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Hi,
Many of you may or may not be aware Blood Pressure is the "silent killer". Heart disease is the top killer in the US with the most mortality rates. Obviously, there is diet and exercise, which I'm sure any physician will tell you to do; however, I fear the risks are higher with the gaming industry.
I don't know about you, but I'm 37 and played this game since 2000 (BW) and I look in the mirror and my face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game with continuous back-and-forth interaction. I do have high blood pressure and I take medication, but I know these spikes in heart rate are not good. I've also been diagnosed with premature carpal tunnel after playing 10's of thousands of games.
With Geoff dying this year, I think there are many things the younger generation needs to be concerned about. I've been gaming solidly for 20 years and I'm starting to see the risks involved. Although working in the corporate world, I look at myself, and start to see how my hobby has impacted my health - which will be amplified for any progamer.
Thanks for reading
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929.php#heart-disease
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Well, beeing highly concentrated and adrenaline rushing through your veins is nothing negative. Rather it is a very positive thing. But ofc it is limited to the time you are under pressure, be it at Starcraft or some regular exercising.
High blood pressure comes from beeing overweight, alcohol, too much salt and stress. So it's not the gaming that kills you but rather what in can bring with it (in some cases) : Frozen pizza, coke and redbull, sitting in a chair 12 hours a day,...
Just keep a nice life balance and high blood pressure should not be a problem, regardless if you like to play games or not
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 13 2019 17:31 Harris1st wrote:
Well, beeing highly concentrated and adrenaline rushing through your veins is nothing negative. Rather it is a very positive thing. But ofc it is limited to the time you are under pressure, be it at Starcraft or some regular exercising.
High blood pressure comes from beeing overweight, alcohol, too much salt and stress. So it's not the gaming that kills you but rather what in can bring with it (in some cases) : Frozen pizza, coke and redbull, sitting in a chair 12 hours a day,...
Just keep a nice life balance and high blood pressure should not be a problem, regardless if you like to play games or not
Also not everybody lives in the US, blood pressure is a pretty regular starting point of a doctor visit in CZE  Especially if you know that *everybody* who's employed has a preliminary check and then every 3 years for the LOWEST risk employees.
So, uh, yeah.
Also I definitely agree with the adrenaline thing, i get all the symptoms of having it high after SC2 games. Shaking hands, higher temperature than normal, higher heart beat rate(IIRC I get up to 160 during games(my max is 215 though ))
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Exercise, Exercise, Exercise. I cannot emphasize this enough to gamers or office people who sit in chairs all day/night. I'm 42 years old and I take a brisk 30-40 minute walk every day, and it helps immensely with my blood pressure and joint stiffness, among other things.
I also have carpal tunnel in my right wrist, and when I'm not playing games I switch to my left hand for mousing to give my right wrist a break.
If you have both high blood pressure and carpal tunnel, listen to your body. If you feel pain or weakness when gaming, STOP for the day or at least take a 30-60 minute break. Don't push yourself unnecessarily.
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Above all else: sleep and diet. Exercise is secondary to those things. You can be regularly active and have high blood pressure. High blood pressure is mostly a symptom of poor diet or stress management. More veggies/fruits, less blood clotters.
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On December 13 2019 17:31 Harris1st wrote:
Well, beeing highly concentrated and adrenaline rushing through your veins is nothing negative. Rather it is a very positive thing. But ofc it is limited to the time you are under pressure, be it at Starcraft or some regular exercising.
High blood pressure comes from beeing overweight, alcohol, too much salt and stress. So it's not the gaming that kills you but rather what in can bring with it (in some cases) : Frozen pizza, coke and redbull, sitting in a chair 12 hours a day,...
Just keep a nice life balance and high blood pressure should not be a problem, regardless if you like to play games or not
Here is where I differ: You can have high blood pressure without being overweight; this is very common. I am not overweight and have high blood pressure. I've talked to several doctors which all say the same thing: "It is the uneven spikes in pressure that's put on your heart that causes damage." Now this is NOT when you exercise. It is when you are sitting that your heart spikes because of gaming, stress, alcohol, salts (like you mentioned).
It is a MISCONCEPTION that high blood pressure is always related to lifestyle (a majority of the time it is) but many times it is not.
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On December 13 2019 20:45 pinky29 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2019 17:31 Harris1st wrote:
Well, beeing highly concentrated and adrenaline rushing through your veins is nothing negative. Rather it is a very positive thing. But ofc it is limited to the time you are under pressure, be it at Starcraft or some regular exercising.
High blood pressure comes from beeing overweight, alcohol, too much salt and stress. So it's not the gaming that kills you but rather what in can bring with it (in some cases) : Frozen pizza, coke and redbull, sitting in a chair 12 hours a day,...
Just keep a nice life balance and high blood pressure should not be a problem, regardless if you like to play games or not Here is where I differ: You can have high blood pressure without being overweight; this is very common. I am not overweight and have high blood pressure. I've talked to several doctors which all say the same thing: "It is the uneven spikes in pressure that's put on your heart that causes damage." Now this is NOT when you exercise. It is when you are sitting that your heart spikes because of gaming, stress, alcohol, salts (like you mentioned). It is a MISCONCEPTION that high blood pressure is always related to lifestyle (a majority of the time it is) but many times it is not.
I think that hypertension, primary hypertension in this case, has a pathophysiology that isn't attributable fully or even mostly attributable to "uneven spikes in pressure". It is very complex, and not fully understood based on current literature regardless of what several doctors or other reliable bodies of evidence have told us. We do know the risk factors for it, though, and I think that is more likely the relationship (if any truly exists) between playing games for hours on end and developing hypertension. That is to say, modifiable risk factors e.g. obesity, salt intake, alcohol, lack of exercise, on top of the non-modifiable ones like your family history and race.
By the way, about your interesting theory about "heart spikes": the closest thing on a physiological level that may match your theory imo is chronic stress, with increased sympathetic and cortisol outflow and long-term vasculopathy. If you stretch that theory way far out, maybe you'll find some relevance there. Point acknowledged about people who get hypertension even though they're not obese, although of course the non-modifiable components such as genes/familial predisposition need to be put into question there.
Let's not run away from the fact that being obese and having all those poor lifestyle habits make you substantially more likely to get hypertension on top of the usual silent killers e.g. diabetes and hyperlipidemia.
In any case - the bottomline here seems to be that no matter how hazy the evidence is, a person who plays a lot of computer games all day long would probably fare a lot better against the risk of metabolic syndrome and the likes if they don't just simply sit on their arse, eat unhealthily and grow really fat.
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What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming.
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On December 13 2019 18:43 Chris_Havoc wrote:
Exercise, Exercise, Exercise. I cannot emphasize this enough to gamers or office people who sit in chairs all day/night. I'm 42 years old and I take a brisk 30-40 minute walk every day, and it helps immensely with my blood pressure and joint stiffness, among other things.
I also have carpal tunnel in my right wrist, and when I'm not playing games I switch to my left hand for mousing to give my right wrist a break.
If you have both high blood pressure and carpal tunnel, listen to your body. If you feel pain or weakness when gaming, STOP for the day or at least take a 30-60 minute break. Don't push yourself unnecessarily.
