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On October 11 2019 05:37 royalroadweed wrote:
I dont think we should have a patch so soon to Blizzcon. Not opposed to less a zerg favored map pool though.
Agreed. It would be cool if the Blizzcon map pool was made up of maps from throughout the year's ladder seasons rather than just this season. That would solve the map problem without requiring a bunch of new maps, plus they already know the statistics of those old maps so they could pick the most evenly balanced of them all.
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Macro teleportation should be limited.
Just have a look at the mothership and BC.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 11 2019 05:37 royalroadweed wrote:
I dont think we should have a patch so soon to Blizzcon. Not opposed to less a zerg favored map pool though.
The Broodlord fix would be fine IMO. (range leash broken stuff, it seems Blizzard wasn't thinking about this when they assigned Thors to counter BLs)
On October 11 2019 08:09 RealityTheGreat wrote:
Macro teleportation should be limited.
Just have a look at the mothership and BC.
agreed
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Normally I wouldn't suggest any changes so close to Blizzcon but with how inevitable a ZvZ finals feel (Honestly with the right bracket an all zerg top 4 is possible with this meta) I will take any changes to prevent that.
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The main nydus should get destroyed once the exit is destroyed. You have to make it harder for progamers to use nydus'. At the moment players can just hotkey it once and spam nydus exits whenever the CD is up.. at their level of play that's just too easy to do.
By destroying the main nydus players would need to remake and re-hotkey it. High lvl games are hectic so this change would not only nerf nydus play, it would also increase the skill ceiling. It might sound like an easy thing to execute but it does make a difference. Well, at least we're making progress right? We went from having invincible spawning nydus' to where we are now. That's progress.. even tho it's at a snail's pace.
Sadly this has always been a huge issue with SC2 balancing. It takes them 1-2 years to make straightforward/obvious changes. As a progamer (general mindset of one) there's no worse feeling than seeing a game you understand on a different level being balanced based on community sentiment or ladder data (data is important to an extent but it's still not representative of the highest level of play). There's only so much knowledge you can have without having played the game at the highest level.
There's so much i can say about this topic but out of respect to the previous balance team (back in WoL) i choose not to. They really do care about putting out the best product, unfortunately that's not always enough.
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I think a hot fix needs to be launched between the group stage matches and the final bracket games.
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On October 11 2019 08:28 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 05:37 royalroadweed wrote:
I dont think we should have a patch so soon to Blizzcon. Not opposed to less a zerg favored map pool though. The Broodlord fix would be fine IMO. (range leash broken stuff, it seems Blizzard wasn't thinking about this when they assigned Thors to counter BLs) Show nested quote +On October 11 2019 08:09 RealityTheGreat wrote:
Macro teleportation should be limited.
Just have a look at the mothership and BC. agreed
agreeeed
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tbh, i prefer a zvz finals over a final like dark vs ty.
what people forget is, that the BEST players should be in the final and if be best players are atm dark and serral (wouldnt count rogue at the same skill level), then so be it a zvz final. and tbh, everytime i watch a high lvl zvz, its an absolutely great match to watch. especially if serral is one of the zergs. almost all serral vs reynor matches were great (the last one wasnt, where reynor got squashed 0-4). the last korean zvz between dark and rogue was just great. and if you remember that zvz between rogue and serral last year at blizzcon.. it was also an absolute great series to watch.
so i dont really get the hat about zvz.. its BY FAR the best mirror matchup to watch on high lvl. and again, just the way ty got crushed by dark.. which toss/terran should stand a chance against dark/serral atm? with innovation not even being at blizzcon this year.. only maru and stats come to my mind. and if classic makes it to blizzcon, one of these three will fall out in groupstage.
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On October 14 2019 02:05 dalaiisc2 wrote:
tbh, i prefer a zvz finals over a final like dark vs ty.
what people forget is, that the BEST players should be in the final and if be best players are atm dark and serral (wouldnt count rogue at the same skill level), then so be it a zvz final. and tbh, everytime i watch a high lvl zvz, its an absolutely great match to watch. especially if serral is one of the zergs. almost all serral vs reynor matches were great (the last one wasnt, where reynor got squashed 0-4). the last korean zvz between dark and rogue was just great. and if you remember that zvz between rogue and serral last year at blizzcon.. it was also an absolute great series to watch.
so i dont really get the hat about zvz.. its BY FAR the best mirror matchup to watch on high lvl. and again, just the way ty got crushed by dark.. which toss/terran should stand a chance against dark/serral atm? with innovation not even being at blizzcon this year.. only maru and stats come to my mind. and if classic makes it to blizzcon, one of these three will fall out in groupstage.
if they are so good and outperform than all the others, a nerf on Nydus will not a problem for them. Normally a balance adjustment before the biggest event of the year is terrible, but the current balance is totally broken, I don’t expect the game will be worse if the Nydus get nerfed.
Today’s CTC final is really painful to watch. No matter how good the terran play, unstopped nydus can save the Zerg back to game.
