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Northern Ireland26232 Posts
On December 08 2019 10:12 carlba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2019 09:35 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2019 09:32 carlba wrote:On December 08 2019 01:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 07 2019 23:15 carlosB. wrote:On December 07 2019 23:11 Branch.AUT wrote:On December 07 2019 22:53 carlosB. wrote:
Did someone notice that he actually played? That he represented a Team and/or Sponsor? To be honest, last time i have heard somethig of Nerchio was during the Roach/Bane Allin times during HotS. What does he need a team for? Pretty sure all he does for the team is putting a couple of letters in front of his nick. Has Nerchio been streaming? Oh no wait, cant make those allins public
But make sure to support your favorite player, especially after he wishes death on someone Just registered to post this. Gee I wonder who you might be. Situation as described by nerchio seems pretty clear, team owes him money, which if contractually agreed upon should be possible to get. Nerchio I hope you have legal counselling in this case, I think it would would help you acquire your money in the end. Travel expanses might be tricky if the team didn't agree to it prior to the tournament, but the salary seems like a clear cut thing. Smart move by Nerchio; Sign for a team > ??? > "Where is ma money!?". Who are you? Utterly fucking irrelevant, go Google ‘contract’ before you spout even more bollocks on your third post. Hey asshole. post that contract. How do you know if Nerchio is telling the truth? Was Nerchio fulfilling that contract? Literally said in my first post on the matter ‘if Nerchio’s version of events is accurate’ but nice try. The wisdom of Mkers throwing money at him or not isn’t the issue, it’s if they aren’t honouring their agreed obligations. "if". Good one. So you are just talking out of your ass
The fuck are you talking about? Fuck off.
My posts were preceded with ‘if Nerchio’s account is accurate’ and anything I said from there was with that important caveat in mind.
Your, rather short posting history basically equates to (totally not damage control) that Nerchio is bad and didn’t deserve his money.
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Canada8989 Posts
On December 08 2019 07:41 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2019 07:28 Boggyb wrote:On December 08 2019 03:32 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2019 03:22 Boggyb wrote:On December 08 2019 01:17 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s not like Nerchio is some naive kid here either who didn’t sign formal contracts or whatever. Although naive kids also shouldn’t be taken advantage of.
If Nerchio’s version of events is at all accurate, Mkers players should be barred from WCS competition until he gets his money. This is literally the dumbest possible solution and you should be ashamed to suggest it. You want to punish players for something they had no involvement in? What do you propose? Pay your players or you don’t get to use a platform like WCS to expose your brand until you settle your debts. It’s how plenty of ‘real’ sports operate, never mind wider business in general. I’d be fine with Mkers players participating in these tournaments but absolutely not under the Mkers brand unless this is resolved: What's there to propose? This is a contract dispute between 2 private parties. What the players should do is form an esports union to which players pay dues so that players have someone with legal knowledge and financial power on their side when they have financial disputes with teams or what not. It could extend beyond Starcraft 2 into any and every esport. How do you have a union in a multinational industry that crosses many different borders and different legal and employment codes? As someone who is a strong advocate of unionisation I don’t see how this is workable at all Ultimately who’s going to be the arbiter here anyway? Blizzard? How is that functionally any different from me suggesting Blizzard should punish teams who don’t honour their contracts to players?
I would be curious to know how sports league do it, I know in NA some (all?) big sports league have a player union, but it is a traditionnaly a mess to negociate both with the league and each team manager.
Honestly I think "our" best bet is some kind of public or etatic juristiction of esport.
For exemple if as a team you needed to ask a the status of "esport organisation in X game" to the EU which would give you a specific legal existence and come with some specific amount of rules to follow and if you didn't you would lose you autorisation to compete in tournament in the EU. (or got a fine or a suspension or whatever) Of course that mean tournaments would also need to be under that governing body (and maybe the player too?)