This is very true, when I was younger and practiced no sports I would suffer the same symptoms op is talking about. After getting familiarized with exercising (jogging, abdominal, push-up and strength training) a lot of these issues went away and I am no longer under such high pressure when I play. Sports, diet and healthy lifestyle practices really do make a difference, even when playing games such as these.
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On December 13 2019 18:43 Chris_Havoc wrote:
Exercise, Exercise, Exercise. I cannot emphasize this enough to gamers or office people who sit in chairs all day/night. I'm 42 years old and I take a brisk 30-40 minute walk every day, and it helps immensely with my blood pressure and joint stiffness, among other things.
I also have carpal tunnel in my right wrist, and when I'm not playing games I switch to my left hand for mousing to give my right wrist a break.
If you have both high blood pressure and carpal tunnel, listen to your body. If you feel pain or weakness when gaming, STOP for the day or at least take a 30-60 minute break. Don't push yourself unnecessarily.
It's a combination of a few factors:
1) Poor Diet
2) Lack of Exercise
3) Higher Stress Lower Sleep
4) Sedentary
I'm going to say that you can exercise and still be "sedentary". I need a better word for it, but what I mean is that if you sit all day and go run for 90', that's much better than doing nothing, but arguably worse than if you moved regularly throughout the day never sitting more than 20'-30' at a time.
Regular movement is a big deal, you have to turn it into a habit to get up out of your chair all the time. One game and then go move around for 30 seconds or a minute. Regular short breaks at work if you have a desk job, etc.
Everyone knows what's up with exercise. Some aerobic, some strength bases. Doesn't need to be much, 3-5 hours a week is PLENTY.
Stress is pretty well know, and probably the hardest to change.
Sleep is underrated but plays a huge role in all of these things. The difference between 6 and 7.5 hours a night of sleep is massive in every study I've ever seen. Also, many sleep in on the weekends thinking that helps. It doesn't, in fact it appears to make the problem worse. You get more sleep, yes, but mess up your sleep cycle and then sleep quality drops along with regulation of things like hormones and blood sugar and you end up worse off.
Diet is probably king. Everybody has their different ideas, but the general portion of consensus usually is:
1) Cut out refined oils: stick to EVOO, coconut oil, grass fed butter etc. No refined or seed oils.
2) High vegetable intake: 8-10+ servings a day. Most people are lucky to get half or a third of that
3) Eliminate/Drastically reduce processed food, anything packaged or prepared.
Do those three things and your diet starts to be pretty healthy.
If eating meat:
1) Increase the amount of seafood
2) Use grass fed products
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On December 13 2019 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming.
Except being sedentary, which is a huge risk factor. You can get up and move around between games, so it's technically exclusive of gaming...but generally isn't.
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On December 13 2019 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2019 17:31 Harris1st wrote:
Well, beeing highly concentrated and adrenaline rushing through your veins is nothing negative. Rather it is a very positive thing. But ofc it is limited to the time you are under pressure, be it at Starcraft or some regular exercising.
High blood pressure comes from beeing overweight, alcohol, too much salt and stress. So it's not the gaming that kills you but rather what in can bring with it (in some cases) : Frozen pizza, coke and redbull, sitting in a chair 12 hours a day,...
Just keep a nice life balance and high blood pressure should not be a problem, regardless if you like to play games or not Also not everybody lives in the US, blood pressure is a pretty regular starting point of a doctor visit in CZE Especially if you know that *everybody* who's employed has a preliminary check and then every 3 years for the LOWEST risk employees. So, uh, yeah. Also I definitely agree with the adrenaline thing, i get all the symptoms of having it high after SC2 games. Shaking hands, higher temperature than normal, higher heart beat rate(IIRC I get up to 160 during games(my max is 215 though ))
What?!
Is this like tournament stress in some major career defining game you're trying to win? Or is it a semi-common experience?
I've never seen higher than 50% of max, period, and my normal values gaming would be around 25-30% of max. In good shape, but definitely cannot imagine my HR being 75% of max sitting there playing a game.
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On December 14 2019 04:39 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2019 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On December 13 2019 17:31 Harris1st wrote:
Well, beeing highly concentrated and adrenaline rushing through your veins is nothing negative. Rather it is a very positive thing. But ofc it is limited to the time you are under pressure, be it at Starcraft or some regular exercising.
High blood pressure comes from beeing overweight, alcohol, too much salt and stress. So it's not the gaming that kills you but rather what in can bring with it (in some cases) : Frozen pizza, coke and redbull, sitting in a chair 12 hours a day,...
Just keep a nice life balance and high blood pressure should not be a problem, regardless if you like to play games or not Also not everybody lives in the US, blood pressure is a pretty regular starting point of a doctor visit in CZE Especially if you know that *everybody* who's employed has a preliminary check and then every 3 years for the LOWEST risk employees. So, uh, yeah. Also I definitely agree with the adrenaline thing, i get all the symptoms of having it high after SC2 games. Shaking hands, higher temperature than normal, higher heart beat rate(IIRC I get up to 160 during games(my max is 215 though )) What?! Is this like tournament stress in some major career defining game you're trying to win? Or is it a semi-common experience? I've never seen higher than 50% of max, period, and my normal values gaming would be around 25-30% of max. In good shape, but definitely cannot imagine my HR being 75% of max sitting there playing a game.
My blood pressure is lower than average, but this post is incredibly ignorant. Obviously, everyone is different so what's normal to you might not be normal for someone else. You might have perfect blood pressure but terrible teeth, yet the other person could have vice versa of that. It's facts of life.
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On December 14 2019 04:34 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2019 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming. Except being sedentary, which is a huge risk factor. You can get up and move around between games, so it's technically exclusive of gaming...but generally isn't. There has no been no real conclusive evidence that being sedentary isolated from all other factors increases the risk to high blood pressure, in the same way that a lack of excercise has been. It's not the playing of games that gives you high blood pressure. And yes, you can get up and move in between games. Don't you need to goto the toilet?
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On December 14 2019 06:06 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 04:39 L_Master wrote:On December 13 2019 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On December 13 2019 17:31 Harris1st wrote:
Well, beeing highly concentrated and adrenaline rushing through your veins is nothing negative. Rather it is a very positive thing. But ofc it is limited to the time you are under pressure, be it at Starcraft or some regular exercising.
High blood pressure comes from beeing overweight, alcohol, too much salt and stress. So it's not the gaming that kills you but rather what in can bring with it (in some cases) : Frozen pizza, coke and redbull, sitting in a chair 12 hours a day,...
Just keep a nice life balance and high blood pressure should not be a problem, regardless if you like to play games or not Also not everybody lives in the US, blood pressure is a pretty regular starting point of a doctor visit in CZE Especially if you know that *everybody* who's employed has a preliminary check and then every 3 years for the LOWEST risk employees. So, uh, yeah. Also I definitely agree with the adrenaline thing, i get all the symptoms of having it high after SC2 games. Shaking hands, higher temperature than normal, higher heart beat rate(IIRC I get up to 160 during games(my max is 215 though )) What?! Is this like tournament stress in some major career defining game you're trying to win? Or is it a semi-common experience? I've never seen higher than 50% of max, period, and my normal values gaming would be around 25-30% of max. In good shape, but definitely cannot imagine my HR being 75% of max sitting there playing a game. My blood pressure is lower than average, but this post is incredibly ignorant. Obviously, everyone is different so what's normal to you might not be normal for someone else. You might have perfect blood pressure but terrible teeth, yet the other person could have vice versa of that. It's facts of life.
