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Northern Ireland27353 Posts
Anxiety/stress as a response isn’t purely a bump in one’s heart rate there’s a whole slew of other components to it, although that’s certainly part of it too.
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On December 16 2019 04:53 greenturtle23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 04:02 L_Master wrote:On December 16 2019 03:25 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 16 2019 02:03 greenturtle23 wrote:On December 14 2019 10:57 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game? I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark. Everyone is different. As someone with a clinical anxiety disorder many everyday situations that for most people do not cause anxiety cause me anxiety. In school, I would shake and have a racing heart just from having to same my name for attendance. I fortunately don't get this from gaming, but it does not surprise me that some people do. Brains are complicated. Even though our mind understands these are not threatening situations, our brain can perceive them that way. Aye. I’ve never had anxiety for big exams, or performing on stage or whatever that cause others a lot of stress, but plenty of mundane stuff freaks me out. Yea, it's just interesting to hear about all these huge HR responses. I've gotten spooked out on the trail recovering between intervals, thinking I had run into a mountain lion...and yea my HR spiked up from 80 to about 130bpm, but that was a literal life and death situation and I was already being physically active. Fascinating that a decent number of people seem to have responses on par with, or beyond, that for non life threatening situations. I haven't heard that from any of my friends, but like anything could be a curve and I'm more of a low responder to stress whereas others are higher responders (although, mentally and how my body felt I can't imagine being more stressed/scared than right then) Yup that doesn't surprise me too much that none of your friends have this response. Those with anxiety are in general less likely to make friends. For my own situation the few times The few rare times I have actually been in life threatening situations, I wasn't anxious per se. I was hyper focused and alert, my heart was fast, but I didn't feel actually anxious. I think of the normal anxiousness as the brain saying "there is something wrong with this situation, leave before something bad happens". The actual life threatening situations are more like "you are in the shit now, let's focus and deal with it." Typing this is causing me a high HR response, but not 130 high. Would guess maybe 20 over my baseline? Not fun but not too awful . Thinking about it later will probably cause a higher one. Part of the reason I usually just lurk and not post.
Yea, I dealt with anxiety quite bad starting in around late 2017 after a little nighttime panic attack that I took as a health scare and sent me down a path to some really bad anxiety where I was constantly worried about the next health problem or thing that was going to go wrong. I also hated while I felt while anxious: keyed up, stressed, usually a sensation or tension in my chest...just feeling like I needed to.....sprint. I hated that feeling enough that I got to the point where I was getting anxious about being anxious. The anxiety itself actually manifested itself as unbelievably varied constellation of symptoms, such that whenever I thought I was getting a handle on one thing, another new "symptom" would appear and freak me the fuck out.
Eventually, I got the point where I said enough is enough I can't stand how it feels being like that, and walked myself back from that mess over the period of about 3-4 months (my sleep still has some affect, it's not 100% recovered yet). I actually ended up writing a fairly lengthy blog on how that all went down.
That 20bpm rise you talk about is familiar. When I had my worst anxiety moments I would usually jump up between 20-30bpm what I would expect to be completely at rest and at ease. It was the 100bpm rises that people are talking about that was shocking to me.
On December 16 2019 06:20 Wombat_NI wrote:
Anxiety/stress as a response isn’t purely a bump in one’s heart rate there’s a whole slew of other components to it, although that’s certainly part of it too.
Absolutely. I think I'd be inclined to say that there is almost nothing that anxiety cannot do. It's truly incredible.
