known for being TYs son.....
First off, naming Morrow is like naming Idra as a top Zerg, 2010 play doesn't really cut it in 2020. Jesus, are you talking about the 5 rax reapers, like the reapers that had the grenades bonus on buildings? Come on man...
First off I wasn't the one mentioning Morrow, why are arguing with me, hell can't you read what you are answering to before being rude.
Frst you ask who Morrow even is and then after googling you go on to try and educate ME on the subject when just a day earlier knew nothing about him. Seriously if you are are ignorant about that era of starcraft 2 that is fine, do you seriously believe you know more than everyone else after reading a liquiepdia page.
Special? For micro? Hes not even Uthermal, like ....what? He has great builds and macro, always has since he was sixjax Major and number 1 GM NA. But a micro god, no.... .
So for someone to wow you with micro they need to be a micro god, yeah I'm not surprised there aren't many that wow you with micro if that is definition of impressing you. Being the best in the world.
And come on, we all watch the SAME games. Until Maru beat Serral in those late game raven fest, TY was considered to have the best Terran late game and army control, Ghumiho the best builds, Maru was the most decisive, great micro combined with great tempo play, when Banshees were still viable.... Inno was the Macro beast..... Maru was like 9s in all categories, Byun was definitely a 10 on micro...
Byun was the first player I saw that actually made banelings look like they wernt even a viable unit prelair....
You are simplifying things way too much, each terran doesn't have their own "gimmick" and that is okay. I disagree with you that Maru had worse late game army control than TY and that is fine, we can have different opinions without anyone of use being wrong. Chill man
To be honest, I didnt google shit.... I've been a Starcraft fan since it came out in the 90s. I mean, Morrow? That's like me naming STC as a Top Terran, and no I didnt need to google that....
Everyone should remember sixjax Major, ( didnt need to google that either..) one of my favorites to watch, will never forget him owning Spanishiwa on stream and calling him bad. But known for Terran micro? Hes known for being TYs son.....
Nobody named Morrow in the context of great players or micro gods, the statement was ‘nobody else has single-handedly got a unit nerfed’, to which he was a response.
I just get tired of the goddamn lames online......
All the hate for Byun cause he was good at reapers, which was a BLAST to watch.....
I watched Maru go 7 rax reapers vs sOO in a gsl game and get owned.. its 4 years later and pitiful ass noobs STILL complaining about 3 rax reaper, like he didn't win GSL and Blizzcon back to back...
Maru won ONE tournament with late game mass Raven, and they nerfed it to death, now Terran has no late game splash, hence NO LATE GAME....
You know we lost Guhmiho, the scene needs Byun back, needs Dream to regain that killer form.....
With Byun, It's like people forgot Tankevacs were even a thing.....
I watched Rogue beat back hellbat all ins with nothing but Queens, but the Bum ass Zergs cant handle reapers...
Didnt uthermal go like, 14 rax reapers vs someone, like a pro?
First off, naming Morrow is like naming Idra as a top Zerg, 2010 play doesn't really cut it in 2020. Jesus, are you talking about the 5 rax reapers, like the reapers that had the grenades bonus on buildings? Come on man...
First off I wasn't the one mentioning Morrow, why are arguing with me, hell can't you read what you are answering to before being rude.
Frst you ask who Morrow even is and then after googling you go on to try and educate ME on the subject when just a day earlier knew nothing about him. Seriously if you are are ignorant about that era of starcraft 2 that is fine, do you seriously believe you know more than everyone else after reading a liquiepdia page.
Special? For micro? Hes not even Uthermal, like ....what? He has great builds and macro, always has since he was sixjax Major and number 1 GM NA. But a micro god, no.... .
So for someone to wow you with micro they need to be a micro god, yeah I'm not surprised there aren't many that wow you with micro if that is definition of impressing you. Being the best in the world.
And come on, we all watch the SAME games. Until Maru beat Serral in those late game raven fest, TY was considered to have the best Terran late game and army control, Ghumiho the best builds, Maru was the most decisive, great micro combined with great tempo play, when Banshees were still viable.... Inno was the Macro beast..... Maru was like 9s in all categories, Byun was definitely a 10 on micro...
Byun was the first player I saw that actually made banelings look like they wernt even a viable unit prelair....
You are simplifying things way too much, each terran doesn't have their own "gimmick" and that is okay. I disagree with you that Maru had worse late game army control than TY and that is fine, we can have different opinions without anyone of use being wrong. Chill man
To be honest, I didnt google shit.... I've been a Starcraft fan since it came out in the 90s. I mean, Morrow? That's like me naming STC as a Top Terran, and no I didnt need to google that....