I have no idea where you are coming from. What you wrote is absolutely true, except for the part that I bolded which I am clueless how you came to that conclusion.
I shared that I was surprised he saw near 80% of maximum HR playing a game. That's close to threshold for many people, or over it, a very high level of exertion. Noticing that, I then asked what sort of conditions produced that HR value...out of curiosity.
It's definitely not ignorant to share your own experiences, nor to ask questions.
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Bro, do you think Hunky Muscle-Stud Thanos Mastery Bros didn't feel pain when working out? You're making yourself good at something that actually matters. It's a better life than getting pushed around by a nagging other.
In the meantime, pray: To the God of Starcraft Gains. At the church of TL.
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On December 14 2019 06:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 04:34 L_Master wrote:On December 13 2019 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming. Except being sedentary, which is a huge risk factor. You can get up and move around between games, so it's technically exclusive of gaming...but generally isn't. There has no been no real conclusive evidence that being sedentary isolated from all other factors increases the risk to high blood pressure, in the same way that a lack of excercise has been. It's not the playing of games that gives you high blood pressure. And yes, you can get up and move in between games. Don't you need to goto the toilet?
I should have caveated by statement a little more stating instead: "which is appearing more and more like a huge risk factor", but my inclination is to take major exception to this statement.
Are you suggesting your so up to date on every prominent medical/scientific journal that you know for certain no such studies exist. I believe there are informed people out there that read a decent amount of literature, but your statement is exceedingly confident, even by such standards.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30763169
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27702747
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30111495
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27208318
https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2091327/sedentary-time-its-association-risk-disease-incidence-mortality-hospitalization-adults
This is a stater pack, there are several dozen other studies all showing these impacts. Some are clinical trials/experimental type studies, some are cohort studies, some are cross sectional studies...and vast majority of them are finding the impact that longer periods of sedentary behavior have, irrespective of exercise or other factors.
For you to say "there has been no real conclusive evidence" is just a massive stretch to me. There is never "conclusive" evidence in epidemiology anyways. Just trends, correlations, etc. Is this pattern as established as the beneficial link between exercise and diabetes or BP? No. Of course not. We've only been suspecting and investigating the sitting link aggressively over perhaps the last decade. What evidence we are getting is generally pointing a pretty consistent picture though.
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How many people died this year due to high blood pressure caused from playing sc2 or any other game?
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On December 14 2019 08:16 WeakOwl wrote:
How many people died this year due to high blood pressure caused from playing sc2 or any other game?
I don't think anyone knows.
But a couple of years ago while playing a different game (Battlerite) the adrenaline from the match caused my blood pressure and heartrate to spike. And I almost died from it.
Of course, I had a preexisting case of hypertension that I wasn't taking seriously. And the increased heart rate from the intense gameplay, well. It ruptured the inner layer of my aorta. It's a miracle I lived through it; Doctor said it's something like one in a billion chances that you don't die within 5 minutes. I somehow lived for a few months with it before I got checked (yay American healthcare system!).
I think instead of cautioning against SC2 or any other e-sports, though, my takeaway is this: If you have high blood pressure? GO TO THE FUCKING DOCTOR. It will kill you.
If you have unexplained shortness of breath? GO TO THE FUCKING DOCTOR. It will kill you.
If you feel pain in your chest or between your shoulder blades during any sort of exertion? GO TO THE FUCKING DOCTOR. It will kill you.
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Trumpeters die young of emphysema, accountatns are hunted by mafia and sc2 players suffer high blood pressure...
You don't love it, you don't do it 
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High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
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On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game?
I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark.
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Sorry guys, but are you insane? Getting HR and BP high from ladder games? I mean, you aren't pros, wtf.
I am gaming for more then 10 years, I am sedentary, fat, smoker, I have all factors to have problems with this but eating healthy, cutting smokes, brisk walking for 60-70 minutes per day lowered HR and BP a bit. You cant expect sitting all day, drinking coffee, smoking, walking 3k steps and be healthy. It's not about SC2, it's about lifestyle. You can be emotional to TV show or work, this isn't any way related to gaming.
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On December 14 2019 19:05 JanDe wrote:
Sorry guys, but are you insane? Getting HR and BP high from ladder games? I mean, you aren't pros, wtf.
I am gaming for more then 10 years, I am sedentary, fat, smoker, I have all factors to have problems with this but eating healthy, cutting smokes, brisk walking for 60-70 minutes per day lowered HR and BP a bit. You cant expect sitting all day, drinking coffee, smoking, walking 3k steps and be healthy. It's not about SC2, it's about lifestyle. You can be emotional to TV show or work, this isn't any way related to gaming.
I mean I've been hospitalized before for a panic attack(probably the only time, as I can recognize the signs now and address it). Heart rate over 150, breathing at like 50-60. Prior to the ambulance I had been at home for about 6 hours doing basically nothing aside from progressively feeling more and more like shit. If your brain thinks you're going to die, it literally doesn't matter what your body is doing, it's going to prepare you for battle. It doesn't surprise me at all that some people would get part way there from playing ladder and getting too stressed..
It is not necessarily linked to fitness. Different people handle stress in different ways, and unfortunately, some(me included) don't handle it as well.
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See, i play my healthy dose of starcraft and i do triathlon. you cant circumvent an underlying health problem. Eating too much of anything let alone what we consider to be 'bad' for us and doing too little in the form of excercise will hurt you just as much if i over train or push too hard in a race which takes over 8 hrs to complete.
High blood pressure is a reult of way too much of something in your body, lots of people say salt but ive had soaring pressures and i limit the intake of this. The science out there is a guide to me as i can (as i have done) tried vegan / /carnovore / veg and other diets and had the same success as i have had failures. For me, i feel the best when everything is in balance. As i near my later years and have used myself as an experiement in these things all i can tell you is sitting around for 40+ minutes with little movement, swilling energy drinks/coffee/sugar drinks is not good. As a very trained athlete i can tell you if ive banged sc2 for 2hrs then gone on a run i want to give up after 2k . . .and i run 27k on the weekend for sheer fun and want to go again when done . . .family stops this thirst i have for the sport!
All in moderation people! Some people want to overcomplicate this simple few words and sell you all sorts of shit in terms of products and ideas.