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On December 16 2019 00:53 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 22:09 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On December 14 2019 07:52 L_Master wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2019 06:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 04:34 L_Master wrote:On December 13 2019 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming. Except being sedentary, which is a huge risk factor. You can get up and move around between games, so it's technically exclusive of gaming...but generally isn't. There has no been no real conclusive evidence that being sedentary isolated from all other factors increases the risk to high blood pressure, in the same way that a lack of excercise has been. It's not the playing of games that gives you high blood pressure. And yes, you can get up and move in between games. Don't you need to goto the toilet? I should have caveated by statement a little more stating instead: "which is appearing more and more like a huge risk factor", but my inclination is to take major exception to this statement. Are you suggesting your so up to date on every prominent medical/scientific journal that you know for certain no such studies exist. I believe there are informed people out there that read a decent amount of literature, but your statement is exceedingly confident, even by such standards. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30763169https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27702747https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30111495https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27208318https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2091327/sedentary-time-its-association-risk-disease-incidence-mortality-hospitalization-adultsThis is a stater pack, there are several dozen other studies all showing these impacts. Some are clinical trials/experimental type studies, some are cohort studies, some are cross sectional studies...and vast majority of them are finding the impact that longer periods of sedentary behavior have, irrespective of exercise or other factors. For you to say "there has been no real conclusive evidence" is just a massive stretch to me. There is never "conclusive" evidence in epidemiology anyways. Just trends, correlations, etc. Is this pattern as established as the beneficial link between exercise and diabetes or BP? No. Of course not. We've only been suspecting and investigating the sitting link aggressively over perhaps the last decade. What evidence we are getting is generally pointing a pretty consistent picture though. You randomly post links hoping that supports you? Why do this? There is no excuse for posting random links that don't even support what you wrote. You seem unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term, not a catch all term for heart disease. None of those links mention high blood pressure or their medical terms. Various cardiovascular diesease yes, but they are not the same thing as high blood pressure, though hypertension does increase risk of cardiovascular disease. According to known medical research, there is nothing linking being sedentary to hypertension. A sedentary lifestyle is unhealthy and everyone can benefit to changing to a more active and healthy lifestyle. However being sedentary is not one of the risk factors for high blood pressure. There simply is no known link to being sedentary and hypertension. I know this is the internets, but there is utterly no reason to give bad medical advice. On the one hand, you're absolutely correct. None of the stuff I posted dealt with high BP specifically. It dealt with blood sugar response, other cardiac issues, and all cause mortality. On the other hand, no you didnt think I was unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term. It's pretty clear I hadn't read your post tightly enough to realize that you wanted a specific hypertension discussion and not general cardiac health and all cause mortality. My mistake for skimming. This is, following the discussion of the thread, a discussion of health as it relates to gaming. It's not a nuanced scientific discussion of sitting/gaming and high BP. It's a discussion of "What can be done to not have your health be damaged from lots of gaming." If you believe that the statement "sitting for long period is unhealthy, you should get up and move and around on a consistent basis" is poor advice, I'm not really sure what to say. If you're objecting to that statement as "you should get up and move around to reduce high BP"....okay, yes. You are correct that isnt supported. Doesnt make the advice bad though. You're style definitely rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps you intend this. Comes off as very arrogant, very "I'm right, this guy is clueless and I need to show this idiot just how clueless he is". It's not really my fault that you don't know the difference between high blood pressure and heart disease.
It's also not my fault that you went ahead and posted a bunch of links that you said proved you right, but actually did not, bluffing that I will not understand them just on the basis that you are intimidated by medical terms.
But I wasn't expecting an apology from you anyways.
There are plenty of free medical advice on the internet, or from professionals, there is no excuse for posting bad or untruthful medical advice.
