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Official response from Mkers: https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27509623 The resolution: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/553531-mkers-payment-withhold-dispute?page=11#205 Mkers’ response to the resolution: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/553531-mkers-payment-withhold-dispute?page=11#216 | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25014 Posts
On December 08 2019 10:12 carlba wrote: "if". Good one. So you are just talking out of your ass The fuck are you talking about? Fuck off. My posts were preceded with ‘if Nerchio’s account is accurate’ and anything I said from there was with that important caveat in mind. Your, rather short posting history basically equates to (totally not damage control) that Nerchio is bad and didn’t deserve his money. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On December 08 2019 07:41 Wombat_NI wrote: How do you have a union in a multinational industry that crosses many different borders and different legal and employment codes? As someone who is a strong advocate of unionisation I don’t see how this is workable at all Ultimately who’s going to be the arbiter here anyway? Blizzard? How is that functionally any different from me suggesting Blizzard should punish teams who don’t honour their contracts to players? I would be curious to know how sports league do it, I know in NA some (all?) big sports league have a player union, but it is a traditionnaly a mess to negociate both with the league and each team manager. Honestly I think "our" best bet is some kind of public or etatic juristiction of esport. For exemple if as a team you needed to ask a the status of "esport organisation in X game" to the EU which would give you a specific legal existence and come with some specific amount of rules to follow and if you didn't you would lose you autorisation to compete in tournament in the EU. (or got a fine or a suspension or whatever) Of course that mean tournaments would also need to be under that governing body (and maybe the player too?) It's not really an idea for this century but it's the best idea that pop into my head. (of course you can start with that and end up with another IOC) | ||
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carlba
4 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7288 Posts
On December 08 2019 10:29 carlba wrote: "If that contract was fulfilled by Nerchio, he deserves the money". What a wise post. This sort of shit has happened enough that it's real easy to believe Nerchio. Plenty of shitbag companies run by scumbags don't like to pay their players. Hope you get the money you're owed Nerchio! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25014 Posts
On December 08 2019 10:28 Nakajin wrote: I would be curious to know how sports league do it, I know in NA some (all?) big sports league have a player union, but it is a traditionnaly a mess to negociate both with the league and each team manager. Honestly I think "our" best bet is some kind of public or etatic juristiction of esport. For exemple if as a team you needed to ask a the status of "esport organisation in X game" to the EU which would give you a specific legal existence and come with some specific amount of rules to follow and if you didn't you would lose you autorisation to compete in tournament in the EU. (or got a fine or a suspension or whatever) Of course that mean tournaments would also need to be under that governing body (and maybe the player too?) It's not really an idea for this century but it's the best idea that pop into my head. (of course you can start with that and end up with another IOC) Well as real world sport examples go (sadly) we’ve had a fair few of English football teams get docked points in their respective leagues for not paying wages to staff (not just players but administrative staff too) | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25014 Posts
On December 08 2019 10:29 carlba wrote: "If that contract was fulfilled by Nerchio, he deserves the money". What a wise post. Well I hate to toot my own horn but it really is. This is what contracts are. As to the wisdom of giving him said contract it’s another thing, but if you do so you have to honour it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25014 Posts
Makes you think really | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5501 Posts
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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8230 Posts
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Noa Greenini
265 Posts
On December 07 2019 23:15 carlosB. wrote: Smart move by Nerchio; Sign for a team > ??? > "Where is ma money!?". Who are you? I wonder who Carlos is... HMMMMM..... Scammers, frauds and cheaters; Mkers. I hope they crash and burn and that their kind are never able to be involved with any e-sport in the future. If only hopes could come true. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
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BabelFish1
186 Posts
But if this is true, then I hope someone offers him cheap litigation to settle any debts owed if things don't get resolved. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria818 Posts
On December 08 2019 15:34 -Kyo- wrote: 17 hours this post has been up and Nerchio hasn't provided any proof. Imo for a thread that could damage a team's reputation there needs to be some collaboration here. Either directly to the admins, or some other pro player providing proof. A person's word is one thing, but facts and evidence are indisputable. What proof do you expect? He can't show you his contract because it's confidential probably. He can't show you his bank account because... it's private. The only thing he can show you is communication but he probably expects some good will from Mkers, so he doesn't post it yet. | ||
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mythikdawn
United States25 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 08 2019 16:24 SC-Shield wrote: The only thing he can show you is communication but he probably expects some good will from Mkers, so he doesn't post it yet. This is what I said would be reasonably expected. Again, I think he is being truthful, but you simply cannot post something like this and use community leverage to your advantage without posting some form of evidence, it's rather unfair. Just imagine if, for whatever reason, Nercho was not being fully truthful here. That's the sort of thing you should think about before you take any side. On December 08 2019 16:39 mythikdawn wrote: To all the people asking Nerchio to provide proof, why would he even make a post like this if he was bullshitting? In eSports and especially in SC2, it seems like you'd always want to be on your team's good side, and doing something like this would ruin him if it didn't have some truth to it. Because it has happened in other communities before, and it's an organization that has sponsorship, players, and staff at risk. If you're willing to put those things on blast, and at risk of being dissolved, the least you could do is put a chat log where you don't get any response from said manager. Just to be clear, TL is a tight nit community - so I think we can all take Nerchio as being truthful here. That said, it does not absolve him of providing any evidence as he is attempting to use the community to pressure Mkers - or to damage their org given their current standstill over his contract/payments. | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
On December 08 2019 17:54 -Kyo- wrote: This is what I said would be reasonably expected. Again, I think he is being truthful, but you simply cannot post something like this and use community leverage to your advantage without posting some form of evidence, it's rather unfair. Just imagine if, for whatever reason, Nercho was not being fully truthful here. That's the sort of thing you should think about before you take any side. Because it has happened in other communities before, and it's an organization that has sponsorship, players, and staff at risk. If you're willing to put those things on blast, and at risk of being dissolved, the least you could do is put a chat log where you don't get any response from said manager. Just to be clear, TL is a tight nit community - so I think we can all take Nerchio as being truthful here. That said, it does not absolve him of providing any evidence as he is attempting to use the community to pressure Mkers - or to damage their org given their current standstill over his contract/payments. MKers can, and probably should have given a statement to clarify the situation from their side - they have not done so. Then again, it is weekend, so we might as well keep sharpening the pitchforks. | ||
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SC2Duderino
Austria13 Posts
It is aweful to read that you have been treated this way. I hope that your post reaches the many influential people who are part of the TL community to change things for the better and help you. Organizations who work with players should be both forthcoming and supportive of the people they sponsor. They are bound by a professional standard expected from any employer, whether in e-sports or elsewhere. SC2 players should not have to run after their money, they should be playing the game that brings us so much joy all around the world. If Mkers claims a different version of events, it should be reaching out to you in order to clarify the situation. This is the minimum they could do for you and anyone else working for them. Please keep this thread alive, in hope that Nerchio will receive a reply from Mkers and be able to resolve his claims in a productive way. The Dude | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria818 Posts
On December 08 2019 17:54 -Kyo- wrote: This is what I said would be reasonably expected. Again, I think he is being truthful, but you simply cannot post something like this and use community leverage to your advantage without posting some form of evidence, it's rather unfair. Just imagine if, for whatever reason, Nercho was not being fully truthful here. That's the sort of thing you should think about before you take any side. Even chat log without response could be faked. It's much better to hear from Mkers. | ||
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