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On December 14 2019 07:52 L_Master wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2019 06:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 04:34 L_Master wrote:On December 13 2019 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming. Except being sedentary, which is a huge risk factor. You can get up and move around between games, so it's technically exclusive of gaming...but generally isn't. There has no been no real conclusive evidence that being sedentary isolated from all other factors increases the risk to high blood pressure, in the same way that a lack of excercise has been. It's not the playing of games that gives you high blood pressure. And yes, you can get up and move in between games. Don't you need to goto the toilet? I should have caveated by statement a little more stating instead: "which is appearing more and more like a huge risk factor", but my inclination is to take major exception to this statement. Are you suggesting your so up to date on every prominent medical/scientific journal that you know for certain no such studies exist. I believe there are informed people out there that read a decent amount of literature, but your statement is exceedingly confident, even by such standards. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30763169https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27702747https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30111495https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27208318https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2091327/sedentary-time-its-association-risk-disease-incidence-mortality-hospitalization-adultsThis is a stater pack, there are several dozen other studies all showing these impacts. Some are clinical trials/experimental type studies, some are cohort studies, some are cross sectional studies...and vast majority of them are finding the impact that longer periods of sedentary behavior have, irrespective of exercise or other factors. For you to say "there has been no real conclusive evidence" is just a massive stretch to me. There is never "conclusive" evidence in epidemiology anyways. Just trends, correlations, etc. Is this pattern as established as the beneficial link between exercise and diabetes or BP? No. Of course not. We've only been suspecting and investigating the sitting link aggressively over perhaps the last decade. What evidence we are getting is generally pointing a pretty consistent picture though. You randomly post links hoping that supports you? Why do this? There is no excuse for posting random links that don't even support what you wrote. You seem unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term, not a catch all term for heart disease. None of those links mention high blood pressure or their medical terms. Various cardiovascular diesease yes, but they are not the same thing as high blood pressure, though hypertension does increase risk of cardiovascular disease. According to known medical research, there is nothing linking being sedentary to hypertension. A sedentary lifestyle is unhealthy and everyone can benefit to changing to a more active and healthy lifestyle. However being sedentary is not one of the risk factors for high blood pressure. There simply is no known link to being sedentary and hypertension. I know this is the internets, but there is utterly no reason to give bad medical advice.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
According to known medical research, there is nothing linking being sedentary to hypertension. A sedentary lifestyle is unhealthy and everyone can benefit to changing to a more active and healthy lifestyle. However being sedentary is not one of the risk factors for high blood pressure.
There's plenty of data backing up the current consensus that exercise contributes to a healthy blood pressure and that it contributes to maintaining a lower body fat percentage which is one of the biggest if not the #1 factor in blood pressure control. I don't know why you would dispute either, it's well accepted. Can link some sources later if you like.
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Sedentary is not the same as lack of excercise. In the very post Lmaster had quoted of me, I already wrote that lack of excercise increases risk of high blood pressure in the very post that was quoted of me that Lmaster quoted and insists that it is gaming, specifically sedentary gaming ie sitting down whilst gaming, that increases risk of high blood pressure. As it is, being sedentary has been associated with many medical problems, but high blood pressure is not one of them. As long as you are active, sitting down down does not increase your risk of high blood pressure.
There is no reason to give unfounded medical advice and doubly so to post a bunch of links that doesn't back you up.
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On December 14 2019 20:18 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 19:05 JanDe wrote:
Sorry guys, but are you insane? Getting HR and BP high from ladder games? I mean, you aren't pros, wtf.
I am gaming for more then 10 years, I am sedentary, fat, smoker, I have all factors to have problems with this but eating healthy, cutting smokes, brisk walking for 60-70 minutes per day lowered HR and BP a bit. You cant expect sitting all day, drinking coffee, smoking, walking 3k steps and be healthy. It's not about SC2, it's about lifestyle. You can be emotional to TV show or work, this isn't any way related to gaming. I mean I've been hospitalized before for a panic attack(probably the only time, as I can recognize the signs now and address it). Heart rate over 150, breathing at like 50-60. Prior to the ambulance I had been at home for about 6 hours doing basically nothing aside from progressively feeling more and more like shit. If your brain thinks you're going to die, it literally doesn't matter what your body is doing, it's going to prepare you for battle. It doesn't surprise me at all that some people would get part way there from playing ladder and getting too stressed.. It is not necessarily linked to fitness. Different people handle stress in different ways, and unfortunately, some(me included) don't handle it as well.
I am suffering from anxiety myself and I was also hospitalized once but not becuase of HR.
I am not talking about fight or flight mechanism. Inseriouspy doubt someone can activate it from ladder. You need much bigger stress or to persuade yourself you are going to die. I really can'y link out situations and this one.
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Austria11528 Posts
On December 14 2019 20:27 capacityex wrote:
See, i play my healthy dose of starcraft and i do triathlon. you cant circumvent an underlying health problem. Eating too much of anything let alone what we consider to be 'bad' for us and doing too little in the form of excercise will hurt you just as much if i over train or push too hard in a race which takes over 8 hrs to complete.
High blood pressure is a reult of way too much of something in your body, lots of people say salt but ive had soaring pressures and i limit the intake of this. The science out there is a guide to me as i can (as i have done) tried vegan / /carnovore / veg and other diets and had the same success as i have had failures. For me, i feel the best when everything is in balance. As i near my later years and have used myself as an experiement in these things all i can tell you is sitting around for 40+ minutes with little movement, swilling energy drinks/coffee/sugar drinks is not good. As a very trained athlete i can tell you if ive banged sc2 for 2hrs then gone on a run i want to give up after 2k . . .and i run 27k on the weekend for sheer fun and want to go again when done . . .family stops this thirst i have for the sport!
All in moderation people! Some people want to overcomplicate this simple few words and sell you all sorts of shit in terms of products and ideas.
bruh that's cool! i do Triathlon too but tbh i stopped playing sc2 before i started doing tris. considering you said race that takes over 8 hours to complete i'm guessing you do Ironman distance?
i just stepped up to Olympic this season after doing a bunch of sprints over the last couple years. will stay at olympic distance for the upcoming season and then consider doing a half.
on-topic: i don't think the discussion of whether it's specifically high blood pressure that can be an issue with excessive gaming really matters that much. i think we can all agree that sitting in front of a computer and staring into it for many hours on end every day, little excercise, a diet heavy on saturated fats, refined sugar, salt and caffeine and possibly alcohol and/or nicotine isn't healthy, and it's a good idea to make changes accordingly. that doesn't mean "don't play video games", i don't think anyone would take me seriously anyway if i said that on this forum with my postcount 
but try and eat a lot of plant-based foods, reduce meat and dairy consumption, get up and move aorund regularly, stick to a regular sleep schedule... you don't have to become a vegan triathlete or anything (although i do recommend it) just to be healthier and feel better.
i know i've only been feeling better and better, more energetic, more productive (at work and without), more confident, the more i've adopted those simple ideas into my lifestyle. i used to work a 30hr job that was quite simple and i felt very tired a lot of the time when i started working there. then i started making all these changes. now i work a much more complex (and better paid) 45-50ish hr job and i feel a lot more energetic and positive than i had in the past
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Northern Ireland24438 Posts
Play, do what you want. If you’re getting warning signs that it’s negatively impacting your health, don’t do it.
Some people can tolerate the stress and adrenaline spikes of playing competitively, some have less tolerance.