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On December 16 2019 08:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 00:53 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 22:09 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On December 14 2019 07:52 L_Master wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2019 06:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 04:34 L_Master wrote:On December 13 2019 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming. Except being sedentary, which is a huge risk factor. You can get up and move around between games, so it's technically exclusive of gaming...but generally isn't. There has no been no real conclusive evidence that being sedentary isolated from all other factors increases the risk to high blood pressure, in the same way that a lack of excercise has been. It's not the playing of games that gives you high blood pressure. And yes, you can get up and move in between games. Don't you need to goto the toilet? I should have caveated by statement a little more stating instead: "which is appearing more and more like a huge risk factor", but my inclination is to take major exception to this statement. Are you suggesting your so up to date on every prominent medical/scientific journal that you know for certain no such studies exist. I believe there are informed people out there that read a decent amount of literature, but your statement is exceedingly confident, even by such standards. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30763169https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27702747https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30111495https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27208318https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2091327/sedentary-time-its-association-risk-disease-incidence-mortality-hospitalization-adultsThis is a stater pack, there are several dozen other studies all showing these impacts. Some are clinical trials/experimental type studies, some are cohort studies, some are cross sectional studies...and vast majority of them are finding the impact that longer periods of sedentary behavior have, irrespective of exercise or other factors. For you to say "there has been no real conclusive evidence" is just a massive stretch to me. There is never "conclusive" evidence in epidemiology anyways. Just trends, correlations, etc. Is this pattern as established as the beneficial link between exercise and diabetes or BP? No. Of course not. We've only been suspecting and investigating the sitting link aggressively over perhaps the last decade. What evidence we are getting is generally pointing a pretty consistent picture though. You randomly post links hoping that supports you? Why do this? There is no excuse for posting random links that don't even support what you wrote. You seem unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term, not a catch all term for heart disease. None of those links mention high blood pressure or their medical terms. Various cardiovascular diesease yes, but they are not the same thing as high blood pressure, though hypertension does increase risk of cardiovascular disease. According to known medical research, there is nothing linking being sedentary to hypertension. A sedentary lifestyle is unhealthy and everyone can benefit to changing to a more active and healthy lifestyle. However being sedentary is not one of the risk factors for high blood pressure. There simply is no known link to being sedentary and hypertension. I know this is the internets, but there is utterly no reason to give bad medical advice. On the one hand, you're absolutely correct. None of the stuff I posted dealt with high BP specifically. It dealt with blood sugar response, other cardiac issues, and all cause mortality. On the other hand, no you didnt think I was unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term. It's pretty clear I hadn't read your post tightly enough to realize that you wanted a specific hypertension discussion and not general cardiac health and all cause mortality. My mistake for skimming. This is, following the discussion of the thread, a discussion of health as it relates to gaming. It's not a nuanced scientific discussion of sitting/gaming and high BP. It's a discussion of "What can be done to not have your health be damaged from lots of gaming." If you believe that the statement "sitting for long period is unhealthy, you should get up and move and around on a consistent basis" is poor advice, I'm not really sure what to say. If you're objecting to that statement as "you should get up and move around to reduce high BP"....okay, yes. You are correct that isnt supported. Doesnt make the advice bad though. You're style definitely rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps you intend this. Comes off as very arrogant, very "I'm right, this guy is clueless and I need to show this idiot just how clueless he is". It's not really my fault that you don't know the difference between high blood pressure and heart disease. It's also not my fault that you went ahead and posted a bunch of links that you said proved you right, but actually did not, bluffing that I will not understand them just on the basis that you are intimidated by medical terms. But I wasn't expecting an apology from you anyways. There are plenty of free medical advice on the internet, or from professionals, there is no excuse for posting bad or untruthful medical advice.
Did I correct myself and say I failed to read what you wrote carefully and responded with information irrelevant to your point? Yes. Did I say my mistake for skimming and not reading you carefully? Yes.
I hadn't read your post tightly enough to realize that you wanted a specific hypertension discussion and not general cardiac health and all cause mortality. My mistake for skimming.
If that's not someone saying "Hey dude, my bad". I don't know what is.
It's also not my fault that you went ahead and posted a bunch of links that you said proved you right, but actually did not, bluffing that I will not understand them just on the basis that you are intimidated by medical terms.
Do you, honestly, think that is what I was doing? You think I'm just lying when I said above "Hey dude, I skimmed your post and responded thinking you were referring to health in general, not specifically hypertension".
I posted links related to blood sugar response, diabetes, and all cause mortality not because I was bluffing and didn't think you were going to fail to understand them...but because I thought you had made a different statement than you had. People misread things.
