Group of death? No problem for #1 Circuit player Serral, who advanced in first place from Group B with 3-0 wins against both Stats and TIME. The six games ended up being a showcase for Serral's full-range of capabilities, ranging from suffocating BL-Infestor play in the late-game, to precisely executed Nydus all-ins, to clinical Mutalisk harassment.
The path to the quarterfinals was rockier for Maru, who advanced in second place after surviving an early scare against TIME. In the upset of the tournament so far, TIME took a 3-2 win against Maru in their initial match, often catching Maru flat-footed with daring drops or aggressive marine advances. Even Maru's vaunted late-game play couldn't carry him to a victory, leaving him with no excuses for the loss.
However, the early upset seemed to help Maru lock in for the rest of his games. He eliminated Stats 3-0 in the losers match, dancing his way past his opponent's Disruptor-heavy style for a convincing series win. In the decider match, Maru took care of business against TIME in the way many predicted would happen the first time around, shutting down his opponent's offense and earning another 3-0 sweep.
The WCS Global Finals will resume to Group C of the RO16 on Saturday, Oct 26 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), featuring Classic, HeroMarine, HerO, and Reynor.
Serral and Maru advancing has nothing to do with balance. They are simply the best two players in the group. But Time was better than I thought, at least in the first series.
The best players advance from both groups so far imo. No upsets. Stats played bad. Yesterday was however, showing more zerg abuse and imbalance, even tho the results were not upsetting, the gameplay was. Showtime could have advanced. I hope HerO and Classic will bring their a-game tomorrow. I predict Classic 1st, HerO second, reynor third.
are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
I'm glad Maru advanced but it's disappointing that Stats couldn't show better results. I actually thought Stats would beat Maru, and likely give a good series vs. Serral it's too bad that he has to exist early. Over all the series weren't that great, maybe the 3-2 Time vs Maru was the best because it was close? I find the current TvT meta to be pretty stale though. Serral as always showed I think what one would expect, just hard to get excited about Nydus and BL/Infestor, I hope Reynor can put together a good run, he's much more interesting to watch.
On October 25 2019 20:23 AgentRabbits wrote: I'm glad Maru advanced but it's disappointing that Stats couldn't show better results. I actually thought Stats would beat Maru, and likely give a good series vs. Serral it's too bad that he has to exist early. Over all the series weren't that great, maybe the 3-2 Time vs Maru was the best because it was close? I find the current TvT meta to be pretty stale though. Serral as always showed I think what one would expect, just hard to get excited about Nydus and BL/Infestor, I hope Reynor can put together a good run, he's much more interesting to watch.
In the end for Raynor it's a mental issue more than game/playing issue. He usually bombs out in tournaments with Koreans for some reason.
The two favorites advance, so no reason to whine. Big plays by TIME, he was absolutly amazing. Him and Reynor are defnatly the biggest threads to Serral in the future.
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Our deacon.frost is a conspirationist. Brackets are rigged 24/7 in his opinion!
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Our deacon.frost is a conspirationist. Brackets are rigged 24/7 in his opinion!
Cmon, last year it actually happened. They pulled a random rule nobody ever heard before out of their asses to make the bracket more to their liking.
To cut through the tinfoil hats though, Maru and Serral aren't going to meet before finals according to well known rules about players from same group not getting to same half of bracket.
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Right before drawing the RO8 matches they stated there's suddenly a new rule that the #1 Seed of Korea and the #1 Seed of the WCS can't be on the same side of the brakcet. A new random rule to make sure Maru and Serral are on the opposite side of brakcets and can't meet themselves. Which backfire thanks to the teamkill and sOs.
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Our deacon.frost is a conspirationist. Brackets are rigged 24/7 in his opinion!
Cmon, last year it actually happened. They pulled a random rule nobody ever heard before out of their asses to make the bracket more to their liking.
To cut through the tinfoil hats though, Maru and Serral aren't going to meet before finals according to well known rules about players from same group not getting to same half of bracket.
At this point I think he's just trolling because this happened, was recorded and yet he denies it just because I wrote it.
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Right before drawing the RO8 matches they stated there's suddenly a new rule that the #1 Seed of Korea and the #1 Seed of the WCS can't be on the same side of the brakcet. A new random rule to make sure Maru and Serral are on the opposite side of brakcets and can't meet themselves. Which backfire thanks to the teamkill and sOs.
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Our deacon.frost is a conspirationist. Brackets are rigged 24/7 in his opinion!
Cmon, last year it actually happened. They pulled a random rule nobody ever heard before out of their asses to make the bracket more to their liking.
To cut through the tinfoil hats though, Maru and Serral aren't going to meet before finals according to well known rules about players from same group not getting to same half of bracket.
At this point I think he's just trolling because this happened, was recorded and yet he denies it just because I wrote it.
IIRC the players knew about it before it was announced? It seemed like an alright rule to have, but the way they announced the rule was really sloppy and fed the rumour mill.
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Right before drawing the RO8 matches they stated there's suddenly a new rule that the #1 Seed of Korea and the #1 Seed of the WCS can't be on the same side of the brakcet. A new random rule to make sure Maru and Serral are on the opposite side of brakcets and can't meet themselves. Which backfire thanks to the teamkill and sOs.
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Our deacon.frost is a conspirationist. Brackets are rigged 24/7 in his opinion!
Cmon, last year it actually happened. They pulled a random rule nobody ever heard before out of their asses to make the bracket more to their liking.
To cut through the tinfoil hats though, Maru and Serral aren't going to meet before finals according to well known rules about players from same group not getting to same half of bracket.
At this point I think he's just trolling because this happened, was recorded and yet he denies it just because I wrote it.
Blizzard's announcement was untimely and unexpected, but that's no more "rigging the brackets" than deciding that the first and the second of a certain group must be seeded on opposite sides. I think, and Liquipedia does as well, that Blizzard will use the "#1 seed can only match in the finals" rule this year too so that Dark and Serral would not face each other in the ro4.
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Our deacon.frost is a conspirationist. Brackets are rigged 24/7 in his opinion!