I had two main hobbies leading into and during my early 20s, playing a lot of guitar and playing a lot of Starcraft. My right elbow is fucked, I can’t throw a ball at any kind of pace without immediate elbow pain after one throw, I get finger pains very quickly, a lot of wrist pains and had carpal tunnel symptoms in both wrists
My short term typing speed dropped by 30 words a minute (minute long bursts nothing sustained) over time due to all these issues, which also curtailed me doing work in transcription that I’d previously done.
It’s a great and beautiful game, if your body is telling you it’s not enjoying the experience, listen to it.
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On December 14 2019 09:30 Khabra wrote:Trumpeters die young of emphysema, accountatns are hunted by mafia and sc2 players suffer high blood pressure... You don't love it, you don't do it
Using that logic, why do we bother going to the hospital/ take care of our health? Everyone dies you know... comes with the condition of living. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
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Russian Federation385 Posts
When I played SC2 the hardest (was reaching mid masters in 2012), I noticed feeling exhausted, constant headache, eye pain after games. I quickly realized it does really bad to my health so downgraded my account to high-diamond in order to play with little tension. Now I'm in mid diamond "smurfing" and not getting tired, even though I beat low-masters 50/50 (actual MMR 4500). The moral is play games for fun, not hardcore.
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On December 14 2019 22:09 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 07:52 L_Master wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2019 06:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 04:34 L_Master wrote:On December 13 2019 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming. Except being sedentary, which is a huge risk factor. You can get up and move around between games, so it's technically exclusive of gaming...but generally isn't. There has no been no real conclusive evidence that being sedentary isolated from all other factors increases the risk to high blood pressure, in the same way that a lack of excercise has been. It's not the playing of games that gives you high blood pressure. And yes, you can get up and move in between games. Don't you need to goto the toilet? I should have caveated by statement a little more stating instead: "which is appearing more and more like a huge risk factor", but my inclination is to take major exception to this statement. Are you suggesting your so up to date on every prominent medical/scientific journal that you know for certain no such studies exist. I believe there are informed people out there that read a decent amount of literature, but your statement is exceedingly confident, even by such standards. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30763169https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27702747https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30111495https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27208318https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2091327/sedentary-time-its-association-risk-disease-incidence-mortality-hospitalization-adultsThis is a stater pack, there are several dozen other studies all showing these impacts. Some are clinical trials/experimental type studies, some are cohort studies, some are cross sectional studies...and vast majority of them are finding the impact that longer periods of sedentary behavior have, irrespective of exercise or other factors. For you to say "there has been no real conclusive evidence" is just a massive stretch to me. There is never "conclusive" evidence in epidemiology anyways. Just trends, correlations, etc. Is this pattern as established as the beneficial link between exercise and diabetes or BP? No. Of course not. We've only been suspecting and investigating the sitting link aggressively over perhaps the last decade. What evidence we are getting is generally pointing a pretty consistent picture though. You randomly post links hoping that supports you? Why do this? There is no excuse for posting random links that don't even support what you wrote. You seem unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term, not a catch all term for heart disease. None of those links mention high blood pressure or their medical terms. Various cardiovascular diesease yes, but they are not the same thing as high blood pressure, though hypertension does increase risk of cardiovascular disease. According to known medical research, there is nothing linking being sedentary to hypertension. A sedentary lifestyle is unhealthy and everyone can benefit to changing to a more active and healthy lifestyle. However being sedentary is not one of the risk factors for high blood pressure. There simply is no known link to being sedentary and hypertension. I know this is the internets, but there is utterly no reason to give bad medical advice.
On the one hand, you're absolutely correct. None of the stuff I posted dealt with high BP specifically. It dealt with blood sugar response, other cardiac issues, and all cause mortality.
On the other hand, no you didnt think I was unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term. It's pretty clear I hadn't read your post tightly enough to realize that you wanted a specific hypertension discussion and not general cardiac health and all cause mortality. My mistake for skimming.
This is, following the discussion of the thread, a discussion of health as it relates to gaming. It's not a nuanced scientific discussion of sitting/gaming and high BP. It's a discussion of "What can be done to not have your health be damaged from lots of gaming."
If you believe that the statement "sitting for long period is unhealthy, you should get up and move and around on a consistent basis" is poor advice, I'm not really sure what to say.
If you're objecting to that statement as "you should get up and move around to reduce high BP"....okay, yes. You are correct that isnt supported. Doesnt make the advice bad though.
You're style definitely rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps you intend this. Comes off as very arrogant, very "I'm right, this guy is clueless and I need to show this idiot just how clueless he is".
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On December 14 2019 10:57 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game? I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark.
Everyone is different. As someone with a clinical anxiety disorder many everyday situations that for most people do not cause anxiety cause me anxiety. In school, I would shake and have a racing heart just from having to same my name for attendance. I fortunately don't get this from gaming, but it does not surprise me that some people do. Brains are complicated. Even though our mind understands these are not threatening situations, our brain can perceive them that way.
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Northern Ireland24438 Posts
On December 16 2019 02:03 greenturtle23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 10:57 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game? I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark. Everyone is different. As someone with a clinical anxiety disorder many everyday situations that for most people do not cause anxiety cause me anxiety. In school, I would shake and have a racing heart just from having to same my name for attendance. I fortunately don't get this from gaming, but it does not surprise me that some people do. Brains are complicated. Even though our mind understands these are not threatening situations, our brain can perceive them that way.
Aye. I’ve never had anxiety for big exams, or performing on stage or whatever that cause others a lot of stress, but plenty of mundane stuff freaks me out.
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On December 16 2019 03:25 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 02:03 greenturtle23 wrote:On December 14 2019 10:57 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game? I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark. Everyone is different. As someone with a clinical anxiety disorder many everyday situations that for most people do not cause anxiety cause me anxiety. In school, I would shake and have a racing heart just from having to same my name for attendance. I fortunately don't get this from gaming, but it does not surprise me that some people do. Brains are complicated. Even though our mind understands these are not threatening situations, our brain can perceive them that way. Aye. I’ve never had anxiety for big exams, or performing on stage or whatever that cause others a lot of stress, but plenty of mundane stuff freaks me out.
Yea, it's just interesting to hear about all these huge HR responses. I've gotten spooked out on the trail recovering between intervals, thinking I had run into a mountain lion...and yea my HR spiked up from 80 to about 130bpm, but that was a literal life and death situation and I was already being physically active.