Everyone should remember sixjax Major, ( didnt need to google that either..) one of my favorites to watch, will never forget him owning Spanishiwa on stream and calling him bad. But known for Terran micro? Hes known for being TYs son.....
I would argue that Maru had better control of late game units then TY any day of the week, he always had better ghost control and raven control.
i just think TY had better unit positioning and was way better at getting to the late game he usually went for less harrasment and powered up faster.
watching Maru at 200 200 supply with a legit army comp is kinda terrifying.
So apperantly people nowadays doesn't take Byun's devastating wrist injury into consideration when they talk about micro lul. Apperantly Byun may never be able to recover to the point he should in 2016, but at that time it would be simply foolish to consider anyone else has a better micro.
On March 11 2020 12:32 StaleTosis wrote: Serral is too predictable..
Serral wasn't that predictable in 2018. He can do all kind of strats. While in 2019, in his last game with Raynor, he couldn't finish out Raynor despite the huge mid game advatange he gained via mutas.Where dark clearly showed that muta is viable in zvz against roach into hydra lurker playstyle.
On March 11 2020 19:37 Sixshot wrote: So apperantly people nowadays doesn't take Byun's devastating wrist injury into consideration when they talk about micro lul. Apperantly Byun may never be able to recover to the point he should in 2016, but at that time it would be simply foolish to consider anyone else has a better micro.
This...
It's like they forget Byun won GSL during the twilight of the Kespa era, when these guys were stomping the whole world still....
On March 11 2020 19:37 Sixshot wrote: So apperantly people nowadays doesn't take Byun's devastating wrist injury into consideration when they talk about micro lul. Apperantly Byun may never be able to recover to the point he should in 2016, but at that time it would be simply foolish to consider anyone else has a better micro.
Pretty much every terran has broken wrist, and Byun also had 3 and a half years of full time progaming he was between pretty good and just ok before taking his break. And he had pretty much a whole year in 2017 when he was still very active and had good results but he never climbed back to the level of his end of the year. For some reason when talking about Byun everyone always only talk about 2016 like if he was just a new guy comming out of nowhere destroying everyone then disapearing into the sunset and we were left only wondering what could have been.
It's not like anyone talk about ByuN 2010-2013 micro, not that there's anything I can say about it.
On March 11 2020 19:37 Sixshot wrote: So apperantly people nowadays doesn't take Byun's devastating wrist injury into consideration when they talk about micro lul. Apperantly Byun may never be able to recover to the point he should in 2016, but at that time it would be simply foolish to consider anyone else has a better micro.
Pretty much every terran has broken wrist, and Byun also had 3 and a half years of full time progaming he was between pretty good and just ok before taking his break. And he had pretty much a whole year in 2017 when he was still very active and had good results but he never climbed back to the level of his end of the year. For some reason when talking about Byun everyone always only talk about 2016 like if he was just a new guy comming out of nowhere destroying everyone then disapearing into the sunset and we were left only wondering what could have been.
It's not like anyone talk about ByuN 2010-2013 micro, not that there's anything I can say about it.
2010- 2013? You are grasping now.... are you talking about when the game first came out?
Like roaches cant hit a bunker on a ramp in 2010? That era?
Lmao, all the Top Terran pros said Byun had the best micro, and here you guys are caping for Morrow from 2010?
Why are you guys arguing so hard against some shit that was common knowledge?
The Kespa guys were the best then, at basically everything... how you even bring up a foreigner for being the best at ANYTHING then is kinda crazy....
Also, Artosis had said this many times.... MANY GSL champions, I believe even including Rogue, got k locked out Round of 32 the NEXT season....
Byun made this game fun to watch.... you guys should welcome him back with open arms......
On March 11 2020 19:37 Sixshot wrote: So apperantly people nowadays doesn't take Byun's devastating wrist injury into consideration when they talk about micro lul. Apperantly Byun may never be able to recover to the point he should in 2016, but at that time it would be simply foolish to consider anyone else has a better micro.
Pretty much every terran has broken wrist, and Byun also had 3 and a half years of full time progaming he was between pretty good and just ok before taking his break. And he had pretty much a whole year in 2017 when he was still very active and had good results but he never climbed back to the level of his end of the year. For some reason when talking about Byun everyone always only talk about 2016 like if he was just a new guy comming out of nowhere destroying everyone then disapearing into the sunset and we were left only wondering what could have been.
It's not like anyone talk about ByuN 2010-2013 micro, not that there's anything I can say about it.
2010- 2013? You are grasping now.... are you talking about when the game first came out?
Like roaches cant hit a bunker on a ramp in 2010? That era?