They are only rigged for Serral and the foreigners. They rigged all the tournaments during the whole year, so Serral would not end up with another Zerg in his group. And they even rigged the patches to make Z OP, thus handing him the easiest route to Blizzcon. 300IQ play by WCS and Bliz !
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Our deacon.frost is a conspirationist. Brackets are rigged 24/7 in his opinion!
They are only rigged for Serral and the foreigners. They rigged all the tournaments during the whole year, and even rigged the patches so Serral would not end up with another Zerg in his group, thus handing him the easiest route to Blizzcon. 300IQ play by WCS and Bliz !
On October 25 2019 20:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: are RO8 seedings random? I.e. coming from the same group is it at all possible for Serral and Maru to meet before grand finals? EDIT: ofc im only asking hypothetically, we all know its never going to happen anyways :/
Blizzard will surely update the rules so they can manipulate it the proper way the same way they did it the last Blizzcon.
? what are you referring to?
Our deacon.frost is a conspirationist. Brackets are rigged 24/7 in his opinion!
They are only rigged for Serral and the foreigners. They rigged all the tournaments during the whole year, so Serral would not end up with another Zerg in his group. And they even rigged the patches to make Z OP, thus handing him the easiest route to Blizzcon. 300IQ play by WCS and Bliz !
deacon.frost already addressed this point: the rigging he referred to wasn't to favour foreigners/serral but to enable the possibility for a Maru vs Serral final.
When Blizzard would be smart (and Blizzard is normally smart), they would support Time and the Chinese Community, because there is a lot of money in the market. But Time got the hardest group, it's a proof for me that there is not any kind of manipulation from Blizzard.
On October 26 2019 00:25 Nakajin wrote: Guys group were done by seeding....
That was sarcasm by Mariano. He's more subtle than you would expect, he trolls very often! Like when he says that Maru has the best TvZ in history, Mariano is such a fun guy.
On October 26 2019 00:25 Nakajin wrote: Guys group were done by seeding....
That was sarcasm by Mariano. He's more subtle than you would expect, he trolls very often! Like when he says that Maru has the best TvZ in history, Mariano is such a fun guy.
I have been made! But seriously who is best TvZ player of all time in Sc2? Maru is arguably top 2 overall, and his TvZ stands out quite a lot, no?
Edit: Sry man, forgot about off race Serral of course
On October 26 2019 00:25 Nakajin wrote: Guys group were done by seeding....
That was sarcasm by Mariano. He's more subtle than you would expect, he trolls very often! Like when he says that Maru has the best TvZ in history, Mariano is such a fun guy.
I have been made! But seriously who is best TvZ player of all time in Sc2? Maru is arguably top 2 overall, and his TvZ stands out quite a lot, no?
Edit: Sry man, forgot about off race Serral of course
I think INno has the best tvz ever, then I would say TaeJa, then probably MVP then Maru. Maru success almost always came at time when zerg was weaker, and he never won a tournament over a zerg as far as I can remember. Hi tvz is much better in LOTV but in HOTS it was quite weak.
First: The rule may have always existed but the #1 Circuit player and #1 Korea player didn’t usually get to the Ro8 together. Was last year the first time? One of them usually was tripped in the Ro16.
The rule this year would not affect Maru: it would put Serral and Dark on opposite sides of the bracket as they are both through.
Maru and Serral will not meet before the Ro4. Having advanced from the same group it is impossible for them to be drawn together.
I think, by sheer evidence, it’s clear that Serral is a better player than Maru. More wins, more consistent play - and most importantly: he’s always held up his end of the bargain when a match with Maru was on the line. Maru on the other hand has failed to deliver time after time. Not sure what his record is in matches that would feed into a potential Maru Serral match but I know this: since April of last year he is 0-for-several. If Serral is drawn on his side of the bracket expect him to fail in the Ro8 again. It’s just what he does. Past performance has born that out.
On October 26 2019 00:25 Nakajin wrote: Guys group were done by seeding....
That was sarcasm by Mariano. He's more subtle than you would expect, he trolls very often! Like when he says that Maru has the best TvZ in history, Mariano is such a fun guy.
I have been made! But seriously who is best TvZ player of all time in Sc2? Maru is arguably top 2 overall, and his TvZ stands out quite a lot, no?
Edit: Sry man, forgot about off race Serral of course
It's weird because I always see Maru as TvP specialist since his first gsl victory against Rain and the resistance he put against protoss dominance in the first half of 2014... His mass medivacs style was wonderful. That said, innovation parade push and Taeja impenetrable defense are the tvz stuffs which impressed me the most (along with Dream but he wasn't consistent)... Maru is top 3 for sure with these boys.
On October 26 2019 00:25 Nakajin wrote: Guys group were done by seeding....
That was sarcasm by Mariano. He's more subtle than you would expect, he trolls very often! Like when he says that Maru has the best TvZ in history, Mariano is such a fun guy.
I have been made! But seriously who is best TvZ player of all time in Sc2? Maru is arguably top 2 overall, and his TvZ stands out quite a lot, no?
Edit: Sry man, forgot about off race Serral of course
I think INno has the best tvz ever, then I would say TaeJa, then probably MVP then Maru. Maru success almost always came at time when zerg was weaker, and he never won a tournament over a zerg as far as I can remember. Hi tvz is much better in LOTV but in HOTS it was quite weak.
He's the best tvp player ever for sure tho
Zerg wasn’t weak during his IEM / WESG run since Rogue beat him and Dark came very close. INno in HotS probably but not LotV, ByuN / Maru dominated TvZ on this game. TaeJa idk. Mvp obviously not, I know it’s old stuff but watch his games against Stephano in WCS, the micro back then wasn’t as good as today and I’d argue MKP was better than Mvp in WoL during the DRG era before Broodlord infestor (Mvp was good with ghosts though)
On October 26 2019 01:13 StarcraftSquall wrote: Couple of things:
First: The rule may have always existed but the #1 Circuit player and #1 Korea player didn’t usually get to the Ro8 together. Was last year the first time? One of them usually was tripped in the Ro16.
The rule this year would not affect Maru: it would put Serral and Dark on opposite sides of the bracket as they are both through.
Maru and Serral will not meet before the Ro4. Having advanced from the same group it is impossible for them to be drawn together.