Fascinating that a decent number of people seem to have responses on par with, or beyond, that for non life threatening situations. I haven't heard that from any of my friends, but like anything could be a curve and I'm more of a low responder to stress whereas others are higher responders (although, mentally and how my body felt I can't imagine being more stressed/scared than right then)
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Austria11528 Posts
On December 16 2019 04:02 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 03:25 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 16 2019 02:03 greenturtle23 wrote:On December 14 2019 10:57 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game? I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark. Everyone is different. As someone with a clinical anxiety disorder many everyday situations that for most people do not cause anxiety cause me anxiety. In school, I would shake and have a racing heart just from having to same my name for attendance. I fortunately don't get this from gaming, but it does not surprise me that some people do. Brains are complicated. Even though our mind understands these are not threatening situations, our brain can perceive them that way. Aye. I’ve never had anxiety for big exams, or performing on stage or whatever that cause others a lot of stress, but plenty of mundane stuff freaks me out. Yea, it's just interesting to hear about all these huge HR responses. I've gotten spooked out on the trail recovering between intervals, thinking I had run into a mountain lion...and yea my HR spiked up from 80 to about 130bpm, but that was a literal life and death situation and I was already being physically active. Fascinating that a decent number of people seem to have responses on par with, or beyond, that for non life threatening situations. I haven't heard that from any of my friends, but like anything could be a curve and I'm more of a low responder to stress whereas others are higher responders (although, mentally and how my body felt I can't imagine being more stressed/scared than right then)
heart rate isn't instant. the heart needs a bit of time to adjust speed. your emotional response is much faster than that. though considering you seem to be working out using heartrate zones you should be aware of that.
regarding anxiety: i had kind of a thing with a girl who suffered from pretty severe social anxiety. she would get really stressed out in basically all social situations, and would sometimes have really weird reactions due to that. story she finds funny now and i find funny and i invite everyone to laugh about, even though the condition behind it isn't funny: on our first date we went for a nice walk that wasn't so nice anymore when it started raining hard and since we were hungry anyway, we fled into an Italian restaurant. she was so overwhelmed by a stranger in a strange country (she's an immigrant) asking her what she wants to order while this guy she basically doesn't know yet either (remember, first date) is sitting next to her, that she ended up ordering a big glass of wine and nutella pancakes with strawberries. i ordered a pizza. this tiny girl turned very giggly as she was drinking a quarter of a litre of wine and eating what's basically just sugar with more sugar in the middle of the day. anyway, i digress.
she was stressed out in EVERY social interaction. even when it was just me and her in her flat. we developed an extremely intimate relationship, and she did manage to ease up a bit, but still not all the way. when i showed up to her house, i had to ring the doorbell, walk up to her flat, and knock on her flat door for her to open it and immediately shut it behind me. she would not open it and wait for me to come up, cause a neighbour could be walking by or whatever. she liked spending time with me but it also cost her a lot of energy and eventually, she would kinda (politely) throw me out the house while apologising a million times. gotta be a tough life.
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On December 16 2019 04:02 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 03:25 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 16 2019 02:03 greenturtle23 wrote:On December 14 2019 10:57 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game? I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark. Everyone is different. As someone with a clinical anxiety disorder many everyday situations that for most people do not cause anxiety cause me anxiety. In school, I would shake and have a racing heart just from having to same my name for attendance. I fortunately don't get this from gaming, but it does not surprise me that some people do. Brains are complicated. Even though our mind understands these are not threatening situations, our brain can perceive them that way. Aye. I’ve never had anxiety for big exams, or performing on stage or whatever that cause others a lot of stress, but plenty of mundane stuff freaks me out. Yea, it's just interesting to hear about all these huge HR responses. I've gotten spooked out on the trail recovering between intervals, thinking I had run into a mountain lion...and yea my HR spiked up from 80 to about 130bpm, but that was a literal life and death situation and I was already being physically active. Fascinating that a decent number of people seem to have responses on par with, or beyond, that for non life threatening situations. I haven't heard that from any of my friends, but like anything could be a curve and I'm more of a low responder to stress whereas others are higher responders (although, mentally and how my body felt I can't imagine being more stressed/scared than right then)
Yup that doesn't surprise me too much that none of your friends have this response. Those with anxiety are in general less likely to make friends. For my own situation the few times The few rare times I have actually been in life threatening situations, I wasn't anxious per se. I was hyper focused and alert, my heart was fast, but I didn't feel actually anxious. I think of the normal anxiousness as the brain saying "there is something wrong with this situation, leave before something bad happens". The actual life threatening situations are more like "you are in the shit now, let's focus and deal with it."
Typing this is causing me a high HR response, but not 130 high. Would guess maybe 20 over my baseline? Not fun but not too awful . Thinking about it later will probably cause a higher one. Part of the reason I usually just lurk and not post.
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Northern Ireland24438 Posts
Anxiety/stress as a response isn’t purely a bump in one’s heart rate there’s a whole slew of other components to it, although that’s certainly part of it too.
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On December 16 2019 04:53 greenturtle23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 04:02 L_Master wrote:On December 16 2019 03:25 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 16 2019 02:03 greenturtle23 wrote:On December 14 2019 10:57 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game? I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark. Everyone is different. As someone with a clinical anxiety disorder many everyday situations that for most people do not cause anxiety cause me anxiety. In school, I would shake and have a racing heart just from having to same my name for attendance. I fortunately don't get this from gaming, but it does not surprise me that some people do. Brains are complicated. Even though our mind understands these are not threatening situations, our brain can perceive them that way. Aye. I’ve never had anxiety for big exams, or performing on stage or whatever that cause others a lot of stress, but plenty of mundane stuff freaks me out. Yea, it's just interesting to hear about all these huge HR responses. I've gotten spooked out on the trail recovering between intervals, thinking I had run into a mountain lion...and yea my HR spiked up from 80 to about 130bpm, but that was a literal life and death situation and I was already being physically active. Fascinating that a decent number of people seem to have responses on par with, or beyond, that for non life threatening situations. I haven't heard that from any of my friends, but like anything could be a curve and I'm more of a low responder to stress whereas others are higher responders (although, mentally and how my body felt I can't imagine being more stressed/scared than right then) Yup that doesn't surprise me too much that none of your friends have this response. Those with anxiety are in general less likely to make friends. For my own situation the few times The few rare times I have actually been in life threatening situations, I wasn't anxious per se. I was hyper focused and alert, my heart was fast, but I didn't feel actually anxious. I think of the normal anxiousness as the brain saying "there is something wrong with this situation, leave before something bad happens". The actual life threatening situations are more like "you are in the shit now, let's focus and deal with it." Typing this is causing me a high HR response, but not 130 high. Would guess maybe 20 over my baseline? Not fun but not too awful . Thinking about it later will probably cause a higher one. Part of the reason I usually just lurk and not post.
Yea, I dealt with anxiety quite bad starting in around late 2017 after a little nighttime panic attack that I took as a health scare and sent me down a path to some really bad anxiety where I was constantly worried about the next health problem or thing that was going to go wrong. I also hated while I felt while anxious: keyed up, stressed, usually a sensation or tension in my chest...just feeling like I needed to.....sprint. I hated that feeling enough that I got to the point where I was getting anxious about being anxious. The anxiety itself actually manifested itself as unbelievably varied constellation of symptoms, such that whenever I thought I was getting a handle on one thing, another new "symptom" would appear and freak me the fuck out.
Eventually, I got the point where I said enough is enough I can't stand how it feels being like that, and walked myself back from that mess over the period of about 3-4 months (my sleep still has some affect, it's not 100% recovered yet). I actually ended up writing a fairly lengthy blog on how that all went down.
That 20bpm rise you talk about is familiar. When I had my worst anxiety moments I would usually jump up between 20-30bpm what I would expect to be completely at rest and at ease. It was the 100bpm rises that people are talking about that was shocking to me.