Lmao, all the Top Terran pros said Byun had the best micro, and here you guys are caping for Morrow from 2010?
Why are you guys arguing so hard against some shit that was common knowledge?
The Kespa guys were the best then, at basically everything... how you even bring up a foreigner for being the best at ANYTHING then is kinda crazy....
Also, Artosis had said this many times.... MANY GSL champions, I believe even including Rogue, got k locked out Round of 32 the NEXT season....
Byun made this game fun to watch.... you guys should welcome him back with open arms......
Oh come on, I thought you weren't a troll for a second
On March 11 2020 19:37 Sixshot wrote: So apperantly people nowadays doesn't take Byun's devastating wrist injury into consideration when they talk about micro lul. Apperantly Byun may never be able to recover to the point he should in 2016, but at that time it would be simply foolish to consider anyone else has a better micro.
Pretty much every terran has broken wrist, and Byun also had 3 and a half years of full time progaming he was between pretty good and just ok before taking his break. And he had pretty much a whole year in 2017 when he was still very active and had good results but he never climbed back to the level of his end of the year. For some reason when talking about Byun everyone always only talk about 2016 like if he was just a new guy comming out of nowhere destroying everyone then disapearing into the sunset and we were left only wondering what could have been.
It's not like anyone talk about ByuN 2010-2013 micro, not that there's anything I can say about it.
2010- 2013? You are grasping now.... are you talking about when the game first came out?
Like roaches cant hit a bunker on a ramp in 2010? That era?
Lmao, all the Top Terran pros said Byun had the best micro, and here you guys are caping for Morrow from 2010?
Why are you guys arguing so hard against some shit that was common knowledge?
The Kespa guys were the best then, at basically everything... how you even bring up a foreigner for being the best at ANYTHING then is kinda crazy....
Also, Artosis had said this many times.... MANY GSL champions, I believe even including Rogue, got k locked out Round of 32 the NEXT season....
Byun made this game fun to watch.... you guys should welcome him back with open arms......
Are you being serious here lol? Most would love to see a Terran of Byun’s chops make a comeback.
‘People think this but actually...’ only works as a posting style when people actually think and say the things you’re responding to
On March 11 2020 19:37 Sixshot wrote: So apperantly people nowadays doesn't take Byun's devastating wrist injury into consideration when they talk about micro lul. Apperantly Byun may never be able to recover to the point he should in 2016, but at that time it would be simply foolish to consider anyone else has a better micro.
Pretty much every terran has broken wrist, and Byun also had 3 and a half years of full time progaming he was between pretty good and just ok before taking his break. And he had pretty much a whole year in 2017 when he was still very active and had good results but he never climbed back to the level of his end of the year. For some reason when talking about Byun everyone always only talk about 2016 like if he was just a new guy comming out of nowhere destroying everyone then disapearing into the sunset and we were left only wondering what could have been.
It's not like anyone talk about ByuN 2010-2013 micro, not that there's anything I can say about it.
2010- 2013? You are grasping now.... are you talking about when the game first came out?
Like roaches cant hit a bunker on a ramp in 2010? That era?
Lmao, all the Top Terran pros said Byun had the best micro, and here you guys are caping for Morrow from 2010?
Why are you guys arguing so hard against some shit that was common knowledge?
The Kespa guys were the best then, at basically everything... how you even bring up a foreigner for being the best at ANYTHING then is kinda crazy....
Also, Artosis had said this many times.... MANY GSL champions, I believe even including Rogue, got k locked out Round of 32 the NEXT season....
Byun made this game fun to watch.... you guys should welcome him back with open arms......
Are you being serious here lol? Most would love to see a Terran of Byun’s chops make a comeback.
‘People think this but actually...’ only works as a posting style when people actually think and say the things you’re responding to
Lmao, I cant tell by how often people chalk his skill up to simply reapers.
I dont understand the "People think this", dont put words in my mouth... like What?
I was responding to the," No one talked about Byun in 2010- 13", comment. That's just a dumb ass comment. You might as well start talking about Fruitdealer, or Huks blink micro. Like that shit would hack it today, like What?
If you are really a fan, you WANT to see both Byun and Dream regain form, Terran is weak as hell as it is with Gumiho gone, Ryung gone, Keen gone.....
There no tempo play anymore... I watched Rogue beat back a wicked hellbat all in with fuckin QUEENS, NO SCOUTING AND NO UNITS!!!!
But the Bonjwa Zergs, who win every tourney, couldn't handle the one tempo play left after 2raxes.....
EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/ept2020_21/eptbanner734.jpg)
Rogue shortly after his 4-1 grand finals victory against Zest.