I think, by sheer evidence, it’s clear that Serral is a better player than Maru. More wins, more consistent play - and most importantly: he’s always held up his end of the bargain when a match with Maru was on the line. Maru on the other hand has failed to deliver time after time. Not sure what his record is in matches that would feed into a potential Maru Serral match but I know this: since April of last year he is 0-for-several. If Serral is drawn on his side of the bracket expect him to fail in the Ro8 again. It’s just what he does. Past performance has born that out.
He's not as his vKorean matches are scarce and even with his domination he doesn't go that far away. Well, that's taken care off, what do you have next?
Serral crushed it today, to go 6-0 in the so called group of death just shows how above everybody else.
I don't get the hype about Maru. I saw his last 2 GSL wins (only got back into starcraft a while ago) and it seems his team provide amazing prep for him and he was abusing a proxy meta really badly (which is why he got rolled by SOS at blizzcon). He doesn't seem that impressive overall and gets rolled quite often if his initial plans fall apart. it showed again today with him not being able to adapt to time in the first series. then he crushed the second as he clearly had a few hours to go through the vods and adapt.
the most disappointing matches where from stats.. seems everything he did was wrong or ineffective, but then maybe that's just protoss at the moment.. seems all their expensive massive units are garbage.. should stick with mass HT's and storm.
Huh. Interesting... Different criteria I suppose, but for me it's Maru undisputed. His mechanics and late game control in TvZ is unmatched and no Terran came even close to his level of play across any expansion. Yes Inno has better stats but this is highly buffed by Zerg not having enough players in Korea like they used to during the fist 2 expos and Maru not reaching his absolute peak until LOTV. +Inno was always known for his robotic timing attacks and doing well when patches were T favored (like Hots mech TvZ).
Let's not forget Maru was the last Terran who made Serral look like a noob, was able to go toe to toe with Rogue during his peak and makes Dark bleed regularly while Dark is making sport of picking Terrans to his group and killing them.
When any top Zerg is asked who they would rather not play they say Maru, even Dark and Serral. And last but not least Maru is the only Terran who does not struggle in the MU even in this meta.
Maru wasn't always this monstrous I admit (he had tendency to die to Z cheese in Hots), but in the last 3 years he has shown a brand new level of TvZ we have never seen before. If this all does not put him at the absolute top I don't know what would.
It's a matter of consistency. Some players, like Maru, are able to dish out extremely impressive play here and there. And then there's Serral, who doesn't ever seem to have ever played poorly (okay, except for those couples of games where he threw harder than a major league pitcher against Reynor). Those games against TIME I felt TIME actually played extremely well... alas, when a 2800 FIDE GM goes up against Magnus Carlsen, "extremely well" still doesn't cut it. Serral is the Magnus of SC2. The rating gap between Serral and the 2nd best guy (Maru/Dark) right now is 200 points—please let that sink in. It's the gap between #2 and #8.
If anyone thinks that after this next major balance patch Serral will be exposed for being a patchzerg, they'll be rudely awakened in 2020.
On October 26 2019 02:19 MarianoSC2 wrote: Huh. Interesting... Different criteria I suppose, but for me it's Maru undisputed. His mechanics and late game control in TvZ is unmatched and no Terran came even close to his level of play across any expansion. Yes Inno has better stats but this is highly buffed by Zerg not having enough players in Korea like they used to during the fist 2 expos and Maru not reaching his absolute peak until LOTV. +Inno was always known for his robotic timing attacks and doing well when patches were T favored (like Hots mech TvZ).
Let's not forget Maru was the last Terran who made Serral look like a noob, was able to go toe to toe with Rogue during his peak and makes Dark bleed regularly while Dark is making sport of picking Terrans to his group and killing them.
When any top Zerg is asked who they would rather not play they say Maru, even Dark and Serral. And last but not least Maru is the only Terran who does not struggle in the MU even in this meta.
Maru wasn't always this monstrous I admit (he had tendency to die to Z cheese in Hots), but in the last 3 years he has shown a brand new level of TvZ we have never seen before. If this all does not put him at the absolute top I don't know what would.
Agreed. Inno is great at parade pushes and timings, but Maru can play any phase of the matchup flawlessly and does things in TvZ no other Terran is capable of. The current map pool will make it very difficult for him to get past Zerg, but would you honestly bet on anyone else?
I think INno has the best tvz ever, then I would say TaeJa, then probably MVP then Maru. Maru success almost always came at time when zerg was weaker, and he never won a tournament over a zerg as far as I can remember. Hi tvz is much better in LOTV but in HOTS it was quite weak.
Wait, wait, wait... I remember Maru being really good at TvZ in HotS, at least at his peak. Early 2015, he gets second at IEM, going through Soulkey and losing to Life in the last game basically by a dumb mistake (but otherwise really going toe to toe with him--these two were very evenly matched at that time). Followed by his SSL title, taking down Dark and Leenock on the way. Like... I'm prepared to admit that overall Innovation almost definitely took the title of best TvZ in HotS, but calling Maru "quite weak" in TvZ in HotS seems like a stretch to me.
On October 26 2019 03:07 Dedraterllaerau wrote: Am I allowed to state my opinion? yes?
Patchzerg.
You are in fact allowed to embarass yourself with a pointless, ignorant opinion. Certain things aren't true even if your opinion would make you think the opposite: Serral simply is not a patchzerg.
I think INno has the best tvz ever, then I would say TaeJa, then probably MVP then Maru. Maru success almost always came at time when zerg was weaker, and he never won a tournament over a zerg as far as I can remember. Hi tvz is much better in LOTV but in HOTS it was quite weak.
Wait, wait, wait... I remember Maru being really good at TvZ in HotS, at least at his peak. Early 2015, he gets second at IEM, going through Soulkey and losing to Life in the last game basically by a dumb mistake (but otherwise really going toe to toe with him--these two were very evenly matched at that time). Followed by his SSL title, taking down Dark and Leenock on the way. Like... I'm prepared to admit that overall Innovation almost definitely took the title of best TvZ in HotS, but calling Maru "quite weak" in TvZ in HotS seems like a stretch to me.