On December 16 2019 06:20 Wombat_NI wrote:
Anxiety/stress as a response isn’t purely a bump in one’s heart rate there’s a whole slew of other components to it, although that’s certainly part of it too.
Absolutely. I think I'd be inclined to say that there is almost nothing that anxiety cannot do. It's truly incredible.
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On December 16 2019 00:53 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 22:09 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On December 14 2019 07:52 L_Master wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2019 06:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 04:34 L_Master wrote:On December 13 2019 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming. Except being sedentary, which is a huge risk factor. You can get up and move around between games, so it's technically exclusive of gaming...but generally isn't. There has no been no real conclusive evidence that being sedentary isolated from all other factors increases the risk to high blood pressure, in the same way that a lack of excercise has been. It's not the playing of games that gives you high blood pressure. And yes, you can get up and move in between games. Don't you need to goto the toilet? I should have caveated by statement a little more stating instead: "which is appearing more and more like a huge risk factor", but my inclination is to take major exception to this statement. Are you suggesting your so up to date on every prominent medical/scientific journal that you know for certain no such studies exist. I believe there are informed people out there that read a decent amount of literature, but your statement is exceedingly confident, even by such standards. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30763169https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27702747https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30111495https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27208318https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2091327/sedentary-time-its-association-risk-disease-incidence-mortality-hospitalization-adultsThis is a stater pack, there are several dozen other studies all showing these impacts. Some are clinical trials/experimental type studies, some are cohort studies, some are cross sectional studies...and vast majority of them are finding the impact that longer periods of sedentary behavior have, irrespective of exercise or other factors. For you to say "there has been no real conclusive evidence" is just a massive stretch to me. There is never "conclusive" evidence in epidemiology anyways. Just trends, correlations, etc. Is this pattern as established as the beneficial link between exercise and diabetes or BP? No. Of course not. We've only been suspecting and investigating the sitting link aggressively over perhaps the last decade. What evidence we are getting is generally pointing a pretty consistent picture though. You randomly post links hoping that supports you? Why do this? There is no excuse for posting random links that don't even support what you wrote. You seem unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term, not a catch all term for heart disease. None of those links mention high blood pressure or their medical terms. Various cardiovascular diesease yes, but they are not the same thing as high blood pressure, though hypertension does increase risk of cardiovascular disease. According to known medical research, there is nothing linking being sedentary to hypertension. A sedentary lifestyle is unhealthy and everyone can benefit to changing to a more active and healthy lifestyle. However being sedentary is not one of the risk factors for high blood pressure. There simply is no known link to being sedentary and hypertension. I know this is the internets, but there is utterly no reason to give bad medical advice. On the one hand, you're absolutely correct. None of the stuff I posted dealt with high BP specifically. It dealt with blood sugar response, other cardiac issues, and all cause mortality. On the other hand, no you didnt think I was unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term. It's pretty clear I hadn't read your post tightly enough to realize that you wanted a specific hypertension discussion and not general cardiac health and all cause mortality. My mistake for skimming. This is, following the discussion of the thread, a discussion of health as it relates to gaming. It's not a nuanced scientific discussion of sitting/gaming and high BP. It's a discussion of "What can be done to not have your health be damaged from lots of gaming." If you believe that the statement "sitting for long period is unhealthy, you should get up and move and around on a consistent basis" is poor advice, I'm not really sure what to say. If you're objecting to that statement as "you should get up and move around to reduce high BP"....okay, yes. You are correct that isnt supported. Doesnt make the advice bad though. You're style definitely rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps you intend this. Comes off as very arrogant, very "I'm right, this guy is clueless and I need to show this idiot just how clueless he is". It's not really my fault that you don't know the difference between high blood pressure and heart disease.
It's also not my fault that you went ahead and posted a bunch of links that you said proved you right, but actually did not, bluffing that I will not understand them just on the basis that you are intimidated by medical terms.
But I wasn't expecting an apology from you anyways.
There are plenty of free medical advice on the internet, or from professionals, there is no excuse for posting bad or untruthful medical advice.
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On December 16 2019 08:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 00:53 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 22:09 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On December 14 2019 07:52 L_Master wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 14 2019 06:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2019 04:34 L_Master wrote:On December 13 2019 23:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What has this got to do with esports? If your face is bright red after playing a 40 minute game, it's more likely that any physical extertion would make you bright red.
There are a lot of causes of high blood pressure, but gaming is actually not one of them. Though the stereotype lifestyle might be. Poor diet, lack of excercise, caffeine, smoking, lack of sleep, overweight are all factors that raises the risk of high blood pressure and all of them are exclusive of gaming. Except being sedentary, which is a huge risk factor. You can get up and move around between games, so it's technically exclusive of gaming...but generally isn't. There has no been no real conclusive evidence that being sedentary isolated from all other factors increases the risk to high blood pressure, in the same way that a lack of excercise has been. It's not the playing of games that gives you high blood pressure. And yes, you can get up and move in between games. Don't you need to goto the toilet? I should have caveated by statement a little more stating instead: "which is appearing more and more like a huge risk factor", but my inclination is to take major exception to this statement. Are you suggesting your so up to date on every prominent medical/scientific journal that you know for certain no such studies exist. I believe there are informed people out there that read a decent amount of literature, but your statement is exceedingly confident, even by such standards. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30763169https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27702747https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30111495https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27208318https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2091327/sedentary-time-its-association-risk-disease-incidence-mortality-hospitalization-adultsThis is a stater pack, there are several dozen other studies all showing these impacts. Some are clinical trials/experimental type studies, some are cohort studies, some are cross sectional studies...and vast majority of them are finding the impact that longer periods of sedentary behavior have, irrespective of exercise or other factors. For you to say "there has been no real conclusive evidence" is just a massive stretch to me. There is never "conclusive" evidence in epidemiology anyways. Just trends, correlations, etc. Is this pattern as established as the beneficial link between exercise and diabetes or BP? No. Of course not. We've only been suspecting and investigating the sitting link aggressively over perhaps the last decade. What evidence we are getting is generally pointing a pretty consistent picture though. You randomly post links hoping that supports you? Why do this? There is no excuse for posting random links that don't even support what you wrote. You seem unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term, not a catch all term for heart disease. None of those links mention high blood pressure or their medical terms. Various cardiovascular diesease yes, but they are not the same thing as high blood pressure, though hypertension does increase risk of cardiovascular disease. According to known medical research, there is nothing linking being sedentary to hypertension. A sedentary lifestyle is unhealthy and everyone can benefit to changing to a more active and healthy lifestyle. However being sedentary is not one of the risk factors for high blood pressure. There simply is no known link to being sedentary and hypertension. I know this is the internets, but there is utterly no reason to give bad medical advice. On the one hand, you're absolutely correct. None of the stuff I posted dealt with high BP specifically. It dealt with blood sugar response, other cardiac issues, and all cause mortality. On the other hand, no you didnt think I was unaware that hypertension is a specific medical term. It's pretty clear I hadn't read your post tightly enough to realize that you wanted a specific hypertension discussion and not general cardiac health and all cause mortality. My mistake for skimming. This is, following the discussion of the thread, a discussion of health as it relates to gaming. It's not a nuanced scientific discussion of sitting/gaming and high BP. It's a discussion of "What can be done to not have your health be damaged from lots of gaming." If you believe that the statement "sitting for long period is unhealthy, you should get up and move and around on a consistent basis" is poor advice, I'm not really sure what to say. If you're objecting to that statement as "you should get up and move around to reduce high BP"....okay, yes. You are correct that isnt supported. Doesnt make the advice bad though. You're style definitely rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps you intend this. Comes off as very arrogant, very "I'm right, this guy is clueless and I need to show this idiot just how clueless he is". It's not really my fault that you don't know the difference between high blood pressure and heart disease. It's also not my fault that you went ahead and posted a bunch of links that you said proved you right, but actually did not, bluffing that I will not understand them just on the basis that you are intimidated by medical terms. But I wasn't expecting an apology from you anyways. There are plenty of free medical advice on the internet, or from professionals, there is no excuse for posting bad or untruthful medical advice.