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Northern Ireland27353 Posts
On December 16 2019 07:22 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 04:53 greenturtle23 wrote:On December 16 2019 04:02 L_Master wrote:On December 16 2019 03:25 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 16 2019 02:03 greenturtle23 wrote:On December 14 2019 10:57 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game? I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark. Everyone is different. As someone with a clinical anxiety disorder many everyday situations that for most people do not cause anxiety cause me anxiety. In school, I would shake and have a racing heart just from having to same my name for attendance. I fortunately don't get this from gaming, but it does not surprise me that some people do. Brains are complicated. Even though our mind understands these are not threatening situations, our brain can perceive them that way. Aye. I’ve never had anxiety for big exams, or performing on stage or whatever that cause others a lot of stress, but plenty of mundane stuff freaks me out. Yea, it's just interesting to hear about all these huge HR responses. I've gotten spooked out on the trail recovering between intervals, thinking I had run into a mountain lion...and yea my HR spiked up from 80 to about 130bpm, but that was a literal life and death situation and I was already being physically active. Fascinating that a decent number of people seem to have responses on par with, or beyond, that for non life threatening situations. I haven't heard that from any of my friends, but like anything could be a curve and I'm more of a low responder to stress whereas others are higher responders (although, mentally and how my body felt I can't imagine being more stressed/scared than right then) Yup that doesn't surprise me too much that none of your friends have this response. Those with anxiety are in general less likely to make friends. For my own situation the few times The few rare times I have actually been in life threatening situations, I wasn't anxious per se. I was hyper focused and alert, my heart was fast, but I didn't feel actually anxious. I think of the normal anxiousness as the brain saying "there is something wrong with this situation, leave before something bad happens". The actual life threatening situations are more like "you are in the shit now, let's focus and deal with it." Typing this is causing me a high HR response, but not 130 high. Would guess maybe 20 over my baseline? Not fun but not too awful . Thinking about it later will probably cause a higher one. Part of the reason I usually just lurk and not post. Yea, I dealt with anxiety quite bad starting in around late 2017 after a little nighttime panic attack that I took as a health scare and sent me down a path to some really bad anxiety where I was constantly worried about the next health problem or thing that was going to go wrong. I also hated while I felt while anxious: keyed up, stressed, usually a sensation or tension in my chest...just feeling like I needed to.....sprint. I hated that feeling enough that I got to the point where I was getting anxious about being anxious. The anxiety itself actually manifested itself as unbelievably varied constellation of symptoms, such that whenever I thought I was getting a handle on one thing, another new "symptom" would appear and freak me the fuck out. Eventually, I got the point where I said enough is enough I can't stand how it feels being like that, and walked myself back from that mess over the period of about 3-4 months (my sleep still has some affect, it's not 100% recovered yet). I actually ended up writing a fairly lengthy blog on how that all went down. That 20bpm rise you talk about is familiar. When I had my worst anxiety moments I would usually jump up between 20-30bpm what I would expect to be completely at rest and at ease. It was the 100bpm rises that people are talking about that was shocking to me. Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 06:20 Wombat_NI wrote:
Anxiety/stress as a response isn’t purely a bump in one’s heart rate there’s a whole slew of other components to it, although that’s certainly part of it too. Absolutely. I think I'd be inclined to say that there is almost nothing that anxiety cannot do. It's truly incredible.
Aye sadly for many people, myself included.
I quit playing Starcraft due to anxiety and stress issues, not I might add caused by StarCraft itself but for various other reasons, but that destroyed the fun of ladder.
Was never amazing but, decent enough at the game. Enjoyed learning it and stubbornly trying to play passive macro builds every game and making them work.
Had one day laddering where the cognitive fog that comes with anxiety (and is rather underplayed as a symptom) just descended to such a ridiculous degree that I tried to forge expand against a Terran (actually a decent build against one rax gasless in WoL, was a build I stole from Oz but this game wasn’t going for that!) forgot warpgate in one game, forgot my first pylon in another game. The first pylon I mean Jesus.
Never laddered since outside of a drunken evening playing Terran and doing stupid cheeses every game, which was pretty fun.
It’s an odd thing indeed. There’s an evolutionary reason we have anxiety as a mechanism, but it’s meant to be when we spot a tiger prowling around! Somehow it afflicts people with even the most mundane of situations.
On a brighter note things have sort of settled and I’m looking forward to getting stomped on ladder again sometime soon!
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