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On December 21 2019 07:18 ThunderJunk wrote:
Everyone's focusing on ZvP, but Microbial shroud is definitely going to be a huge factor for breaking liberator lines in ZvT. That's the primary use case.
It's not very good, hydras are killed in 3 shots instead of 2 under the shrood. So you save 50/25 per hydras shot on the cloud, but considering infest pit + shrood + pathogen and two infestors cost 600/700, you need to fight with more than 12 hydras in two clouds to be worth it.
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On December 19 2019 00:08 ZugzwangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2019 19:28 ejozl wrote:... I think the shroud ability doesn't have to be so absolutely niche. A flavour thing you can do is to make it so when Marines and only Marines die while under the Shroud they become Infested Terrans and I'm not talking the Infested Terran of recent memory, but basically a shitty melee Zombie unit, have it be timeless so ppl would try accumulate the biggest zombie legion as possible  That is a brilliant idea to both broaden the spell's appeal and simultaneously retain a piece of the infested terran legacy. I particularly like the proposed details: (a) they should suck like an 80's-era Hollywood zombie; and (b) stick around until killed so there's the potential to really mass them up. The drawback is it's a disincentive for Terran to make marines so in practice we might not see all that many zombie legions.
It would be logical to have the infested terran ability depend on the ol' swarm having actually killed some terrans. (The killed enemies providing "ammunition" for the infestors.) Thus it would not function against terran mech unless the zerg had killed SCVs. That would mean it could not function at all against Z or P of course.
Going further, it would be fun if "spawn infested terran" became "spawn infested enemy", where the spawned units were randomly selected from biological units that the zerg had killed, with the cost in mana proportional to the original cost of the unit.
I was going to say no flying units, but it would also be fun to see brood lords flopping about on the ground trying to bite the enemy's ankles or suffin'.
End of new spell fantasy
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On December 18 2019 22:02 91matt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2019 21:39 Dedraterllaerau wrote:On December 18 2019 20:56 WaesumNinja wrote:On December 18 2019 20:08 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
Infestor a 2 supply unit that can MOVE IN STEALTH and instantly steal 6 supply units that cost tons of minerals and gas FROM RANGE. This line of thought is not productive. You can describe pretty much any unit in the game and make them sound overpowered by marking their advantages in big letters and leaving out the rest. No, I can't describe any other unit in the game the way I can so easily point out how ridiculously strong Infestors and Vipers are. Any person in a good frame of mind would be able to understand that in a game based on economy having the ability to grab and kill units with almost no risk involved is broken. Not only that its low risk high reward but some of the units they grab cost twice or more their own cost in both resources and supply. Should zerg have any good units or should they just get rolled over by mass air or mass tank ?
That's a silly question if you know anything about the balance team
Zerg are supposed to have strong units
Terran are supposed to be fun to play
And Protoss are supposed to die
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On December 19 2019 23:14 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Players should be encouraged to mass up and trade low and mid tier units all game long,
This is the most FULL NA thing ive read all year +1
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On December 26 2019 04:16 THERIDDLER wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2019 23:14 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Players should be encouraged to mass up and trade low and mid tier units all game long, This is the most FULL NA thing ive read all year +1
I mean do you find turtling in your base and having one big fight to be more compelling gameplay?
He said that this is what should happen not what does happen. Games with lots of interaction are just plain more fun and more interesting. At least in the opinion of many of us.
If you don't like those kind of games, you are entitled to your opinion but don't act like people who disagree with you are noobs with no justification behind it.
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HeRoMaRiNe talked a lot about the state of TvZ today. He says the mech is viable so the matchup is not necessarily imbalanced, but that style (BCs and mech) is just not very fun to watch all the time. It's very predictable.