Did I correct myself and say I failed to read what you wrote carefully and responded with information irrelevant to your point? Yes. Did I say my mistake for skimming and not reading you carefully? Yes.
I hadn't read your post tightly enough to realize that you wanted a specific hypertension discussion and not general cardiac health and all cause mortality. My mistake for skimming.
If that's not someone saying "Hey dude, my bad". I don't know what is.
It's also not my fault that you went ahead and posted a bunch of links that you said proved you right, but actually did not, bluffing that I will not understand them just on the basis that you are intimidated by medical terms.
Do you, honestly, think that is what I was doing? You think I'm just lying when I said above "Hey dude, I skimmed your post and responded thinking you were referring to health in general, not specifically hypertension".
I posted links related to blood sugar response, diabetes, and all cause mortality not because I was bluffing and didn't think you were going to fail to understand them...but because I thought you had made a different statement than you had. People misread things.
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Northern Ireland24438 Posts
On December 16 2019 07:22 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 04:53 greenturtle23 wrote:On December 16 2019 04:02 L_Master wrote:On December 16 2019 03:25 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 16 2019 02:03 greenturtle23 wrote:On December 14 2019 10:57 L_Master wrote:On December 14 2019 10:25 Amui wrote:
High intensity/stress situations(not limited to SC2) can definitely spike your heartrate/blood pressure. Can be anything from SC2 to an interview to travelling. It's the body's way of trying to get you ready for whatever could happen, even if you aren't physically in danger.
It's one of the reasons ladder anxiety can be so bad. I know when I used to play, if I came off an intense 20-30 minute game my hands would be shaking and I would be taking shallow quick breaths. It is not necessarily related to overall health, as it's a stress response as opposed to a condition. If you play multiple games every day and acclimatize the body to it though, you can definitely minimize the response.
That's incredible how much stress/anxiety you guys talk about. If it was world stage in front of 50k for a title it would click in my head...but a meaningless ladder game? I've had a touch of shakiness and been "keyed up" after an occasional really important tournament game, but nothing like what you describe. That sounds on par with like getting roared out by a mountain lion out of the dark. Everyone is different. As someone with a clinical anxiety disorder many everyday situations that for most people do not cause anxiety cause me anxiety. In school, I would shake and have a racing heart just from having to same my name for attendance. I fortunately don't get this from gaming, but it does not surprise me that some people do. Brains are complicated. Even though our mind understands these are not threatening situations, our brain can perceive them that way. Aye. I’ve never had anxiety for big exams, or performing on stage or whatever that cause others a lot of stress, but plenty of mundane stuff freaks me out. Yea, it's just interesting to hear about all these huge HR responses. I've gotten spooked out on the trail recovering between intervals, thinking I had run into a mountain lion...and yea my HR spiked up from 80 to about 130bpm, but that was a literal life and death situation and I was already being physically active. Fascinating that a decent number of people seem to have responses on par with, or beyond, that for non life threatening situations. I haven't heard that from any of my friends, but like anything could be a curve and I'm more of a low responder to stress whereas others are higher responders (although, mentally and how my body felt I can't imagine being more stressed/scared than right then) Yup that doesn't surprise me too much that none of your friends have this response. Those with anxiety are in general less likely to make friends. For my own situation the few times The few rare times I have actually been in life threatening situations, I wasn't anxious per se. I was hyper focused and alert, my heart was fast, but I didn't feel actually anxious. I think of the normal anxiousness as the brain saying "there is something wrong with this situation, leave before something bad happens". The actual life threatening situations are more like "you are in the shit now, let's focus and deal with it." Typing this is causing me a high HR response, but not 130 high. Would guess maybe 20 over my baseline? Not fun but not too awful . Thinking about it later will probably cause a higher one. Part of the reason I usually just lurk and not post. Yea, I dealt with anxiety quite bad starting in around late 2017 after a little nighttime panic attack that I took as a health scare and sent me down a path to some really bad anxiety where I was constantly worried about the next health problem or thing that was going to go wrong. I also hated while I felt while anxious: keyed up, stressed, usually a sensation or tension in my chest...just feeling like I needed to.....sprint. I hated that feeling enough that I got to the point where I was getting anxious about being anxious. The anxiety itself actually manifested itself as unbelievably varied constellation of symptoms, such that whenever I thought I was getting a handle on one thing, another new "symptom" would appear and freak me the fuck out. Eventually, I got the point where I said enough is enough I can't stand how it feels being like that, and walked myself back from that mess over the period of about 3-4 months (my sleep still has some affect, it's not 100% recovered yet). I actually ended up writing a fairly lengthy blog on how that all went down. That 20bpm rise you talk about is familiar. When I had my worst anxiety moments I would usually jump up between 20-30bpm what I would expect to be completely at rest and at ease. It was the 100bpm rises that people are talking about that was shocking to me. Show nested quote +On December 16 2019 06:20 Wombat_NI wrote:
Anxiety/stress as a response isn’t purely a bump in one’s heart rate there’s a whole slew of other components to it, although that’s certainly part of it too. Absolutely. I think I'd be inclined to say that there is almost nothing that anxiety cannot do. It's truly incredible.
Aye sadly for many people, myself included.
I quit playing Starcraft due to anxiety and stress issues, not I might add caused by StarCraft itself but for various other reasons, but that destroyed the fun of ladder.
Was never amazing but, decent enough at the game. Enjoyed learning it and stubbornly trying to play passive macro builds every game and making them work.
Had one day laddering where the cognitive fog that comes with anxiety (and is rather underplayed as a symptom) just descended to such a ridiculous degree that I tried to forge expand against a Terran (actually a decent build against one rax gasless in WoL, was a build I stole from Oz but this game wasn’t going for that!) forgot warpgate in one game, forgot my first pylon in another game. The first pylon I mean Jesus.
Never laddered since outside of a drunken evening playing Terran and doing stupid cheeses every game, which was pretty fun.
It’s an odd thing indeed. There’s an evolutionary reason we have anxiety as a mechanism, but it’s meant to be when we spot a tiger prowling around! Somehow it afflicts people with even the most mundane of situations.
On a brighter note things have sort of settled and I’m looking forward to getting stomped on ladder again sometime soon!
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EPT
