• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:10
CEST 00:10
KST 07:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)63ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Possible bug in the new patch?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9697 users

4.11.3 Patch (Adept revert) + Community Update - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
124 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Crozo64
Profile Joined May 2016
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-05 03:53:10
January 05 2020 03:43 GMT
#121
And the gold league post of the month goes to ...
On January 05 2020 09:35 BerserkSword wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:
On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)

- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..

How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???

I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.

This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).

Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst


Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map.

The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control.

A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran.

SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning.


Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades.

Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one.

Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios.

MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses.

Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired.

The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map.

And you want to give Terran more map control abilities?



Seriously tho there are so much things wrong in this post but it's too long and a waste of time to discuss with someone like this, sorry just wanted to say this.

Parcelleus
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia1662 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-05 07:16:50
January 05 2020 07:16 GMT
#122
On January 05 2020 12:43 Crozo64 wrote:
And the gold league post of the month goes to ...
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2020 09:35 BerserkSword wrote:
On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:
On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)

- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..

How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???

I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.

This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).

Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst


Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map.

The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control.

A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran.

SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning.


Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades.

Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one.

Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios.

MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses.

Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired.

The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map.

And you want to give Terran more map control abilities?



Seriously tho there are so much things wrong in this post but it's too long and a waste of time to discuss with someone like this, sorry just wanted to say this.



Considering you have not been able to provide a compelling response to the CONTENT of BerserkSword's post and focus on insulting the poster, I think this makes it very clear what is going on here.
*burp*
WaesumNinja
Profile Joined February 2012
210 Posts
January 05 2020 09:23 GMT
#123
Sorry if a bit meme-y but you're in the same league as this guy. Now we just need another salty person to describe how broken Protoss is.

On December 18 2019 20:08 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
That's what most Zergs think, that you don't have any options if your casters get nerfed. Problem with Zerg is you have so many options which are why they are so strong.

Viper Blinding Cloud and Abduct on a single caster is OUTRAGEOUS and on top of that it can fly.

Infestor a 2 supply unit that can MOVE IN STEALTH and instantly steal 6 supply units that cost tons of minerals and gas FROM RANGE.

Zerg casters should be nerfed hard and be forced to have to make specific army comps to counter Terran and Protoss, right now you can combine almost anything with these casters and you have a working counter that can respond to any enemy composition.

Zerg casters are way too versatile.

And there is a reason Zergs always end up with the bigger banks in a game it's because not only do they get to expand more but their armies are extremely cost efficient. Zergs power lies in fast remax,quick tech switches, cheap and many fast units.

Zerg in SC was built and balanced around what I mentioned above but at the moment Zerg does not need to use those strengths because Blizzard gave them armies so strong they outrade armies that can cost waaaay more then the Zerg army. Zerg is ment to use its advantages aggressively but now all they do is eat up the map with bases and creep and have armies that are extremely hard to engage.

That is another reason why Banelings are so strong now because we are supposed to accept Zerg can generate these insane banks so they can afford to make 100 friggin banelings that cost only 50 supply. It's madness and I seriously don't understand why there is not more outrage against this.

Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
875 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-05 11:00:49
January 05 2020 09:45 GMT
#124
On January 05 2020 16:16 Parcelleus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2020 12:43 Crozo64 wrote:
And the gold league post of the month goes to ...
On January 05 2020 09:35 BerserkSword wrote:
On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:
On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)

- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..

How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???

I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.

This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).

Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst


Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map.

The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control.

A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran.

SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning.


Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades.

Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one.

Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios.

MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses.

Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired.

The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map.

And you want to give Terran more map control abilities?



Seriously tho there are so much things wrong in this post but it's too long and a waste of time to discuss with someone like this, sorry just wanted to say this.



Considering you have not been able to provide a compelling response to the CONTENT of BerserkSword's post and focus on insulting the poster, I think this makes it very clear what is going on here.



Well it s true,
There s no need to much thought to understand how wrong are these arguments, either taken separetly..

I can easily bring to light what races specificities have or not.. This is already the subject, 'changes in the core of a race' which means there are probably (in the case of creep) multiple reasons in each races that make creep too powerfull (can t be resolved by a single change).

It seems you recite all the caracteristics of Terran race with forgetting the most important one.... Terran units are way way weaker when they attack in isolated manner.. That s why Pentarp's post is good (he s saying how important Terran has to hold on middle map, how the control of Terran is powerfull but not so big) , how a terran could defend a whole border line of creep without somes cost efficient units ? Mines only ? (which are only cost efficient in the main army group of Terran, even at PRO level)

So Berserksword forgot :

1) Terran mobility need significant micro management / siege mode / burrow mines
2) unit groups can t trade enought (Not so good separetly) in multiple defensive positions
3) 'The most incredible' : Supply cost for mines : 2 - while Supply cost for banelings : 0.5 (more expansive than an ultralisk)
4) +30% speed on creep... (not an argument but a specificity of Zerg)
5) Mines versatility
etc...

If you don t read only few posts above argumentation of Berserksword, his post mostly play to our advantages
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16079 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-05 11:08:17
January 05 2020 11:03 GMT
#125
Protoss has way too many options right now which are too hard to counter.

They have the strongest deathball in the game with devastating Aoe damage which the opponent needs 3 hands to negate meanwhile toss a-moves.

The ability to see the entire map with invisible Observers and free hallucination scouts + maphack revelations.
Protoss can't be surprised because they know what the opponent does all the time.

The ability to instantly create an army ANYWHERE ON THE MAP for just 200 minerals. Oh wait it got nerfed now it's 250 minerals such a huge nerf.

Furthermore Probes can just warpin buildings and INSTANTLY return to mining while Terran Scvs are occupied during the whole building process and drones get DESTROYED in the process.
This leads to Protoss always having a superior economy.

On top of that they have the biggest balls in the game with disruptors. With such huge balls they are able to do riskier attacks than Zerg or Terran.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Bombastic Starleague
20:00
GosuLeague Ro16 - Swiss
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech129
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 94
Purpose 9
Dota 2
syndereN466
League of Legends
Doublelift3659
Other Games
summit1g10940
shahzam566
byalli336
ceh9269
Mew2King135
UpATreeSC119
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream1853
Other Games
BasetradeTV165
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 121
• musti20045 28
• mYiSmile116
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 32
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie780
• Scarra469
• Shiphtur266
Upcoming Events
Douyu Cup 2020
6h 50m
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Big Brain Bouts
17h 50m
Jumy vs eGGz
Harstem vs sebesdes
TriGGeR vs HeRoMaRinE
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 6h
Maestros of the Game
1d 14h
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 15h
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Bombastic Starleague
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
OSC
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Bombastic Starleague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-24
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.