Here's why bio with ghost/lib doesn't work anymore:
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On December 28 2019 04:58 sneakyfox wrote:HeRoMaRiNe talked a lot about the state of TvZ today. He says the mech is viable so the matchup is not necessarily imbalanced, but that style (BCs and mech) is just not very fun to watch all the time. It's very predictable. Here's why bio with ghost/lib doesn't work anymore: https://clips.twitch.tv/SaltyEagerRaccoonEagleEye
It's simple, maps need to be more like King's Cove if u want very late game tvz bio ghost. the expands need to be safe and not too far otherwise the mobility of the zerg army just crush u if u are out of position which is really impossible to avoid if u play on the current maps ( and that's why we only see mech recently ). BTW i got downvoted in reddit for saying exactly what heromarine says here, funny how clueless the community can be.
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On December 28 2019 06:32 Crozo64 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2019 04:58 sneakyfox wrote:HeRoMaRiNe talked a lot about the state of TvZ today. He says the mech is viable so the matchup is not necessarily imbalanced, but that style (BCs and mech) is just not very fun to watch all the time. It's very predictable. Here's why bio with ghost/lib doesn't work anymore: https://clips.twitch.tv/SaltyEagerRaccoonEagleEye It's simple, maps need to be more like King's Cove if u want very late game tvz bio ghost. the expands need to be safe and not too far otherwise the mobility of the zerg army just crush u if u are out of position which is really impossible to avoid if u play on the current maps ( and that's why we only see mech recently ). BTW i got downvoted in reddit for saying exactly what heromarine says here, funny how clueless the community can be.
Maybe because you are not a professional like Heromarine, keep pushing :D
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On December 29 2019 05:11 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2019 06:32 Crozo64 wrote:On December 28 2019 04:58 sneakyfox wrote:HeRoMaRiNe talked a lot about the state of TvZ today. He says the mech is viable so the matchup is not necessarily imbalanced, but that style (BCs and mech) is just not very fun to watch all the time. It's very predictable. Here's why bio with ghost/lib doesn't work anymore: https://clips.twitch.tv/SaltyEagerRaccoonEagleEye It's simple, maps need to be more like King's Cove if u want very late game tvz bio ghost. the expands need to be safe and not too far otherwise the mobility of the zerg army just crush u if u are out of position which is really impossible to avoid if u play on the current maps ( and that's why we only see mech recently ). BTW i got downvoted in reddit for saying exactly what heromarine says here, funny how clueless the community can be. Maybe because you are not a professional like Heromarine, keep pushing :D
Does it matter when what im saying is true ?
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What did you expect from Reddit circlejerkers?
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On December 18 2019 20:08 Dedraterllaerau wrote:
And there is a reason Zergs always end up with the bigger banks in a game it's because not only do they get to expand more but their armies are extremely cost efficient.
LOL
I'd say you should uninstall SC2 immediately, but it's pretty obvious you never installed or played it
User was temp banned for this post.
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The most recent two week period on aligulac is interesting: http://aligulac.com/periods/257/ .
Of course it's only one data point in the offseason with no big tournaments going on and you can quibble about aligulac's methodology, but this is as far as I can tell the best two week period for terran in TvZ since Wings of Liberty.
I guess we'll see in the coming weeks if this was just a huge outlier or if zerg starts figuring out the thor styles that are popular now.
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TvZ for December was 51.46% overall: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/
Swings across periods aren't uncommon, I doubt this one is too significant, though the patch does seem to have had a positive effect overall.
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I like the small tidbits of statistics that don't really say much. Example: Best terran overall in Ziggurat's link is Maru. Best TvP is Cure, best TvT is Cure. Maru is solely leading with TvZ, meaning that Cure sucks vs Z and/or Maru dominates vs Z.
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On January 01 2020 22:45 Athenau wrote:TvZ for December was 51.46% overall: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/Swings across periods aren't uncommon, I doubt this one is too significant, though the patch does seem to have had a positive effect overall.
While swings across periods are quite common, a swing this big isn't at all. TvZ's been hovering at roughly 46-47% all year with maybe 4% variation between periods usually so 61% is at the very least a huge outlier if it doesn't indicate some change in balance.
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On January 02 2020 02:06 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2020 22:45 Athenau wrote:TvZ for December was 51.46% overall: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/Swings across periods aren't uncommon, I doubt this one is too significant, though the patch does seem to have had a positive effect overall. While swings across periods are quite common, a swing this big isn't at all. TvZ's been hovering at roughly 46-47% all year with maybe 4% variation between periods usually so 61% is at the very least a huge outlier if it doesn't indicate some change in balance.