It's not really an idea for this century but it's the best idea that pop into my head. (of course you can start with that and end up with another IOC)
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On December 08 2019 10:29 carlba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2019 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2019 10:12 carlba wrote:On December 08 2019 09:35 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2019 09:32 carlba wrote:On December 08 2019 01:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 07 2019 23:15 carlosB. wrote:On December 07 2019 23:11 Branch.AUT wrote:On December 07 2019 22:53 carlosB. wrote:
Did someone notice that he actually played? That he represented a Team and/or Sponsor? To be honest, last time i have heard somethig of Nerchio was during the Roach/Bane Allin times during HotS. What does he need a team for? Pretty sure all he does for the team is putting a couple of letters in front of his nick. Has Nerchio been streaming? Oh no wait, cant make those allins public
But make sure to support your favorite player, especially after he wishes death on someone Just registered to post this. Gee I wonder who you might be. Situation as described by nerchio seems pretty clear, team owes him money, which if contractually agreed upon should be possible to get. Nerchio I hope you have legal counselling in this case, I think it would would help you acquire your money in the end. Travel expanses might be tricky if the team didn't agree to it prior to the tournament, but the salary seems like a clear cut thing. Smart move by Nerchio; Sign for a team > ??? > "Where is ma money!?". Who are you? Utterly fucking irrelevant, go Google ‘contract’ before you spout even more bollocks on your third post. Hey asshole. post that contract. How do you know if Nerchio is telling the truth? Was Nerchio fulfilling that contract? Literally said in my first post on the matter ‘if Nerchio’s version of events is accurate’ but nice try. The wisdom of Mkers throwing money at him or not isn’t the issue, it’s if they aren’t honouring their agreed obligations. "if". Good one. So you are just talking out of your ass The fuck are you talking about? Fuck off. My posts were preceded with ‘if Nerchio’s account is accurate’ and anything I said from there was with that important caveat in mind. Your, rather short posting history basically equates to (totally not damage control) that Nerchio is bad and didn’t deserve his money. "If that contract was fulfilled by Nerchio, he deserves the money". What a wise post.
This sort of shit has happened enough that it's real easy to believe Nerchio. Plenty of shitbag companies run by scumbags don't like to pay their players.
Hope you get the money you're owed Nerchio!
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Northern Ireland26232 Posts
On December 08 2019 10:28 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2019 07:41 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2019 07:28 Boggyb wrote:On December 08 2019 03:32 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2019 03:22 Boggyb wrote:On December 08 2019 01:17 Wombat_NI wrote:
It’s not like Nerchio is some naive kid here either who didn’t sign formal contracts or whatever. Although naive kids also shouldn’t be taken advantage of.
If Nerchio’s version of events is at all accurate, Mkers players should be barred from WCS competition until he gets his money. This is literally the dumbest possible solution and you should be ashamed to suggest it. You want to punish players for something they had no involvement in? What do you propose? Pay your players or you don’t get to use a platform like WCS to expose your brand until you settle your debts. It’s how plenty of ‘real’ sports operate, never mind wider business in general. I’d be fine with Mkers players participating in these tournaments but absolutely not under the Mkers brand unless this is resolved: What's there to propose? This is a contract dispute between 2 private parties. What the players should do is form an esports union to which players pay dues so that players have someone with legal knowledge and financial power on their side when they have financial disputes with teams or what not. It could extend beyond Starcraft 2 into any and every esport. How do you have a union in a multinational industry that crosses many different borders and different legal and employment codes? As someone who is a strong advocate of unionisation I don’t see how this is workable at all Ultimately who’s going to be the arbiter here anyway? Blizzard? How is that functionally any different from me suggesting Blizzard should punish teams who don’t honour their contracts to players? I would be curious to know how sports league do it, I know in NA some (all?) big sports league have a player union, but it is a traditionnaly a mess to negociate both with the league and each team manager. Honestly I think "our" best bet is some kind of public or etatic juristiction of esport. For exemple if as a team you needed to ask a the status of "esport organisation in X game" to the EU which would give you a specific legal existence and come with some specific amount of rules to follow and if you didn't you would lose you autorisation to compete in tournament in the EU. (or got a fine or a suspension or whatever) Of course that mean tournaments would also need to be under that governing body (and maybe the player too?) It's not really an idea for this century but it's the best idea that pop into my head. (of course you can start with that and end up with another IOC)
Well as real world sport examples go (sadly) we’ve had a fair few of English football teams get docked points in their respective leagues for not paying wages to staff (not just players but administrative staff too)
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Northern Ireland26232 Posts
On December 08 2019 10:29 carlba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2019 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2019 10:12 carlba wrote:On December 08 2019 09:35 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 08 2019 09:32 carlba wrote:On December 08 2019 01:19 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 07 2019 23:15 carlosB. wrote:On December 07 2019 23:11 Branch.AUT wrote:On December 07 2019 22:53 carlosB. wrote:
Did someone notice that he actually played? That he represented a Team and/or Sponsor? To be honest, last time i have heard somethig of Nerchio was during the Roach/Bane Allin times during HotS. What does he need a team for? Pretty sure all he does for the team is putting a couple of letters in front of his nick. Has Nerchio been streaming? Oh no wait, cant make those allins public
But make sure to support your favorite player, especially after he wishes death on someone Just registered to post this. Gee I wonder who you might be. Situation as described by nerchio seems pretty clear, team owes him money, which if contractually agreed upon should be possible to get. Nerchio I hope you have legal counselling in this case, I think it would would help you acquire your money in the end. Travel expanses might be tricky if the team didn't agree to it prior to the tournament, but the salary seems like a clear cut thing. Smart move by Nerchio; Sign for a team > ??? > "Where is ma money!?". Who are you? Utterly fucking irrelevant, go Google ‘contract’ before you spout even more bollocks on your third post. Hey asshole. post that contract. How do you know if Nerchio is telling the truth? Was Nerchio fulfilling that contract? Literally said in my first post on the matter ‘if Nerchio’s version of events is accurate’ but nice try. The wisdom of Mkers throwing money at him or not isn’t the issue, it’s if they aren’t honouring their agreed obligations. "if". Good one. So you are just talking out of your ass The fuck are you talking about? Fuck off. My posts were preceded with ‘if Nerchio’s account is accurate’ and anything I said from there was with that important caveat in mind. Your, rather short posting history basically equates to (totally not damage control) that Nerchio is bad and didn’t deserve his money. "If that contract was fulfilled by Nerchio, he deserves the money". What a wise post.