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On October 14 2019 02:05 dalaiisc2 wrote:so i dont really get the hat about zvz.. its BY FAR the best mirror matchup to watch on high lvl. and again, just the way ty got crushed by dark.. which toss/terran should stand a chance against dark/serral atm? with innovation not even being at blizzcon this year.. only maru and stats come to my mind. and if classic makes it to blizzcon, one of these three will fall out in groupstage.
Convenient how the best players end up being the same race. Terran and toss having no players likely to win championships right now must be because they all got lazy at the same time.
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Seems like a pretty ridiculous change lol
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United Kingdom20327 Posts
On October 14 2019 03:52 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2019 02:05 dalaiisc2 wrote:so i dont really get the hat about zvz.. its BY FAR the best mirror matchup to watch on high lvl. and again, just the way ty got crushed by dark.. which toss/terran should stand a chance against dark/serral atm? with innovation not even being at blizzcon this year.. only maru and stats come to my mind. and if classic makes it to blizzcon, one of these three will fall out in groupstage. Convenient how the best players end up being the same race. Terran and toss having no players likely to win championships right now must be because they all got lazy at the same time.
Funny how that happens right after they nerf a race which was statistically underperforming to begin with
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On October 11 2019 14:40 TT1 wrote:
The main nydus should get destroyed once the exit is destroyed. You have to make it harder for progamers to use nydus'. At the moment players can just hotkey it once and spam nydus exits whenever the CD is up.. at their level of play that's just too easy to do.
By destroying the main nydus players would need to remake and re-hotkey their nydus. High lvl games are hectic so this change would not only nerf nydus play, it would also increase the skill ceiling. It might sound like an easy thing to execute but it does make a difference. Well, at least we're making progress right? We went from having invincible spawning nydus' to where we are now. That's progress.. even tho it's at a snail's pace.
Sadly this has always been a huge issue with SC2 balancing. It takes them 1-2 years to make straightforward/obvious changes. As a progamer (general mindset of one) there's no worse feeling than seeing a game you understand on a different level being balanced based on community sentiment or ladder data (data is important to an extent but it's still not representative of the highest level of play). There's only so much knowledge you can have without having played the game at the highest level.
There's so much i can say about this topic but out of respect to the previous balance team (back in WoL) i choose not to. They really do care about putting out the best product, unfortunately that's not always enough.
You'd have to significantly lower the cost of nydus, I'm talking to something like 50/50.
Each nydus attempt would be 150/100 with that proposed change, even that is probably not enough, it'd really just never get used again, not because of the "APM", because if it's good zergs will just build multiple, but because of the cost.
A better solution really is postponing the nydus strength to later on, which os what blizz is doing.
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kind of a silly poll. why would terrans or protoss want to keep nydus strong? Only zergs would vote for that. also 1 yes option and 2 no options to split the votes is rigged. the global finals are a week away. why would u remove the metagame for zergs?
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On October 14 2019 07:57 CicadaSC wrote:
kind of a silly poll. why would terrans or protoss want to keep nydus strong? Only zergs would vote for that. also 1 yes option and 2 no options to split the votes is rigged. the global finals are a week away. why would u remove the metagame for zergs?
I'd bet $100 that even with a nydus nerf a Zerg would still win Blizzcon. You could remove Serral and nerf nydus and I'd still be confident in a Zerg victory.
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On October 14 2019 10:34 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2019 07:57 CicadaSC wrote:
kind of a silly poll. why would terrans or protoss want to keep nydus strong? Only zergs would vote for that. also 1 yes option and 2 no options to split the votes is rigged. the global finals are a week away. why would u remove the metagame for zergs? I'd bet $100 that even with a nydus nerf a Zerg would still win Blizzcon. You could remove Serral and nerf nydus and I'd still be confident in a Zerg victory.
Feels like balance is going back towards WOL days of people complaining nonstop about Zerg, BL / Infestor =p
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Thought poll threads were not allowed on tl
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Guys, it's too late! Besides, IMO, ZvZ is the best mirror match up right now. I hate PvP with the silly protoss shenanigans (unless it's SoS playing) and TvT is kind of meh.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 14 2019 17:11 Poaktree wrote:
Guys, it's too late! Besides, IMO, ZvZ is the best mirror match up right now. I hate PvP with the silly protoss shenanigans (unless it's SoS playing) and TvT is kind of meh.
Yeah, it's like there's only mirrors to be played... don't get the response... it's to balance ZvX where X isn't Z...
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On October 14 2019 12:45 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2019 10:34 JJH777 wrote:On October 14 2019 07:57 CicadaSC wrote:
kind of a silly poll. why would terrans or protoss want to keep nydus strong? Only zergs would vote for that. also 1 yes option and 2 no options to split the votes is rigged. the global finals are a week away. why would u remove the metagame for zergs? I'd bet $100 that even with a nydus nerf a Zerg would still win Blizzcon. You could remove Serral and nerf nydus and I'd still be confident in a Zerg victory. Feels like balance is going back towards WOL days of people complaining nonstop about Zerg, BL / Infestor =p
And for good reason...
Did you watch the first WCS? It was a huge blow to SC2 because it ended up being an almost unwatchable broodlord/infestor vs immortal/sentry all-in fest. The top 3 being devided by Korean pvps did not help the slightest either.
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EPT
