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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On December 18 2019 19:07 sneakyfox wrote: they are actually buffing zerg casters here, which seems crazy considering their current level of power. Well, they should have a high level of power. Zerg doesn't have anti-caster spells like emp and feedback. | ||
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Snakestyle11
191 Posts
On December 18 2019 19:14 WaesumNinja wrote: Well, they should have a high level of power. Zerg doesn't have anti-caster spells like emp and feedback. Also, Zerg late game casters need to be this strong because of how bad ultralisks and broodlords are and how they have big obvious weakness compared to highest tech units of other races. Battlecruisers, Thors, Carriers, tempests are all much better all around than broodlords and ultralisks. I feel like to nerf vipers you need to have a new "capital ship" type late game zerg unit that can attack both ground and air. | ||
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3456 Posts
Thors are still lacking in some areas but they're too powerful atm vs massive air units. I think the shroud ability doesn't have to be so absolutely niche. A flavour thing you can do is to make it so when Marines and only Marines die while under the Shroud they become Infested Terrans and I'm not talking the Infested Terran of recent memory, but basically a shitty melee Zombie unit, have it be timeless so ppl would try accumulate the biggest zombie legion as possible  Finally I would've liked to see Adepts with a 30 shields upgrade, then the upg would've absolutely been worth it. I wanted to try it to force Ghosts from Terrans and then going into Disruptors, completely neglecting going Storm. Sounds powerful tho. | ||
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
On December 18 2019 19:23 Snakestyle11 wrote: Also, Zerg late game casters need to be this strong because of how bad ultralisks and broodlords are and how they have big obvious weakness compared to highest tech units of other races. Battlecruisers, Thors, Carriers, tempests are all much better all around than broodlords and ultralisks. I feel like to nerf vipers you need to have a new "capital ship" type late game zerg unit that can attack both ground and air. That's what most Zergs think, that you don't have any options if your casters get nerfed. Problem with Zerg is you have so many options which are why they are so strong. Viper Blinding Cloud and Abduct on a single caster is OUTRAGEOUS and on top of that it can fly. Infestor a 2 supply unit that can MOVE IN STEALTH and instantly steal 6 supply units that cost tons of minerals and gas FROM RANGE. Zerg casters should be nerfed hard and be forced to have to make specific army comps to counter Terran and Protoss, right now you can combine almost anything with these casters and you have a working counter that can respond to any enemy composition. Zerg casters are way too versatile. And there is a reason Zergs always end up with the bigger banks in a game it's because not only do they get to expand more but their armies are extremely cost efficient. Zergs power lies in fast remax,quick tech switches, cheap and many fast units. Zerg in SC was built and balanced around what I mentioned above but at the moment Zerg does not need to use those strengths because Blizzard gave them armies so strong they outrade armies that can cost waaaay more then the Zerg army. Zerg is ment to use its advantages aggressively but now all they do is eat up the map with bases and creep and have armies that are extremely hard to engage. That is another reason why Banelings are so strong now because we are supposed to accept Zerg can generate these insane banks so they can afford to make 100 friggin banelings that cost only 50 supply. It's madness and I seriously don't understand why there is not more outrage against this. | ||
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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On December 18 2019 20:08 Dedraterllaerau wrote: Infestor a 2 supply unit that can MOVE IN STEALTH and instantly steal 6 supply units that cost tons of minerals and gas FROM RANGE. This line of thought is not productive. You can describe pretty much any unit in the game and make them sound overpowered by marking their advantages in big letters and leaving out the rest. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
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GrandSmurf
Netherlands462 Posts
On December 18 2019 20:56 WaesumNinja wrote: This line of thought is not productive. You can describe pretty much any unit in the game and make them sound overpowered by marking their advantages in big letters and leaving out the rest. do point out the flaws of an infestor ? | ||
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
On December 18 2019 20:56 WaesumNinja wrote: This line of thought is not productive. You can describe pretty much any unit in the game and make them sound overpowered by marking their advantages in big letters and leaving out the rest. No, I can't describe any other unit in the game the way I can so easily point out how ridiculously strong Infestors and Vipers are. Any person in a good frame of mind would be able to understand that in a game based on economy having the ability to grab and kill units with almost no risk involved is broken. Not only that its low risk high reward but some of the units they grab cost twice or more their own cost in both resources and supply. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On December 18 2019 21:24 GrandSmurf wrote: do point out the flaws of an infestor ? They are ugly. and hum... that's it ? On December 18 2019 20:56 WaesumNinja wrote: This line of thought is not productive. You can describe pretty much any unit in the game and make them sound overpowered by marking their advantages in big letters and leaving out the rest. Scv are 1 supply unit that can move THROUGH UNITS and they cost only 50 minerals and on TOP OF THAT they can REPAIR ! Did i do this right ?  | ||
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91matt
United Kingdom147 Posts