Well I hate to toot my own horn but it really is. This is what contracts are.
As to the wisdom of giving him said contract it’s another thing, but if you do so you have to honour it.
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Northern Ireland26232 Posts
Interesting how two totally not the same people got banned from the site for spouting anti-Nerchio nonsense and who seemingly only appeared on the site today!
Makes you think really
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I hope that isn't someone with an affiliation to mkers. Would have to really about the people running the show there. Already do I guess *shrugs*
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Mkers smurf accounts in this thread counter: 2
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As usual, disgusting organization who doesn't even have the decency to respond publicly and had to use some smurf accounts. Pathetic much? Somehow Duracell and Armani sponsor this despicable organization. Disappointing.
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Unfortunately this is nothing new in esports. Even big LoL and CS:GO organizations and players signed to them are affected by this. ENCE in CS:GO has a pretty bad reputation right now, as does Griffin in the LCK for example. I don't understand why it happens so much in esports, especially when players have unions and lawyers representing them.
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On December 07 2019 23:15 carlosB. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2019 23:11 Branch.AUT wrote:On December 07 2019 22:53 carlosB. wrote:
Did someone notice that he actually played? That he represented a Team and/or Sponsor? To be honest, last time i have heard somethig of Nerchio was during the Roach/Bane Allin times during HotS. What does he need a team for? Pretty sure all he does for the team is putting a couple of letters in front of his nick. Has Nerchio been streaming? Oh no wait, cant make those allins public
But make sure to support your favorite player, especially after he wishes death on someone Just registered to post this. Gee I wonder who you might be. Situation as described by nerchio seems pretty clear, team owes him money, which if contractually agreed upon should be possible to get. Nerchio I hope you have legal counselling in this case, I think it would would help you acquire your money in the end. Travel expanses might be tricky if the team didn't agree to it prior to the tournament, but the salary seems like a clear cut thing. Smart move by Nerchio; Sign for a team > ??? > "Where is ma money!?". Who are you?
I wonder who Carlos is... HMMMMM.....
Scammers, frauds and cheaters; Mkers. I hope they crash and burn and that their kind are never able to be involved with any e-sport in the future. If only hopes could come true.
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17 hours this post has been up and Nerchio hasn't provided any proof. Imo for a thread that could damage a team's reputation there needs to be some collaboration here. Either directly to the admins, or some other pro player providing proof. A person's word is one thing, but facts and evidence are indisputable.
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This looks bad but I reserve the right to judge after I see everything. We only have half the story so far and while I don't doubt Nerchio blind faith is bad faith when it comes to witch hunts, we need to be very careful as to how we react until we know more.
But if this is true, then I hope someone offers him cheap litigation to settle any debts owed if things don't get resolved.
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On December 08 2019 15:34 -Kyo- wrote:
17 hours this post has been up and Nerchio hasn't provided any proof. Imo for a thread that could damage a team's reputation there needs to be some collaboration here. Either directly to the admins, or some other pro player providing proof. A person's word is one thing, but facts and evidence are indisputable.
What proof do you expect? He can't show you his contract because it's confidential probably. He can't show you his bank account because... it's private. The only thing he can show you is communication but he probably expects some good will from Mkers, so he doesn't post it yet.
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To all the people asking Nerchio to provide proof, why would he even make a post like this if he was bullshitting? In eSports and especially in SC2, it seems like you'd always want to be on your team's good side, and doing something like this would ruin him if it didn't have some truth to it.