The previous period was 46.14% (http://aligulac.com/periods/256/?sort=&race=ptzrs&nats=all), so what changed between the first half of December and the second?
I mean, it's clear that the patch did affect balance, as the December stats show, but I don't see this particular period as indicative of a larger trend indicating imbalance the other way.
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On January 02 2020 02:06 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2020 22:45 Athenau wrote:TvZ for December was 51.46% overall: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/Swings across periods aren't uncommon, I doubt this one is too significant, though the patch does seem to have had a positive effect overall. While swings across periods are quite common, a swing this big isn't at all. TvZ's been hovering at roughly 46-47% all year with maybe 4% variation between periods usually so 61% is at the very least a huge outlier if it doesn't indicate some change in balance.
When more Terrans start winning because of balance changes, winrates spike up until they even out again when those Terrans start losing more to better Zergs they meet higher up in the brackets.
That's why TvZ has been close 50% all year because of the a handful A-tier Terrans smacking down a huge number of lower tier Zergs when they face them in the higher brackets.
So yeah, winrates are high, but without factoring for the representation of the races, it's not a very high quality statistic.
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I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)
- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..
How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???
I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.
This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).
Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst
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On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)
- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..
How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???
I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.
This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).
Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst
Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map.
The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control.
A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran.
SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning.
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On January 05 2020 08:44 Pentarp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2020 02:52 Vision_ wrote:
I propose 50% reduction on bunkers build time (automatically enable when enginerring bay is done) .. (and combined to a small creep size reduction)
- You can fix / hold on easily more positions on maps,
- Protect tanks behind the bunker,
- It have a synergy with mines,
- Sligthly force ennemies to get around your defences,
- Add micro management units inside and outside bunkers (Hype feature !!! )..
How such a building, so representative of Terran race, can be forgotten / gived up ???
I can add if stimpack is counter balanced by centrifugal hooks (and inversement), the bunker efficiency is really impaced by centrifugal hooks and no upgrade has been made to avoid this imbalanced interaction; in fact more you re waiting Zerg attack far from your base, more he can crush you, that s why i think it s necessary to settle faster.
This idea is really basic and intuitive, furthermore adding vcs in the terran army is already in meta (missile turrets / repair). I m trying to implement this change in galaxy editor but it s more complicated than expected (if someone know ?!).
Keep in mind Terrans have played their best game on this kind of maps... <3 Ohana <3 <3 <3 Catalyst Given how much map control is possible for other races with creep (vision and speed) and warp-tech (near-instant reinforcements), Terrans really need something that helps them hold the center of the map. The threat of drops did that in early iterations of the game. But now that other races can also threaten similar tactics (warp prism, nydus), Terrans really haven't kept up in map control. A change to the mechanics here, as you suggested, would also help distinguish the good from the great Terrans. Given equal raw mechanics, a more strategic Terran will benefit more from map-control over a "max to 200 supply and a-move" Terran. SC2 sorely needs more strategy, not in unit comps or build openers, but in map-control, army-movement and positioning.
Terran has unmatched ability to old a position. The best "set and forget" units in liberators, widow mines, and tanks, which are so potent that they usually pay for themselves in spades.
Planetary fortresses which literally turn the tide of a game if a Protoss or Zerg player takes a single bad engagement attacking into one.
Mass orbital commands which means terran has the easier time taking and exploiting far off bases than protoss does, as well as mining without workers which can thrwo a wrench in zerg economy in lategame split match scenarios.
MMM that can move around the map at mach speed while being so efficient that they can trade well if not better than most protoss and zerg compositions that are used for pinch defenses.
Battlecruisers, the most powerful unit in the game bar none, that is more powerful than literally anything pound for pound, can delete its counters, insane burst damage, teleport anywhere in the map, force ridiculous base trades, and can be fully repaired.
The Ghost which has the same dps as a stalker, comes out on top vs all other casters, can cloak and be used to nuke spam a map.
And you want to give Terran more map control abilities?
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EPT
