• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:06
CET 19:06
KST 03:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0244LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles
Tourneys
The Dave Testa Open #11 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ CasterMuse Youtube TvZ is the most complete match up A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread New broswer game : STG-World
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here!
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1179 users

4.11.3 Patch (Adept revert) + Community Update - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
124 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Crozo64
Profile Joined May 2016
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-05 03:53:10
January 05 2020 03:43 GMT
#121
And the gold league post of the month goes to ...
On January 05 2020 09:35 BerserkSword wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:
On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)

- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..

How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???

I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.

This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).

Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst


Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map.

The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control.

A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran.

SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning.


Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades.

Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one.

Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios.

MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses.

Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired.

The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map.

And you want to give Terran more map control abilities?



Seriously tho there are so much things wrong in this post but it's too long and a waste of time to discuss with someone like this, sorry just wanted to say this.

Parcelleus
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia1662 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-05 07:16:50
January 05 2020 07:16 GMT
#122
On January 05 2020 12:43 Crozo64 wrote:
And the gold league post of the month goes to ...
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2020 09:35 BerserkSword wrote:
On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:
On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)

- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..

How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???

I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.

This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).

Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst


Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map.

The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control.

A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran.

SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning.


Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades.

Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one.

Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios.

MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses.

Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired.

The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map.

And you want to give Terran more map control abilities?



Seriously tho there are so much things wrong in this post but it's too long and a waste of time to discuss with someone like this, sorry just wanted to say this.



Considering you have not been able to provide a compelling response to the CONTENT of BerserkSword's post and focus on insulting the poster, I think this makes it very clear what is going on here.
*burp*
WaesumNinja
Profile Joined February 2012
210 Posts
January 05 2020 09:23 GMT
#123
Sorry if a bit meme-y but you're in the same league as this guy. Now we just need another salty person to describe how broken Protoss is.

On December 18 2019 20:08 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
That's what most Zergs think, that you don't have any options if your casters get nerfed. Problem with Zerg is you have so many options which are why they are so strong.

Viper Blinding Cloud and Abduct on a single caster is OUTRAGEOUS and on top of that it can fly.

Infestor a 2 supply unit that can MOVE IN STEALTH and instantly steal 6 supply units that cost tons of minerals and gas FROM RANGE.

Zerg casters should be nerfed hard and be forced to have to make specific army comps to counter Terran and Protoss, right now you can combine almost anything with these casters and you have a working counter that can respond to any enemy composition.

Zerg casters are way too versatile.

And there is a reason Zergs always end up with the bigger banks in a game it's because not only do they get to expand more but their armies are extremely cost efficient. Zergs power lies in fast remax,quick tech switches, cheap and many fast units.

Zerg in SC was built and balanced around what I mentioned above but at the moment Zerg does not need to use those strengths because Blizzard gave them armies so strong they outrade armies that can cost waaaay more then the Zerg army. Zerg is ment to use its advantages aggressively but now all they do is eat up the map with bases and creep and have armies that are extremely hard to engage.

That is another reason why Banelings are so strong now because we are supposed to accept Zerg can generate these insane banks so they can afford to make 100 friggin banelings that cost only 50 supply. It's madness and I seriously don't understand why there is not more outrage against this.

Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
874 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-05 11:00:49
January 05 2020 09:45 GMT
#124
On January 05 2020 16:16 Parcelleus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2020 12:43 Crozo64 wrote:
And the gold league post of the month goes to ...
On January 05 2020 09:35 BerserkSword wrote:
On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:
On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)

- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..

How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???

I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.

This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).

Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst


Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map.

The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control.

A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran.

SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning.


Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades.

Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one.

Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios.

MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses.

Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired.

The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map.

And you want to give Terran more map control abilities?



Seriously tho there are so much things wrong in this post but it's too long and a waste of time to discuss with someone like this, sorry just wanted to say this.



Considering you have not been able to provide a compelling response to the CONTENT of BerserkSword's post and focus on insulting the poster, I think this makes it very clear what is going on here.



Well it s true,
There s no need to much thought to understand how wrong are these arguments, either taken separetly..

I can easily bring to light what races specificities have or not.. This is already the subject, 'changes in the core of a race' which means there are probably (in the case of creep) multiple reasons in each races that make creep too powerfull (can t be resolved by a single change).

It seems you recite all the caracteristics of Terran race with forgetting the most important one.... Terran units are way way weaker when they attack in isolated manner.. That s why Pentarp's post is good (he s saying how important Terran has to hold on middle map, how the control of Terran is powerfull but not so big) , how a terran could defend a whole border line of creep without somes cost efficient units ? Mines only ? (which are only cost efficient in the main army group of Terran, even at PRO level)

So Berserksword forgot :

1) Terran mobility need significant micro management / siege mode / burrow mines
2) unit groups can t trade enought (Not so good separetly) in multiple defensive positions
3) 'The most incredible' : Supply cost for mines : 2 - while Supply cost for banelings : 0.5 (more expansive than an ultralisk)
4) +30% speed on creep... (not an argument but a specificity of Zerg)
5) Mines versatility
etc...

If you don t read only few posts above argumentation of Berserksword, his post mostly play to our advantages
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16044 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-05 11:08:17
January 05 2020 11:03 GMT
#125
Protoss has way too many options right now which are too hard to counter.

They have the strongest deathball in the game with devastating Aoe damage which the opponent needs 3 hands to negate meanwhile toss a-moves.

The ability to see the entire map with invisible Observers and free hallucination scouts + maphack revelations.
Protoss can't be surprised because they know what the opponent does all the time.

The ability to instantly create an army ANYWHERE ON THE MAP for just 200 minerals. Oh wait it got nerfed now it's 250 minerals such a huge nerf.

Furthermore Probes can just warpin buildings and INSTANTLY return to mining while Terran Scvs are occupied during the whole building process and drones get DESTROYED in the process.
This leads to Protoss always having a superior economy.

On top of that they have the biggest balls in the game with disruptors. With such huge balls they are able to do riskier attacks than Zerg or Terran.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech144
UpATreeSC 131
BRAT_OK 91
MindelVK 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Dewaltoss 141
Dota 2
Gorgc6462
qojqva1475
Counter-Strike
fl0m1823
adren_tv72
ptr_tv40
Other Games
Grubby2874
singsing2147
FrodaN1677
tarik_tv847
B2W.Neo749
Beastyqt469
ceh9466
DeMusliM255
ArmadaUGS163
KnowMe127
ToD124
RotterdaM119
C9.Mang074
Sick70
Trikslyr68
NotJumperer2
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL374
Other Games
BasetradeTV106
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 173
• StrangeGG 62
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota246
League of Legends
• Nemesis4765
• TFBlade1199
• Shiphtur359
Other Games
• imaqtpie546
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 54m
The PondCast
15h 54m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
OSC
2 days
SC Evo Complete
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-22
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.