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On December 08 2019 16:24 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2019 15:34 -Kyo- wrote:
17 hours this post has been up and Nerchio hasn't provided any proof. Imo for a thread that could damage a team's reputation there needs to be some collaboration here. Either directly to the admins, or some other pro player providing proof. A person's word is one thing, but facts and evidence are indisputable. The only thing he can show you is communication but he probably expects some good will from Mkers, so he doesn't post it yet.
This is what I said would be reasonably expected. Again, I think he is being truthful, but you simply cannot post something like this and use community leverage to your advantage without posting some form of evidence, it's rather unfair.
Just imagine if, for whatever reason, Nercho was not being fully truthful here. That's the sort of thing you should think about before you take any side.
On December 08 2019 16:39 mythikdawn wrote:
To all the people asking Nerchio to provide proof, why would he even make a post like this if he was bullshitting? In eSports and especially in SC2, it seems like you'd always want to be on your team's good side, and doing something like this would ruin him if it didn't have some truth to it.
Because it has happened in other communities before, and it's an organization that has sponsorship, players, and staff at risk. If you're willing to put those things on blast, and at risk of being dissolved, the least you could do is put a chat log where you don't get any response from said manager.
Just to be clear, TL is a tight nit community - so I think we can all take Nerchio as being truthful here. That said, it does not absolve him of providing any evidence as he is attempting to use the community to pressure Mkers - or to damage their org given their current standstill over his contract/payments.
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On December 08 2019 17:54 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2019 16:24 SC-Shield wrote:On December 08 2019 15:34 -Kyo- wrote:
17 hours this post has been up and Nerchio hasn't provided any proof. Imo for a thread that could damage a team's reputation there needs to be some collaboration here. Either directly to the admins, or some other pro player providing proof. A person's word is one thing, but facts and evidence are indisputable. The only thing he can show you is communication but he probably expects some good will from Mkers, so he doesn't post it yet. This is what I said would be reasonably expected. Again, I think he is being truthful, but you simply cannot post something like this and use community leverage to your advantage without posting some form of evidence, it's rather unfair. Just imagine if, for whatever reason, Nercho was not being fully truthful here. That's the sort of thing you should think about before you take any side. Show nested quote +On December 08 2019 16:39 mythikdawn wrote:
To all the people asking Nerchio to provide proof, why would he even make a post like this if he was bullshitting? In eSports and especially in SC2, it seems like you'd always want to be on your team's good side, and doing something like this would ruin him if it didn't have some truth to it. Because it has happened in other communities before, and it's an organization that has sponsorship, players, and staff at risk. If you're willing to put those things on blast, and at risk of being dissolved, the least you could do is put a chat log where you don't get any response from said manager. Just to be clear, TL is a tight nit community - so I think we can all take Nerchio as being truthful here. That said, it does not absolve him of providing any evidence as he is attempting to use the community to pressure Mkers - or to damage their org given their current standstill over his contract/payments.
MKers can, and probably should have given a statement to clarify the situation from their side - they have not done so. Then again, it is weekend, so we might as well keep sharpening the pitchforks.
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Dear Nerchio,
It is aweful to read that you have been treated this way. I hope that your post reaches the many influential people who are part of the TL community to change things for the better and help you.
Organizations who work with players should be both forthcoming and supportive of the people they sponsor. They are bound by a professional standard expected from any employer, whether in e-sports or elsewhere. SC2 players should not have to run after their money, they should be playing the game that brings us so much joy all around the world.
If Mkers claims a different version of events, it should be reaching out to you in order to clarify the situation. This is the minimum they could do for you and anyone else working for them.
Please keep this thread alive, in hope that Nerchio will receive a reply from Mkers and be able to resolve his claims in a productive way.
The Dude
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On December 08 2019 17:54 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2019 16:24 SC-Shield wrote:On December 08 2019 15:34 -Kyo- wrote:
17 hours this post has been up and Nerchio hasn't provided any proof. Imo for a thread that could damage a team's reputation there needs to be some collaboration here. Either directly to the admins, or some other pro player providing proof. A person's word is one thing, but facts and evidence are indisputable. The only thing he can show you is communication but he probably expects some good will from Mkers, so he doesn't post it yet. This is what I said would be reasonably expected. Again, I think he is being truthful, but you simply cannot post something like this and use community leverage to your advantage without posting some form of evidence, it's rather unfair. Just imagine if, for whatever reason, Nercho was not being fully truthful here. That's the sort of thing you should think about before you take any side.
Even chat log without response could be faked. It's much better to hear from Mkers.
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EPT