Ya "quite weak" was an overstatement, but I remember him being regularly stopped by zerg in HOTS. I don't have the best memory mind you but at least in 2013 and 2015 his tvz felt weaker than his other matchup, especially in 2013 + he never quite got into the 2015 mech train.
Glad Maru made it out. I would say if he gets eliminated early in the ro8, Serral will very likely win Blizzcon. I don't see Classic, herO, Trap, etc taking more than a game against him in series. That said, I think soO (if he brings his IEM Katowice form), Reynor and Rogue have an ok chance of beating him. Dark has a chance too since I think his ZvZ is improved but considering that he's 2-9 against him in the past 3 series, his odds are bad.
On October 26 2019 03:07 Dedraterllaerau wrote: Am I allowed to state my opinion? yes?
Patchzerg.
You are in fact allowed to embarass yourself with a pointless, ignorant opinion. Certain things aren't true even if your opinion would make you think the opposite: Serral simply is not a patchzerg.
On October 26 2019 03:07 Dedraterllaerau wrote: Am I allowed to state my opinion? yes?
Patchzerg.
You are in fact allowed to embarass yourself with a pointless, ignorant opinion. Certain things aren't true even if your opinion would make you think the opposite: Serral simply is not a patchzerg.
such hostility :D
To be fair your opinion is pretty hostile, but personally I wouldn't answer hostility with hostility ;-)
On October 26 2019 03:07 Dedraterllaerau wrote: Am I allowed to state my opinion? yes?
Patchzerg.
You are in fact allowed to embarass yourself with a pointless, ignorant opinion. Certain things aren't true even if your opinion would make you think the opposite: Serral simply is not a patchzerg.
If anything he is one of best counter-examples of Patch[insert race here], if not the best, by conventional definition of Patch[insert race here].
Or if looked from different angle, if Serral is PatchZerg, then Maru is PatchTerran, as of best co-examples.
Strict definition: Patch[insert race here] is a player who can temporarily get advantage over the field after a new patch, by abusing a new meta better than his peers of same race, performing above his longer term level until the next patch, when he/she loses that advantage. (or something similar along these lines)
Lax definition: Otherwise same as above but may include more than one consecutive patches.
Either Serral or Maru (or anybody else long term top player) cannot be considered Patch[insert race here] because their performance level has been more or less consistently very high over long time period and several consecutive patches to the game.
Its getting rather tiresome to argue against totally wrong use of term Patch[insert race here], attached to players whom it fit least. And if its used as a kind of spamming or trolling, then its just utterly stupid.
Serral is an absolute monster and if he wins he may even be the goat. But I can't help but feel that next year will be the year Serral falls. He has to, doesn't he?
On October 26 2019 04:29 Z3nith wrote: Serral is an absolute monster and if he wins he may even be the goat. But I can't help but feel that next year will be the year Serral falls. He has to, doesn't he?
I think Serral will have temporary fall before falling of the highest tier. He may fall of next year but will probably be back big after awhile before the next generation comes
Maru TvZ is historically his worst. By a big martin.
Since late 2017 however he's been the best in the world by a fucking mile. He barely even loses any TvZs at all since then. Another thing to note as well is that he isn't restricted to any style like INno often was. He can play with almost any comp and strategy.
On October 26 2019 01:47 BerserkSword wrote: Innovation is no doubt best TvZ player of all time imo. not even close
Innovation >>> Maru overall for me too lol
Maru rode the back of raven and proxy meta....
Its close but the last statement there is very ridiculous. The raven was patched after 1 code s season. He created the proxy meta in tvp because there was no other solution. 4 code S in a row says enough. Inno is an absolute beast but ask any zerg pro who they would pick as a T player to veto in a tournament I would guess its extremely skewed to Maru.
On October 26 2019 01:47 BerserkSword wrote: Innovation is no doubt best TvZ player of all time imo. not even close
Innovation >>> Maru overall for me too lol
Maru rode the back of raven and proxy meta....
Its close but the last statement there is very ridiculous. The raven was patched after 1 code s season. He created the proxy meta in tvp because there was no other solution. 4 code S in a row says enough. Inno is an absolute beast but ask any zerg pro who they would pick as a T player to veto in a tournament I would guess its extremely skewed to Maru.
Well obviously now they would, Inno’s having one of his years where the hardware is glitching and he needs sent back to the factory.
Been a weird and disappointing year for Korean Terrans really. Took TY way too long to get going but he looked in good shape last few months, Inno never really did outside of WESG.
Balance can come and it can go, irrespective of balance it really only feels like Maru and the Blizzcon WCS Terrans played consistently at their levels.
I'm amazed that people thought stats played bad, granted I havent seen the games vs maru yet I had to sleep but the games vs serral looked great, he lost sure but each game felt close and showed protoss play at its finest, if zerg wasnt so broken late game I felt he outplayed serral alot of instances.
Hes super talented sad to see him early but I love serral and Maru so go starcraft Haha
On October 26 2019 05:25 Conut wrote: I'm amazed that people thought stats played bad, granted I havent seen the games vs maru yet I had to sleep but the games vs serral looked great, he lost sure but each game felt close and showed protoss play at its finest, if zerg wasnt so broken late game I felt he outplayed serral alot of instances.
Hes super talented sad to see him early but I love serral and Maru so go starcraft Haha
You probably slept during the Serral Stats games as well you just dont remember. Stats played well in the first game, but he chose to auto-lose and try to beat BL/infestor with infinite risk-free nydus counter attacks. 2nd game he didnt scount and 3rd game he just made a huge mistake and let lings into his bases.
People watching Stats regularly know that he is capable of much better plays. Not saying he was terrible, but he wasnt good either
He's not as his vKorean matches are scarce and even with his domination he doesn't go that far away. Well, that's taken care off, what do you have next?
What’s his record against Koreans when he plays them? He’s dropped three matches all year, all of them high profile, and one to Reynor. Maru couldn’t even get out of the Ro32 once this season in GSL. The point is Maru is the reason we’ve never got Maru vs Serral, it has never been Serral who failed to deliver. #FactsOnly
He's not as his vKorean matches are scarce and even with his domination he doesn't go that far away. Well, that's taken care off, what do you have next?