On December 18 2019 21:39 Dedraterllaerau wrote: No, I can't describe any other unit in the game the way I can so easily point out how ridiculously strong Infestors and Vipers are. Any person in a good frame of mind would be able to understand that in a game based on economy having the ability to grab and kill units with almost no risk involved is broken. Not only that its low risk high reward but some of the units they grab cost twice or more their own cost in both resources and supply. Should zerg have any good units or should they just get rolled over by mass air or mass tank ? | ||
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Neeba
2 Posts
On a more serious note, why do infestors even need a 3rd strong spell? Zerg spell casters are already the strongest in the game. And why do they keep buffing zerg even though it's supposed to be nerfed after winning 3(!) blizzcons in a row?! | ||
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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On December 18 2019 21:24 GrandSmurf wrote: do point out the flaws of an infestor ? Ghosts can wipe out an entire mineral line by itself. An infestor can not. Templars can instantly destroy spellcasters at range or at the very least remove all their energy. Infestors can not. Ghosts can also remove spellcaster energy at range but also as an aoe effect. Infestors can not. Once out of energy, Templars can combine and become a very powerful offensive unit. Infestors can not. High Templar can wipe out clusters of units using Storm, even clearing mineral lines with ease. Infestors can not. Ghosts can instantly wipe out tier 3 units at long range from stealth using snipe. Infestors can not. Ghosts at least possess some kind of attack after they're out of energy. Infestors don't, and just run around in the way of your other units. Infestors have the biggest hitbox, making them very clumsy. Infestors are 'armored', so they take bonus damage from more sources than the other spellcasters do. Counting as biological is also not much of an advantage against ghosts... These are just from the top of my mind. There's probably many more, but no, infestors are not this God unit so many make it out to be. On December 18 2019 21:47 FFW_Rude wrote: Scv are 1 supply unit that can move THROUGH UNITS and they cost only 50 minerals and on TOP OF THAT they can REPAIR ! Did i do this right ? No, you didn't do it right and you're well aware of that. Of course you'd pick to describe SCV instead of something like the carrier. | ||
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Metalmade
5 Posts
Compared to the Battlecruiser or the Carrier, Brood Lords are ridiculously weak. With no AA to defend itself, and its slow movement speed, its practically useless without support. With their slow movement speed they are easily outmaneuvered and with the latest balance changes, they get totally shit on by thors. Compare that to a Carrier or a BC whose get faster on the field, move faster, hit harder, hit air and can be recalled or teleported if out of position. You could say that a BC costs 150 minerals and 50 gas more than a Brood Lord (and a Carrier 50 minerals more), but you have to consider the amount of corruptors you have to make to support them. You can have a Battle Cruiser, teleporting 5 Minutes into the game, into your opponents main and do huge amount of damage, if the opponent doesnt react properly. Imagine the damage potential of a single Brood Lord. | ||
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
On December 18 2019 22:02 91matt wrote: Should zerg have any good units or should they just get rolled over by mass air or mass tank ? Corruptors? Parasitic Bomb? Hydra? Blinding cloud? Corrosive Bile? Fungal? Queens? Swarmhost? Brood Lords? Does that answer your question? Zerg don't need neural or abduct. | ||
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Neeba
2 Posts
Infestor and BL is the BANE of this game, they always has been. How can you say that they're not the strongest..? Everyone knows that this composition has always been nearly unbeatable and blatantly op since the game came out. Back in WoL literally the only way of beating it was archon toilet. And more recently in the past 2 years we haven't seen A SINGLE pro match where somebody lost with mass spores + infestors (with the bugged infested terrans) and BLs. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On December 18 2019 17:23 Harris1st wrote: Can't tell if you are serious or not ^^ I have never seen shroud used in a pro game, ever That's probably the joke | ||
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
On December 18 2019 22:16 WaesumNinja wrote: The bias of some people. Ghosts can wipe out an entire mineral line by itself. An infestor can not. Templars can instantly destroy spellcasters at range or at the very least remove all their energy. Infestors can not. Ghosts can also remove spellcaster energy at range but also as an aoe effect. Infestors can not. Once out of energy, Templars can combine and become a very powerful offensive unit. Infestors can not. High Templar can wipe out clusters of units using Storm, even clearing mineral lines with ease. Infestors can not. Ghosts can instantly wipe out tier 3 units at long range from stealth using snipe. Infestors can not. Ghosts at least possess some kind of attack after they're out of energy. Infestors don't, and just run around in the way of your other units. Infestors have the biggest hitbox, making them very clumsy. Infestors are 'armored', so they take bonus damage from more sources than the other spellcasters do. Counting as biological is also not much of an advantage against ghosts... These are just from the top of my mind. There's probably many more, but no, infestors are not this God unit so many make it out to be. No, you didn't do it right and you're well aware of that. Of course you'd pick to describe SCV instead of something like the carrier. Good job there mate, everything you just wrote is completely irrelevant because what is relevant is the late game army interactions where the Infestor is 100 times easier and better to use because you can use it from a defensive standpoint while Terran and Protoss risk their casters and almost 100% loses them everytime they use them making them 100 times less cost efficient then a Infestor. Nice try doh. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6993 Posts
What would be a good scenario for Shroud where Neural or Fungal isn't better? I mean, it is used vs air. So I imagine some sort of hydra / infestor comp. Also the whining is this thread is unreal. Get it together people | ||
Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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