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And the gold league post of the month goes to ... On January 05 2020 09:35 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)
- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..
How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???
I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.
This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).
Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map. The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control. A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran. SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning. Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades. Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one. Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios. MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses. Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired. The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map. And you want to give Terran more map control abilities?
Seriously tho there are so much things wrong in this post but it's too long and a waste of time to discuss with someone like this, sorry just wanted to say this.
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On January 05 2020 12:43 Crozo64 wrote:And the gold league post of the month goes to ... Show nested quote +On January 05 2020 09:35 BerserkSword wrote:On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)
- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..
How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???
I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.
This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).
Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map. The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control. A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran. SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning. Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades. Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one. Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios. MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses. Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired. The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map. And you want to give Terran more map control abilities? Seriously tho there are so much things wrong in this post but it's too long and a waste of time to discuss with someone like this, sorry just wanted to say this.
Considering you have not been able to provide a compelling response to the CONTENT of BerserkSword's post and focus on insulting the poster, I think this makes it very clear what is going on here.
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Sorry if a bit meme-y but you're in the same league as this guy. Now we just need another salty person to describe how broken Protoss is.
On December 18 2019 20:08 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
That's what most Zergs think, that you don't have any options if your casters get nerfed. Problem with Zerg is you have so many options which are why they are so strong.
Viper Blinding Cloud and Abduct on a single caster is OUTRAGEOUS and on top of that it can fly.
Infestor a 2 supply unit that can MOVE IN STEALTH and instantly steal 6 supply units that cost tons of minerals and gas FROM RANGE.
Zerg casters should be nerfed hard and be forced to have to make specific army comps to counter Terran and Protoss, right now you can combine almost anything with these casters and you have a working counter that can respond to any enemy composition.
Zerg casters are way too versatile.
And there is a reason Zergs always end up with the bigger banks in a game it's because not only do they get to expand more but their armies are extremely cost efficient. Zergs power lies in fast remax,quick tech switches, cheap and many fast units.
Zerg in SC was built and balanced around what I mentioned above but at the moment Zerg does not need to use those strengths because Blizzard gave them armies so strong they outrade armies that can cost waaaay more then the Zerg army. Zerg is ment to use its advantages aggressively but now all they do is eat up the map with bases and creep and have armies that are extremely hard to engage.
That is another reason why Banelings are so strong now because we are supposed to accept Zerg can generate these insane banks so they can afford to make 100 friggin banelings that cost only 50 supply. It's madness and I seriously don't understand why there is not more outrage against this.
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On January 05 2020 16:16 Parcelleus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2020 12:43 Crozo64 wrote:And the gold league post of the month goes to ... On January 05 2020 09:35 BerserkSword wrote:On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)
- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..
How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???
I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.
This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).
Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map. The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control. A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran. SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning. Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades. Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one. Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios. MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses. Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired. The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map. And you want to give Terran more map control abilities? Seriously tho there are so much things wrong in this post but it's too long and a waste of time to discuss with someone like this, sorry just wanted to say this. Considering you have not been able to provide a compelling response to the CONTENT of BerserkSword's post and focus on insulting the poster, I think this makes it very clear what is going on here.
Well it s true,
There s no need to much thought to understand how wrong are these arguments, either taken separetly..
I can easily bring to light what races specificities have or not.. This is already the subject, 'changes in the core of a race' which means there are probably (in the case of creep) multiple reasons in each races that make creep too powerfull (can t be resolved by a single change).
It seems you recite all the caracteristics of Terran race with forgetting the most important one.... Terran units are way way weaker when they attack in isolated manner.. That s why Pentarp's post is good (he s saying how important Terran has to hold on middle map, how the control of Terran is powerfull but not so big) , how a terran could defend a whole border line of creep without somes cost efficient units ? Mines only ? (which are only cost efficient in the main army group of Terran, even at PRO level)
So Berserksword forgot :
1) Terran mobility need significant micro management / siege mode / burrow mines
2) unit groups can t trade enought (Not so good separetly) in multiple defensive positions
3) 'The most incredible' : Supply cost for mines : 2 - while Supply cost for banelings : 0.5 (more expansive than an ultralisk)
4) +30% speed on creep... (not an argument but a specificity of Zerg)
5) Mines versatility
etc...
If you don t read only few posts above argumentation of Berserksword, his post mostly play to our advantages
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Protoss has way too many options right now which are too hard to counter.
They have the strongest deathball in the game with devastating Aoe damage which the opponent needs 3 hands to negate meanwhile toss a-moves.
The ability to see the entire map with invisible Observers and free hallucination scouts + maphack revelations.
Protoss can't be surprised because they know what the opponent does all the time.
The ability to instantly create an army ANYWHERE ON THE MAP for just 200 minerals. Oh wait it got nerfed now it's 250 minerals such a huge nerf.
Furthermore Probes can just warpin buildings and INSTANTLY return to mining while Terran Scvs are occupied during the whole building process and drones get DESTROYED in the process.
This leads to Protoss always having a superior economy.
On top of that they have the biggest balls in the game with disruptors. With such huge balls they are able to do riskier attacks than Zerg or Terran.
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EPT