What’s his record against Koreans when he plays them? He’s dropped three matches all year, all of them high profile, and one to Reynor. Maru couldn’t even get out of the Ro32 once this season in GSL. The point is Maru is the reason we’ve never got Maru vs Serral, it has never been Serral who failed to deliver. #FactsOnly
Serral couldn't get into RO32 COde S. The more Koreans you play the more you lose. That's a fact. Serral not playiong them that often can keep higher profile while not having it that high his fanboys are trying to persuade people he has.
He's not as his vKorean matches are scarce and even with his domination he doesn't go that far away. Well, that's taken care off, what do you have next?
What’s his record against Koreans when he plays them? He’s dropped three matches all year, all of them high profile, and one to Reynor. Maru couldn’t even get out of the Ro32 once this season in GSL. The point is Maru is the reason we’ve never got Maru vs Serral, it has never been Serral who failed to deliver. #FactsOnly
Serral couldn't get into RO32 COde S. The more Koreans you play the more you lose. That's a fact. Serral not playiong them that often can keep higher profile while not having it that high his fanboys are trying to persuade people he has.
You’ve got to be trolling with the first point.
At this stage many of us want to see it, hopefully next year he’ll give it a go. I think it’s gone beyond him needing to prove himself on that stage, although that’s a factor, but also for the first time Code S doesn’t have arguably the best player in the world competing in it, so the competition itself could do with Serral in it too.
He's not as his vKorean matches are scarce and even with his domination he doesn't go that far away. Well, that's taken care off, what do you have next?
What’s his record against Koreans when he plays them? He’s dropped three matches all year, all of them high profile, and one to Reynor. Maru couldn’t even get out of the Ro32 once this season in GSL. The point is Maru is the reason we’ve never got Maru vs Serral, it has never been Serral who failed to deliver. #FactsOnly
Serral couldn't get into RO32 COde S. The more Koreans you play the more you lose. That's a fact. Serral not playiong them that often can keep higher profile while not having it that high his fanboys are trying to persuade people he has.
You’ve got to be trolling with the first point.
At this stage many of us want to see it, hopefully next year he’ll give it a go. I think it’s gone beyond him needing to prove himself on that stage, although that’s a factor, but also for the first time Code S doesn’t have arguably the best player in the world competing in it, so the competition itself could do with Serral in it too.
I don't need him to prove anything but if they use Code S against MAru I will use Code S against Serral. Maru plays Koreans more often than Serral thus Koreans know better how Maru plays and Maru has bigger chance of failing. (because they know him better)
Put SErral out of WCS and force him into Korea and after few years we can talk. People keep forgetting that similar thing applies to WCS, that's why some people take Serral to closer series than they should because they're worse(especially when they face Koreans).
He's not as his vKorean matches are scarce and even with his domination he doesn't go that far away. Well, that's taken care off, what do you have next?
What’s his record against Koreans when he plays them? He’s dropped three matches all year, all of them high profile, and one to Reynor. Maru couldn’t even get out of the Ro32 once this season in GSL. The point is Maru is the reason we’ve never got Maru vs Serral, it has never been Serral who failed to deliver. #FactsOnly
Serral couldn't get into RO32 COde S. The more Koreans you play the more you lose. That's a fact. Serral not playiong them that often can keep higher profile while not having it that high his fanboys are trying to persuade people he has.
You’ve got to be trolling with the first point.
At this stage many of us want to see it, hopefully next year he’ll give it a go. I think it’s gone beyond him needing to prove himself on that stage, although that’s a factor, but also for the first time Code S doesn’t have arguably the best player in the world competing in it, so the competition itself could do with Serral in it too.
I don't need him to prove anything but if they use Code S against MAru I will use Code S against Serral. Maru plays Koreans more often than Serral thus Koreans know better how Maru plays and Maru has bigger chance of failing. (because they know him better)
Put SErral out of WCS and force him into Korea and after few years we can talk. People keep forgetting that similar thing applies to WCS, that's why some people take Serral to closer series than they should because they're worse(especially when they face Koreans).
He's not as his vKorean matches are scarce and even with his domination he doesn't go that far away. Well, that's taken care off, what do you have next?
What’s his record against Koreans when he plays them? He’s dropped three matches all year, all of them high profile, and one to Reynor. Maru couldn’t even get out of the Ro32 once this season in GSL. The point is Maru is the reason we’ve never got Maru vs Serral, it has never been Serral who failed to deliver. #FactsOnly
Serral couldn't get into RO32 COde S. The more Koreans you play the more you lose. That's a fact. Serral not playiong them that often can keep higher profile while not having it that high his fanboys are trying to persuade people he has.
You’ve got to be trolling with the first point.
At this stage many of us want to see it, hopefully next year he’ll give it a go. I think it’s gone beyond him needing to prove himself on that stage, although that’s a factor, but also for the first time Code S doesn’t have arguably the best player in the world competing in it, so the competition itself could do with Serral in it too.
I don't need him to prove anything but if they use Code S against MAru I will use Code S against Serral. Maru plays Koreans more often than Serral thus Koreans know better how Maru plays and Maru has bigger chance of failing. (because they know him better)
Put SErral out of WCS and force him into Korea and after few years we can talk. People keep forgetting that similar thing applies to WCS, that's why some people take Serral to closer series than they should because they're worse(especially when they face Koreans).
Serral only tends to play the cream of the Korean crop and still has monster numbers vs Korean opposition. The best if I recall.
It’s possible that with more exposure and playing in Korea the Koreans could wrack their brains and figure him out more thoroughly, I don’t think he’s a player you can figure out though. He’s just incredibly good and can play the various Zerg styles well, not unlike an in-form Maru he just does everything well and you generally have to play like a monster to beat him.
The flip side is his approach seems to work for him and he’s the only true S tier player we’ve had who wasn’t really shaped in the forge of the Korean scene. He may not prosper in that environment and underperform, on the other hand it’s not inconceivable he could step up another level again.
Perceived wisdom is you have to constantly play against the best to keep you in shape to play against the best in meaningful tournaments. As of yet, however his practice and mindset work he just seems able to hit the requisite levels of play without needing to be in Korea for extended periods.
He's not as his vKorean matches are scarce and even with his domination he doesn't go that far away. Well, that's taken care off, what do you have next?
What’s his record against Koreans when he plays them? He’s dropped three matches all year, all of them high profile, and one to Reynor. Maru couldn’t even get out of the Ro32 once this season in GSL. The point is Maru is the reason we’ve never got Maru vs Serral, it has never been Serral who failed to deliver. #FactsOnly
Serral couldn't get into RO32 COde S. The more Koreans you play the more you lose. That's a fact. Serral not playiong them that often can keep higher profile while not having it that high his fanboys are trying to persuade people he has.
And the guy who just wrote that ignores me because I supposedly am a troll.
Yes, Serral would lose some more series against koreans playing in GSL. What makes you think he would not make Code S Ro32, actually? Do you see Dark and Maru even coming close to not qualifying? Try to be serious, at least once.
So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
On October 26 2019 09:07 StarcraftSquall wrote: So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
Literally everyone who plays in GSL is inconsistent besides 2018 Maru and 2014(I think?) SoO. Everyone else in the history of code is is inconsistent when looking at a year of GSL. This is because Code S is just that hard. No one makes deep runs every time. Maru lost to Patience and Innovation. Serral could lose to those players. With the current state of balance and his form probably not but at the time Maru did? Absolutely. Protoss was doing very well at that point in PvZ and that wasn't all that long after Inno beat Serral twice.
On October 26 2019 09:07 StarcraftSquall wrote: So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
Literally everyone who plays in GSL is inconsistent besides 2018 Maru and 2014(I think?) SoO. Everyone else in the history of code is is inconsistent when looking at a year of GSL. This is because Code S is just that hard. No one makes deep runs every time. Maru lost to Patience and Innovation. Serral could lose to those players. With the current state of balance and his form probably not but at the time Maru did? Absolutely. Protoss was doing very well at that point in PvZ and that wasn't all that long after Inno beat Serral twice.
In Code S absolutely, it’s pretty damn cutthroat at that level if you have any kind of off day.
It was an ultimately meaningless result really, but when’s the last time Serral lost to a Meomaika?
This isn’t an anti-Maru point, more a plus point as to Serral’s consistency which is pretty insane. Serral can lose but it’s rare that he loses to such players, it’s to a Stats playing great, Reynor playing a great mirror etc.
For the Maru-inconsistency thing: yeah, that's true this year. And while Serral really seems incredible stable one has to note that most of Maru's competition has far more "hit or miss"-potential. Two bad matches vs very tough or tricky opponents in a GSL groups and you're gone. Serral in WCS almost has no real challenge until Ro8. So, Maru bopping out of Super Tournaments for example, isn't telling much, considering he lost to Dark, the eventual champion in ST2 and to an on-point Stats in ST1. We can easily find so called inconsistency in Serrals performances this year. Losing to Heromarine and to Reynor twice in WCS Winter EU was a huge downer for his standards. He was lucky that he wasn't kicked out by those losses because of tournament format.
Also I think it's true that Maru being exposed to tougher competition all the time makes him more vulnerable. Thus it's really tough to compare players from those different systems because we'll never know how they'd perform in other conditions. We only can stick with the actual results. Serral is ahead of Maru in that regard this year (but not ahead of Dark - his placements weigh heavier imo) just like I'm still convinced that Maru's overall results were better last year than Serral's but this was thoroughly discussed in other threads.
I'm on the side of people who think Stats played really well vs Serral. He was solid, good macro and good composition. But Serral is a monster, and late game Zerg a bit too efficient.
On October 26 2019 09:33 StarscreamG1 wrote: I'm on the side of people who think Stats played really well vs Serral. He was solid, good macro and good composition. But Serral is a monster, and late game Zerg a bit too efficient.
Game one he played pretty darn well with a terrible plan.
It’s ok to mix it up and do something different but at absolute top tier PvZ I can’t honestly recall the last time going into airtoss and actively playing for the real lategame has worked.
Classic similarly IMO played really, really well in one of his sets against Serral at GSL vs the World and still got dismantled because playing for that phase of the game is just not going to work against a player of Serral’s calibre. Actually watched Classic’s first person that set and he was super crisp mechanically and playing really well, but to a terrible plan.
Kept dreaming about the conspiracy that Maru threw the first series to avoid Serral. Yeah yeah, I am only 10% serious here, but it's still entertaining to think about.
Fantastic effort by TIME. Like I keep saying...this kid's going places. He's also a super humble player which is nice. I felt like there was a bit of BM from Maru towards him after the first series.
Stats....feelsbadman. I didn't feel like he brought his absolute ace game.
Rooting for more P and T victors. If the Global Finals becomes another Z orgy towards the finals, I'm probably going to stop watching. I'm sick of ZvZ semis/finals and abusive nydus and BL/infestor stomp wins are just too frustrating to watch.
Hoping for Maru (or Big Gabe) to take the tournament.
TIME's last night stream:" I asked Inno how to defeat Z , he don't have a solution either. And he says Bilizard love serral, they want a western player to be much more powerful so this patch sucks."
On October 26 2019 09:07 StarcraftSquall wrote: So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
Literally everyone who plays in GSL is inconsistent besides 2018 Maru and 2014(I think?) SoO. Everyone else in the history of code is is inconsistent when looking at a year of GSL. This is because Code S is just that hard. No one makes deep runs every time. Maru lost to Patience and Innovation. Serral could lose to those players. With the current state of balance and his form probably not but at the time Maru did? Absolutely. Protoss was doing very well at that point in PvZ and that wasn't all that long after Inno beat Serral twice.
In Code S absolutely, it’s pretty damn cutthroat at that level if you have any kind of off day.
It was an ultimately meaningless result really, but when’s the last time Serral lost to a Meomaika?
This isn’t an anti-Maru point, more a plus point as to Serral’s consistency which is pretty insane. Serral can lose but it’s rare that he loses to such players, it’s to a Stats playing great, Reynor playing a great mirror etc.
I don't understand why people always bring up Meomaika like it means something. It was the group stage with only one real opponent being Special, Maru was guaranteed to advance regardless. I doubt he took it seriously.
Serral also lost a map to Zhugeliang at ASUS ROG in a group that had Innovation and Lambo, much higher stakes, yet no one brings it up. Ever.
On October 26 2019 09:07 StarcraftSquall wrote: So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
Literally everyone who plays in GSL is inconsistent besides 2018 Maru and 2014(I think?) SoO. Everyone else in the history of code is is inconsistent when looking at a year of GSL. This is because Code S is just that hard. No one makes deep runs every time. Maru lost to Patience and Innovation. Serral could lose to those players. With the current state of balance and his form probably not but at the time Maru did? Absolutely. Protoss was doing very well at that point in PvZ and that wasn't all that long after Inno beat Serral twice.
In Code S absolutely, it’s pretty damn cutthroat at that level if you have any kind of off day.
It was an ultimately meaningless result really, but when’s the last time Serral lost to a Meomaika?
This isn’t an anti-Maru point, more a plus point as to Serral’s consistency which is pretty insane. Serral can lose but it’s rare that he loses to such players, it’s to a Stats playing great, Reynor playing a great mirror etc.
Serral also lost a map to Zhugeliang at ASUS ROG in a group that had Innovation and Lambo, much higher stakes, yet no one brings it up. Ever.
I've heard it brought up many times by several casters as a joke for a few weeks after the incident. Zhu is a 6300 EU rated player, whereas Meomaika's so off-the-radar that his MMR is unknown. Maru losing 0-2 to Meomaika is a much, much bigger deal. Maru has also failed to make it out of group stage in more than one occasion (IEM XIII, where he couldn't even beat Neeb to get out of group stage). Maru is top3 world, but just isn't a Serral, and it's okay. Just get over it already.
On October 26 2019 09:07 StarcraftSquall wrote: So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
Literally everyone who plays in GSL is inconsistent besides 2018 Maru and 2014(I think?) SoO. Everyone else in the history of code is is inconsistent when looking at a year of GSL. This is because Code S is just that hard. No one makes deep runs every time. Maru lost to Patience and Innovation. Serral could lose to those players. With the current state of balance and his form probably not but at the time Maru did? Absolutely. Protoss was doing very well at that point in PvZ and that wasn't all that long after Inno beat Serral twice.
In Code S absolutely, it’s pretty damn cutthroat at that level if you have any kind of off day.
It was an ultimately meaningless result really, but when’s the last time Serral lost to a Meomaika?
This isn’t an anti-Maru point, more a plus point as to Serral’s consistency which is pretty insane. Serral can lose but it’s rare that he loses to such players, it’s to a Stats playing great, Reynor playing a great mirror etc.
Serral also lost a map to Zhugeliang at ASUS ROG in a group that had Innovation and Lambo, much higher stakes, yet no one brings it up. Ever.
I've heard it brought up many times by several casters as a joke for a few weeks after the incident. Zhu is a 6300 EU rated player, whereas Meomaika's so off-the-radar that his MMR is unknown. Maru losing 0-2 to Meomaika is a much, much bigger deal. Maru has also failed to make it out of group stage in more than one occasion (IEM XIII, where he couldn't even beat Neeb to get out of group stage). Maru is top3 world, but just isn't a Serral, and it's okay. Just get over it already.
MeomaikA has a decent rating on Korean server as far as I know, but that's not the point. Dropping a map while winning the series is very different from losing the series, as simple as that.
On October 26 2019 09:07 StarcraftSquall wrote: So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
Literally everyone who plays in GSL is inconsistent besides 2018 Maru and 2014(I think?) SoO. Everyone else in the history of code is is inconsistent when looking at a year of GSL. This is because Code S is just that hard. No one makes deep runs every time. Maru lost to Patience and Innovation. Serral could lose to those players. With the current state of balance and his form probably not but at the time Maru did? Absolutely. Protoss was doing very well at that point in PvZ and that wasn't all that long after Inno beat Serral twice.
In Code S absolutely, it’s pretty damn cutthroat at that level if you have any kind of off day.
It was an ultimately meaningless result really, but when’s the last time Serral lost to a Meomaika?
This isn’t an anti-Maru point, more a plus point as to Serral’s consistency which is pretty insane. Serral can lose but it’s rare that he loses to such players, it’s to a Stats playing great, Reynor playing a great mirror etc.
Serral also lost a map to Zhugeliang at ASUS ROG in a group that had Innovation and Lambo, much higher stakes, yet no one brings it up. Ever.
I've heard it brought up many times by several casters as a joke for a few weeks after the incident. Zhu is a 6300 EU rated player, whereas Meomaika's so off-the-radar that his MMR is unknown. Maru losing 0-2 to Meomaika is a much, much bigger deal. Maru has also failed to make it out of group stage in more than one occasion (IEM XIII, where he couldn't even beat Neeb to get out of group stage). Maru is top3 world, but just isn't a Serral, and it's okay. Just get over it already.
Terrans results were horrendous this tournament so that should be taken into account. I don’t see Serral capable of being the « Zerg hope » like Maru is the Terran hope time and time again. I don’t hear often « just play like Serral » because it’s not needed. It’s okay
On October 26 2019 09:07 StarcraftSquall wrote: So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
Literally everyone who plays in GSL is inconsistent besides 2018 Maru and 2014(I think?) SoO. Everyone else in the history of code is is inconsistent when looking at a year of GSL. This is because Code S is just that hard. No one makes deep runs every time. Maru lost to Patience and Innovation. Serral could lose to those players. With the current state of balance and his form probably not but at the time Maru did? Absolutely. Protoss was doing very well at that point in PvZ and that wasn't all that long after Inno beat Serral twice.
In Code S absolutely, it’s pretty damn cutthroat at that level if you have any kind of off day.
It was an ultimately meaningless result really, but when’s the last time Serral lost to a Meomaika?
This isn’t an anti-Maru point, more a plus point as to Serral’s consistency which is pretty insane. Serral can lose but it’s rare that he loses to such players, it’s to a Stats playing great, Reynor playing a great mirror etc.
Serral also lost a map to Zhugeliang at ASUS ROG in a group that had Innovation and Lambo, much higher stakes, yet no one brings it up. Ever.
I've heard it brought up many times by several casters as a joke for a few weeks after the incident. Zhu is a 6300 EU rated player, whereas Meomaika's so off-the-radar that his MMR is unknown. Maru losing 0-2 to Meomaika is a much, much bigger deal. Maru has also failed to make it out of group stage in more than one occasion (IEM XIII, where he couldn't even beat Neeb to get out of group stage). Maru is top3 world, but just isn't a Serral, and it's okay. Just get over it already.
MeomaikA has a decent rating on Korean server as far as I know, but that's not the point. Dropping a map while winning the series is very different from losing the series, as simple as that.
I think Serral felt bad for crushing Zhugeliang 4-1 while off-racing as Terran, and decided to give him one as compensation. lol kidding
On October 26 2019 09:07 StarcraftSquall wrote: So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
Literally everyone who plays in GSL is inconsistent besides 2018 Maru and 2014(I think?) SoO. Everyone else in the history of code is is inconsistent when looking at a year of GSL. This is because Code S is just that hard. No one makes deep runs every time. Maru lost to Patience and Innovation. Serral could lose to those players. With the current state of balance and his form probably not but at the time Maru did? Absolutely. Protoss was doing very well at that point in PvZ and that wasn't all that long after Inno beat Serral twice.
In Code S absolutely, it’s pretty damn cutthroat at that level if you have any kind of off day.
It was an ultimately meaningless result really, but when’s the last time Serral lost to a Meomaika?
This isn’t an anti-Maru point, more a plus point as to Serral’s consistency which is pretty insane. Serral can lose but it’s rare that he loses to such players, it’s to a Stats playing great, Reynor playing a great mirror etc.
Serral also lost a map to Zhugeliang at ASUS ROG in a group that had Innovation and Lambo, much higher stakes, yet no one brings it up. Ever.
I've heard it brought up many times by several casters as a joke for a few weeks after the incident. Zhu is a 6300 EU rated player, whereas Meomaika's so off-the-radar that his MMR is unknown. Maru losing 0-2 to Meomaika is a much, much bigger deal. Maru has also failed to make it out of group stage in more than one occasion (IEM XIII, where he couldn't even beat Neeb to get out of group stage). Maru is top3 world, but just isn't a Serral, and it's okay. Just get over it already.
Terrans results were horrendous this tournament so that should be taken into account.
I can't count on two hands the number of super lame excuses fanboys have given Maru in this thread alone. It's endless.
On October 26 2019 09:07 StarcraftSquall wrote: So the reason I bring up the GSL Ro32 is to show how inconsistent Maru has been this year. Yes, on his best day he is a monster. But on his worst day he loses inexplicably. We have yet to see him win or even advance far in a marathon style tournament. About the only thing we can rely on him for, apparently, so far, is disappointing us when a match with Serral is on the line. To be sure, Serral is not invincible: but he’s not someone who gets “bopped” inexplicably. The players who beat him played their best games and it took all they had. This is an element missing in Maru’s play. Since he can’t do us a solid, all we have is conjecture and facts and quite honestly: Serral has a resume that just simply reads better. In the Circuit it Korea. I mean he just 6-0d the strongest group of death we’ve ever seen. What’s he got left to prove? Maybe one of these times Maru will actually show up to the party when he is invited.
And regardless of whose side you are on here there are two undeniable facts: everyone wants to see this match, and Maru is the only reason to date it has not happened.
PS: I am a Protoss but I just want good SC2. I have no dog in the TvZ argument.
Literally everyone who plays in GSL is inconsistent besides 2018 Maru and 2014(I think?) SoO. Everyone else in the history of code is is inconsistent when looking at a year of GSL. This is because Code S is just that hard. No one makes deep runs every time. Maru lost to Patience and Innovation. Serral could lose to those players. With the current state of balance and his form probably not but at the time Maru did? Absolutely. Protoss was doing very well at that point in PvZ and that wasn't all that long after Inno beat Serral twice.
In Code S absolutely, it’s pretty damn cutthroat at that level if you have any kind of off day.
It was an ultimately meaningless result really, but when’s the last time Serral lost to a Meomaika?
This isn’t an anti-Maru point, more a plus point as to Serral’s consistency which is pretty insane. Serral can lose but it’s rare that he loses to such players, it’s to a Stats playing great, Reynor playing a great mirror etc.
Serral also lost a map to Zhugeliang at ASUS ROG in a group that had Innovation and Lambo, much higher stakes, yet no one brings it up. Ever.
I've heard it brought up many times by several casters as a joke for a few weeks after the incident. Zhu is a 6300 EU rated player, whereas Meomaika's so off-the-radar that his MMR is unknown. Maru losing 0-2 to Meomaika is a much, much bigger deal. Maru has also failed to make it out of group stage in more than one occasion (IEM XIII, where he couldn't even beat Neeb to get out of group stage). Maru is top3 world, but just isn't a Serral, and it's okay. Just get over it already.
Terrans results were horrendous this tournament so that should be taken into account.
I can't count on two hands the number of super lame excuses fanboys have given Maru in this thread alone. It's endless.
Not sure why the thread went the way it did, The Meomaika loss was ultimately meaningless indeed, was more to illustrate that Maru while capable of hitting insane heights does drop the odd clanger; whereas Serral almost always beats the players he should be beating.
Maru adapted well to TIME’s well-prepared TvT in time for the rematch, and beat Stats down pretty hard so it does look like he’s bringing a strong Maru to this tournament which bodes well for the neutral.
If Maru and Serral meet at any point in the tournament, I think Maru will have a 52% chance of winning. (EDIT: I'm being generous to Maru here, as I think it's roughly 50/50) I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Serral's is disadvantaged by the fact that he lacks tippy-top players to practice against, which recently he's even admitted. His godlike performance would be even godlier if he trains with players like Stats, Inno, TY and Maru on a somewhat regular basis. Of course, that would also mean those players would improve their vZ significantly, and end up smashing Dark and Rogue, especially after the next balance patch.
EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2019/wcstrophybanner734.jpg)
